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Patrick seeks to limit background checks
Boston.com ^ | February 12, 2007 | By Andrea Estes

Posted on 02/13/2007 11:44:46 AM PST by BigFinn

Governor Deval Patrick, returning to one of the more contentious issues of his campaign, has begun quietly putting together a plan to limit employers' access to the criminal records of potential employees.

Aides have been meeting with lawmakers and advocates working to limit the scope of the Criminal Offender Record Information law, which gives many employers broad access to criminal records. Activists argue that many applicants are rejected for jobs based on minor criminal convictions, crimes unrelated to the post, or records that contain errors.

(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Government; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: backgroundchecks
I wonder if he objects to checking the backgrounds of pilots? What on earth are they smoking in that state?
1 posted on 02/13/2007 11:44:49 AM PST by BigFinn
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To: BigFinn

I wonder if he objects to checking the backgrounds of gun owners.


2 posted on 02/13/2007 11:47:13 AM PST by Ouderkirk (Don't you think it's interesting how death and destruction seems to happen wherever Muslims gather.)
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To: BigFinn

I think his chief concern is that lawmakers will have trouble getting jobs when they leave office.


3 posted on 02/13/2007 11:47:30 AM PST by hometoroost (TSA = Thousands Standing Around)
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To: BigFinn

And when the employee of the repair company that comes into someone's home commits a crime, who will be sued, the governor or the company???


4 posted on 02/13/2007 11:48:28 AM PST by keepitreal
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To: BigFinn
How about all people running for office or employed by the government provide their FBI files to the public?
5 posted on 02/13/2007 11:49:53 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran ("Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto")
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To: BigFinn

What's the matter, Patrick? Folks not bugging out of MA fast enough for ya?


6 posted on 02/13/2007 11:51:02 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: BigFinn

This is absurd. For ex-cons who really have cleaned up their act, there are ways of having the record expunged. The only legitimate concerns are the accuracy of the records and the branding of "sex offenders" by vindictive ex-spouses.


7 posted on 02/13/2007 11:53:08 AM PST by Squawk 8888 (Is human activity causing the warming trend on Mars?)
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To: keepitreal
And when the employee of the repair company that comes into someone's home commits a crime, who will be sued, the governor or the company???

Of course, we all know the answer to that. MA is so anti-business it's hard to believe they could be more so -- but, alas, they'll try and succeed.

8 posted on 02/13/2007 11:54:55 AM PST by Paine in the Neck
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To: mewzilla

You are correct, mewzilla. The stampede will get worse as Mr. Patrick plays "King for a Day" every day for the next four years.

I am so delighted to have left Massachusetts 30 years ago. I never regretted that move for a moment.


9 posted on 02/13/2007 11:56:38 AM PST by RexBeach
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To: BigFinn

It's not unreasonable for an employer to deny *any* potential employee a job for *any* criminal conviction,regardless of how "minor" the crime and regardless of how indirect the connection might be between the crime and the job being sought.


10 posted on 02/13/2007 11:57:11 AM PST by Gay State Conservative ("The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."-Karl Marx)
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To: RexBeach
You are correct, mewzilla. The stampede will get worse as Mr. Patrick plays "King for a Day" every day for the next four years.

It might not be four years.It's common knowledge here that The Devaluator's real ambition is a Senate seat.

Teddy's liver has gotta be on the verge of collapse and Kerry certainly could perish in a windsurfing accident.....

11 posted on 02/13/2007 12:01:21 PM PST by Gay State Conservative ("The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."-Karl Marx)
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To: BigFinn

Lawful gun-owners, however, will still be checked at every renewal...


12 posted on 02/13/2007 12:02:24 PM PST by pabianice
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To: Gay State Conservative
How discriminatory of you! Why would an employer assume that just because a guy writes hot checks he might steal from a customer, or if he beat up his wife he might hit a fellow employee, or if he has a DUI he might drink while driving a company vehicle? /sarc
13 posted on 02/13/2007 12:03:55 PM PST by keepitreal
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To: BigFinn
Why doesn't the commonwealth hire these people? They would fit right in with the Massachusetts legislature and the bureaucracy.
14 posted on 02/13/2007 12:05:30 PM PST by Brad from Tennessee (Anything a politician gives you he has first stolen from you)
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To: Brad from Tennessee
Only in Massachusetts, how many times has that been said?
15 posted on 02/13/2007 12:15:42 PM PST by TYVets (God so loved the world he didn't send a committee)
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To: Gay State Conservative

And, in this day of "discrimination this" and "discrimination that" the employer will usually have a reason besides a conviction for a minor crime unrelated to the position itself as the reason for not hiring the person. It might contribute to the overall decision, but that's all. His argument is a red herring.


16 posted on 02/13/2007 12:18:20 PM PST by delphirogatio
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To: delphirogatio
I've never had hiring authority during my working life but if I did I'd refuse to hire anyone with any kind of criminal background...regardless of how minor and regardless of how long ago it was or how old the person was when the crime(s) was/were committed.
17 posted on 02/13/2007 12:29:50 PM PST by Gay State Conservative ("The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."-Karl Marx)
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To: BigFinn

I feel sorry for you folks from MA, but this may save NH, my state from being overrun by the criminals form MA. Maybe even our bad guys, and those from your state who decided to "work" up here will go back.

Thanks Patty D.


18 posted on 02/13/2007 12:34:28 PM PST by tiger-one (The night has a thousand eyes)
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Bad, bad idea.

And who's to decide if any particular offense is relevant to a position for hire, the gate keepers of information???

From my own personal experience, I'd say it's relevant that a person is of a criminal mindset, period, no matter the nature of the offenses. I learned the hard way to avoid entanglement with my jailbird neighbors.


19 posted on 02/13/2007 12:35:39 PM PST by Titan Magroyne ("Y'know, I've always thought of politics as show business for ugly people." Jay Leno:Al Gore 11/29)
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To: BigFinn
What on earth are they smoking in that state?

How dare you ask. You sound like someone who would deny someone a job who is "turning their life around" over something small like armed robbery or aggravated assault. /sarcasm
20 posted on 02/13/2007 12:37:36 PM PST by jackieaxe (Unsourced reporting is not reporting but a lie or a manipulation)
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To: RexBeach
You are correct, mewzilla. The stampede will get worse as Mr. Patrick plays "King for a Day" every day for the next four years.

Last I heard, if this keeps up, to the tune of one or two House seats.

Way to go, 'Rats!

21 posted on 02/13/2007 12:37:49 PM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: BigFinn
This is just the most recent action by the far leftist Governor who is soft on crime.

One of the first actions taken by Gov. Deval Patrick upon taking office was to rescind the state and federal agreement, arranged by former Gov. Romney, which allowed Massachusetts state troopers to arrest illegal aliens when troopers encounter them in the normal course of their duties.

22 posted on 02/13/2007 12:38:26 PM PST by Unmarked Package (Amazing surprises await us under cover of a humble exterior.)
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To: Titan Magroyne
From my own personal experience, I'd say it's relevant that a person is of a criminal mindset, period, no matter the nature of the offenses. I learned the hard way to avoid entanglement with my jailbird neighbors.

Old Welsh Proverb: "A man who would steal an egg will steal more."

23 posted on 02/13/2007 12:39:46 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: Gay State Conservative

When I interview for store clerks, I hand them the application and ask them to fill it out. While they're doing that, I inform them that I will run criminal background checks on them and do a drug screen.

Fully 8 out of 10 hand the application back to me and walk out, calling me a "Racist MF'er." (And that's just the women!)


24 posted on 02/13/2007 12:46:00 PM PST by CTOCS (Some people drink from the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.)
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To: Myrddin

Preachin' to the choir, preachin' to the choir. :-D


25 posted on 02/13/2007 12:47:39 PM PST by Titan Magroyne ("Y'know, I've always thought of politics as show business for ugly people." Jay Leno:Al Gore 11/29)
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To: BigFinn

Patrick's only concern is that so many black people have criminal records. He is helping out his homies.


26 posted on 02/13/2007 12:49:30 PM PST by lady lawyer
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To: BigFinn

Probably. Maybe he does not want to limit pedophiles' access to children.


27 posted on 02/13/2007 12:49:40 PM PST by Dante3
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To: BigFinn

The background check merely confirms the answer to the standard question "have you been convicted of a crime". If the applicant lied, he should not be considered.


28 posted on 02/13/2007 12:52:34 PM PST by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help m)
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To: CTOCS
Fully 8 out of 10 hand the application back to me and walk out, calling me a "Racist MF'er." (And that's just the women!)

I ain't no lawyer,but I'll wager that you'd be wise to do exactly the same thing with *all* applicants,lest someone hires a lawyer trained at the Jesse Jackson School of Law and sue you in Federal *and* state court.

29 posted on 02/13/2007 12:52:48 PM PST by Gay State Conservative ("The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."-Karl Marx)
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To: hometoroost
I think his chief concern is that lawmakers will have trouble getting jobs when they leave office.

They should not be there long enough to get in trouble. TERM LIMITS, NOW! < /attempted thread hijack > ;^)

30 posted on 02/13/2007 12:55:01 PM PST by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help m)
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To: Gay State Conservative

I was being facetious at the end. All applicants are treated the same.


31 posted on 02/13/2007 1:03:50 PM PST by CTOCS (Some people drink from the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.)
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To: Squawk 8888

".... there are ways of having the record expunged."
Can you name a few? I'm very interested as to how such a thing is done.


32 posted on 02/13/2007 1:29:19 PM PST by em2vn
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To: em2vn

Some states and Canada have a process of obtaining a judicial pardon. It usually involves keeping a clean record for a number of years after the sentence has been served.


33 posted on 02/13/2007 1:33:23 PM PST by Squawk 8888 (Is human activity causing the warming trend on Mars?)
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To: Gay State Conservative

A friend of mine worked in a glass factory (nasty business that, what with untempered sheets of glass like razors literally flying around that place!). Anyway, there was a department that was especially dangerous with minor accidents all the time. She hired tattooed people (many with records) to staff that department. Her logic? If they're not afraid to get a tattoo on their neck, they won't be afraid of a little flying glass. Now, where did all these ex-cons come from? The local government employment commission...whom you DO NOT want on your bad side. Priceless.


34 posted on 02/13/2007 1:56:43 PM PST by delphirogatio
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To: Gay State Conservative
I've never had hiring authority during my working life but if I did I'd refuse to hire anyone with any kind of criminal background...regardless of how minor and regardless of how long ago it was or how old the person was when the crime(s) was/were committed.

That may be the reason you've never had hiring authority. If a person is talented and can do the job, there is no reason to hold a minor long ago incident against them. Do that and you potentially cheat yourself and your company. I absolutely look at a persons past, but I don't automatically disqualify a good candidate. It just raises a red flag that causes me to make sure I have a satisfactory explanation.

One of the best programmers I ever hired had been arrested for assault from a fight he had in a college bar years earlier. I'd have been a fool to let that stop me from hiring this guy.

35 posted on 02/13/2007 2:18:11 PM PST by MMcC
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To: Gay State Conservative
So let's say that the roles were changed. Let's say that you yourself had stolen some bread for your family because you had no money.

You get thrown in jail and get a charge for petty theft. I know that this is far fetched and in no way am I saying that you have done this.

Lets say that a potential employer finds out. Do you want them to say no because of something like that?

There are people who have made mistakes and they are truly sorry. IMHO, they should not be turned down for a job after they have paid back society, done their time, and are truly sorry. Apparently you do. So your type of thinking will lead to more people being on government funded healthcare and having their hands stuck out like the people out of Katrina. So more taxes will come from your business and out of your paychecks because they cannot find a job.

Oh, I almost forgot. Thanks for your selfish attitude. It is people like you that help ruin this country.

36 posted on 02/13/2007 3:16:07 PM PST by ziggy_dlo (THE LAND OF THE FREE, FOUGHT FOR BY THE BRAVE!!! We Never Forget 9/11.)
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To: MMcC
If a person is talented and can do the job, there is no reason to hold a minor long ago incident against them.

My attitude goes something like this....I'm well into middle age and yet I've never been a defendant in a criminal case and have been a "respondent" in one civil case...a traffic violation that carried a maximum penalty of a $100 fine.I fought that case and it was dismissed by the judge because it had been revealed in the local paper that the police chief of the town where I was ticketed had established a secret quota of traffic tickets for his officers to write.A number of other similar cases were dismissed by the District Court which served that town.

Soooo...I figure that if I've been able to keep a completely clean criminal record in both civilian and military courts,and did so with no difficulty whatever, others can do so as well.I wouldn't expect anything of others that I haven't achieved myself.

37 posted on 02/13/2007 3:37:07 PM PST by Gay State Conservative ("The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."-Karl Marx)
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To: ziggy_dlo
If a person is talented and can do the job, there is no reason to hold a minor long ago incident against them.

That's essentially the same attitude that the ACLU takes toward the INS...a topic that your profile suggests is dear to your heart.

And although I didn't specify this in post #37,one of the things that I *distinctly* recall having been cited when I was growing up as one of the many reasons why one should avoid committing crimes was that a criminal record would make it difficult to get a job.Hearing this is one of many reasons why I chose a path in life which allows me to make the "boasts" contained in post #37.

38 posted on 02/13/2007 3:59:39 PM PST by Gay State Conservative ("The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."-Karl Marx)
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To: BigFinn

Har! Massachusetts sounds like a great place to run a business!
Get outta that place - - don't be "the last white farmer in Zimbabwe".


39 posted on 02/13/2007 4:07:09 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Gay State Conservative
I've never had hiring authority during my working life

After reading your attitude all I can say is thank goodness. Not all of us have perfect clean pasts. I have no major violations but did get charged with street racing (and a few other misdemeanors from that original charge) as a teenager. I just applied for a job and it came up. From over 18 years ago. I had completely forgotten about it. They manager asked me about it, we had a laugh over it, and I got the job. By your standard I shouldn't have gotten the job even though it has nothing to do with travel, driving, or anything of the sort.

BTW, you may want to check the bottom of your shoes when you get home. They may still be a little wet from walking on the water....

40 posted on 02/13/2007 4:09:42 PM PST by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: billbears
BTW, you may want to check the bottom of your shoes when you get home. They may still be a little wet from walking on the water....

Never having had to answer to a judge or jury in a criminal case doesn't mean that I've never had anything to confess to my parish priest.I am certainly not without sin...but I've never had to be fearful when catching sight of a police car....and police cars and courts are what we're talking about here,correct?

41 posted on 02/13/2007 4:46:36 PM PST by Gay State Conservative ("The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."-Karl Marx)
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To: Gay State Conservative
Never having had to answer to a judge or jury in a criminal case doesn't mean that I've never had anything to confess to my parish priest.I am certainly not without sin..

Ah, a double standard I see. Good enough that you be forgiven for what you deem is forgivable but you wouldn't give forgiveness for what you personally haven't faced. And interesting that you see allowance of a second chance with God but don't see the same allowance if the State convicts you of a crime, no matter how minor

but I've never had to be fearful when catching sight of a police car....and police cars and courts are what we're talking about here,correct?

Yet you're willing to doom literally tens of millions of people to unemployment because they may have done something criminal and as you say at any level. Public drunkenness as a teen at the beach on Grad Week, bouncing a check in college, and countless other examples that are considered youthful indiscretions that harm no one should be carried for the rest of their lives and prevent them from getting a job if you were in a hiring position.

Just out of curiousity, how would you handle this massive influx of unemployment that would occur. I guess that wouldn't matter huh? D#mn sinners to the State deserve what they got eh?

42 posted on 02/13/2007 5:05:43 PM PST by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: billbears
Ah, a double standard I see. Good enough that you be forgiven for what you deem is forgivable but you wouldn't give forgiveness for what you personally haven't faced. And interesting that you see allowance of a second chance with God but don't see the same allowance if the State convicts you of a crime,no matter how minor.

I have no problem accepting that God would be every bit as willing to forgive your street racing incident (given the right "circumstances") as He would any of my sins (again,given the right "circumstances").And,for the record,having worked for 20+ years in a large hospital's ER,I don't consider street racing a minor offense.I'm sure you know what I'm suggesting.

Yet you're willing to doom literally tens of millions of people to unemployment because they may have done something criminal and as you say at any level. Public drunkenness as a teen at the beach on Grad Week, bouncing a check in college, and countless other examples that are considered youthful indiscretions that harm no one...

No,*I* wouldn't doom tens of millions to anything.I haven't advocated a law that *requires* employers to take my position...nor would I support such a law.I also haven't advocated that other employers adopt my position and would not do so.

Just out of curiousity, how would you handle this massive influx of unemployment that would occur. I guess that wouldn't matter huh? D#mn sinners to the State deserve what they got eh?

"Sinners to the state"? I've never heard that phrase before.

Fact...crimes (even minor ones) have consequences.Among the possible consequences are...death...imprisonment...fines...public scorn...difficulty finding a job...and others.

And I encourage you to remember one last thing...the original post is about a new Marxist governor....*my* new Marxist governor (whose political/social/legal positions you might find "interesting") seeking to make it more difficult for employers to learn of a job applicants criminal past.

43 posted on 02/13/2007 5:47:38 PM PST by Gay State Conservative ("The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."-Karl Marx)
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To: Gay State Conservative
I have no problem accepting that God would be every bit as willing to forgive your street racing incident (given the right "circumstances") as He would any of my sins (again,given the right "circumstances")

Circumstances?!? What circumstances? Ask forgiveness and don't do it again. That's about all the 'circumstances' there are

And,for the record,having worked for 20+ years in a large hospital's ER,I don't consider street racing a minor offense.I'm sure you know what I'm suggestin

Ah yes, heard the same drivel about motorcycles for years. And I ride one of those as well.

No,*I* wouldn't doom tens of millions to anything.I haven't advocated a law that *requires* employers to take my position...nor would I support such a law

However you stated very clearly

I've never had hiring authority during my working life but if I did I'd refuse to hire anyone with any kind of criminal background...regardless of how minor and regardless of how long ago it was or how old the person was when the crime(s) was/were committed.
I take it by your statement, and the defense thereof, that you see that as a reasonable position. My point is that thank goodness no one else is taking that 'reasonable position' else we'd be a nation of unemployed.

And I encourage you to remember one last thing...the original post is about a new Marxist governor....*my* new Marxist governor (whose political/social/legal positions you might find "interesting") seeking to make it more difficult for employers to learn of a job applicants criminal past.

Not saying I agree with him because that's your governor, not mine. What happens in Massachusetts stays in Massachusetts and the same for all other states. But I do see that to be fair I would have no problem limiting the scope of a background check to a certain number of years unless said crime was a felony. People change. For employers to be able to pull up something from 10-15 years ago when a prospective employee may have been going through a bad spot, made a mistake that caused no harm, etc. and make a judgement of employment or not based on said data is ridiculous

44 posted on 02/13/2007 6:31:47 PM PST by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: billbears
I grow weary of this thread,but it give it one more shot...

Ah yes, heard the same drivel about motorcycles for years. And I ride one of those as well.

I could tell you stories.Stories involving speeding cars.Stories involving motorbikes.Stories involving pedestrians.Stories involving 15 year olds...and 85 year olds.Stories that would tear your heart out.

I take it by your statement, and the defense thereof, that you see that as a reasonable position. My point is that thank goodness no one else is taking that 'reasonable position' else we'd be a nation of unemployed.

All I can say is that you and I must travel in different circles.You seem to think that we're a country of convicted criminals whereas I'm strongly inclined to believe that my clean record,while not universal,is very common,indeed.

45 posted on 02/13/2007 7:10:45 PM PST by Gay State Conservative ("The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."-Karl Marx)
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To: billbears
I grow weary of this thread,but it give it one more shot...

Ah yes, heard the same drivel about motorcycles for years. And I ride one of those as well.

I could tell you stories.Stories involving speeding cars.Stories involving motorbikes.Stories involving pedestrians.Stories involving 15 year olds...and 85 year olds.Stories that would tear your heart out.

I take it by your statement, and the defense thereof, that you see that as a reasonable position. My point is that thank goodness no one else is taking that 'reasonable position' else we'd be a nation of unemployed.

All I can say is that you and I must travel in different circles.You seem to think that we're a country of convicted criminals whereas I'm strongly inclined to believe that my clean record,while not universal,is very common,indeed.

46 posted on 02/13/2007 7:10:47 PM PST by Gay State Conservative ("The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."-Karl Marx)
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