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Culture Warrior (Don't write off Giuliani's appeal to social conservatives)
Wall Street Journal ^ | Februrary 13, 2007 | BRENDAN MINITER

Posted on 02/12/2007 9:43:49 PM PST by RWR8189

The book on Rudy Giuliani is that he is too liberal on social issues to win the Republican presidential nomination. Tony Perkins, head of the Family Research Council, put it succinctly: "I don't see anyone getting the Republican nomination who is not pro-life and a staunch defender of traditional marriage."

But Mr. Giuliani is running strong in Iowa and New Hampshire polls and leading most national surveys of Republicans. He's charming crowds of conservatives everywhere he goes. So it's worth wondering if Mr. Perkins is missing an undercurrent coursing through conservative politics.

Republicans have just experienced a bruising midterm election defeat. The president is suffering dismal approval ratings, and its erstwhile front-runner for the presidential nomination, Sen. John McCain, made his national reputation as a "maverick." The Giuliani rise evident now may be more than name recognition and residual support from his stalwart leadership following the Sept. 11 attacks. Mr. Giuliani's support may also arise from his having successfully moved an entrenched political culture in New York City, something national Republicans have not been able to do in Washington.

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: New York
KEYWORDS: 2008; allrudyallthetime; anyonebutgiuliani; bluestateliberal; bologna; california; childmurder; corrupt; culturewar; disgustingleftist; downwithrudy; electionpresident; globalistsatwsj; gop; hemightaswellbeadem; holdnoseandvote; imakeannoyingkeywrds; leadership; nextpresident; partysplitter; promurderrepublican; republicans; rudydarino; rudyspam; rudysucks; rutards; spam; walltowallrudy
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1 posted on 02/12/2007 9:43:52 PM PST by RWR8189
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To: RWR8189

The Heck with Rudy as POTUS
Let him run for Hillarys seat


2 posted on 02/12/2007 9:49:43 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: RWR8189
The book on Rudy Giuliani is that he is too liberal on social issues to win the Republican presidential nomination.

As if liberal social policy doesn't come at a fiscal cost. As just one example: Single parentage resulting from the sexual revolution cost us a bundle in AFDC claims.

When the facts come out, Republicans will realize that Rudy's too liberal on fiscal policy to win it either.

3 posted on 02/12/2007 9:52:39 PM PST by Carry_Okie (Grovelnator Schwarzenkaiser: Making fascism fashionable in Kaleefornia, one charade at a time.)
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To: RWR8189

My dream ticket right now is Giuliani/Kyl.


4 posted on 02/12/2007 9:53:05 PM PST by inkling (exurbanleague.com)
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To: RWR8189

Sorry. Rudy sucks. Next candidate, please.


5 posted on 02/12/2007 9:53:31 PM PST by Antoninus ( Who is Duncan Hunter? Find out....www.gohunter08.com)
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To: RWR8189

The latest poll suggests that Rudy can't even carry his home state.


6 posted on 02/12/2007 9:53:55 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: RWR8189

However well he'll do, he won't get my vote.


7 posted on 02/12/2007 9:55:33 PM PST by Tim Long (Two of my favorite creationists: Jesus Christ (Matthew 19:4) and Ronald Reagan)
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To: RWR8189

We're writing "off Giuliani's appeal to social conservatives." And he's not "charming crowds of conservatives" despite the bandwagon propaganda approach being used by Democrats in our discussions and the media. For those of you unfamiliar with that propaganda method, try the following keywords in your search.

propaganda bandwagon


8 posted on 02/12/2007 9:57:34 PM PST by familyop ("G-d is on our side because he hates the Yanks." --St. Tuco, in the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly")
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To: RWR8189
The fact that Rudy drove the porn merchants out of Times Square, spoke out against fatherless children and out-of-wedlock births, and spoke out against taxpayer funded "art" that mocked Christianity is lost on the rabid social-issue conservatives.

Their candidates didn't do zilch to advance social conservatism while keeping a chair warm in Congress for years, even decades, so they have to trash the front-runner, the guy with the solid record, in out-and-out naked desperation.

9 posted on 02/12/2007 9:59:25 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Good night Chesty, wherever you are!)
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To: JCEccles

Yah? So what. Evan Bahy couldn't have carried his home state, but he still was one of the scarier D nominee possibilities.


10 posted on 02/12/2007 10:01:15 PM PST by zbigreddogz
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To: RWR8189
"We're writing "off Giuliani's appeal to social conservatives." And he's not "charming crowds of conservatives" despite the bandwagon propaganda approach being used by Democrats in our discussions and the media. For those of you unfamiliar with that propaganda method, try the following keywords in your search.

propaganda bandwagon


And BTW, some Giuliani fans were recently joking and gloating about using exactly that approach in a recent FR thread. Other commenters were unaware of what they were referring to while patting each other on their backs for using that word ("bandwagon").
11 posted on 02/12/2007 10:01:41 PM PST by familyop ("G-d is on our side because he hates the Yanks." --St. Tuco, in the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly")
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To: RWR8189
Giuliani made a trip to the state and struck a chord by speaking to a burning issue in South Carolina--a fight over school choice. This probably won't make the national evening news, but today some 5,000 people--many of whom are black and live in poorly performing rural school districts--are expected to descend on the state capitol in Columbia to rally for school choice....One woman who attended told me she wonders whether electing a president who successfully took on the mob in New York is what it will take to finally break through the entrenched education political culture. Christian conservatives make up the core of the school-choice movement in the state. If they come to the conclusion that Mr. Giuliani is on their side and has the leadership qualities to achieve lasting and meaningful change, he may prove a surprisingly strong contender.

There's something larger going on in this election that the traditional political labels and conventional thinking can discern and describe. Giuliani's candidacy has the promise to change...maybe even radically...the dynamics of American politics, for the better, for all of us.

12 posted on 02/12/2007 10:03:05 PM PST by My2Cents ("I support the right-ward most candidate who has a legitimate chance to win." -- W.F. Buckley)
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To: RWR8189

RG running strong in Iowa.
Since they have a democrat senator, democrat gov. and mod repo sen. not exactly a bastion of Republicanism


13 posted on 02/12/2007 10:03:20 PM PST by SoCalPol (Duncan Hunter '08 Tough on WOT & Illegals)
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To: familyop

Abortion, homosexuality, and gun control laws are still around after 12 years of a Republican Congress.


14 posted on 02/12/2007 10:03:50 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Good night Chesty, wherever you are!)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Abortion, homosexuality, and gun control laws are still around after 12 years of a Republican Congress.

And people like this don't help.

15 posted on 02/12/2007 10:05:07 PM PST by Tim Long (Two of my favorite creationists: Jesus Christ (Matthew 19:4) and Ronald Reagan)
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To: areafiftyone

***Ping***


16 posted on 02/12/2007 10:05:11 PM PST by My2Cents ("I support the right-ward most candidate who has a legitimate chance to win." -- W.F. Buckley)
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To: mylife

"Let him run for Hillarys seat"

Didn't he run against her and loose?


17 posted on 02/12/2007 10:08:03 PM PST by babygene (Never look into the laser with your last good eye...)
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To: babygene
Didn't he run against her and loose?

No, he ran against her and bailed, right on cue.

18 posted on 02/12/2007 10:09:44 PM PST by Carry_Okie (Grovelnator Schwarzenkaiser: Making fascism fashionable in Kaleefornia, one charade at a time.)
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To: Tim Long
And people like this don't help.

So it's better to blame Giuliani than to hold Congressional Republicans responsible?

19 posted on 02/12/2007 10:09:47 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Good night Chesty, wherever you are!)
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To: babygene

Nope.


20 posted on 02/12/2007 10:09:58 PM PST by onyx (DEFEAT Hillary Clinton, Marxist, student of Saul Alinsky & ally and beneficiary of Soros.)
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To: mylife

"Let him run for Hillarys seat"

Giuliani was too afaird he'd lose and look bad if he challenged Clinton for that U.S. senate seat in 2006.

Giuliani: America's selected and not elected mayor.


21 posted on 02/12/2007 10:12:06 PM PST by NapkinUser (Free Ramos and Compean! Disbarment for the Nifong-wannabe Johnny Sutton.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
"Abortion, homosexuality, and gun control laws are still around after 12 years of a Republican Congress."

...because most members of Congress are like Giussolini in more ways than one.
22 posted on 02/12/2007 10:12:22 PM PST by familyop ("G-d is on our side because he hates the Yanks." --St. Tuco, in the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly")
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To: Carry_Okie

" No, he ran against her and bailed, right on cue."

That's pretty much the same thing.


23 posted on 02/12/2007 10:13:02 PM PST by babygene (Never look into the laser with your last good eye...)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
So it's better to blame Giuliani than to hold Congressional Republicans responsible?

No, it's better not to think that voting for leftwing extremist will remedy Congressional leftism.

24 posted on 02/12/2007 10:13:10 PM PST by Tim Long (Two of my favorite creationists: Jesus Christ (Matthew 19:4) and Ronald Reagan)
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To: mylife

So you are anticipating that Hillary's seat will be vacant?
She thanks you for your support.


25 posted on 02/12/2007 10:15:21 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: mylife

Since Spitzer is the new DEM governor, should Hillary become president, the Governor of N.Y. will appoint her replacement. Which Senate race are you talking about? The next one, for her seat is in 2012.


26 posted on 02/12/2007 10:15:31 PM PST by nopardons
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To: familyop
because most members of Congress are like Giussolini in more ways than one.

Bringing up comparisons to a dictator means you automatically lose the argument.

27 posted on 02/12/2007 10:18:35 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Good night Chesty, wherever you are!)
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To: areafiftyone; PhiKapMom; BunnySlippers; Blackirish; Hildy; tkathy; Corin Stormhands; DKNY

Latest Rudy news.


28 posted on 02/12/2007 10:18:41 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Tim Long
No, it's better not to think that voting for leftwing extremist will remedy Congressional leftism

Since when did Presidents have the power to eliminate abortions and homosexual behavior and void existing gun control laws?

29 posted on 02/12/2007 10:20:28 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Good night Chesty, wherever you are!)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
You don't get it.

Cleaning up Times Square, eliminating the squeegee-men, arresting public urinators and catching turnstile jumpers in no way compares to Rudy`s political positions on the major social issues. Rudy remains:

~ Pro-choice ~ Supports Abortion on Demand ~ Supports Partial Birth Abortion ~ Supports Roe v. Wade ~ Supports Taxpayer Funded Abortions ~ Supports Embryonic Stem Cell ~ Opposes a Federal Marriage Amendment ~ Supports Gay Domestic Partnership/Civil Unions ~ Supports Openly Gay Military ~ Opposes Defense of Marriage Act ~ Supports Amnesty for Illegal Aliens: AKA. "regularization" ~ Supports Special Path to Citizenship for Illegal Aliens ~ Opposes Tough Penalties for Employers who hire Illegal Aliens ~ Supports Sanctuary Cities/Ignoring Immigration Law ~ Supports gun control and Confiscating firearms ~ Supports an Assault Weapons Ban ~ Initiated Frivolous Lawsuits Against Gun Makers ~ Supports Extensive Gun Registration and Licensing.

These are the issues that will matter to most conservatives when they go to the primary polls to choose a GOP candidate to match up against the Democrat candidate. Rudy is outside mainstream social conservatism. Not to mention Rudy`s fiscal record of a big govt Republican. Rudy left behind a big deficit, massive debt and an overall poor fiscal record. The scope of NYCity government was not reduced at all. From 1997 to 2001, spending under Giuliani went up 32%, more then double the rate of inflation.

Sorry. The facts don't help Rudy at all.

30 posted on 02/12/2007 10:20:40 PM PST by Reagan Man (Conservatives don't vote for liberals.)
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To: Carry_Okie; babygene

No, he neither lost nor "bailed". The man had prostate cancer and had to undergo treatment. It has killed his father and there was no way he could have or should have ignored it and no way he could possibly have run a campaign while undergoing treatment.


31 posted on 02/12/2007 10:20:53 PM PST by nopardons
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To: babygene

He never ran against her.


32 posted on 02/12/2007 10:22:08 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Since when did Presidents have the power to eliminate abortions and homosexual behavior and void existing gun control laws?

The only plausible way of illegalizing murder is to elect a president who will only appoint anti-Roe justices. So far that has not happened. And somehow I doubt Giuliani will be the one to do so.

33 posted on 02/12/2007 10:22:24 PM PST by Tim Long (Two of my favorite creationists: Jesus Christ (Matthew 19:4) and Ronald Reagan)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
It's fear that drives them and that fear has now begun to reach the hysteria stage.
34 posted on 02/12/2007 10:23:22 PM PST by nopardons
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To: familyop

Leftists in NYC used to compare Rudy to Mussolini. Weak minds think alike.


35 posted on 02/12/2007 10:23:28 PM PST by Free ThinkerNY ((((Truth shall set you free))))
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To: RWR8189

Wishful thinking by a paper that should know better...


36 posted on 02/12/2007 10:23:50 PM PST by Old_Mil (http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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To: nopardons
The man had prostate cancer and had to undergo treatment.

So what? Democrats have run for office DEAD and it didn't stop them.

37 posted on 02/12/2007 10:24:02 PM PST by Carry_Okie (Grovelnator Schwarzenkaiser: Making fascism fashionable in Kaleefornia, one charade at a time.)
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To: My2Cents
There's something larger going on in this election that the traditional political labels and conventional thinking can discern and describe. Giuliani's candidacy has the promise to change...maybe even radically...the dynamics of American politics, for the better, for all of us.

They have some great medications for that these days.

38 posted on 02/12/2007 10:24:08 PM PST by EternalVigilance ("With Republicans like these, who needs Democrats?")
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To: Tim Long

Neither will anyone you favor.


39 posted on 02/12/2007 10:25:37 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Reagan Man
Great list.

The facts are outing Giuliani's supporters as liberals.

When the facts aren't known, you could excuse some of them as being merely ignorant. That is less and less the case here, and will be the case in the Republican electorate at large over time.
40 posted on 02/12/2007 10:27:33 PM PST by EternalVigilance ("With Republicans like these, who needs Democrats?")
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Abortion, homosexuality, and gun control laws are still around after 12 years of a Republican Congress.

So the solution is to elect more liberal Republicans, I see.

41 posted on 02/12/2007 10:28:07 PM PST by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might)
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To: mylife
Let him run for Hillarys seat

He might as well, there's not a dimes worth of difference between them on ANY issue!
42 posted on 02/12/2007 10:28:11 PM PST by loboinok (Gun control is hitting what you aim at!)
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To: NapkinUser
That's a remark only a political niaf or a propagandxist would make.

A REAL politician, with more principles than you give him credit for, didn't run against her, in '06, because he knew that he was going to run for president.

Hillary lied to New Yorkers, Obama lied the Illinoisans; Rudy didn't lie to anyone.

43 posted on 02/12/2007 10:28:44 PM PST by nopardons
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To: NapkinUser
Giuliani was too afaird he'd lose and look bad if he challenged Clinton

Why say that? There is absolutely no truth in that. 'Guiliani' and 'fear' are as far as the east is from the west.
44 posted on 02/12/2007 10:29:16 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: babygene

It's also false.


45 posted on 02/12/2007 10:29:19 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Tim Long
Oh, are you planning on voting for Hillary; or is Obama your favorite?

They are "left wing extremists; Rudy isn't!

46 posted on 02/12/2007 10:30:57 PM PST by nopardons
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To: loboinok

Well then, I guess you aren't very well informed.


47 posted on 02/12/2007 10:31:17 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Reagan Man
Abortion, gun control, and homosexual behavior were all established policies before Rudy, and no matters who's elected elected they'll continue.

Rudy has the money, the name recognition, and the solid executive experience. He is in favor of limiting government and tax cuts while the other Republican candidates favor the failed status quo of spending on liberal entitlement programs and the welfare state that's going to create class divisions and hostilities.

Whatever candidate you're shilling for has a career of keeping a seat warm in Congress who did little to advance both the fiscal and the social conservatism that you want to handcuff Rudy to.

48 posted on 02/12/2007 10:32:16 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Good night Chesty, wherever you are!)
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To: Reagan Man

I propose a new litmus test for the rest of the Republican field: Would you or would you not support Rudy Giuliani if he were the party's nominee? What do you say, Sam and Tom and Tommy and Ron and Mike?

Mitt or John don't count. They've already proven that they're complete political prostitutes, so there's no use even asking.


49 posted on 02/12/2007 10:33:03 PM PST by EternalVigilance ("With Republicans like these, who needs Democrats?")
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To: nopardons
Oh, are you planning on voting for Hillary; or is Obama your favorite? They are "left wing extremists; Rudy isn't!

Wrong. Being a Republican doesn't put you outside the realm of left-wing extremism.

50 posted on 02/12/2007 10:33:08 PM PST by Tim Long (Two of my favorite creationists: Jesus Christ (Matthew 19:4) and Ronald Reagan)
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