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The sun may have a dimmer switch
EurekAlert! News ^ | January 24, 2007 | Staff

Posted on 01/30/2007 5:41:49 AM PST by DaveLoneRanger

There's a dimmer switch inside the sun that causes its brightness to rise and fall on timescales of around 100,000 years – exactly the same period as between ice ages on Earth. So says a physicist who has created a computer model of our star's core.

Robert Ehrlich of George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia, modelled the effect of temperature fluctuations in the sun's interior. According to the standard view, the temperature of the sun's core is held constant by the opposing pressures of gravity and nuclear fusion. However, Ehrlich believed that slight variations should be possible.

He took as his starting point the work of Attila Grandpierre of the Konkoly Observatory of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences. In 2005, Grandpierre and a collaborator, Gábor Ágoston, calculated that magnetic fields in the sun's core could produce small instabilities in the solar plasma. These instabilities would induce localised oscillations in temperature.

Ehrlich's model shows that whilst most of these oscillations cancel each other out, some reinforce one another and become long-lived temperature variations. The favoured frequencies allow the sun's core temperature to oscillate around its average temperature of 13.6 million kelvin in cycles lasting either 100,000 or 41,000 years. Ehrlich says that random interactions within the sun's magnetic field could flip the fluctuations from one cycle length to the other.

These two timescales are instantly recognisable to anyone familiar with Earth's ice ages: for the past million years, ice ages have occurred roughly every 100,000 years. Before that, they occurred roughly every 41,000 years.

Most scientists believe that the ice ages are the result of subtle changes in Earth's orbit, known as the Milankovitch cycles. One such cycle describes the way Earth's orbit gradually changes shape from a circle to a slight ellipse and back again roughly every 100,000 years. The theory says this alters the amount of solar radiation that Earth receives, triggering the ice ages. However, a persistent problem with this theory has been its inability to explain why the ice ages changed frequency a million years ago.


TOPICS: Extended News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: catastrophism; climatechange; globalwarming; godsgravesglyphs; sun
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See also:

Phenomenological solar contribution to the 1900–2000 global surface warming

Sun more active than for a millennium

The Sun is More Active Now than Over the Last 8000 Years

Sun's warming influence 'under-estimated'

Blocking sunshine with aerosol may help avoid global warming

Brighter sun adds to fears of climate change

Scientists blame sun for global warming

Sun's direct role in global warming may be underestimated, Duke physicists report

Sun's Output Increasing in Possible Trend Fueling Global Warming
1 posted on 01/30/2007 5:41:50 AM PST by DaveLoneRanger
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To: texianyankee; JayB; ElkGroveDan; markman46; palmer; Bahbah; Paradox; FOG724; Mike Darancette; ...
(((GLOBAL WARMING PING)))



You have been pinged because of your interest in environmentalism, alarmist wackos, mainstream media doomsday hype, and other issues pertaining to global warming.
Freep-mail me to get on or off: Add me / Remove me
Please ping me to all note-worthy threads on global warming.

2 posted on 01/30/2007 5:42:11 AM PST by DaveLoneRanger (Wellllllll! Guess it's not about the economy anymore, is it? Stupid?)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Wait a minute.

That is science used to debunk a liberal idea.



I'm just so confused.......


3 posted on 01/30/2007 5:44:54 AM PST by HOTTIEBOY (Campers laugh at clowns behind closed doors.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Wonder if the sun could have anything to do with our current climate changes. Strike that comment, I do not wish to be branded a global warming-denier by the ministry of misinformation.


4 posted on 01/30/2007 5:46:52 AM PST by Always Right
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Grandpierre?......(snicker snicker)........


5 posted on 01/30/2007 5:48:16 AM PST by Red Badger (Rachel Carson is responsible for more deaths than Adolf Hitler...............)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

I am not looking forward to the day when those of us who deny anthropogenic global warning will have to walk around with yellow suns pinned to our clothes.


6 posted on 01/30/2007 5:49:12 AM PST by SlowBoat407 (A living insult to islam since 1959)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
Oh no....Al Gore is much more edumacated than this guy and knows all about the Sun and stars and Global Warming...
7 posted on 01/30/2007 6:02:21 AM PST by Dallas59 (HAPPY NEW YEAR 2007!)
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To: SlowBoat407

I see a global warming Inquisition where we unfaithful will have to swear under pain of torture that we acknowledge belief in the holy religion of global warming.


8 posted on 01/30/2007 6:05:21 AM PST by sportutegrl (This thread is useless without pix.)
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To: Dallas59

...and the internet


9 posted on 01/30/2007 6:06:41 AM PST by Thom Pain (8/14/2006 Israel made a HUGH mistake! On Nov 7th we did worse!)
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To: SlowBoat407

Clothes, what clothes? We'll be stripped of them, just like global warmingists want to strip meteorologists of their titles if they don't buy global warming. Okay, so I'm exaggerating just a leetle...


10 posted on 01/30/2007 6:08:52 AM PST by DaveLoneRanger (Wellllllll! Guess it's not about the economy anymore, is it? Stupid?)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

I read a NASA report on here this week that global warming is taking place on Mars at the same time it does here on earth. So its a Solar system warming caused by the Sun. Boy this will surely dissapoint the folks wanting to blame us horrible people!


11 posted on 01/30/2007 6:12:04 AM PST by lexington minuteman 1775
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To: sportutegrl
I see a global warming Inquisition where we unfaithful will have to swear under pain of torture that we acknowledge belief in the holy religion of global warming.

No, no, no. Global Warming is NOT a religion, it is simply one cannon of the religion known as secular humanism. In secular humanism, everything bad that happens is Man's fault (I mean Bush's fault), and everything good that happens is thanks to nature except that good things almost never happen, it's all bad and we're all going to die horribly unless we cede all power to the small cabal of high priests of secular humanism.

12 posted on 01/30/2007 6:15:16 AM PST by lafroste (gravity is not a force. See my profile to read my novel absolutely free (I know, beyond shameless))
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To: cogitator; RadioAstronomer
More (or less) solar cycles of more (or less) magnitude with more (or less) frequencies!

What's never been a real positive factor, or realistic factor if you will, about assuming earth's variations alone accounting for past ice ages, is the very slow nature of those periods: The earth's rotation (precession) changes very, very slowly over that long period.

Yet Ice Ages drop very rapidly, then gradually climb back to a peak, fluctuates at the peak temperature range for a few thousand years, then drops suddenly again - as the temperature-CO2 relationship over the past 6 cycles shows.

Now, we are near (almost overdue!) for another rapid drop: but the orbit/tilt angle hasn't changed dramatically. So what accounts for a sudden drop if the driving force is a slow sinusoid? Other cyclic "additions" of course do this - electric engineers use summed periodic voltages all the time to create step-change control voltages.

But what are the other cyclic inputs to (God's) equation?
13 posted on 01/30/2007 6:15:59 AM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Politicians and global-warming scientists have dimmer switches, too. Too bad all of their bulbs have burned out!


14 posted on 01/30/2007 6:16:33 AM PST by MortMan (Middle Age: When playing like a child makes you feel like an old man the next morning.)
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To: lexington minuteman 1775

The Mars Rover is responsible. Even though it is electric.


15 posted on 01/30/2007 6:20:21 AM PST by eyedigress
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To: MortMan
All Bush's Fault, he turned up the Sun's thermostat.
16 posted on 01/30/2007 6:29:37 AM PST by TYVets (God so loved the world he didn't send a committee)
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To: Always Right
I do not wish to be branded a global warming-denier by the ministry of misinformation.

Dr Heidi Flice of The Weather Channel is talking names and writing in her little black book..

17 posted on 01/30/2007 6:32:58 AM PST by TYVets (God so loved the world he didn't send a committee)
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To: MortMan
Politicians and global-warming scientists have dimmer switches, too

Politicians and global-warming "scientists" have dummy switches.......these switches are activated with the crainio-rectal inversion they all suffer from....

18 posted on 01/30/2007 6:34:28 AM PST by Thermalseeker (Just the facts, ma'am)
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To: TYVets

I say it's all Bushes fault, because Howard dean radiates excessive heat during all his "hate Bush" tirades.


19 posted on 01/30/2007 6:36:26 AM PST by ghostrider
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To: Thermalseeker
Politicians and global-warming "scientists" have dummy switches.......

That are always stuck on stupid.

20 posted on 01/30/2007 6:37:36 AM PST by dirtboy (Duncan Hunter 08 - rationalization not required, he IS a conservative already)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
"There's a dimmer switch inside the sun that causes its brightness to rise and fall on timescales of around 100,000 years"

So, who pushes this dimmer switch then?

"scientists", If it wasn't for them, the world would be humorless.

Defintions:
Scientist- a person who crafts unprovable theories in order to recieve money from government, simular to an "artist" (see Artist- a person who recieves money from the government to create worthless objects, which are then sold to the government)

21 posted on 01/30/2007 6:37:42 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
We've hit our "peak" high temperature in the 1930's, the warmest years were recorded during that decade for this past century, which ended with overall cooling not warming, and Artic (and south pole) ice caps, including gleenland glaciers with a net GAIN in size, not receding. There are dozens of "scientist's" studies which all come to the same conclusion. If evidence is taken over several millenium, the temp has cooled overall for the past 2000 years, with a mini ice age and mild warming cycles part of a regular cycle within this period.
22 posted on 01/30/2007 6:50:56 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: DaveLoneRanger

I wouldn't hang a hat on this one until there's a lot more experimentation and verification. The dangers of spurious correlation loom large.


23 posted on 01/30/2007 6:52:18 AM PST by cogitator
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To: DaveLoneRanger
What drive me nuts about this whole global warming thing is the terminology.

They say if you believe in Global Warming then we have to reduce our emissions, drive smaller cars etc.

I think that the planet is warming naturally, I think it did so in Roman times and in the Medieval warming period. I think it's a natural and normal event.

So I believe in a Natural Global Warming. I do not believe in Human-Induced Global Warming. It's high time that the differences were highlighted, the HIGW crowd are using the temps as evidence of our involvement, if you try to prove them wrong we have a problem getting our voice heard.

We've got to show that there is a difference between NGW and HIGW.

24 posted on 01/30/2007 6:53:59 AM PST by BRITinUSA
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To: Nathan Zachary
the warmest years were recorded during that decade for this past century,

I think that only one or two of the 1930s years are still in the top 10 warmest years.

25 posted on 01/30/2007 6:54:26 AM PST by cogitator
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To: lexington minuteman 1775
I read a NASA report on here this week that global warming is taking place on Mars at the same time it does here on earth.

And it's only due to changes on Mars, not the Sun.

Global warming on Mars?

26 posted on 01/30/2007 6:55:53 AM PST by cogitator
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To: DaveLoneRanger
However, Ehrlich believed that slight variations should be possible.

Should be possible? Of course. Everything fluctuates some.

27 posted on 01/30/2007 6:59:42 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
The high priests of environmentalism sure like to ignore the most obvious factor in the earth's climate -- the sun! The obvious reason for this is that the sun is out of the reach of our politicians and the sun does not know communism from capitalism or atheism from fundamentalism. We are finally understanding more about the dynamics of the 11-year sunspot cycle (the "conveyor belt" theory). Any intelligent person would think that the sun likely has other cycles waiting to be discovered.

This article is likely to offend both the enviro-fundamentalists and the young-earth creationsits, and that's a good thing.

28 posted on 01/30/2007 6:59:52 AM PST by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: sportutegrl
I see a global warming Inquisition...

"NOBODY EXPECTS THE GLOBAL WARMING INQUISITION!!!"

29 posted on 01/30/2007 7:04:10 AM PST by dfwgator (The University of Florida - Championship U)
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To: BRITinUSA

I agree. If the earth is warming, it's warming. You can't argue that. It's the cause and what to do about it. I say *natural* and *enjoy*.


30 posted on 01/30/2007 7:04:43 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
Attila Grandpierre

What a name ... Attila "Great Peter". One has to think he's got a movie-making business on the side....

31 posted on 01/30/2007 7:16:31 AM PST by r9etb
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To: TYVets

Heidi Cullen also has a "black book" and it is, of course, geared toward "screwing everybody".


32 posted on 01/30/2007 7:16:45 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Red Badger
Grandpierre?......(snicker snicker)........

ATILLA Grandpierre. Sounds like a guy who'd make movies with somebody like Stacy Staxx....

33 posted on 01/30/2007 7:18:49 AM PST by r9etb
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To: DaveLoneRanger

IOW, in layman's terms, global warming and bglobal cooling are cyclical.


34 posted on 01/30/2007 7:19:29 AM PST by TBP
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To: DaveLoneRanger

IOW, in layman's terms, global warming and global cooling are cyclical.


35 posted on 01/30/2007 7:19:41 AM PST by TBP
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To: BRITinUSA
BTW, right after the "Great Die Off" in the Americas (which occurred subsequent to European penetration in the 1500-1600 period), the Earth's temperature dropped precipitiously ~ just like it would preparatory to a major glaciation.

It has been hypothesized that this was a consequence of the loss of agricultural activity engaged in by the Indians, and that, by itself, was causing the Earth to cool.

36 posted on 01/30/2007 7:19:50 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: r9etb

Certainly not a Disney character........!....


37 posted on 01/30/2007 7:21:34 AM PST by Red Badger (Rachel Carson is responsible for more deaths than Adolf Hitler...............)
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To: Red Badger
A picture of Attilla Grandpierre:

Indeed, I think Stacy Staxx is not out of his reach....

38 posted on 01/30/2007 7:24:49 AM PST by r9etb
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To: TYVets
All Bush's Fault, he turned up the Sun's thermostat.

Actually the thermostat is located in a secret lab at Halliburton. Cheney put in the call to Halliburton to have the thermostat turned up. Bush had nothing to do with it. He's just a puppet. Cheney is really running the show.

I don't really need a sarcasm tag, do I?

39 posted on 01/30/2007 7:24:53 AM PST by VRWCmember (Everyone is entitled to my opinion.)
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To: HOTTIEBOY

Real science always debunks "liberal" beliefs.
Politicized/agendized "science" with the intent of securing grant money or furthering the cause of socialism supports "liberal" beliefs.


40 posted on 01/30/2007 7:27:11 AM PST by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: MrB
Real science always debunks "liberal" beliefs.

So you're saying that science always supports "conservative" beliefs, or some other kind of beliefs, instead?

Sorry, but that's far too simplistic. Liberals aren't always wrong, conservatives aren't always right, and science is not immune from politics, whims, fashions, and human short-sightedness.

Science at its best is like human morality at its best: it's interested in looking for the truth, and is unafraid to admit when it's mistaken.

But there's always that human element involved in science, and it's dangerous to ignore that.

41 posted on 01/30/2007 7:35:10 AM PST by r9etb
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To: DaveLoneRanger
A "dimmer switch"?

What a stupid article.

42 posted on 01/30/2007 7:38:09 AM PST by Psycho_Bunny
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To: r9etb
But there's always that human element involved in science, and it's dangerous to ignore that.

In the past, I have seen many posters treat science as if it were incapable of any bias. Every scientist has preconceived notions and biases. The good ones recognize this fact and attempt to eliminate them from their models.

43 posted on 01/30/2007 7:47:55 AM PST by CharacterCounts (-)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

44 posted on 01/30/2007 7:53:07 AM PST by Gritty (Al Gore and I were ridiculed, but we were right about global warming! - Bill Clinton)
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To: muawiyah
Heidi Cullen also has a "black book" and it is, of course, geared toward "screwing everybody.

Sorry about my typo.

Heidi Flise made money from her call girl business.

Dr Heidi Cullen makes money as a nation wide media whore, plus she is ugly.

45 posted on 01/30/2007 8:13:52 AM PST by TYVets (God so loved the world he didn't send a committee)
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To: BRITinUSA

You are right. The reality of the situation is that the Earth is indeed slowly warming - and that the change is natural, NOT anthropogenic. The earth's climate is on the uptick of a (broadly) sinusoidal oscillation that made Greenland green in the 11th Century and made the Thames freeze in the 17th. For the next 200 years or so it will get slightly warmer, and then it will slowly get colder again.

Greenhouse gases have very only a minor part to play in this: CO2 a still more minor part - and anthopogenic CO2 a truly infinitesmal part. Cycles in solar insolation (due to solar variability and the Milankovitch cycle) drive short- and medium- term climate change. The water-vapour greenhouse effect completely dwarfs any CO2 effect but is itself only a minor peturbation: insolation drives climate.

The "frame" in which it does this is determined by the truly long term movement of the continents: e.g. we always have Ice Ages when we have a landmass at a pole and we're in an interglacial period now. But insolation is what governs our climate on the human-historical timescale.

46 posted on 01/30/2007 8:24:51 AM PST by agere_contra
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To: HOTTIEBOY
Wait a minute. That is science used to debunk a liberal idea.

you're not really that naive are you? you can't debunk liberal junk science. anyone that already believes LJS isn't gonna be persuaded by any argument you can throw at them. ever.
47 posted on 01/30/2007 9:01:19 AM PST by absolootezer0 (stop repeat offenders - don't re-elect them!)
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To: absolootezer0
What I am saying is alot of conservatives think that all science is merely theories ~ that the bible is the only real true word.

But in this case, most conservatives will believe the science because the outcome of the theory supports their ideas.

The reason I am confused is:
Do we believe all science?
Or only believe the science that supports our ideas?
48 posted on 01/30/2007 9:40:15 AM PST by HOTTIEBOY (Campers laugh at clowns behind closed doors.)
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To: lexington minuteman 1775

Of course, there are other factors, but Saturn has been experiencing some upper-level atmospheric cooling too...


49 posted on 01/30/2007 9:50:22 AM PST by DaveLoneRanger (Wellllllll! Guess it's not about the economy anymore, is it? Stupid?)
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To: cogitator

Besides what seems like common intuition, those other (accumulating) links relate the sun's cycles to climate on earth. I'm sure it's not the only factor, but no one can deny the sun is the crucial element of global warming, and the question is what and how much.


50 posted on 01/30/2007 9:52:59 AM PST by DaveLoneRanger (Wellllllll! Guess it's not about the economy anymore, is it? Stupid?)
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