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Deseret News hits "ultraconservative" websites for suggesting Salt Lake shooting was jihad-motivated
JihadWatch.org ^ | 15Februrary 2007 | Robert

Posted on 02/15/2007 9:59:22 AM PST by NraFreedom

In "Vitriolic e-mails zero in on 'Muslim,'" Elaine Jarvik and Deborah Bulkeley in the Deseret Morning News (thanks to all who sent this in) do not deign to consider the possibility that the Salt Lake mall shootings were jihad-motivated. Instead, the onus is on those with the poor taste to suggest such a thing:

On ultraconservative Web sites like littlegreenfootballs.com, the story of Monday's shooting rampage at Trolley Square has been reduced to one fact: "Salt Lake City Killer Was a Muslim." "Ultraconservative" = "bigoted, racist, evil."

"The media did everything they could to avoid mentioning it, but it's confirmed today that the mass murderer who terrorized a mall in Salt Lake City was a Bosnian Muslim," reads the intro at littlegreenfootballs.com. That's simply a statement of fact. Most news stories about the shooting don't mention this.

At MichaelSavage.com, the Muslim connection is a running-banner headline. At jihadwatch.org, the story begins "Sudden Jihad syndrome? Maybe."

Maybe, i.e., possibly, not certainly. But will Elaine Jarvik and Deborah Bulkeley consider that possibility, and look at other cases in which evidence pointing in this direction has been discounted? Of course not. To do so would be "ultraconservative."

The online stories, as well as Tuesday's and Wednesday's stories in the Deseret Morning News, have resulted in a barrage of vitriolic e-mails to the News from people either angry at the paper for not mentioning the religion of shooter Sulejman Talovic in Wednesday's Web edition, or certain that because Talovic is Muslim that he must be a terrorist. See? Only angry, vitriolic people think this way, and rush to certainties where no certainties can be found. Oh, and never mind that "maybe" at Jihad Watch. Let's sweep it aside with a flood of "vitriolic emails."

There is no record that Talovic attended any of the mosques in the Salt Lake area, according to both Tarek Mosseir, a spokesman for the Islamic Society of Greater Salt Lake, or Bobby Ravish of Muslim Forum. Mosseir noted that many Bosnian Muslims are more secular than religious. "Having lived under Soviet Union rules for decades, where religious freedom was not an option, a majority of these people" are not practicing Muslims, he added. "What I hear is that he came a couple of times at most, to Eid prayers, but I can't confirm that he came."

"There is no record" that he attended. "He came a couple of times at most." Even if these men are telling the truth, this doesn't establish what Elaine Jarvik and Deborah Bulkeley want it to establish. It is unfortunately possible that he could never have gone to the mosque at all and still be jihad-motivated. Consider, for example, that an Al-Qaeda manual directs operatives to "avoid visiting famous Islamic places (mosques, libraries, Islamic fairs, etc.)." Am I suggesting that Talovic was an Al-Qaeda operative? No, I am not. I am suggesting that it is at least a possibility that someone planning a jihad attack would avoid the local mosque.

Although Salt Lake City police have not yet established a motive for the shootings, a handful of Bosnian refugees were verbally harassed at their workplaces on Wednesday, according to the Utah Consortium of Multicultural Groups. Local police report no incidents of violence against Bosnian or other refugees. Here we have the predictable shifting-of-focus which has occurred after countless jihad attacks: from Muslim-as-mass-murderer to Muslims-as-victims. Several people were shot dead in the mall, but never mind that: some Muslims were "verbally harassed"!

"Why dont (sic) you guys just come out and say this was a terrorist attack because he was MUSLIM," wrote one e-mailer to the Deseret Morning News. "There is no doubt in my mind that this young man was carrying out Islamic jihad," wrote another. And another: "Why is it that when I heard about a mall shotting (sic) I thought — Muslim? Sure enough. Are you people in Utah that clueless?" Note the "sics." The message here is that only idiots could possibly think this way.

"He was a Muslim terrorist and you know it you deceitful, cowardly liar," wrote a man with "MD, PhD" after his name. Why, how absurd! How could a right-wing Islamophobic bigot possibly be a doctor with a PhD!

"Welcome to my world," said Ibrahim Hopper, communications director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington, D.C., about the angry e-mails. "I get tons of it every day." At least we get your name right here, Mr. "Hopper." Anyway, note that Elaine Jarvik and Deborah Bulkeley show no sign whatsoever of looking into the background of Mr. Hooper's organization.

Anyway, the bottom line is this: in light of the fact that there have been several attacks similar to Talovic's committed by Muslims in the last year, as I detail here, and that in each case authorities have discounted the possibility. All I am asking is that the possibility that such attacks are motivated by the jihad ideology, even in the absence of an institutional connection to a group like Al-Qaeda, be duly considered. Is that too much to ask?


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: Utah; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: jhadi; muslim; trolleyjihadislam
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I have been watching the news coverage of the shooting two days ago at Trolley Square here in Salt Lake City. The liberals who control the “main stream” media (MSM) in this country as well as the local news outlets are all wondering why this happened. As I have seen things unfold I have been impressed with the reason why.

This shooter came to the United States at the age of nine from Bosnia. He and his family came here to find a better life. However, I have noticed the same pattern here in this local event that has repeated itself world wide.

The first thing I noticed was that this family “isolated” itself from the community, with the exception of working. A neighbor said of the shooter that he was kind of a hermit and that neighbors did not know him at all. This is what the community of Islam does when it immigrates to the West; they isolate themselves from the western culture into which they have chosen to locate.

Because of this need to isolate, these immigrants congregate into the low income areas of the West and take these areas over. The area of Salt Lake that the shooter lived in is low income and filled with gangs, drugs and so forth. This gives a Muslim an opportunity to find fault with the “wickedness” around him. Just the location that the Muslim chooses sets him up for dissatisfaction with the world around him. The isolation becomes more acute and the dissatisfaction grows; it is a vicious cycle.

As this young man grew up, he obviously spent his time of isolation reading the Qur’an. It is my opinion that the shooter found his religion and decided that he wanted to become what the Prophet Mohammad describes as the highest calling of a true believer of Islam: a jihadi; an armed fighter for Allah.

The teachings of Mohammad go on to offer to a jihadi the promise of shihad, or martyr of Allah: seventy-two untouched virgins, whose virginity is without end, as well as young boys; food and water so abundant that the water flows unceasingly in fountains. And of course this is all to be had in the “paradise” of the next life. Any war torn youth would value this reward; indeed anyone who grew up in the desert would do the same.

It is these teachings of Mohammad that allow a young Muslim to strap explosives to himself and set the explosives off without a second thought; or as was done here in Salt Lake City, allows one with all of life before him to give it all up and walk through a mall, emotionless, loading his weapon, firing and reloading only to fire again. Like so many young Muslims before him, this shooter wanted to take as many with him as he could. There is no doubt about that.

And so the “war against the infidel of the west” goes on. I find no rational reason for asking why: pattern and the cycle keeps repeating in front of our eyes. It is our responsibility to see the circle, recognize it and the threat it poses to our way of life; it is our responsibility to take actions to stop the threat and remove the cycle from our neighborhoods and country.

1 posted on 02/15/2007 9:59:31 AM PST by NraFreedom
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To: NraFreedom

I am outraged that Deseret News did not even mention FreeRepublic.com


2 posted on 02/15/2007 10:01:31 AM PST by Alouette (Learned Mother of Zion)
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To: Alouette

We need to be like Avis and Try Harder!


3 posted on 02/15/2007 10:02:53 AM PST by Constitution Day
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To: Alouette

Bosnian Muslim Massacring People in Trolley Square in Utah.



A video has become available, taken by someone hiding in a gift shop:

http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_044000331.html

A bit past midway through, does anyone else hear what sounds like "Allah-hu akbar! Allah-hu akbar!" - just after one of the cops shouts "Police"?





http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015245.php





http://www.rayra.net/5th_Columnists/Jihadists/Sudden_Jihad_Syndrome/sudden_jihad_syndrome.html




4 posted on 02/15/2007 10:03:08 AM PST by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: NraFreedom

Islamism until demonstrated otherwise.


5 posted on 02/15/2007 10:03:17 AM PST by onedoug
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To: NraFreedom

What this Islamofascist did is identical to what the doomsayers said might happen. Muslim goes to a shopping mall and commits mayhem.

You can't tell me it was just coincidence.


6 posted on 02/15/2007 10:03:27 AM PST by Brilliant
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To: NraFreedom

That the one very plausible explanation for this man's behavior is rapidly dismissed, out of hand, for a breezy "we have no explanation" tells me all I need to know. It's PC-ism.


7 posted on 02/15/2007 10:04:01 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: NraFreedom
There is no record that Talovic attended any of the mosques in the Salt Lake area, according to both Tarek Mosseir, a spokesman for the Islamic Society of Greater Salt Lake, or Bobby Ravish of Muslim Forum.

That's nice. Are local LEOS gonna take their word for it, or trust but verify?

8 posted on 02/15/2007 10:04:28 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: NraFreedom

How about the fact that if he was a Christian and had shouted "Jesus is great" or the like it would have been the first thing mentioned?


9 posted on 02/15/2007 10:05:15 AM PST by dleecomeback07 (Pitchers and catchers report February 15th)
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To: Alouette

What is so inane is that the MSM will never deal with Muslim citizens or non-citizens who shoot up the joint as possible jihadists. The point is, the PC idea that Islam is peace is malarky. Hopefully, the public will realize this and treat American Muslims on a one by one perception. Still, with the idea that Islam is not peace and has been used by over 300,000 000 million of the 1.4 billion Muslims to kill , murder, blow up, destroy , torture not only fellow Muslims but Gentiles and Jews and anybody in between who gets in their imperialist ways.


10 posted on 02/15/2007 10:06:30 AM PST by phillyfanatic
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To: Alouette
I am outraged that Deseret News did not even mention FreeRepublic.com

What are we, chopped liver?

11 posted on 02/15/2007 10:06:35 AM PST by dfwgator (The University of Florida - Championship U)
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To: Alouette

If a Christian would have gone into a mosque or a halal meat store and shot 4 or 5 people it would have been plastered all over the news as a hate crime or a 'right wing milita' born plot.......


12 posted on 02/15/2007 10:06:36 AM PST by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: NraFreedom
Truth hurts...Deal with it.


13 posted on 02/15/2007 10:08:24 AM PST by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: NraFreedom

What a dumb article. The writer doesn't even understand why "sic" is used in quoting someone.


14 posted on 02/15/2007 10:09:44 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Defeat Hillary's V'assed Left Wing Conspiracy)
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To: Vaquero
It didn't take long for the media to shift the focus from the dead infidels to the "real" victims.
15 posted on 02/15/2007 10:10:41 AM PST by Alouette (Learned Mother of Zion)
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To: Brilliant

I listened for the allah akbar, but the echo in the mall is so great I couldn't make it out.


16 posted on 02/15/2007 10:11:41 AM PST by bicyclerepair (Living in Beautiful Ft. Lauderdale)
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To: NraFreedom
It is impossible to understand the authorities and press in the United states actively downplaying that this act, and others, are the result of unassimilated Muslims that choose to live in a society they resent and hate.

The French, certainly no strangers to PC thought, openly decalare that Muslim violence in the suburbs of Paris are the result of the unassimilated immigrants clustering together in the outskirts and making no attempt to adopt the French culture. Their individual alienation is reinforced by the group and violence becomes a predictable outlet.

Hell, I know what its feel like to be unassimilated. I'm a conservative in Seattle.

17 posted on 02/15/2007 10:12:40 AM PST by HardStarboard (The Democrats are more afraid of American Victory than Defeat!)
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To: mewzilla
That's nice. Are local LEOS gonna take their word for it, or trust but verify?

Does it matter? Do we ever see anything like "there is no record that the white man who verbally harassed a black man at work attended any KKK meetings"?

18 posted on 02/15/2007 10:14:00 AM PST by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: mewzilla

"we have no explanation"

says they do in fact have an explanation, they just don't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole..unfortunately, these mass murders will continue until we as a nation stand up and decide to put a name to this..


19 posted on 02/15/2007 10:14:21 AM PST by GeorgiaDawg32 (I'm a Patriot Guard Rider..www.patriotguard.org for info..)
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To: Alouette

Being Bosnian isn't the problem... but being MUSLIM from ANYWHERE... is the root of OUR problem.


20 posted on 02/15/2007 10:14:54 AM PST by johnny7 ("We took a hell of a beating." -'Vinegar Joe' Stilwell)
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To: NraFreedom
The MSM wants to spin the massacre as an updated version of the Columbine killings in Colorado, blaming the killings on social isolation, adolescent angst, and, of course, the too ready availability of firearms. Despite the fact that former Yugoslavia was a Communist state for over 40 years, the Bosnian nationality is essentially distinguished from the Croats and the Serbs by their religion. The Bosnians and the Albanians who fought the Serbs in the 1990s received considerable assistance from their fellow Muslims in the Middle East. These Muslims of European ancestry are far from immune from the radicalism evident in the rest of the Muslim world.

However, saying that this killer was Muslim would upset the MSM lie that Islam is a "religion of peace."

21 posted on 02/15/2007 10:16:05 AM PST by Wallace T.
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To: justshutupandtakeit

'The writer doesn't understand...'sic'..."
Huh? The writer used it and used it properly.


22 posted on 02/15/2007 10:17:18 AM PST by BunkDetector
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To: NraFreedom
"Instead, the onus is on those with the poor taste to suggest such a thing:"

This simply has to stop. I outraged that our freedom of speech is being attacked by hating bigoted ultra-liberals in the media! They are trying to silence the truth!

23 posted on 02/15/2007 10:17:39 AM PST by Earthdweller (All reality is based on faith in something.)
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To: Earthdweller

I am outraged!


24 posted on 02/15/2007 10:18:42 AM PST by Earthdweller (All reality is based on faith in something.)
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To: Vaquero
http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_044000331.html

A bit past midway through, does anyone else hear what sounds like "Allah-hu akbar! Allah-hu akbar!" - just after one of the cops shouts "Police"?

I can't make it out clearly with the mall music and echo. Gonna have to take someone with better hearing then me or a sound technician to filter it.

Just last night I was saying to my mother over the phone that I thought him being Muslim was less contributing then him being an angry teenager, UNLESS (and I stated this last night) UNLESS he was shouting Alla'hu Akbar(sp) as he was shooting.

25 posted on 02/15/2007 10:22:21 AM PST by Domandred
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To: Earthdweller
I outraged that our freedom of speech is being attacked by hating bigoted ultra-liberals in the media! They are trying to silence the truth!

Regrettably, we are only seeing the beginning. Take two asprins, and come back and see me in two-and one-half years.
:(

26 posted on 02/15/2007 10:23:22 AM PST by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk)
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To: Domandred
If it is there it can be filtered out with the technology.
I don't have the expertise, but there are those that do.
27 posted on 02/15/2007 10:24:57 AM PST by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk)
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To: dleecomeback07
I have wondered the same thing. I believe if he had uttered some Christian phrase there would be the headline in every lamestream media story - "Christan Crazy Man Kills Innocent Mall Shoppers". It is just plain sickening.

Until somebody can prove otherwise I believe these are test runs. I also believe that if there was a careful study of Mall tapes you could find watchers,seeing how it went.

28 posted on 02/15/2007 10:26:49 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (So many geeks, so few circuses.)
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To: BunkDetector

The writer of the article does not understand it. The writer quoted by him does. The former makes a really dumb remark after the quote "Note the 'sics'. The message here is only those who are idiots could possibility think this way." That is NOT what the "sics" mean.

I should have been clearer that there are two writers here and only one is guilty.


29 posted on 02/15/2007 10:27:24 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Defeat Hillary's V'assed Left Wing Conspiracy)
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To: NraFreedom

When Obama was criticized by the Australian leader, he dodged the questioned and vilified and whined racism. The same here. Vilify and dodge the facts.


30 posted on 02/15/2007 10:27:36 AM PST by tkathy (Sectarian violence? Or genocidal racists? Which is a better description of islamists?)
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To: From One - Many
The silent majority may elect to keep silent in the name of tolerance but they will not have silence forced down their throats by these intolerant bigoted liars in the MSM!

Tell the truth!

31 posted on 02/15/2007 10:30:49 AM PST by Earthdweller (All reality is based on faith in something.)
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To: NraFreedom
If the shooter had been a Christian Iraq War Veteran, every article would have started:

John Smith, an Iraq War Veteran and conservative Christian, killed ...

I remember the DC sniper articles always highlighted that the adult shooter was a 'Gulf War Veteran' instead of other obvious parts of his bio.

The MSM pretty much sucks.

32 posted on 02/15/2007 10:32:52 AM PST by USArmySpouse
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To: justshutupandtakeit

Okeedokee. I see what you mean now.


33 posted on 02/15/2007 10:37:05 AM PST by BunkDetector
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To: NraFreedom
I can not remember any incident where a Muslim shot people in the USA prior to the beltway snipers. Since that time there have been a lot more shooting incidents involving people with Muslim names. Coincidence? I don't think so.
34 posted on 02/15/2007 10:42:10 AM PST by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: NraFreedom
Ajka Omerovic said she never knew her nephew to shoot firearms. Although he quit school at 16, Sulejman Talovic often attended Friday prayers at the Al-Noor mosque on 700 East in Salt Lake City, said Salih Omerovic, Ajka's cousin. Salih Omerovic said the young man stopped coming to the prayers in December, when he landed a full-time job at Aramark Uniform Services in South Salt Lake. This was from the Desertnews or the sl tribune of today, I read all the articles, and I can't recall which one I got it out of, but the claim that it's not known if he was a practicing Muslim is debunked.. He DID attend a local mosque.
35 posted on 02/15/2007 10:47:18 AM PST by Red Boots
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To: Alouette
Dear Deseret....

The obvious....
Isn't a mystery...

36 posted on 02/15/2007 10:50:06 AM PST by Wings-n-Wind (The answers remain available; Wisdom is obtained by asking all the right questions!)
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To: mewzilla
There is no record that Talovic attended any of the mosques in the Salt Lake area, according to both Tarek Mosseir, a spokesman for the Islamic Society of Greater Salt Lake, or Bobby Ravish of Muslim Forum.

How nice, but I found this in a SL Tribune article today.

Although he quit school at 16, Sulejman Talovic often attended Friday prayers at the Al-Noor mosque on 700 East in Salt Lake City, said Salih Omerovic, Ajka's cousin. Salih Omerovic said the young man stopped coming to the prayers in December, when he landed a full-time job at Aramark Uniform Services in South Salt Lake.

I guess his aunt hadn't heard the offical line from the mosque.

37 posted on 02/15/2007 10:50:24 AM PST by Red Boots
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To: Americanexpat
And remember....NOONE was harming the local Muslims when this happened! Yet CAIR has the nerve to chastise mainstream America for being upset and sending them emails!

I am sick and tired of being told to shut up by these people. When will they come to the defense of ALL of the people in this country that they supposedly claim as their own?

38 posted on 02/15/2007 10:52:19 AM PST by Earthdweller (All reality is based on faith in something.)
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To: Vaquero; NraFreedom
A bit past midway through, does anyone else hear what sounds like "Allah-hu akbar! Allah-hu akbar!" - just after one of the cops shouts "Police"?

Could be, but I'm not sure.
In another tape there -- Barrett Dodds was above the shooter and helping the Ogden officer locate the shooter below on the first floor. He said that "the guy was having fun, smiling as he went." The reporter then said: "You're not the only one that's mentioned that."

Islamic POS!

39 posted on 02/15/2007 10:52:23 AM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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placemark


40 posted on 02/15/2007 10:52:29 AM PST by freeperfromnj
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To: Wallace T.

I think the ones who are trying to deflect attention from a possible religious explanation -- and I'm not saying this IS the explanation -- by bringing up Columbine are missing the point.

If I recall correctly, Harris and Kebold were dabblers in the Goth culture, which, like radical Islam, also devalues human life and glorifies death. Ideas have consequences.

If this young man had been taught that non-Muslim Americans were the equivalent of pigs and monkeys, that the ultimate fate of infidels is death, and that by dying in the act of Jihad he would get him 72 virgins for eternity, then, it seems to me, that is a relevant consideration in the search for his "motive."


41 posted on 02/15/2007 10:52:41 AM PST by lady lawyer
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To: Americanexpat

How about that entire familly that was hacked up in Buffalo or near Buffalo a couple years back? That was done by a muslim, but the media killed that as fast as possible.


42 posted on 02/15/2007 10:54:17 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Earthdweller

CAIR getting unfriendly emails=random shoppers shot dead in a mall.

I am so sick of these asshats.


43 posted on 02/15/2007 10:54:52 AM PST by Alouette (Learned Mother of Zion)
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To: Brilliant
The first thing out of my mouth when I heard he was a Bosnian, was 'bet he's a Muslim'
44 posted on 02/15/2007 10:58:39 AM PST by SMARTY ("Stay together, pay the soldiers and forget everything else." Lucius Septimus Severus)
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To: brityank; Vaquero; NraFreedom



Link to video in #39:


http://www.kutv.com/video/?id=23425@kutv.dayport.com">http://www.kutv.com/video/?id=23425@kutv.dayport.com


45 posted on 02/15/2007 11:00:10 AM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: lady lawyer

There was also a shooting in Montreal years back. (not this most recent one, which seems to be connected to Goth cult)
Lepine? (not his real muslim name) Canadian media completely ignored the Muslim connection, the fact that his father was a strict Muslim, hated women. This kid, thinking it was women at the Montreal University who were holding up his education, went nuts and shot a bunch of women, bringing about the liberal gun registry.

They need to register illegal muslims in Canada, not legal guns.


46 posted on 02/15/2007 11:01:30 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: brityank; Vaquero; NraFreedom




REVISED LINK:


http://kutv.com/video/?id=23425@kutv.dayport.com">http://kutv.com/video/?id=23425@kutv.dayport.com


47 posted on 02/15/2007 11:03:16 AM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: lady lawyer

Plus there are a number of "Honor killings" every year which are never reported as such.


48 posted on 02/15/2007 11:03:19 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: justshutupandtakeit

"The writer of the article does not understand it. The writer quoted by him does. The former makes a really dumb remark after the quote "Note the 'sics'. The message here is only those who are idiots could possibility think this way." That is NOT what the "sics" mean."

You're right. This part of the article is just plain dumb because it shows either that the author is twisting passages to suit his agenda or he just doesn't understand why the "sics" were used the way they were.


49 posted on 02/15/2007 11:04:23 AM PST by gracesdad
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To: SMARTY

The comment in the article that "Bosnian muslims are mostly secular" is a bunch of BS as well. They are every bit as radical as the rest. They've destroyed cenruries old orthadox monastaries, and use other churches -abandoned because of the fighting- as public urnals to prove how "secular" they are.


50 posted on 02/15/2007 11:07:43 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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