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Why Kosovo should become the 33rd member - and Serbia the 34th
The Guardian ^ | February 15, 2007 | Timothy Garton Ash

Posted on 02/25/2007 8:25:23 AM PST by canuck_conservative

In front of me as I write there sits a piece of Kosovo. It's a jagged lump, about three centimetres high, off-white with some glinting, yellowy metallic bits embedded in it. It was given to me by the late Ibrahim Rugova, long-time leader of the Albanian Kosovans' non-violent movement for independence and a passionate mineralogist. I also have before me my own photos of Kosovo's armed conflict, attempted genocide, liberation and international occupation in the last three years of Europe's bloody last century. The bombed, machine-gunned and looted villages, mosques and churches, fresh blood staining white snow, a dispossessed woodcutter called Selim Moriqi hawking cigarettes ("Monte Carlo") from a wheelbarrow, a victim's bare feet poking out of a body bag. Kosovo is many things to many people. The cradle of Serbianness. The cradle of Albanianness. The place where Slobodan Milosevic began his ascent to infamy. The place where the west intervened to defend Muslims against Christians, atoning for its sins of omission in Bosnia. Nato's first shooting war. Tony Blair's finest hour - for it was the British prime minister who led the way in committing ground troops to reverse Milosevic's ethnic rout. ("Toni Bler ... thank you" says a Pristina graffito on another of my photos, alongside "God Save The Quin".) The location of some of the most beautiful monasteries on earth, now enduring as isolated Serbian Orthodox enclaves. Tell me your Kosovo and I will tell you who you are. Whatever else it is or was, Kosovo is today a small but vital challenge to the international community in general and the EU in particular. Kosovo has been in limbo for more than seven years, since the Nato liberation/occupation was converted into a UN protectorate by security council resolution 1244. It can't go on like this.

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: freedom; genocide; independence; kosovo; massacres; selfdetermination; serbia
Parts of the Balkans really need to get beyond the petty "tribal politics" that has wasted so much of their energy recently. It really kind of sad, to see countries around them industrious and thriving, while they continue to obsess about, and devote all their energies to, ancient hatreds. Time to move into the future.
1 posted on 02/25/2007 8:25:27 AM PST by canuck_conservative
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To: canuck_conservative

A large part of the Ahtisaari plan is devoted to securing the rights of the remaining Serb minority in Kosovo. Serb communities would have extraordinarily far-reaching autonomy, including the maintenance of financial ties with Belgrade and their own educational curricula, while their beautiful monasteries would be surrounded by special protection zones. It's a complicated, messy compromise, sure to leave everyone unhappy - which is the best one can hope for in the circumstances.

Sorry Canuck, that is utter Bullshiite, the international community has failed completely so far in protecting anything in Kosovo except fr Albanian killers and Church burners, why should such neutered wussies be trusted now to protect so much as a little old ladies milk cow?

special Protection Zones?

Funny, weren't the same things said back in 2000? And what happened? Some 300 churches have been burned and Kosovo has been ethnically cleansed to the point that any referendum is a pathetic excercise in self delusion on the part of those who put any stock into there outcomes.

If you want to rob Kosovo out of Serbia, fine, but DO spare the trite diplodunk nonsense that relies on past failure to try and say that they will fail even more but to there will be extraodinary rights

That is a case of pissing on folk's legs and telling them that it is raining.....


2 posted on 02/25/2007 8:37:39 AM PST by padre35 (I am from the "let's stop eating our own" wing of the Republican Party)
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To: canuck_conservative

I was planning to post about how demographics mean that the countries with petty tribal politics are likely to inherit those neighbors which are "industrious and thriving." Unfortunately, on looking up the numbers they didn't entirely support my theory. :)

Total fertility rates in some relevant countries. 2.1 is replacement level. Below that the disappearance of the population is only a matter of time.

Italy 1.28
Spain 1.28
Greece 1.24
Austria 1.36

Serbia 1.78
Kossovo NA
Bosnia 1.22
Albania 2.03 (I was quite surprised this low)

Perhaps we need to start discussing the implications of the "population implosion" more.


3 posted on 02/25/2007 8:39:58 AM PST by Sherman Logan (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.)
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To: Sherman Logan

And Croatia. Total fertility rate 1.4.


4 posted on 02/25/2007 8:41:40 AM PST by Sherman Logan (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.)
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To: canuck_conservative

If the EU were pressuring Spain to give independence to the Basque region and Catalonia on the argument that they'd all still be EU members, and calling for devolution of Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland on the same argument, this might not sound like a cheap attempt to paper over the theft of Serbia's spiritual and historic heartland to give it to Muslim illegal immigrants.


5 posted on 02/25/2007 8:52:05 AM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: canuck_conservative
"Why Kosovo should become the 33rd member - and Serbia the 34th"

Why is the loony left Guardian not calling for the Independence of Scotland and Northern Ireland which the British grabbed by force, but is so eager to call for the independence of Islamic, terrorist KLA (Kosovo Liberation Front) backed Kosovo?
6 posted on 02/25/2007 9:11:21 AM PST by ShawTaylor
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To: canuck_conservative

Here in the real world, it's not that easy at all.
The countries around them are decadent and moving into a future that is uncertain, to say the least. The complete lack of "tribal politics" means that some of them will be majority Muslim in the not so distant future.


7 posted on 02/25/2007 10:14:35 AM PST by jordan8
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To: canuck_conservative; ninenot; sittnick; steve50; Hegemony Cricket; Cicero; GarySpFc; Wolfie; ...
Kosovo is many things to many people. The cradle of Serbianness. The cradle of Albanianness.

Kosovo "the cradle of Albanianness"? What a jerk!

8 posted on 02/25/2007 3:31:17 PM PST by A. Pole (Condoleezza Rice: "Kosovo is a precedent for nothing, which is a very important point to make")
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To: A. Pole
No idea if it's the cradle of "Albanianess", but the first permanent settlements in the Balkans and Italy (outside of Bulgaria and Greece) were by people who seem to have been ancestral to the Albanians.

Other tribes of Indo-Europeans came later.

However, that happened in ancient pre-literate times and doesn't concern us today.

9 posted on 02/25/2007 3:34:59 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: canuck_conservative

What ancient hatreds? I don't consider the 20th century ancient history. Do you?


10 posted on 02/25/2007 3:37:29 PM PST by Banat (DEO + REGI + PATRIAE | In hoc signo vinces | "The truth always surfaces...drowned.")
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To: canuck_conservative
Lucky for you that I'm on diet so I have nothing to vomit right now.
Please stand by after lunch tomorrow.
11 posted on 02/25/2007 3:42:49 PM PST by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: A. Pole; kronos77; canuck_conservative; ninenot; sittnick; steve50; Hegemony Cricket; Cicero; ...

The fate of Christian Orthodoxy under NATO protection in the "cradle of Albanianess"!


12 posted on 02/25/2007 3:59:57 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis

Funny thing how "cradle of Albanianess" is not in ALBANIA but in totaly different country!

Like "Cradle of Franchnesness is in Vladivostok..."

Oh, I got it!
Its a nazi-talk, like Hitler stated on munerous occasions that "cradle of Arians" is in Tibet!

P.S.
First time I even heard of "Albanianessnessnesnsness.".... or whatever.


13 posted on 02/25/2007 4:37:00 PM PST by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: The_Reader_David

And it's only a matter of time before the illegal immigrants in the Southwest make a claim to their "traditional homeland" of Aztlan in the same manner that the Albanian Moslem illegal immigrants laid claim to Kosovo.


14 posted on 02/25/2007 5:17:04 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: canuck_conservative; Kolokotronis; The_Reader_David; FormerLib; kronos77; Bokababe
Well, here we have the EU saying to Serbia: "Give up Kosovo, and we'll let you into the EU. But we'll let 'independent Kosovo' in first."

It seems to me that the bogus EU is tempting Serbia by offering her what is not the EU's to give. Just like the devil tempting our Lord in the Gospel for today!!!!

15 posted on 02/25/2007 8:18:21 PM PST by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: Hoplite

Whatever the merits, this is an extraordinary well written piece. The high brow Brit papers and mags really have the best writers in the English language typically, they just do.


16 posted on 02/25/2007 8:23:05 PM PST by Torie (The real facts can sometimes be inconvenient things)
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To: Honorary Serb

The EU is about as generous to Serbia in spirit, as Lincoln was about the rebel states, bind up the wounds, no malice, etc. I know you don't believe that, and well never believe that. You are imprisoned by your own sectarian demons. Sad.


17 posted on 02/25/2007 8:25:33 PM PST by Torie (The real facts can sometimes be inconvenient things)
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To: Torie; Honorary Serb
>>>>>The EU is about as generous to Serbia in spirit, as Lincoln was about the rebel states, bind up the wounds, no malice, etc. I know you don't believe that, and well never believe that. You are imprisoned by your own sectarian demons. Sad.<<<<<

The generousness of EU towards Serbia can be seen in a way how EU deals with Serbia's Kosovo province. Deeds, not words.

The Serb houses and religious srines destroyed by Albaninan terrrorists in 2004 have not been repaired, regardless of what EU promissed.

The "bind up the wounds" can be seen in the new wounds EU creates in Serbia. EU blackmails Serbia with arrest of Karadzic and Mladic although they know too well that neither Karadzic nor Mladic are in Serbia nor have to do anything with Serbia's talks with EU.

Serbia is Europe, albeit not EU.

I am sure that if Serbia took an agressive stance and declared "we do not want to became a part of EU scam" EU will be even firmer and say "you will, you will"

Generousness and EU are oximoron if mentioned in the same sentence.

18 posted on 02/25/2007 11:16:50 PM PST by DTA (Mr. President, Condy is asleep at the wheel !)
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To: canuck_conservative

Yes, and the movement to the future would be for their productive past to be reinstituted with the Serbs coming back in and bringing prosperity back to Kosovo. Especially after NATO, Illegally entered, bombed them in the the early 19th century, killing both Albanians and Serbs, and the UN raping them for almost every penny allowing Al Qaeday full reign, allowing the Mafia to take political positions and murder witnesses for trial, murdering Serbs at will since 1999. Once the UN finally pulls its claws out after they get their little hinnies spanked by the Albanian Mafia and terrorist, plus Al Qaeda that has been living there since day one......the Serbs will clean up a cess pool left by the international community..........making life better for the Albanians and Serbs. Unless we once again fabricate and lie as Clinton starting in Bosnia.......


19 posted on 02/26/2007 4:54:16 AM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Torie; DTA

The Union was in fact NOT generous to the former Confederate states, no matter what Lincoln (who was assassinated soon after making that statement) said!!! Remember the harsh Congressional "Reconstruction"?

And since Serbia never succeded from anything, the anaology breaks down very fast.

What "sectarian demons"? My American ones, my Confederate ones or my orthodox Christian ones? I don't think there are any, or at least any that affect my views on Serbian issues.


20 posted on 02/26/2007 7:37:05 AM PST by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: Honorary Serb; Torie

He must think you are an ethnic Serb who feels honored or something; you need to explain your screen name clearly to him.


21 posted on 02/26/2007 7:49:42 AM PST by joan
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To: DTA

My, my, what an article, and from a double-barrelled name to boot.

The esteemed writer somehow forgot to mention any of the ethnic groups.

All of the dozen or so ethnic groups supported the Serbs.

In addition, where is the mention of the loyalist Kosovo Albanians? Mostly Catholic, they were slaughtered in their hundreds by the KLA.

Ahhh! Poor upper class twit, Timothy Garon Ash, aka Nigel Incubator-Jones, obviously didn't prep well enough. Matron won't be happy

http://www.jumpstation.ca/recroom/comedy/python/twit.html


22 posted on 02/26/2007 4:19:59 PM PST by Barnsleys Beck
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To: Barnsleys Beck

And no mention - by Timothy Garton Ash - of the Kosovo Albanians trying to sell Semtex, shoulder launched AA missiles, anti tank mines and enough ammo for a small army, to the Real IRA.

Yes, the Real IRA.

Naughty Gervaise Brook-Hampster.

http://www.jumpstation.ca/recroom/comedy/python/twit.html

I do hope he's not supporting the rewarding of terrorists.

Matron will be upset.


23 posted on 02/26/2007 5:11:51 PM PST by Barnsleys Beck
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