Skip to comments.Elderly Man Dies In Gunfire Exchange With Undercover Officers
Posted on 01/30/2007 1:12:56 PM PST by FreedomCalls
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- An elderly man is dead and two Jacksonville Sheriff's Office detectives are on administrative leave after an undercover narcotics investigation ended in gunfire late Saturday.
According to the JSO, detectives Donald Maynard and James Narcisse had been working undercover for about three hours in the 2300 block of Westmont Street when 80-year-old Isaac Singletary approached them with a gun just before 6 p.m.
The officers said they ordered the man to put down the gun. However, Singletary did not drop his weapon and gunshots were exchanged.
Singletary was shot several times. Paramedics rushed him to Shands-Jacksonville Medical Center, where he died.
Less than 24 hours after the fatal police shooting left his uncle dead, Gary Evans told Channel 4 he's mad.
"Eighty-years-old, and they had to shoot him twice or more in order to subdue him. I'm very upset about it," Evans said.
He said his uncle was territorial and mad about the drugs on his street, and would often take his gun and try to scare the drug dealers away.
On Saturday, things went terribly wrong.
"My uncle asked the officer, which he didn't know at the time he was a police officer, to leave his property and he didn't," Evans said.
Neighbors told Channel 4 that Singletary was very protective of his property.
"You don't expect somebody to come pointing a gun at you, and once they do that, the officers will tell them to drop the gun," JSO Chief Dwain Senterfitt said. "We're still investigating what statements were made, but obviously, at that point, the officers' lives were in danger."
Police said they are still trying to figure out if the undercover officers had time to tell Singletary they were undercover officers. They said the detectives had to hid behind a tree to avoid being shot by Singletary.
According to police, the officers had been in the neighborhood since about 2:45 p.m., and had made five drug-related arrests.
"In the course of our undercover activity and making several arrests in this neighborhood, a man we now know to be a resident of that area, Mr. Isaac Singletary, was shot by officers," said Director of Investigations and Homeland Security Micheal Edwards.
Saturday's shooting was the third JSO-involved shooting in three weeks. Unlike last week's case at the Sable Palm Apartments, there is no dispute whether Singletary had a gun.
"There was a confrontation between them and an exchange of gunfire," Edwards said.
However, the question of who fired the first shot remains unanswered.
"He shot at my uncle first. He was the first one to shoot, and my uncle returned fire," Evans said.
"As you know, our investigation into any shooting must be thorough and methodical. At this time, there's a limited amount of information we can share," Edwards said.
As the details of the shooting are being hashed out, scared neighbors and sad family members remember Singletary.
"I looked in his eyes I saw his pain. I felt the pain for him. He never bothered anybody. He's never done anything to anybody. He didn't want anybody in his yard," said neighbor Antionette Douglas.
Is there a legal opinion regarding this situation? (Legit Question)
Well at least he is truly free now. Prayers go out to his family.
The War on Citizens , errr, I mean Drugs, still marches on.
It is against the law to sell drugs, purchase drugs or possess drugs. The cops were doing their jobs in arresting people. Grandpa drew down on the wrong guys.
The story does not say if they were on his property or not. It does mention that the old man didn't like drugs on his street.
Most residents of drug infested neighborhoods want the cops out there arresting people and getting rid of the problem element. It's sad that he died.
Yup, so next time anyone thinks they might try this make sure to fire first ~ odds are very much against your target being a cop.
I recently saw one of those cop shows taking place in Florida.
The cop was saying the thing they feared most were armed citizens. The reason being the cops behave and looked like criminals. They don't recognize people's property, climbing on roofs, going through yards etc.
Whether the cops properly identified themselves is a big question. A related question, is would or should someone believe them, especially considering so many cop impersonators.
While more facts or coverup to is to come, my bet was this was a wrongful death.
Hey, if incidents like these prevent just one American adult from smoking a joint, it's worth it. We need paramilitary raids in our communities to keep us safe.
Oh, I don't know, odds are the perps are better armed than the cops.
You are throwing up a straw man argument. Most of the drug traffic takes place in poorer neighborhoods and the residents held hostage by dealers and gang bangers want them out there doing their best to bust dealers.
This has nothing to do with the JBT paras harassing citizens.
"It's sad that he died."
It is because he was one of the good guys, it seems. We've all seen in movies where undercover or plain-clothes cops sometimes get confronted by civilians trying to "help". Hate to see it in real life, though.
Oh goody. Another "I'm a 'libertarian' and thus don't need facts" thread.
Oh, now don't throw water on Hunter's parade, he was on a roll.
Make that "some" drugs.
Now Grandpa is yet another example of why the rationality of this whole pile of insanity needs to be re-examined.
I suspect that these undercover officers were selling the drugs and their targets were beig arrested down the street. The old guy probably called the police and after a time went out to confront them.
This is just my guess based on quotes from the story. Sad day. The old timer meant well and was probably a good force in the neighborhood.
Is there a legal opinion regarding this situation? (Legit Question)
Good question. I don't think that undercover officers are above the law. If they didn't have a warrant, would they be trespassers? If the elderly gentleman thought they were a threat, was he within his rights to use deadly force (point a gun at them) to make them leave? (Think Castle Doctrine in Fla.) If they were criminally trespassing, did they even have a right to self defense? (I thought that one generally didn't have a right to self defense if one was committing a crime and that crime lead to violence).
Finally, in the end, could these cops be looking at manslaughter charges? If they didn't have a right to self defense, that sure looks like a possibility.
I think that at the least, a humongous civil suit might be filed against the city.
Any legal eagles got any answers to these questions?
What do you think was for sale in that neighborhood? My bet is crack and smack.
And your point is.......what?
AND IF IT WAS YOUR GRANDPA? Would you be saying that to yourself? NO NO I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!
Here's a few ideas:
1. Arm EVERY law-abiding citizen in the neighborhood and let them patrol their blocks.
2. This will save the cops the trouble and save taxpayer's money.
3. Drug dealers will get the picture in about 7 minutes and move out.
I think everyone's forgotten that citizens can do anything better than government at a lower cost and in less time.
The original story (and thread) from yesterday said they were on his property.
""My uncle asked the officer, which he didn't know at the time he was a police officer, to leave his property and he didn't," Evans said."
So, at least his son says the undercovers were in the yard.
If, as the article stated, Mr. Singletary asked them to leave his property and they refused, then it is most definitely a wrongful death. Just because the cops are impersonating thugs doesn't mean they can ignore this man's property rights. So what if real thugs would not have left. They're cops, they should have left immediately.
After the situation calmed down, they could revisit Mr. Singletary and suggest in the strongest possible terms that he leave drug fighting to them.
However, from the info in the article, they are culpable and should be held accountable.
We don't have enough information here to know if the cops were on that guy's property though.
If they were, and he told them to leave, and then they just shot him, the big payoff to the family isn't going to be the end of the story.
How was gramps to know they were cops since they were undercover?
Whatever can I say.
Now, that name of yours? Did you know that elk/reindeer/etc (one species, different names) have something like 3 to 5 times as much iron compounds in their muscle tissue as cattle and similar animals? You need some genetic structure to help your body avoid "near toxic levels" of iron as a consequence.
This is a long term thing though. http://www.cmj.hr/2006/47/4/04_CMJ_47(4)_Ross_16909452.pdf covers the business quite thoroughly.
I was reading this last night when I recalled "there was this Freeper with an "elk name" something or other and he should check it out".
If the officers were on the man's property dressed and acting like dealers or buyers, how's he supposed to know that he's not in danger? Maybe the best thing for the cops to do in such a confrontation (resident demanding they leave the property) would be to just leave the area and call for uniformed back-up?
Or are there a lot of 80-year-old dealers out there trying to protect their territory?
I would have to consider the facts but if he's out there waving a gun then he would have had to assume some risk for his behaviour.
Did son witness the affair?
Why didn't the officers leave his property?
The first rule of street & military intelligence: Know who your (potential) allies are. You flunk this rule, and innocent allies die in "Friendly Fire."
That was sort-of my argument. Plus they said the old guy approached them three times, so it's not like he surprised them.
I have no idea why they just didn't leave if he gave them the opportunity.
There was another thread on the same story where I posted plenty of comments.
Did you know that elk/reindeer/etc (one species, different names) have something like 3 to 5 times as much iron compounds in their muscle tissue as cattle and similar animals?
I have family members in the beef business.
Moot point, I can't seem to draw a permit when there's a Democrat Governor (which is nearly all the time).
Yeah, it's also illegal to trespass, and in most states tresspassing at 2:30 AM with a gun in hand (out of uniform) may be good cause for Grandpa to cap your ass.
Grandpa drew down on the wrong guys.
Well we don't know that from the story. It could be they shot him first, as his son claims. I don't think we know.
Since we do not have the details, I could only speculate that Mr. Singletary noticed the activity, and went out to run them off...
Whether the undercover officers were actually on his property and not hanging around on the sidewalk or fringe of the property we will never know...And is probably a moot point now...
My suggestion is that anyone who notices suspicious activity should actually call (obviously for what its worth) and inquire to the activity...It might actually be some police sting activity...They are not going to not be where the action is...
If you know you live in a high-traffic area where you know (and don't say you don't, my inlaws live right next door to a revolving door operation in Pasadena, Texas) there is drug activity, drop that dime anyway!!! I seriously doubt anyone will return your call quickly enough, or even let you know if that is a police operation...Would kinda blow the surprise if you ask me...
And the police are not going to know if a resident like Mr. Singletary is not a risk of divulging information to anyone who might either retaliate, or lay low till the heat is off their area to continue the illegal activity...
So there are a lot of factors playing into this deal, and the shooting is a real tragedy...I do not know how the JSO could correct their procedures to keep this from ever happening again...
And if they did, who's to say the drug dealers won't pick up on this trend, and if anyone approaches them in the future they couldn't lie to keep a citizen from spilling the beans on their crimes??? Just to make a few more bucks before the "real heat" starts coming down on them???
Best thing to do in that circumstance is kill 'em first and ask questions later.
Giving bad guys or cops a chance just gets you killed.
On second thought, scratch that post.
Too easily misinterpreted.
I (can barely) appreciate our sarcasm, however, we have to ask ourselves where are these drugs coming from.
The answer is: ****MEXICO****
If Jorge Bush (el hombre sin cajones, y campeón de la unión norteamericana) would even TRY to SEAL OUR BORDERS we wouldn't have ANY of this nonsense.
~~obligatory immigration threadjack~~
Sad, but bad idea to point your gun at someone unless they are threatening you. Old west rules, you draw first, that is a threat that justifies return fire.
On a related note:
I think most marijuana is either grown inside the US or imported from Canada actually. I don't think Coca or Poppy grows very well in the Mexican climate. A wall needs to be built but to think it will stop drugs from entering the country is naive at best.
>"Oh goody. Another "I'm a 'libertarian' and thus don't need facts" thread.
What part of that sentence is factually wrong?
If the police tell you to put down your gun, put it down!
Live theatre. The show must go on.
You do not know why this man died, thus the entire sentence is prejudice masquerading as judgement. You're a "libertarian" aren't you?
There is not enough information. We don't know who fired first. We don't know what the resident said to the cops. I do not have specific knowledge of Florida laws but would you think the cops culpable if the resident fired first? Does a Florida homeowner have a legal right to shoot anyone in his yard who fails to leave when ordered to?
Not when you are on your own property, and they aren't identifying themselves properly. Florida has the "castle doctrine."
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