(Catholic) Church: we'll make gay rights martyrs

Scotsman ^ | January 28, 2007 | EDDIE BARNES AND BRIAN BRADY

[NYer]

THE Catholic Church is to go to war over new legislation on rights for homosexuals, vowing to create "gay rights martyrs" if the laws are passed.

In a change of tactics, Church officials now say they will not close down adoption agencies as a result of new laws forcing them to deal with applications from gay couples.

Instead, they will deliberately break the law in order to bring a case to court. The Church believes it could then challenge a guilty verdict through Article 9 of the Human Rights Act, which upholds the freedom of religious expression.

The challenge considerably increases the temperature in a row that last week left the Cabinet divided and prompted warnings from Church leaders that the issue would prompt them to campaign against Labour in May's Scottish elections. Scotland has two Catholic adoption agencies, which place about 200 children and offer aftercare to 2,000 more.

Previously, Church leaders have said that the agencies would be forced to close, however, a spokesman for the Church told Scotland on Sunday: "We will not shut down the agencies. We will carry on working until someone takes us to court for breaking the law." He added: "There would then be a case where one of our agencies would be found guilty of breaking the law and would be put out of business."

He went on: "We believe there is an opportunity for a judicial review on the grounds that compelling people to act against their religious beliefs contravenes Article 9 of the ECHR."

The plan follows a similar challenge brought against the government in Northern Ireland, where the act has already been introduced. Brought by the Christian Institute, the bid will go ahead in March, in an attempt to topple the regulations in the Province.

The Church is now also warning of other examples where its members may find themselves breaking the new legislation. Once passed, the Equality Act, will ban any discrimination in the provision of services on grounds of sexuality.

The spokesman added: "We will see priests prosecuted for saying they are not renting the hall for a same-sex celebration." He went on: "What about the Christian bookshop which refuses to stock gay literature? They will all be breaking the law."

MSPs took the step of allowing gay adoption barely a month ago, when they passed the Adoption Act. That legislation contained a compromise for church leaders allowing Catholic adoption agencies to pass gay couples on to other agencies, rather than being compelled to take them on. Ministers in London are now updating the Sexual Orientation (Provision of Goods and Services) Regulations, which would apply throughout the UK, and are desperately trying to broker their own compromise with the Church.

One option being examined is a regulation in the bill that would mirror the deal made with clerics in Scotland.

Westminster officials last night insisted that Prime Minister Tony Blair and communities minister Ruth Kelly - the two Cabinet supporters of a Catholic 'exemption' - had not fully capitulated over the gay-adoption issue and were maintaining efforts to seek a "workable compromise". Home Secretary John Reid floated the possibility of following Scotland's lead in pacifying the Catholic Church and the gay community - although he insisted the thrust of the equal-opportunities legislation should not be diverted.

"If there's a transitional period - or in Scotland they've suggested other ways of handling this - then by all means do it," Reid said. "But it mustn't overrule the fundamental principle."

A spokesman for Kelly's department said she was investigating all possible alternatives, including the "Scottish solution". He added: "There is a will to produce the most acceptable regulations possible."

[NYer]

Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list

[NYer]

Ping!

[pissant]

The conservatives seem to be getting the upper hand in many of the diocese these days. And it is welcome.

[ArrogantBustard]

Previously, Church leaders have said that the agencies would be forced to close, however, a spokesman for the Church told Scotland on Sunday: "We will not shut down the agencies. We will carry on working until someone takes us to court for breaking the law." He added: "There would then be a case where one of our agencies would be found guilty of breaking the law and would be put out of business."

The headline stinks. These guys have guts. They're refusing to render unto Caesar what is God's. Saint Thomas More, Pray for us.

[Gorzaloon]

I am not RC, but I have to say that there appears to be ONE major church remaining that was founded on a Rock, anyway.

Years ago I used to think their inelasticity was a bad thing, but we have seen so much PC secularization in so many others that it is time to rethink that.

[trisham]

Wow. I'm impressed. Amazed, really.

[ArrogantBustard]

it is time to rethink that.

Thanks. Some of us consider our Church's "inelasticity" an unalloyed blessing.

[Aquinasfan]

Previously, Church leaders have said that the agencies would be forced to close, however, a spokesman for the Church told Scotland on Sunday: "We will not shut down the agencies. We will carry on working until someone takes us to court for breaking the law."

Proud-to-be-a-Catholic bump.

God save the children.

[SuziQ]

It's good to see someone fighting this encroachment!

[Aquinasfan]

They're refusing to render unto Caesar what is God's.

Exactly. A fine but important point.

[Salvation]

Thanks for your post.

[Salvation]

**Instead, they will deliberately break the law in order to bring a case to court. The Church believes it could then challenge a guilty verdict through Article 9 of the Human Rights Act, which upholds the freedom of religious expression. **

BTTT!

Holy Spirit, be with us!

[expatguy]

WOOHOO!

An American Expat in Southeast Asia

[incredulous joe]

Possibly too apropos, too ironic,...?

St. Charles Lwanga and companions; pray for us.

[Gorzaloon]

I wasn't mentioning any NAMES of course...Hahaha.

Like Mine. :-(

[MSSC6644]

Beautiful! and Lovely!

[Forgiven_Sinner]

Go my Catholic brethren! Uphold the Word of God!

[doc30]

Instead, they will deliberately break the law in order to bring a case to court. The Church believes it could then challenge a guilty verdict through Article 9 of the Human Rights Act, which upholds the freedom of religious expression.

In Canada, a similar approach has been taken with respect to religious objections and sexual orientation. The Supreme Court there rules that the right to be free from discrimination (i.e. gay rights) takes precidence over religious freedom.

[brooklyn dave]

I know this article is from the "Scotsman" and so is reflecting what is happening in the UK, but I am wondering if there is some way the birth mother can play a more active role until the child is actually given up for adoption? Can she have a say in what kind of folks she'd like her kid to be brought up by? In the US, Catholic adoption agencies were as secretive as a clandestine group conducting strange rights in some hidey hole. It was all hush hush and shame shame. Thank God today most of these taboos are broken. There has to be a way to skirt around.

[Frank Sheed]

I watched "Becket" again yesterday and it is magnificent as always. Then I read this post and realized the same war is going on 400 years later: the civil authorities vs. the Church in a neverending saga.

F

[A. Pole]

Good!

[A. Pole]

These guys have guts. They're refusing to render unto Caesar what is God's.

Amen!

[ArrogantBustard]

Next on your list should be "A Man for All Seasons" ...

In any case, St. Thomas Becket, ora pro nobis.
Holy Martyrs of England and Wales, ora pro nobis.

[HamiltonJay]

GOOD!! Church should not cave to these heathens.

[Leftism is Mentally Deranged]

It's war. marxists against the people who value the moral and ethical tradition that was handed down to them through the intermediary of their religion.

[Suzy Quzy]

Good comment.

[Talking_Mouse]

While I welcome the news that my Church is standing up for God's law over man's law, I am troubled by the article's refusal to use any names. The "spokesman for the Church" normally has both a name and a title. This is so the people know that said spokesman really speaks for the Church, not just his group or organization.

[rochester_veteran]

Years ago I used to think their inelasticity was a bad thing, but we have seen so much PC secularization in so many others that it is time to rethink that.

I was born and raised RC and I felt the same way you did... it's a good thing that I finally listened to Him, the Lord Jesus Christ, calling me back home!

[Unam Sanctam]

I wish the bishops here in Massachusetts would do this. Keep running an adoption agency on Catholic principles and then fight it out in court on First Amendment grounds.

[NYer]

The "spokesman for the Church" normally has both a name and a title.

Catholic leader Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, seen here in December 2006, wrote to Prime Minister Tony Blair and the cabinet Tuesday (Jan. 23), warning that the Catholic Church of England and Wales would have to close its adoption agencies if legislation forced them to act against their teachings and consider placing children with gay couples.(AFP/File/Musa al-Shaer)

Apparently, he wasn't satisfied with their response.

[Cicero]

For some reason, homosexuality is THE bottom line issue for Tony Blair.

There has been some talk that Blair might become a Catholic after he leaves office. There really are some basic contradictions in Blair that I have trouble figuring out.

Oscar Wilde was a homosexual who became a Catholic before he died, but I've never heard that he thought the Church should accommodate his earlier sexual practices the way these modern "gay rights" activists do. He knew he was a sinner, always felt drawn toward the Church, and finally seems to have found the grace to convert.

Not for me to judge, but Blair is an odd duck.

[BlackElk]

Ummmm, Becket was tangling with Henry II not Henry VIII. Wasn't that an awful lot longer ago than 400 years? It is the same war, though.

God bless you and yours, as ever.

[Aquinasfan]

Catholic leader Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, seen here in December 2006, wrote to Prime Minister Tony Blair and the cabinet Tuesday (Jan. 23), warning that the Catholic Church of England and Wales would have to close its adoption agencies if legislation forced them to act against their teachings and consider placing children with gay couples.

Good priest.

[silverleaf]

My thought is that a birth mother should be able to rest assured her child will not be adopted by homosexuals if she does not want her child to be raised that way. I think this is a good move by the church - and may it prevail in being able to offer adoption service to birth mothers who want their kids to be adopted and raised by married couples.

[silverleaf]

that's why I left methodist church and am becoming RC - Christianity's first...and maybe last stand!

[Frank Sheed]

I watch that movie yearly, AB. He is a personal favorite saint of mine and I say a novena to St. Thomas More nightly.

"I am the King's good servant but God's first."

If one reads the Magnificat as I do, it is stunning to realize how many martyrs England gave to God. Many were priests who died shortly after ordination at Rheims--some, just only days after returning.

Ora pro nobis peccatoribus.

[Frank Sheed]

http://www.britannia.com/history/monarchs/mon26.html

Henry II
1154-1189

so the "war" began 950 years ago, BE.

His story depicted in the "Lion in Winter" is excellent too, if only for the uniformly superb performances of O'Toole and Hepburne.

I have to chuckle sadly at the slanted "footnote" given to St. Thomas a Becket in this British account. Noblesse oblige and all that. Thomas feasts in heaven; Henry, who knows?

[Dumb_Ox]

Like sodomy, oppressing orphans is numbered among the sins that cry to heaven for vengeance.

By interfering with the Christian imperative to care for orphans, homosexual activists are making sure that orphans are even more difficult to care for. I suppose it's not entirely accidental that such a situation only solidifies the welfare state, which will step in to solve the problem its regulations have created.

[California Patriot]

They are definitely on the right track here. This is a "law" that should be broken.

[presidio9]

Hooray!!!

[Caravaggio]

Looks like the Chuch is being simple as doves yet cunning as a snake. (Matt 10:16)

[NYer]

There has been some talk that Blair might become a Catholic after he leaves office. There really are some basic contradictions in Blair that I have trouble figuring out.

If he truly had the courage of his convictions, he would use this moment to make the switch & truly embrace the faith he now claims to embrace. Like so many others, he is playing politics. IMHO, he would be surprised to see the swell of support he would gain by standing firm in his convictions.

[Antoninus]

In a change of tactics, Church officials now say they will not close down adoption agencies as a result of new laws forcing them to deal with applications from gay couples. Instead, they will deliberately break the law in order to bring a case to court. The Church believes it could then challenge a guilty verdict through Article 9 of the Human Rights Act, which upholds the freedom of religious expression.

NOW YOU'RE TALKING!

American bishops, take note! Make them put you in jail for this stuff. When it comes down to it--they'll blink!

[Antoninus]

In a change of tactics, Church officials now say they will not close down adoption agencies as a result of new laws forcing them to deal with applications from gay couples. Instead, they will deliberately break the law in order to bring a case to court. The Church believes it could then challenge a guilty verdict through Article 9 of the Human Rights Act, which upholds the freedom of religious expression.

NOW YOU'RE TALKING!

American bishops, take note! Make them put you in jail for this stuff. When it comes down to it--they'll blink!

[Antoninus]

In Canada, a similar approach has been taken with respect to religious objections and sexual orientation. The Supreme Court there rules that the right to be free from discrimination (i.e. gay rights) takes precidence over religious freedom.

That will get turned on its head, in my opinion, when people actually start going to jail for religious reasons. This may be the issue that finally reveals the multi-cultis for the fascists that they are and brings down their house of cards. As long as we still have enough bishops, priests, and lay people with the courage to do it!

Holy Spirit, give them the strength!

[doc30]

That will get turned on its head, in my opinion, when people actually start going to jail for religious reasons.

Hard to say, really. There are a lot of anti-Christian types who would love to see Christians in jail for standing up to the sodomite lobby.

[Antoninus]

Hard to say, really. There are a lot of anti-Christian types who would love to see Christians in jail for standing up to the sodomite lobby.

Not as many as you might think---and those types will never be on our side anyway, absent an act of God.

[Rutles4Ever]

Britain is the petri dish of Catholic persecution in the West.