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Revealed: how eBay sellers fix auctions
Times Online UK ^ | Jan.28, 2007

Posted on 01/28/2007 6:38:39 AM PST by COUNTrecount

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To: RichardW

Well said!


121 posted on 01/28/2007 10:26:57 AM PST by hdstmf
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To: ExpatGator

Thanks! You are the type seller I choose to deal with.


122 posted on 01/28/2007 10:32:27 AM PST by hdstmf
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To: VeniVidiVici
Here's the rule with that question. I was willing to pay $745 from a reputable seller. The shill bidding so tainted that sale that the the risk factor on that sale went way up. Meaning the seller was far more likely to be selling bad goods than normal. That risk was not factored into my original maximum bid offer.

There's two other rules that would apply as well.

One, that you never reward fraud.

Two, that when your agent goes bad and takes the other side of the deal, the deal is over.

123 posted on 01/28/2007 10:32:32 AM PST by bvw
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To: hdstmf

There was one seller that had a camcorder that I was interested in and he was in the midwest somewhere and wanted $75 to ship in the US. I am in the midlands of SC but it didn't make a difference. I figured it was insurance included and asked to confirm. I got a resounding no on that. I wrote it off and never bid.

A couple of months later, one of the big box stores had it on sale up the street.

From time to time, I deal in unusual items and some of them tend to be heavy or odd sized/shaped.

I will take such things down to my local UPS store for an actual weigh in and also sometimes get other useful tips. I also offer to send a copy of any shipping reciept to any buyer. That policy helped out a few times when selling some guitars and accessories.

For the most part, I have found people are reasonable when shown that my numbers are based in reality. If a winner has a better idea, I will gladly listen. Sometimes that works out too.

There have been times that I have been off on shipping and it did cost more but I stand by what I say and have had to eat a loss once in a while.

I have even sold a few cars (mine and others) and those worked out really well.



124 posted on 01/28/2007 10:45:51 AM PST by wally_bert
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To: bvw

I'm sorry, I don't agree with your post.

Never put in at a maximum more than you are willing to pay.

This is an auction, not a store.

eBay is not acting as your agent. You are using your own buying account. An auction agent is a different animal. eBay is just a marketing platform.

I'm in no means condoning the actions of the sellers. I'm stressing though, you are dealing with a street vendor environment.


125 posted on 01/28/2007 11:07:40 AM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: 2ndClassCitizen

Can you freepmail me her username?

I am always after odd shaped tupperware.


126 posted on 01/28/2007 11:12:07 AM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Nomorjer Kinov

Sniper here too. I have an account with one of the sniping services. I set the max bid I'm willing to pay and forget about until I'm notified I either won or lost the auction.


127 posted on 01/28/2007 11:19:32 AM PST by Rb ver. 2.0 (A Muslim soldier can never be loyal to a non-Muslim commander.)
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To: bvw
The more the item sells for the more Ebay makes on the final value fee. Thats why Ebay does not really pursue shill bidding. It's more money for them!
128 posted on 01/28/2007 11:31:32 AM PST by 4yearlurker ("Nothing is true,and everything is permitted"--7 th Satanic vow. Sounds like Liberalism!)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

That's not always true. I sometimes have many copies of the same item and I will use this option then.


129 posted on 01/28/2007 11:59:31 AM PST by packrat35 (Beware the Big Government Republicans!)
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To: tutstar

read later


130 posted on 01/28/2007 12:01:02 PM PST by tutstar (Baptist Ping list - freepmail me to get on or off.)
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To: Calpernia
When hire an agent at any other auction to place my bids up to a maximum I expect him to act like a prudent man on my behalf. That is the law of agency.

When eBay places bids on my behalf they are acting as my bidding agent, in my opinion.

Once the shill bidder made his fraudulent bid, my agent -- acting prudently, would not bid again on that item. The sale and the pool of bidders and sellers in it are now tainted by fraud. In this particular case, my maximum bid is now public. In such circumstance a reasonable buying agent would not rebid at all on the item. Yet Ebay does, that is imprudent and is not only a practice that allows fraud -- it is a practise that REWARDS fraud.

131 posted on 01/28/2007 12:01:10 PM PST by bvw
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To: Bigh4u2

Just a guess but they may be refering to auctions in the UK. I know some countries won't let you view the buyer's history.


132 posted on 01/28/2007 12:04:42 PM PST by packrat35 (Beware the Big Government Republicans!)
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To: Calpernia
On this I have to give you a bit of an ear-pulling, young lady.

Do NOT miss that that in this auction the was a clear pattern that drew the strongest of suspicion of fraud upon the seller himself. No one -- you included -- should buy from frauds!

Especially not on Ebay, where the item being bought is not present to be examined.

133 posted on 01/28/2007 12:09:16 PM PST by bvw
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To: packrat35

From purchases over the last two weeks I can say that Ebay US started last week only showing the bidder by number.


134 posted on 01/28/2007 12:11:20 PM PST by bvw
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To: KeepUSfree
Anybody who doesn't "snipe" - wait until the last second - on Ebay is a fool.

And for that reason, so is anyone who lists an item at less than they're willing to sell for. But listing at realistic prices just runs up the EBay fees because no one bids. EBay is not a place for the naive.

135 posted on 01/28/2007 12:21:57 PM PST by Bernard Marx
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To: packrat35
As I post this bidding is on-going:  NOT UK


Only actual bids (not automatic bids generated up to a bidder's maximum) are shown. Automatic bids may be placed days or hours before a listing ends. Learn more about bidding.

Bidder Bid Amount Date of bid Bidding Details

Bidder 4 Feedback score is 10 to 49 US $255.04 Jan-28-07 06:54:40 PST View

Bidder 3 Feedback score is 10 to 49 US $250.04 Jan-27-07 15:55:11 PST View

Bidder 4 Feedback score is 10 to 49 US $240.00 Jan-28-07 06:47:17 PST View

Bidder 4 Feedback score is 10 to 49 US $235.00 Jan-28-07 06:46:09 PST View

Bidder 1 Feedback score is 100 to 499 US $230.00 Jan-25-07 22:14:14 PST View

Bidder 2 Feedback score is 100 to 499 US $220.00 Jan-26-07 20:05:14 PST View

If you and another bidder placed the same bid amount, the earlier bid takes priority.

136 posted on 01/28/2007 12:22:07 PM PST by Buddy B (MSgt Retired-USAF)
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To: packrat35

Feedback Score: 47
Positive Feedback: 100%

Members who left a positive: 47
Members who left a negative: 0

All positive feedback received: 50

When I bid $5 and the bids go to $20 and than I get a second chance, I think it is shill bidding!
I only had one problem with buying a DVD on EBAY.
It would only play the first half of the movie before it bombed.
I contacted the seller and they shipped me a new one.
I asked what to do with the bad one.
They said "I believe you that it is bad, just toss it.
The new one worked fine and I left positive feedback.


137 posted on 01/28/2007 12:25:15 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran ("Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto")
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To: COUNTrecount

Shill bidding is just as fair as sniping...IMHO.


138 posted on 01/28/2007 12:26:52 PM PST by rottndog (While reading this tag, remember Tens of Thousands of Americans are risking their lives for you.)
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To: Bernard Marx
I'm aware of three kinds of shill bidding. Maybe there's more.

  1. The simple shill to protect the value of the item without paying the reserve fee. This is not ethical, but it's a petty theft in my book. It is also a fraud -- because the list at a price implies that you are willing to sell at that price. It is dishonest. It is against Ebay policy.

  2. The suppress alternate sellers shill. This is where a few sellers seeking to lock the market drive alternate sellers out of the market by placing too-high bids on the items being sold by competition. Those bids take the product off the market for most or all of the duration of the auction. Sometimes the bids are withdrawn just prior to auction, sometimes they go through but are non-payers. A seller engaging in this fraud needs a good number of alternate accounts.

  3. The two-shill discover-and-lock max bid shill that I described above.

139 posted on 01/28/2007 12:47:46 PM PST by bvw
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To: bvw
This is where you are incorrect. eBay is not you auction agent. You are your own agent. eBay is not a licensed auctioneer

eBay doesn't broker or bid for you. You are doing that.

140 posted on 01/28/2007 12:48:49 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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