^^^ Final attack, video clip.
Posted on 02/10/2007 6:28:36 AM PST by Cailleach
It was more medical than anything. I will not speak to specifics as its not proper, but he would have made Colonel.
Heroic action. Better late than never!
Rereading your 29 and 30 makes me believe you will not be convinced that the Army promotion system is fair, no matter what I say.
I don't know what you mean by "bean counters" when it comes to officer promotions. Promotion recommendations are made by boards of officers, randomly selected from throughout the force, who are senior to those being considered. Before those officers cast a single vote, each and every board member must be satisfied the system is fair - usually accomplished by a day or more of practice voting.
Board members come from varied backgrounds. Typically there are 15 board members. All branches are represented - combat arms, combat support and combat service support.
The file for each officer considered for promotion (school and command selection also) will have as a minimum; an ORB (Officer Record Brief), an official full length photo, and a complete Proficiency record that includes all OERs (Officer Efficiency Reports).
The board is divided into three panels of five each. Each panel votes each officer being considered.
Let's say there are 3000 Captains in the primary zone (PZ) of consideration and the Letter of Instruction, signed by the Sec Army, allows for 2000 to be recommended for promotion.
When the three panels have completed their voting there will be a 1-3000 ranking. The cut is made at number 2000. Usually it's not that easy because the curve will put a big hump right at 2000. The entire board may decide to re-vote x number below and above the cut. In the end, there may be an open discussion to determine who is above and who is below the cut. In other words, Captains Smith and Jones will never know how close they came to being on the other side of the cut.
The LOI also allows for a maximum number of secondary (below the) zone (BZ) recommendations. A previous separate board has already screened the secondary zone down to a manageable number of "water walkers." The board can recommend any number from zero to the maximum number allowed in the LOI. In any case the BZ recommendations do not take away from the PZ numbers.
Of course the board members are subjective, but I don't know how the system could be any more fair.
1. The officers selected to be members of the board are usually picked because they are available - not because they have any special qualifications.
2. Fitness reports are designed to evaluate how the reporting senior feels about an officer's performance of duty and they aren't weighted towards combat performance, though that would seem to be the sina qua non of a soldier or Marine's perfomance.
The upshot of this, is that those with reporting seniors that like them and know how to work the inflated world of fitness report writing will rise to the top, not necessarily those that have proved themselves in the crucible of combat.
This kind of response is a new low for this forum. The person that you sent this to is another member of the FreeRepublic and as such should receive some respect. This response of yours was ungentlemanly at best.
Thanks for the ping. Glad someone thought about me.
I agree that MOH is slightly over due.
There was a saying in the Army, "you're always going to run into a guy who doesn't like the way you part your hair."
But, over time, I believe the cream does rise to the top. One bad OER usually doesn't sink someone, unless it has something to do with a person's character, morals, etc. Board members quickly learn how to look at trends.
As for combat experience. If there is a combat arms officer out there who hasn't been in Iraq or Afghanistan by now, any board member worth their salt is going to dig a little deeper.
I think promotion recommendations will always be an art and not a science.
USMCVet, with a little search, I could show you one better (worse) than that. Consider the source.
"It was more medical than anything. I will not speak to specifics as its not proper, but he would have made Colonel."
Thank you. It's good to know that he wasn't treated like a red-headed stepchild.
"Rereading your 29 and 30 makes me believe you will not be convinced that the Army promotion system is fair, no matter what I say."
That's my opinion, based on the information I have. You haven't shown me any new information or new ways of looking at it, so why should I change my mind? I don't think that constitutes grounds for implying that I am unreasonable.
"I don't know what you mean by "bean counters" when it comes to officer promotions."
It's a personality type. They generally exert their influence before and during fitness report writing (OERs in the Army), so it doesn't really matter how many of them are on the selection boards.
"Promotion recommendations are made"
Yes, I'm aquainted with all that information. What you describe constitutes the equal treatment of unequals.
USMCVet is correct: Those with reporting seniors that like them and know how to work the inflated world of fitness report writing will rise to the top, not necessarily those that have proved themselves in the crucible of combat.
I suppose the Army could be different from the Navy in this, but in the Navy, one less-than-water-walker fitness report ruins a career. I've seen it many times.
When I was serving under one of the Swift Boat vets, when he was an O5 in command of a ship, an OCS ensign came aboard who reminded this CO of someone he had despised back in Viet Nam. Apparently that other officer would go to the seaward side of the ship and cower whenever they were providing NGFS.
This ensign never had a chance. The CO even told that story at the wardroom table, pointed at the new ensign, and said "You remind me of him." The CO then performed a partial-birth abortion on the ensign's career with fitreps accusing him of cowardice, even though there had been no combat, shipboard fires, or other opportunities to observe him.
On another ship in another ocean, I saw a department head who made a practice of not giving important information to a division officer he disliked, then telling the captain that he had and the subordinate just dropped the ball. So many others I have seen damned with faint praise to make a preferred officer look better.
The OER/Fitrep system is an open invitation to the unethical to practice favoritism, and the only safeguard -- if you want to call it that -- is the ethical sense of individual officers.
"Of course the board members are subjective, but I don't know how the system could be any more fair."
Well, let's not even look at "fairness." Let's just define the desired outcome as keeping and promoting the right officers. That goal could be advanced by giving performance in combat greater weight. Start the process by moving everyone who has awards for valor into the promotable group, followed by everyone who has performed satisfactorily in combat, and only then start looking at others...if there are any slots left.
The only other thing I can think of is something that can't be accomplished through fiat or regulation, and that is simply by demanding standards of conduct that make the military an inhospitable environment for office-politicking bean counters. That might not be possible, though.
You are welcome and by the way the Congressional Medal of Honor Society notes that the Medal is called the Medal of Honor. Individuals who inject the colloquial "Congressional" into the title are engaging in poor grammar. Either that, or, like you, they're just plain ignorant.
I'll bet you were always getting gigged for lousy attention to detail and sticking your nose where it doesn't belong.
You too, can pound sand.
I get it now. You were abused by other female impersonators. That's a shame!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1766828/posts
The above link is where the classless A.A. Cunningham first made the mistake of insulting my 19+ years of military service with his ignorance and ultra stupidity which I see he repeats here.
He does not deserve your effort at any conversation. He really does not even deserve to be allowed to talk the hate-filled tripe he does on this board as it is a direct violation of policies.
IOW, Don't waste the breath on him.
As for Cunningham, we need to see if Jim Robinson might look at cancelling his further participation in this forum.
The last thing we need is another intemperate insult specialist with nothing worthwhile to provide.
What exactly is this BS with awarding medals and badges decades late?
A year and a half ago I finaly got (in the mail) a minor decoration from the Navy that I should have received in 1970 (my combat action ribbon). One of my buddies got his bronze star from the Army last summer (3 months before he died), he was an Cobra gunship pilot in 1967.
Are they clearing the books of long overdue stuff?
All I can think of is that some group of supply sargeants has been told to get off their duffs and give the guys what they've got coming.
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