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James Lileks: Don't Underestimate Giuliani (And Newt still can't win!)
The Newhouse News Service ^ | February 6, 2007 | James Lileks

Posted on 02/06/2007 6:08:59 PM PST by quidnunc

Rudy Giuliani is in. Suggested campaign slogan: "He dealt with Brooklyn. He can handle Baghdad.'' He's not a sure thing; he has enough baggage to fill the cargo hold of a cruise ship. His sundry personal-life issues bother social conservatives; the gun control stance dismays the Second Amendment wing of the party; the pro-choice opinions alarm the evangelicals. That leaves about 47 Republicans, right? After all, it's just a party of cousin-marrying yahoos who'd sooner shoot up Planned Parenthood than vote for one of those fish-on-Friday types. Right?

No. Voters are more flexible and forgiving than you might expect. And none of the objections obscure the central appeal of the Rudy candidacy: He'll nuke 'em if he has to. That won't be the central theme of his campaign, of course, but it's the unstated strength of his candidacy. He's not a wuss. Look at the rest of the field:

Mitt Romney. He's a heavy fave, but the M-word makes his support in the evangelical community unsure. Many will vote for him, since he's an all-around moral guy, and no one wants a public debate over doctrinal differences. Other evangelicals regard his faith as something between David Koresh and Scientology, and would rather vote for Joe Lieberman. (Him you could convert!) Romney has an abortion flip-flop to confront, which softens his support as well. He's a solid candidate thus far because he's, well, solid: He appears hewn from the Presidential Quarry.

On the other hand, he could be a genial cyborg from an invading race. Wouldn't exactly surprise anyone.

-snip-

(Excerpt) Read more at newhouse.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: adulterer; bluestater; brooklynese; burnnycburn; corrupt; crimebuster; lawyer; nyersarecommies; nyliberal; nyscks; politician; prosecutor; squeegeestopper; streetsweeper; windowfixer
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

It's so true about Newt. He has all of these "great ideas" but, honestly, some of them are unrealistic from either a practical or political standpoint.

He does make it sound great until you say "Hey, we don't have matter-energy transporters!"


151 posted on 02/06/2007 8:00:27 PM PST by AmishDude (It doesn't matter whom you vote for. It matters who takes office.)
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To: nopardons

Exactly -- have had it with bi-partisanship!


152 posted on 02/06/2007 8:00:38 PM PST by PhiKapMom (Broken Glass Republican -- Rudy/Thompson 08 -- Take back the House and Senate in 2008)
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To: onyx

Why don't you CCP the bit about SPAMMING to her, from FR's front page?


153 posted on 02/06/2007 8:01:14 PM PST by nopardons
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To: A_perfect_lady

RUDY: HE'LL NUKE 'EM IF HE HAS TO!

Only, when would he think he has to? When he is forced? When we're nuked first?


154 posted on 02/06/2007 8:01:17 PM PST by Hambone02 (USAF AMMO IYAAYAS)
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To: Howlin
Another truth worth mentioning.......

Newsweek Poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International. Jan. 24-25, 2007. N=332 registered Republicans and Republican leaners nationwide. MoE ± 6.

.

"Suppose the race for the Republican Party's presidential nomination in 2008 comes down to a choice between [see below]. Who would you MOST like to see nominated?" If other/unsure: "As of TODAY, do you LEAN more toward [see below]?"

.

Rudy
Giuliani
John
McCain
Unsure    
% % %    

1/24-25/07

48 44 8    

.

Rudy
Giuliani
Mitt
Romney
Unsure    
% % %    

1/24-25/07

72 17 11    

.

John
McCain
Mitt
Romney
Unsure    
% % %    

1/24-25/07

69 19 12

155 posted on 02/06/2007 8:01:29 PM PST by deport
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To: Hambone02

I agree. He is a good man for Mayor of New York or police commissioner for just about any large city.


156 posted on 02/06/2007 8:01:37 PM PST by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE)
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To: Hambone02

There are several. Rudy looks better in pantyhose. So far, I like what I see of Fred Thompson. I don't know enough about Romney. Giuliani is not my first choice, but I could vote for him. My only WILL NOT VOTE FOR is McCain. I could vote for Newt, but he's shot himself several times.


157 posted on 02/06/2007 8:02:57 PM PST by Richard Kimball
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To: AmishDude

LOL!


158 posted on 02/06/2007 8:03:06 PM PST by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: narses

Thanks for posting the facts and evidence. It's much better to see evidence from you than name calling and dishonest rhetoric from others.


159 posted on 02/06/2007 8:03:38 PM PST by familyop ("G-d is on our side because he hates the Yanks." --St. Tuco, in the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly")
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To: nopardons

It's up to the moderators to enforce the rule. Since we do not hit abuse, the SPAM goes unnoticed.


160 posted on 02/06/2007 8:04:09 PM PST by onyx (DEFEAT Hillary Clinton, Marxist, student of Saul Alinsky & ally and beneficiary of Soros.)
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To: familyop
Some more facts

Time Poll conducted by Schulman, Ronca & Bucuvalas (SRBI) Public Affairs. Jan. 22-23, 2007. N=441 registered voters nationwide who are Republicans or lean Republican.

.

"Now I'm going to read a list of candidates who might be running for the Republican Party presidential nomination in 2008. If the Republican presidential primary or caucus in your state were being held today, listen carefully to the names and then tell me which candidate you would be most likely to vote for. . . ." Names rotated

.

%        
John McCain

30

       
Rudy Giuliani

26

       
Newt Gingrich

14

       
Mitt Romney

5

       
Sam Brownback

3

       
George Pataki

2


161 posted on 02/06/2007 8:04:14 PM PST by deport
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To: garv

Newt isn't running. So who is your candidate?


162 posted on 02/06/2007 8:04:25 PM PST by nopardons
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To: deport

So, we're going to end up with McCain.

Hope everybody's down with that.........LOL.


163 posted on 02/06/2007 8:04:40 PM PST by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: familyop

You are welcome. Name calling is a sign of severe weakness.


164 posted on 02/06/2007 8:04:44 PM PST by narses ("Freedom is about authority." - Rudolph Giuliani)
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To: deport


McCain and Guliani and vice versa in every poll you've posted.


165 posted on 02/06/2007 8:06:38 PM PST by onyx (DEFEAT Hillary Clinton, Marxist, student of Saul Alinsky & ally and beneficiary of Soros.)
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To: deport
You know, oddly enough, that Keyes won every FR poll back in 99-00. Not sure what that means except that FR and the public aren't necessarily one and same when it comes to politics.

Wow, quite the flamewar and I haven't even posted yet :-)

Not only are FR and the public not one and the same, FR and the Republican Party isn't one in the same.

The one thing I'm a bit disappointed by is the silly Newt fantasies, after dying out after an apparent wave of logical thought and objective rationality swept through these threads, seem to have returned.

166 posted on 02/06/2007 8:06:48 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: nopardons

You won't have to worry about bipartianship with Rudy. He'll be siding with the Democrats 80% of the time.


167 posted on 02/06/2007 8:06:49 PM PST by garv (Conservatism in '08 www.draftnewt.org)
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To: hosepipe; quidnunc
NOT being for Newt says more about Quidnunc than about Newt.

Based on quidward's history of unnecessarily excerpting posts, you'd think he'd support Ne Ging, at least.

168 posted on 02/06/2007 8:07:25 PM PST by AmishDude (It doesn't matter whom you vote for. It matters who takes office.)
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To: Strategerist

LOL!

You wit is welcome and needed tonight.


169 posted on 02/06/2007 8:08:28 PM PST by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: BibChr

Because, conservatives are being told that is who they need to vote for, by leftists. Once again, we need to vote conservative, not electability.


170 posted on 02/06/2007 8:08:37 PM PST by Hambone02 (USAF AMMO IYAAYAS)
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To: narses

Thank you. I wasn't supporting Rudy at all. But now I will vote for him. Out of spite. Against you.

I hope the rest of my fellow Iowans feel the same way.


171 posted on 02/06/2007 8:09:00 PM PST by AmishDude (It doesn't matter whom you vote for. It matters who takes office.)
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To: AmishDude

LOL, a bright and reasonable sentiment. I am sure Iowa will embrace a crossdressing gungrabbing abortion supporter from NY City. Sure.


172 posted on 02/06/2007 8:09:58 PM PST by narses ("Freedom is about authority." - Rudolph Giuliani)
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To: Richard Kimball

I'm with you on McCain. Giuliani is on the same list, personally. What politician hasn't shot himself a few times? ;)


173 posted on 02/06/2007 8:11:22 PM PST by Hambone02 (USAF AMMO IYAAYAS)
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To: BibChr
BibChr wrote: I don't get why so many conservatives are attracted to Giuliani. Is our bench THAT pathetically shallow?

The pendulum has started swinging back to the left.

Independents are turning their backs on conservatism and it will take someone like Arnold to win on a national level.

174 posted on 02/06/2007 8:12:09 PM PST by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: narses
No, TRUTH isn't SPAM and neither is refuting YOUR LIES!

What you do is SPAM!

175 posted on 02/06/2007 8:12:26 PM PST by nopardons
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To: narses
"You are welcome. Name calling is a sign of severe weakness."

Yes. It's also a sign of special privilege for the kind of women who do it (often feminists). Stormfront members were once discussing as to how to "infiltrate" Free Republic. They decided to do so with Christian identity (a prong of neo-Nazi efforts) rhetoric and with usernames indicating that they were women (even for those who were men).
176 posted on 02/06/2007 8:12:26 PM PST by familyop ("G-d is on our side because he hates the Yanks." --St. Tuco, in the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly")
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To: narses; Mo1; Howlin; nopardons; onyx
Click here to see the spam in all of its glory.

The same posts over and over again on every thread.

177 posted on 02/06/2007 8:13:36 PM PST by AmishDude (It doesn't matter whom you vote for. It matters who takes office.)
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To: narses

Bug off loon .. and yes that was name calling

But I'm sure that won't stop you from spamming more


178 posted on 02/06/2007 8:13:57 PM PST by Mo1 ( http://www.gohunter08.com)
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To: Strategerist
Not only are FR and the public not one and the same, FR and the Republican Party isn't one in the same.
Correct.
179 posted on 02/06/2007 8:14:41 PM PST by deport
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To: AmishDude

I did before; 14 spams in under 8 minutes. That's got to be some kind of forum record:

Ahem:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1780462/posts?page=11#11


180 posted on 02/06/2007 8:15:01 PM PST by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: quidnunc

I love Newt. He's the smartest person in the field but he absolutely has no charisma and can't shed his baggage. I don't know why. I love to listen to the man but I know that he can't win so why waste the energy.


181 posted on 02/06/2007 8:15:06 PM PST by Mercat
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To: Howlin

McCain: If he weren't old, mean and crazy, he'd make a great president.

(Sorry, I just love using that line.)


182 posted on 02/06/2007 8:15:31 PM PST by AmishDude (It doesn't matter whom you vote for. It matters who takes office.)
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To: AmishDude

I've seen it .. you can't miss it

It's on almost every dang thread a dozen times


183 posted on 02/06/2007 8:15:43 PM PST by Mo1 ( http://www.gohunter08.com)
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To: AmishDude


To: narses


Knock off the spamming.
Thanks.



11 posted on 02/06/2007 10:09:30 PM CST by Admin Moderator
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184 posted on 02/06/2007 8:16:08 PM PST by onyx (DEFEAT Hillary Clinton, Marxist, student of Saul Alinsky & ally and beneficiary of Soros.)
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To: familyop
Yes. It's also a sign of special privilege for the kind of women who do it (often feminists). Stormfront members were once discussing as to how to "infiltrate" Free Republic. They decided to do so with Christian identity (a prong of neo-Nazi efforts) rhetoric and with usernames indicating that they were women (even for those who were men).

Is that a confession?

185 posted on 02/06/2007 8:16:13 PM PST by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: BibChr

The bench is horrible! I posted a long comment about that which is at the end of a long, long thread. I have done a ton of research on various candidates since the election. We have done NOTHING to groom any Conservative to run this time since the 2006 election took out Allen, Santorum and Frist for starters.

We have very few candidates with a spine, we have candidates that pander knowing full well they cannot deliver, most of our candidates are not energizing and are just plain dull when they speak. Went through the whole list of why most cannot win and if they did, why they probably would not have the backbone to do a good job as President.

We have lost governership after governership the last few elections and what is left would not make a good candidate. I have looked at every conservative I could think of and cannot come up with one that could win. I have asked on here and you get the answers of people who are running.

I was supporting George Allen until he lost and you will find a lot of us on here that also supported Allen. Other then Rudy, George Allen is the only one of the current candidates including Newt the non-candidate who speaks and you listen. I have eaten enough dinners with louzy food and been almost put to sleep by the rest. Was not impressed with Newt's speech as he reached out to be bi-partisan.

Love Senator Inhofe but no way he would run. We just don't have a bench of conservatives to run IMHO. I finally decided to go to Rudy because at least you know what he stands for and he sure doesn't pander. He stands the best chance IMO of beating Hillary -- in fact, he stands the bet chance of grinding her into the ground with a landslide of votes as he reaches out to a wide spectrum of voters.

It is going to take a ton of money to run this time as almost all the primaries have or are moving into February instead of May/June like in 2000 so 3-4 months have been lopped off the primary schedule. Most of Bush's money people are going to Rudy including some of his best fundraisers. Getting Rich Goeas and the Tarrance Group was a coup. Person after person I know that have gone to Rudy are good conservatives that understand the WOT has to be the #1 priority in this election and we cannot allow Ms. Clinton/Obama/Edwards near the WH.

You need a lot of money and a crack campaign team with a 50-state strategy and Rudy has done just that. It has been put together in short order but he has the best and brightest of the GOP political people working for him IMHO.

My two cents!


186 posted on 02/06/2007 8:17:49 PM PST by PhiKapMom (Broken Glass Republican -- Rudy/Thompson 08 -- Take back the House and Senate in 2008)
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To: Strategerist
Did you ever notice that those same polls that the Rudy boosters like to cite keep showing Newt in either second or third place with 15-20%. For a "fantasy" who's not running he seems to be on a lot of Republican voters minds.
187 posted on 02/06/2007 8:18:05 PM PST by garv (Conservatism in '08 www.draftnewt.org)
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To: Howlin
"Is that a confession?"

The one kind of political group that I've seen the most false accusations from is that of radical, socialist feminists.
188 posted on 02/06/2007 8:18:07 PM PST by familyop ("G-d is on our side because he hates the Yanks." --St. Tuco, in the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly")
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To: familyop
The one kind of political group that I've seen the most false accusations from is that of radical, socialist feminists.

Okay, I'll put you down for "Has Issues with Women."

189 posted on 02/06/2007 8:20:13 PM PST by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: PhiKapMom

So have I and you'd think that Newt would have as well. But then, Hillary must still have his RAW FBI files. *shrugs*


190 posted on 02/06/2007 8:21:31 PM PST by nopardons
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To: narses; Mo1; onyx

I've been following this thread, and it dawns on me that: any thinking, reasonable and healthily socialized adult would identify


repetitive posting of the same thing over and over and over again

to the point of disrupting a thread

despite the repeated requests of the other "neighbors" on the thread to stop

in an almost adolescent taunting and incordial manner

is SPAM



Read the thread from the beginning, and try to read it as an unemotional outsider, and see what you think.

My question: what is the goal, when people are going to make up their own minds in their own time, and will likely be turned off by such behavior?


191 posted on 02/06/2007 8:22:36 PM PST by STARWISE (They (Rats) think of this WOT as Bush's war, not America's war-RichardMiniter, respected OBL author)
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To: STARWISE
Fanatical lunatic.
192 posted on 02/06/2007 8:23:48 PM PST by onyx (DEFEAT Hillary Clinton, Marxist, student of Saul Alinsky & ally and beneficiary of Soros.)
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To: garv
Did you ever notice that those same polls that the Rudy boosters like to cite keep showing Newt in either second or third place with 15-20%. For a "fantasy" who's not running he seems to be on a lot of Republican voters minds.

1) He has name recognition

2) Thus, he's a placeholder for everyone unhappy with Giuliani/Romney/McCain who doesn't know the other candidates. And that's MOST people, becuase, again, FR is not the Republican Party.

3) Whatever gains Hunter or Brownback or Tancredo eventually make, therefore, will come out of Newt's support.

4) The "Fantasy" I'm referring to is Newt winning a general election against any Bipedal Hominid the Democrats run. Newt has demonstrated electability in one fairly conservative Congressional district in Georgia, NOBODY wants a president named "Newt", people don't want to see Newt's face on TV or behind Presidential podiums, and much of the country either hates Newt or thinks he's a has-been joke.

And once again, though I hate having to point this out over and over, I don't understand how people cannot distinguish their personal opinion of a candidate from their opinion of how the great mass of other voters think about a candidate - you have to at least know or be able to understand the views of other people to understand what a hopeless candidate Newt is.

193 posted on 02/06/2007 8:23:58 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: chesty_puller
Same people just different leaders.

Isn't that the damn truth? They hate everything, including the GOP.

194 posted on 02/06/2007 8:24:04 PM PST by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: AmishDude

You are AWESOME!


195 posted on 02/06/2007 8:24:24 PM PST by PhiKapMom (Broken Glass Republican -- Rudy/Thompson 08 -- Take back the House and Senate in 2008)
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To: PhiKapMom

What do you think of Michael Steele? Certainly not ready for Prez in '08, but for the future...


196 posted on 02/06/2007 8:24:40 PM PST by RebelBanker (May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.)
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To: garv

Did you ever notice that those same polls that the Rudy boosters like to cite keep showing Newt in either second or third place with 15-20%. For a "fantasy" who's not running he seems to be on a lot of Republican voters minds.



What I'd love to see in the polls is not to spoon feed the names which includes those like Newt who haven't declared or filed any paperwork with the FEC and instead let the respondents offer a name of their own choosing. I think that would provide a more realistic answer of who's on the peoples minds.


197 posted on 02/06/2007 8:26:27 PM PST by deport
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To: Mo1

Last night it was on every page not just every thread and sometimes more than once on a page! I have never seen anything like it.


198 posted on 02/06/2007 8:26:54 PM PST by PhiKapMom (Broken Glass Republican -- Rudy/Thompson 08 -- Take back the House and Senate in 2008)
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To: PhiKapMom

One of the better posts I've seen on these threads.


199 posted on 02/06/2007 8:27:02 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: STARWISE; narses

Oh I have a pretty good idea what s/he's up to

And it will only hurt FR


200 posted on 02/06/2007 8:27:24 PM PST by Mo1 ( http://www.gohunter08.com)
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