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Vanity: And now for the rest of the question: Has conservatism been defeated in America?

Posted on 02/04/2007 3:01:09 PM PST by Jim Robinson

Would you accept a gay agenda/NARAL supporting abortionist gun-grabber as your party's savior against Hillary Clinton even if it means we abandon the pro-life, pro-family, pro-freedom of religion and pro-gun planks from the party's platform? And most likely ends any prayer of ever overturning Roe vs Wade or preventing gay marriage as the law of the land? And eventually leads to permanently ending any and all mention of God or prayer in the public square? And further erodes away the right of the people to keep and bear arms?

Will preachers speaking out against the gay agenda eventually become a hate crime in America? Will it soon become the law of the land that business owners must allow cross-dressing males to wear dresses in the office or face criminal/civil penalties like they do in San Francisco? Will man-boy "love" soon be accepted by the new American liberal society?

Has the anti-God, anti-America, anti-commonsense and decency ACLU, NOW and NARAL organizations defeated conservatism?

Is conservatism dead in the Republican Party?

Is the conservative movement dead in America?

Is God dead to Americans?


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2008; electionpresident; giuliani; giuliani2008; hillary; jimrobinson; mafiarudy; robinson; rudy; rudybluestatelib; rudyrino
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1 posted on 02/04/2007 3:01:12 PM PST by Jim Robinson
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To: All

Are you ready for some FOOTBALL!!?


2 posted on 02/04/2007 3:02:01 PM PST by Jim Robinson
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To: Jim Robinson

No; the attitude of "anybody but Hillary" is just as bad and myopic as "anybody but Bush."

But what are you saying? That Hillary might not be all that bad?


3 posted on 02/04/2007 3:02:31 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger (Wellllllll! Guess it's not about the economy anymore, is it? Stupid?)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

With hillary at least there would be republican opposition.

The problem with putting a RINO in the whitehouse is that both parties will end up supporting their liberal agenda.


4 posted on 02/04/2007 3:04:29 PM PST by flashbunny (If the founding fathers were alive today, they'd be plucking feathers and boiling tar.)
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To: Jim Robinson
Yes, I'm ready for some football!

That's the ticket, Jim! :)

and NO. America is a far, far long ways off from being OVER.

I quote John Belushi in Animal House:

It ain't over 'till I say it's over!!

CHARGe!!!

5 posted on 02/04/2007 3:04:32 PM PST by Alia
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To: Jim Robinson
Is conservatism dead in the Republican Party? Is the conservative movement dead in America? Is God dead to Americans?

No, but in all cases they're on life support. I believe the next 20 years are going to be rocky, but I truly do feel that Gen X and Gen Y will be significantly more conservative than their parents and grandparents. So while the short-term outlook is bleak, there's reason to have a lot of hope for the long-term.

6 posted on 02/04/2007 3:04:57 PM PST by NittanyLion
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To: Jim Robinson

Answer is no. THere are candidates for the presdency that are agaisnt all those things you mentioned. And it is up to us to ensure that one of them is our standard bearer in 2008.

The nonsense in the MSM that Hillary or Obama or breck girl are good candidates is just that. Nonsense. All are weak. And Hillary just flushed her chances down the drain with her idiotic statements about ending the war.


7 posted on 02/04/2007 3:05:09 PM PST by pissant
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To: DaveLoneRanger
"But what are you saying? That Hillary might not be all that bad?"

How could you possibly read that into my question?

Them's fighting words!

8 posted on 02/04/2007 3:05:12 PM PST by Jim Robinson
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To: Jim Robinson
50's-era neo-Puritanism will not be conserved. That movement - for better or worse - hit its zenith in 1994 and has now been defeated.

Conserving the radical ideals of the Founding Fathers is a different matter, and a cause that might attract broad support - if conservatives would actually dedicate themselves to conserving them.

9 posted on 02/04/2007 3:05:21 PM PST by Mr. Jeeves ("When the government is invasive, the people are wanting." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: Jim Robinson

It's not dead Jim.

Getting rid of Joe Schwarz and replacing him with conservative Tim Walberg is one of my proudest moments in my voting history.


10 posted on 02/04/2007 3:05:25 PM PST by cripplecreek (Peace without victory is a temporary illusion.)
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To: Jim Robinson
Well not for this guy it has not.

I just hope the right candidates can articulate the best message.

Otherwise we lose.
11 posted on 02/04/2007 3:06:02 PM PST by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
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To: Jim Robinson
GO AMERICA!!!

WOOOO!!!!

12 posted on 02/04/2007 3:06:03 PM PST by airborne (Elect an Airborne Ranger,Vietnam Veteran for President ! Duncan Hunter 2008!!)
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To: Jim Robinson

Things look pretty bad right now, but it is still early. When Newt declares in October, or some other real conservative pops out of nowhere, then we will see if conservatism is dead.


13 posted on 02/04/2007 3:06:45 PM PST by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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To: Jim Robinson

To hearten you a bit, there was a report on FNC this morning that findings from an independent survey showed that 60% of the country believe the success of a nation, this nation depends on religious upbringing. When asked which the respondents overwhelmingly said Judeo/Christian.


14 posted on 02/04/2007 3:06:45 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: Jim Robinson
I was well into my 30s before I had the time to actually pay attention to what the media and politicians have been doing to this country just in my lifetime.

I do not think that conservatism has been defeated, but it is certainly looking to me that the American Political Party status quo is doomed.
15 posted on 02/04/2007 3:07:18 PM PST by Radix (It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of what he was never reasoned into)
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To: Jim Robinson
* Is conservatism dead in the Republican Party?
Pretty much.

* Is the conservative movement dead in America?
No.

* Is God dead to Americans?

NO!

Just as you partly described, I think '08 will be anti-Hillary, not pro-GOP anything.

Sad situation, to be sure.

16 posted on 02/04/2007 3:07:44 PM PST by Enosh
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To: Jim Robinson

Unfortunately, I think Dick Morris is right: demographic shifts alone will spell the end of the Republican party as a major force in American politics within the next 20 years or so. That is, unless the Republican party simply continues to drift leftward to accommodate the increasingly socialist and divisive American landscape.


17 posted on 02/04/2007 3:07:56 PM PST by Junior_G
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To: Jim Robinson

A steely determination to win the war on terror is really all that matters for the time being. Let us choose a leader with that quality above all others.

Then when we're well on the way toward winning the truly existential challenge that faces our civilization, we can deal with abortion, gun control, gay rights, overtaxation, judge-made-law and all the other socialist/leftist agenda items that plague our great nation.


18 posted on 02/04/2007 3:08:02 PM PST by Hawthorn
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To: Jim Robinson
Why don't you just come out and say it?

Rudy is bad for the conservative cause!

19 posted on 02/04/2007 3:08:52 PM PST by airborne (Elect an Airborne Ranger,Vietnam Veteran for President ! Duncan Hunter 2008!!)
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To: Jim Robinson
If the pro-gun pro-family, pro-life, pro-God, anti-terrorist conservatives do not provide the electorate a leadership candidate who will grow the economy, provide leadership to energy independence, articulate why family values are essential, and reconnect with the core American principles as distinct from international humanism, then the conservatives deserve to lose.
20 posted on 02/04/2007 3:09:52 PM PST by mission9 (Be a citizen worth living for, in a Nation worth dying for...)
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To: Jim Robinson

Who could fight during the Superbowl? (Okay, besides Bears and Colts fans...)

I just mean I read the question as, "How low are we as conservatives willing to stoop to avoid having Hillary as President?" As in, there would be a threshold beyond which we'd rather settle for Hillary than get somebody worse who claims to be Republican.

I for one would suffer less under a Giuliani or McCain presidency (I think) than I would under Hillary, but I would not vote for either if it came down to a race betwixt Rudy and Hillary. McCain is anti-gun, and Giuliani is pro-abortion, neither of which I can vote for.

What do you think the chances of Condi running are?


21 posted on 02/04/2007 3:10:02 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger (Wellllllll! Guess it's not about the economy anymore, is it? Stupid?)
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To: Jim Robinson

Conservatism has not been defeated in America. All the democratic candidates that made inroads in non-liberal areas were by and large running on conservative or at the very least moderate platforms. As far as who our nominee is, It's all about name recognition now, when the campaign gears up and the candidates debate I don't think Rudy will be left standing. I definitely think he should get a cabinet job like Homeland Security but he is too liberal for the nomination and I think by and large the primary voters know that too or at least will by the time the primaries role around. My money on who will get the nomination is Romney or if he can get the money and a grass roots campaign going and some $$$ Hunter. If Gingrich jumps in though, then it's any ones guess. The election is ours to lose in 2008.


22 posted on 02/04/2007 3:10:06 PM PST by spikeytx86 (Pray for Democrats for they have been brainwashed by their fruity little club.)
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To: Jim Robinson
Candidate criteria: against abortion; a nominal Christian; and competent. On a secondary level: pro-gun-rights; pro-states'rights; and fiscally responsible.

From a state where the Democrats are going to win (you're from the same state), so can vote for political groups who have roughly the same stances but probably won't win the presidency (so basically voting on principal--for President).

23 posted on 02/04/2007 3:10:18 PM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( WND, NewsMax, Townhall.com, Brietbart.com, and Drudge Report are not valid news sources.)
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To: airborne

Way to take a position! ;-)


24 posted on 02/04/2007 3:10:42 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger (Wellllllll! Guess it's not about the economy anymore, is it? Stupid?)
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To: Jim Robinson

Yes.


25 posted on 02/04/2007 3:10:42 PM PST by dasboot
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To: Jim Robinson

Limbaugh for President please.


26 posted on 02/04/2007 3:11:37 PM PST by Sawdring
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

principle....


27 posted on 02/04/2007 3:11:54 PM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( WND, NewsMax, Townhall.com, Brietbart.com, and Drudge Report are not valid news sources.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
chances of Condi running are?

Condi came out as anti-Israel. She lost me right then.

28 posted on 02/04/2007 3:12:01 PM PST by Enosh
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To: Jim Robinson
I think there are plenty of conservatives in America, I'm worried that there aren't as many conservative politicians though. Why? I think it's as simple as corruption. Bringing home the pork buys more votes next time & it becomes a vicious cycle. I guess we really do get the government we deserve.

Speaking for myself personally, no, I could not accept a Republican candidate that is almost as liberal as the democrat"ic" candidate! I'm tired of being blamed for Republicans losing elections if they abandon their conservative base. Obviously, they can't win elections without the support of conservatives, so they had better start rethinking their strategies.

It's a very frustrating time to be a Republican!

29 posted on 02/04/2007 3:12:20 PM PST by alicewonders (I like Duncan Hunter for President - 2008!)
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To: Jim Robinson; Convert; AnalogReigns; OMalley; bradthebuilder; Mrs. Don-o; Knitting A Conundrum; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic Ping List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

Jim asks a great question What say you?

30 posted on 02/04/2007 3:12:36 PM PST by narses ("Freedom is about authority." - Rudolph Giuliani)
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To: Jim Robinson
Is this the live super bowl thread?
31 posted on 02/04/2007 3:12:51 PM PST by sarasmom ( War is not the most vile of the evils humanity commits . There is always apathy...)
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To: Jim Robinson
"Would you accept a gay agenda/NARAL supporting abortionist gun-grabber as your party's savior against Hillary Clinton even if it means we abandon the pro-life, pro-family, pro-freedom of religion and pro-gun planks from the party's platform? "

NO. I RATHER LOSE, and come back and regroup with a conservative candidate. If we put up liberal candidates against liberal candidates, conservatism doesn't have a prayer.

I'd rather lose. In fact, I'll vote for the democrat, in the hopes that the GOP will come to its senses.

Who cares if you win the battle, but LOSE the war?

32 posted on 02/04/2007 3:13:03 PM PST by Texas_shutterbug
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To: Jim Robinson
"Is conservatism dead in the Republican Party?"

There sure seem to be plenty right here that at least seem to want righteous conservatism, or traditional conservatism to be out of power. They seem to think America won't support it enough for it's candidates to win anymore and it seems to please some of them.

33 posted on 02/04/2007 3:14:06 PM PST by SierraWasp (Grayout Davis, Gang-Green Schwartzenegger... Recycled Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown!!! Watch for it in 4!!!)
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To: Jim Robinson

Appraising current candidates:

McCain: He's in the right lane with the left turn signal on. Any guy the media fawns over as a maverick is not to be trusted as a leader of the conservative/Republican cause(s).

Rudy: He has strong leadership in a lot of aspects, and a lot of people look up to him and respect him for his work post-9/11, and for his war on crime in NYC, but there is too much latent liberalism there, particularly the pro-abortion stance.

Newt: It seems he has been keeping way too low of a profile lately for him to come out of the starting gate now.

Jeb Bush: I doubt it.

Dick Cheney: No way.

Condi Rice: If she comes out and says "just kidding, I'm pro-life all the way" then I could really throw my support behind her.

A lot of other names are too obscure, or too long-shot to address.

Anybody you have your eye on, Jim?


34 posted on 02/04/2007 3:14:20 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger (Wellllllll! Guess it's not about the economy anymore, is it? Stupid?)
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To: Jim Robinson
The conservative movement, as we knew it, is over. George Bush made sure it was dead forever. By the way, someone remind Rush Limbaugh that the Fairness Doctrine will be one of the first pieces of legislation passed and signed into law by a Dim president. Rush's non-waivering support of Karl Rove, and George Bush, helped loose what we had gained.
35 posted on 02/04/2007 3:14:42 PM PST by devane617 (It's McCain and a Rat -- Now what?)
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To: Enosh

No way, really??


36 posted on 02/04/2007 3:14:50 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger (Wellllllll! Guess it's not about the economy anymore, is it? Stupid?)
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To: Jim Robinson

let's see what emerges in the primaries - the debate, answers to questions, defense of positions, etc. I want to hear all that, I want to see some polls too - before excluding any candidates.

I myself won't sign up for a suicide mission with a candidate that can't win the general election, that puts Hillary into the white house. I can't do it. if that makes me an "un-conservative", then so be it, but I can't sign onto that. and to what end regarding the things you posted? if Hillary wins in 2008, Roe will be untouchable for another 30 years.


37 posted on 02/04/2007 3:15:36 PM PST by oceanview
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To: Jim Robinson

What's left to save?


38 posted on 02/04/2007 3:16:05 PM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Junior_G; Jim Robinson
demographic shifts alone will spell the end of the Republican party

And the pathetic thing is that the GOP establishment is authoring their own demise in that regard by pushing amnesty for tens of millions of new Democrat voters in a country so evenly divided politically. Either they don't see it or they just don't care. ....and I'm inclined to believe the latter.

39 posted on 02/04/2007 3:16:32 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Jim Robinson

I'll hold my nose and vote for a RINO, to keep "she whose name cannot be spoken" out of office. But if the RINO is a cultural liberal who supports gay marriage and a "living" Constitution, I'll stay at home.

America is Slouching Towards Gommorah -- a handful of True Believer Conservatives are just barely keeping America from racing towards Gommorah. Unless there's another Great Awakening, America will continue to slide lower and lower and ...


40 posted on 02/04/2007 3:16:47 PM PST by AngrySpud (Behold, I am The Anti-Crust ... Anti-Hillary)
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To: Texas_shutterbug

you'd rather lose?

well, you had best plan on making that comeback (regarding Roe) - sometime around 2040 then. Because when you look at the makeup of the court, who is retiring, who is getting old, that's the next chance you'll get to rebuild.


41 posted on 02/04/2007 3:17:33 PM PST by oceanview
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To: Jim Robinson

The election of 2004 was more indicative of where the American electorate actually is. The slight shift to Liberalism in 2006 was very small and hid the fact that the voters went for some Democrats who campaigned on somewhat conservative platforms and turned out some Republicans who they saw as somewhat corrupt. Unfortunately corruption is growing and the basically conservative voters will turn that out of office whether R or D, whether real or perceived.


42 posted on 02/04/2007 3:19:01 PM PST by RightWhale (300 miles north of Big Wild Life)
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To: Jim Robinson

Absolutely not - and the socialists in charge now offer a target-rich environment. Let's hunt some rat!!


43 posted on 02/04/2007 3:19:19 PM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: Jim Robinson
no ... i will live my life by my beliefs and pass them on to my children ... hillary as president would suck, but she won't be victorious against me because of God

.... and, yes, i am ready for a colts victory

44 posted on 02/04/2007 3:20:36 PM PST by InvisibleChurch (I'm a climate skeptic. I am part of the "lunatic fridge".)
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To: Jim Robinson

It's too early to hand the nomination to Rudy. I am still keeping my fingers crossed that we can come up with Mark Sanford or Tom Coburn or somebody respectable. California Republicans threw McClintock under the bus and look what they got? I am praying hard that that does not happen on a national level.


45 posted on 02/04/2007 3:20:52 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Junior_G
Morris is FOS. Hillary grabbing the WH will awaken the masses and bring the Republican Party back to something worth supporting. Think those liberal middle class voters are going to like having their taxes raised and seeing money leave their households? Think that people will like seeing liberalism stuck up their asses and down their throats?

The last election was a repudiation of incompetence, a lack of leadership and of bogus rhetoric by the RINOs. People can yell at those who stayed home but since the party was trending left anyway why not clean house and start over? The last Congress just didn't get it.
46 posted on 02/04/2007 3:21:25 PM PST by misterrob (Jack Bauer/Chuck Norris 2008)
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To: Sawdring

"Limbaugh for President please".

I love Rush, and appreciate all he's done for the Conservative Movement, but couldn't vote for him for a national office. Multiple divorces = probable character flaw(s).


47 posted on 02/04/2007 3:22:57 PM PST by AngrySpud (Behold, I am The Anti-Crust ... Anti-Hillary)
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To: Jim Robinson

"Would you accept a gay agenda/NARAL supporting abortionist gun-grabber as your party's savior against Hillary Clinton even if it means we abandon the pro-life, pro-family, pro-freedom of religion and pro-gun planks from the party's platform?"

There's not much left to support on principle, in comparison. The war effort would be all that is left, to differentiate the two. I'm doing what I can, to ensure that the choice doesn't come to this. The primaries are pretty heavily front-loaded, though, so it's do or die for other candidates who would better represent conservative principles, such as, imho, Hunter. I'm going to need a lot of convincing to believe that Romney is not mostly packaging.


48 posted on 02/04/2007 3:23:35 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: Jim Robinson
Has conservatism been defeated in America?

If we are not careful it will be.

Republicans eat their own more than Democrats defeat anyone.

We have too much fighting against ourselves to defeat anyone else. As a result we lose elections.

49 posted on 02/04/2007 3:23:37 PM PST by maui_hawaii (China: proudly revising history for over 2000 years and counting.)
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To: Hawthorn
"Then when we're well on the way toward winning the truly existential challenge that faces our civilization, we can deal with abortion, gun control, gay rights, overtaxation, judge-made-law and all the other socialist/leftist agenda items that plague our great nation."

Allowing all the issues that hold the Republican base together to be pitched to the curb is the only thing that can destroy the party!

The swing voters don't join the RAT party because of those issues you think we can deal with later. It would be foolish to think you could win anything if you throw away 30-40% of your base.
50 posted on 02/04/2007 3:24:15 PM PST by Beagle8U (Thompson / Hunter 2008)
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