Posted on 02/03/2007 11:42:21 AM PST by T-Bird45
Watching the NFL playoff games, I heard the announcer discussing the possibility of the first black coach going to the Super Bowl. A black coach has never made it to the Super Bowl. Really? I was surprised. Surely someone had done that, I thought, but no, no one had.
Race will always matter whether we want it to or not. Milestones like this will be noticed less and less, though, as we become a more accepting place for people of all colors.
I asked NewsOK users if it is significant that two black coaches - Lovie Smith of the Bears and coach Tony Dungy of the Colts - are going to the Super Bowl. Most answers shocked and saddened me.
When I posted the question, I expected words of encouragement for Smith and Dungy, maybe some comments on how they are positive role models for young people. The responses were much different.
One man wrote: "Yes, the fact that blacks can rise to the position of NFL coach, US Secretary of State or Oklahoma's 4th District Congressman exposes people like Rev. Al Sharpton and Rev. Jesse Jackson for the lying, race-hustling poverty pimps they are. The only thing holding back someone in this country is an unwillingness to hitch up their hip-hop, prison-bride pants and work as hard in the classroom as they do at playing sports or behaving like anti-social gangstas, even if it means 'acting white.'"
Someone else wrote: "I'm tired of everything being black and white. The blacks want to be treated equal but they are always bringing up the 'race card.' They use their color like an excuse. Big deal that the coaches are black. Ninety percent of the NFL teams are black and have been for years. It's time to get over the color of their skin. A black man has a better chance of getting into the NFL than a white man just because of his color, and they want to make a big deal about the coaches being black? My thought on the subject is no big deal."
Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and MyNewsOK is designed to be a place for discussion and debate. As furious as these comments made me, I'm glad they were posted. It's a reminder that prejudice still exists. In their explanations of why race doesn't matter, these two MyNewsOK users show exactly why it does. I don't even know what "prison-bride pants" means.
People who use terms like "race-hustling poverty pimps" and "race card" are the reason milestones like the game Sunday still need to be celebrated.
BTW, the copy above was typed in because I could not copy/paste -- forgive any typos. Also the link may not work because it is to the electronic edition. If you want the actual article, I can e-mail it to you -- send me a PM.
"Yes, the fact that blacks can rise to the position of NFL coach, US Secretary of State or Oklahoma's 4th District Congressman exposes people like Rev. Al Sharpton and Rev. Jesse Jackson for the lying, race-hustling poverty pimps they are. The only thing holding back someone in this country is an unwillingness to hitch up their hip-hop, prison-bride pants and work as hard in the classroom as they do at playing sports or behaving like anti-social gangstas, even if it means 'acting white.'"
That person IS commenting on 'how they are positive role models for young people.'
It is right on point but the columnist can't see the truth forest for his liberal trees.
Who gives a Red Rats patoot?
"I'm tired of everything being black and white. It's time to get over the color of their skin."
Carrie thinks this is racist?
Carrie, is it racist to not care about skin color?
Checked the link - it works but only to the first few paragraphs.
Pinging OKC locals - thought you might like to comment on a local column.
I guess this reporter has the White Guilt Syndrome. I don't.
I reject the assertion, and see nothing but truth in those two responses.
Do you accept or reject the assertion?
But what if one team loses? Won't the coach of that team be a victim of racism?
I think she found what she really went looking for, at least in her mind. I reject the assertion. I am also astounded at how narrowly she views the world that she would not know what "prison-bride pants" are.
Last night there was a CBS program on best ads from past super bowls. The Mean Joe Green Coke ad continues to win and I would bet nobody watches the ad and says to themself, "Gosh, Joe Green is black ... that commercial must be racially motivated, somehow." Frankly, I don't even notice Joe is a blackman unless some dolt brings up the 'issue' ... he's a man, a man who worked damned hard to be the best at what he chose to pursue. PERIOD. I'm old enough to recall Rosie Greer or the Purple People Eaters, and I'll bet not three at FreeRepublic can off of the top of their head recall if and whom were the white guys on those front line defenses.
Rosie was in LA and the Purple Gang was in Minnesota, BTW.
Stephanopoulos Overstates Obama: A Lot of Blacks 'Didn't Know He Was Black'
I reject the assertion that the comments are racist. What's sad here is the fact that anyone felt compelled to announce or point out the fact that the coach, whoever he is, is black. Or that the author thought to herself, there's never been a black coach at the Super Bowl? THOSE are the people who want to continue defining everyone and their accomplishments by their skin color.
I got into a discussion about this subject last night with an Asian friend of mine. I told her that minorities seem to be obsessed with their ethnicity (that is, the ones I'm friends with) when no one else cares! One of my black friends is forever pointing out other black people, talking about "black" qualities and "white" qualities, etc. Me? When I think of the minority friends I have, I don't think "oh, that's my Asian friend" or "That's my Thai friend." I think of people as who they are as people. This one is my funny friend. That one is my thoughtful friend. Black, white, Asian, I don't care, but stop talking about your race! It drives me nuts. I don't think that race defines us, but it seems that many people think it does.
My grandmother cracked me up many, many years ago when she proudly announced to us all, "I *LOVE* black people!" Oh my goodness! It was hysterical! As if you could love people based on their skin color. Imagine if she (a Caucasian) had said, "I love white people!"
The Korean woman I was talking to last night (a new friend) asked me if when I think of her, I think of her as Korean. I said, "No, I think of you as Lisa." Then she thanked me! Huh? It's not like it's something I work on and consider an accomplishment.
Sorry to ramble. I just don't get all the focus on race.
I can only recall one (I think) -- Merlin Olsen. Do I get partial credit?
As to your point about Joe Green being black, you are absolutely on point and it is a great response to the columnist that what we really ought to be discussing is the human race achieving a significant goal, not the color of the person's skin.
http://newsok.com/article/3007717/ is the link
Your approach to describing your friends reflects a great goal/ideal for most of us. Even when we want to rise to that ideal, there are others that cannot escape the context of race being the overriding factor of their lives. This tends to affect the relationship with those friends and co-workers.
What's the big deal? NEITHER are the FIRST MINORITY coach of a Super Bowl team.
Tom Flores has that "honor" and he WON TWO Super Bowls coaching the Oakland Raiders.
Thanks for the link assistance -- much appreciated.
Merlin Olsen, Gary Larsen
Never before have noticed the similarity of names, however. As the Norse Nightmare, Larsen was aptly a Viking. Merlin should have been. :-)
I think liberal blacks do that. I don't think blacks of the human persuasion do.
I like Rush's take on this. Guys like Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith are great role models because of their accomplishments, not because of their color.
I wonder what the liberal race pimps of this nation will say of Dungy if the Colts win. Dungy is outspoken in his Christianity.
This is itself the goal (or at least the United States instead of the entire race), but as of today, the country is not there yet.
Did you get it from the Net or from personal memory? ... You get the prize, whatever it may be, BTW. Most will know Olsen because he's still announcing in sports, but few would remember Larson. Alan Paige would find that insulting don'tchaknow.
Bob Lilly, George Andrie. Of course, I go back to the days when the Dallas front four was Willie (Townes) Lilly (Bob) Jethro (Pugh) and George (Andrie).
Meant to ping you. sorry
A black man has a better chance of getting into the NFL than a white man just because of his color...
Tell that to Steve Urkel.
What a maroon...
It's always about racism. Even when no racism is intended, it can always be "perceived" and that counts just as much--like with the RNC ad against Harold Ford, Jr., and the white Playboy bunny.
Didn't Peyton Manning claim he didn't get the Heisman Trophy because he's white?
So racism is why a team with black coach has never made it to the superbowl?
I always thought that it was because the team didn't have what it took. That's quite a comspiracy, to keep black coaches out of the limelight...
It's interesting that there is constant stress in the MSM on the fact that Dungy & Smith are black, and very little that both men are strong Christians.
I have an unfair advantage, as a Minnesota fan. Many people wonder why a country boy from New York would be a Minnesota Vikings fan, and it's largely because of the Purple People Eaters. And since Alan Page is a justice on the Supreme Court of Minnesota (at least he was), he definitely deserves being noted. He went to law school full time while playing in the NFL full time!
But to the point, their color of skin never really came to mind.
Carrie Coppernoll is a very stupid person, which makes her perfect for her job as a left-wing newspaper columnist.
Didn't Peyton Manning claim he didn't get the Heisman Trophy because he's white?
I don't think Manning ever said that, although it seems to have been said by some people. According to Jim Wogan,
Manning was robbed of the Heisman because a vast majority of the voters bought into the Woodson late-season hype. Race had NOTHING to do with it. Michigan going undefeated and being ranked #1 did. Woodson won it on one play– a 78-yard punt return for a touchdown against Ohio State.
For the first sentence Americans. If there are other typos, you can get the gist.
"Do you accept or reject her assertion of racism and prejudice?
Of course not.
Looks more like reverse racism.
And down the abyss of history we go..
Taht these are the first two black head coaches to make the Super Bowl (can I refer to it that way, NFL?) is noteworthy.
Duly noted. Now let's move on.
So when does the media mode change from social engineering to simply reflecting a postive environment? How do we know that social engineering is being used with benevolent intentions?
Your post can be boiled down to 'the end justifies the means'. The hallmark of fascism and the introduction of tyranny.
This is Kantian ethics. Treat people as subjects not objects. The solution is to authentically relate to each other as people. You have a good heart, hope it spreads.
After reading such drival I have to ask, what's the opposite of logic?
Her assertion is idiotic to say the least and I reject it. The two examples used are very much NOT racist. The reporter is racist because she wants Blacks to have special treatment. What? Does she think that black coaches should have been going to the super bowl even though their teams weren't good enough to make it? Is she totally brain dead? The answer to the last question is, yes, she is!
The NFL is strictly a merit proposition, and I'm not qualified to comment on the fact that most of the players are black. Barry Switzer and certain others have, and I have nothing to add or detract.
The comments of both guys are blunt, but hey, that's considered cool these days.
Can't say that I disagree with these comments generally; both coaches seem like good guys, also coach Smith played and coached at TU. I'm happy for both of them and I leave it at that.
Thanks for the ping.
I think I can claim to have a more shelted life than just about anyone outside a quarantine ward ... and although I'd never seen the term "prison-bride pants" before reading this article, I knew exactly what it meant!
Ergo, I have to assume the writer is being disingenuous in claiming not to understand the reference.
...& that's final.
Your private email to me said my mail response would not be read, so lets have an honest discussion, not one in which you simply accuse me of suppressing your views and impute an 'attitude'.
I said that your post spoke to means not ends. Did you understand that?
You need to step back and listen to yourself. I pointed out that in your post above you are approving of 'social engineering' via the media. Think what that approach requires. It requires an elite deciding what is the proper goal of engineering for the 'masses. Is this really the way to grow the races together? Propaganda? Constant 'messages'? Thought police?
Call me naive, but I think of Dr. Martin Luther King as a real phenomenon. An American leader. He spoke a great truth and as Americans we responded, put pressure on Congress and reversed the evil segregation. Perhaps you think this was all just engineered? Who was pulling the strings then? Did the truth have nothing to do with the change in our culture since the days of King?
Fast forward to today. Where I live I see plenty of interracial couples. I see people going to ball games in racially mixed groups with warmth. In the Army I saw lots of regard and brotherhood among my black-white-hispanic-asian comrades.
Who focuses on race? Do we really need a census that counts percentage of race to determine who a person is? Do we really need to ask if Obama, Rice, Thomas, Steel, Cosby are 'black enough'. In the article in question, is it not enough to simply say what a great milestone it is that these two talented men have reached the pinnacle of their profession? Did the media really need to go out looking for racism -- and possbly mischaracterizing what they did find?
I still believe the truth of King, 'that we all must judge each other on the content of our character, not the color of our skin'.
Your answer is that we need more knowledgable, more elite, more pure-hearted people to MAKE people get along. Having studied Solzhenitzen, Hayek, and Reagan I know that "We the People" have our own wisdom and that we are making steady progress despite racial divisiveness now coming mainly from liberals (Joe Biden - 'he's clean').
Your approval of 'social engineering' opens the door to demagogues (Al Sharpton - led a riot that killed a jewish retail worker http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=98313). It speaks of thought control and suppression of free speech.
Free people can follow leadership that calls us to racial harmony. Those who want to manipulate or coerce us to it will manipulate us to other, more dark ends. And again, having studied the history of how tolitarianism comes to power, I will speak out against it.
You may continue to advocate for your social engineering approach, I am not suppressing your point of view. I am simply pointing from a historically informed viewpoint to the results of what you advocate.
See cantfindagoodscreenname's post for an example of treating people authentically not as material to be engineered.
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