Looking back at the Confederacy with modern eyes

Fort Worth Star-Telegram ^ | January 22, 2007 | JERRY PATTERSON (Texas Land Commisioner)

[Terabitten]

Then how can a federal government power-grab be the reason for the Southern rebellion?

Because then, as now, politicians act differently in DC than they do at home. Politicians tend to become more in favor of big government in DC, regardless of where they're from. It's no different now.

[albee]

bump

[Ditto]

Union states are commonly referred to as Northern. Simple.

Not in the 1860s they weren't. Calling them Northern today is just another game you neo-confederates play to deceive the historically ignorant and I have seen that game played hundreds of times on these threads.

[Ditto]

Try asking it this way: If the Union was fighting to free slaves, were there any Union Slave states?

That is your straw man, not mine. No knowledgeable person would ever say that the Union went to war in 1861 to free the slaves any more than one would say we went into WWII to save the Jews.

[Van Jenerette]

Sorry...on my way to my goverment class...hope to get back to you soon.

best - Van

[Non-Sequitur]

I look forward to it.

[Tokra]

The firing on Fort Sumptner was contrived so as to start a war and bring the southern states back into the Union.

And I suppose the attack on Pearl Harbor was "contrived" to start WWII?

And the attack on 9/11 was "contrived" to start the War on Terror?

[RobRoy]

You are right. My bad...

[smug]

First of all, you said "States"

No I did not, go back and check. Further more if you look at a map of the mason Dixon line Delaware is on the "Northern" side. If you want to get technical the size of the state does not matter it is still a state. Missouri could be said to be a northern state, that is what the fight was about over the 36'30' parallel. If the Confederacy was not about slavery, were there any Confederate "Free States"? Can you name one?

I have never said there was. Now let me ask you a question, since the obliteration of the 10th Amendment are their now "any" free states, what so ever?

[Vietnam Vet From New Mexico]

Slave owners, particularly large slave owners, would oppose it as long as slavery was more profitable. Advances in technology would have changed that. It already made slavery uneconomical in the North, and it soon would have in the South.

The North held, or would soon hold solid majorities in Congress so they could have overridden objections from the South. I believe at one time Lincoln was thinking of issuing bonds to compensate loyal slave owners, which would have spread the cost out over decades.

You are absolutely right, everyone thought the war would be over in a matter of months.

[Non-Sequitur]

Slave owners, particularly large slave owners, would oppose it as long as slavery was more profitable. Advances in technology would have changed that. It already made slavery uneconomical in the North, and it soon would have in the South.

Doubtful. Cotton farming was labor intensive and harvesting it properly was difficult to mechanize. The first commercially successful mechanical cotton harvester wasn't introduced until the 1930's. And a large percentage of the slaves were domestic help. What mechanization would replace the cooks, maids, butlers, grooms, gardeners, and so forth?

The North held, or would soon hold solid majorities in Congress so they could have overridden objections from the South. I believe at one time Lincoln was thinking of issuing bonds to compensate loyal slave owners, which would have spread the cost out over decades.

The problem with a compensated emancipation system is that the slave owners would have to agree to be compensated. There was no interest on the part of Southern slave owners in ending the institution, through compensated means or otherwise.

[smug]

What mechanization would replace the cooks, maids, butlers, grooms, gardeners, and so forth?

A paycheck. These jobs here are why I don't understand your belief that slavery was a benefit to all white southernor's. Slavery deprived poor whites of these menial jobs, along with bricklayer,carpenter and other jobs that slaves did. This is why I have no belief that the average soldier fought to perpetuate slavery. Your one car in the family aiding all in the family doesn't apply here. Sorry, I know I have drifted off the subject and on to one from threads gone by.

[smug]

The problem with a compensated emancipation system is that the slave owners would have to agree to be compensated.

For this reason and financing is why the idea was to be implemented over 40 or 50 years. Some would have agreed right away, over time like most things most would have gotten on board. This would have solved other problems that Reconstruction caused. My Grandfather who was born in 1888, and kindled my interest in the WBTS claimed that Reconstruction was far more devastating to the south than the war was.

[Non-Sequitur]

For this reason and financing is why the idea was to be implemented over 40 or 50 years. Some would have agreed right away, over time like most things most would have gotten on board.

In any case you would have had the Federal Government telling the South what to do with their slaves. In other words the North telling the South what to do. Absent a Constitutional amendment, impossible to get ratified, it would have had to have been done through legislation. So how long do you think it would have taken for the South to sit back and accept such a violation of state's rights without rebelling?

This would have solved other problems that Reconstruction caused. My Grandfather who was born in 1888, and kindled my interest in the WBTS claimed that Reconstruction was far more devastating to the south than the war was.

Like what? Accepting the freed blacks as citizens with the same rights as whites? Allowing blacks to vote? Heck, you didn't see that for free blacks down South before the rebellion, what makes you think it would have happened regardless of the means of emancipation?

[Non-Sequitur]

A paycheck. These jobs here are why I don't understand your belief that slavery was a benefit to all white southernor's. Slavery deprived poor whites of these menial jobs, along with bricklayer,carpenter and other jobs that slaves did.

I'm not aware that there was such a hue and cry from poor southern whites to do the work that slaves were doing before slavery ended. Can you point me to somewhere that details the plight of the poor white cottonpicker in 1850? Or the southern maiden who yearned for a job as a plantation cook but was kept out because of discrimination? Work done by blacks in the south carried a stigma for decades afterwards. Whites weren't interested in competing with blacks for jobs as maids or cooks or field hands and we all know it.

[Colonel Kangaroo]

Because then, as now, politicians act differently in DC than they do at home. Politicians tend to become more in favor of big government in DC, regardless of where they're from. It's no different now.

To me that point touches on one prevalent misconception held by fans of the Confederacy. There was a federal government in Richmond too. And given the fact that it had to support a society based on suppressing a large segment of the residents, I believe it would have developed into something much more oppressive than anything we've ever seen out of Washington DC.

[Vietnam Vet From New Mexico]

Have you never heard of sharecroppers? Do you think they were all black?

Sounds like instead of mechanization, you want Mexicanation, doing the jobs poor whites won't do.

[smug]

Like what?

He was talking about the lawlessness, large hordes of newly freed blacks and homeless whites that roamed the countryside stealing and murdering with occupation troops turning a blind eye. Property being taken for failure to pay taxes set purposely above anyones ability to pay. Of course he learned all this from his father who was undoubtedly a bitter man that never asked for a pardon. I would like to learn more about Reconstruction. If you can suggest any books that accurately and neutrally account it I'd appreciate it.

[Non-Sequitur]

There are a number of books out there but I confess I haven't read any that specifically deal with the subject so I can't recommend a particular one.

[expatguy]

bttt