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Hatfill Settles $10M Libel Lawsuit
The New York Sun ^ | February 27, 2007 | Josh Gerstein

Posted on 02/27/2007 8:58:30 AM PST by EdLake

Hatfill Settles $10M Libel Lawsuit

By JOSH GERSTEIN Staff Reporter of the Sun

February 27, 2007 A former Army scientist named by investigators as a "person of interest" in the 2001 anthrax attacks, Dr. Steven Hatfill, has settled his $10 million libel suit against Vanity Fair and Reader's Digest after the two magazines agreed to retract any implication that the bioweapons specialist was behind the deadly anthrax mailings.

A statement issued today by a lawyer for Dr. Hatfill, Hassan Zavareei, said the case "has now been resolved to the mutual satisfaction of all the parties." He did not indicate whether any money changed hands.

A spokeswoman for Reader's Digest, Ellen Morgenstern, confirmed the settlement, but she would not elaborate. "All I can tell you is we're very satisfied with the results. I can't get into any detail," she said. A call seeking comment from Vanity Fair's parent company, Condé Nast Publications, was not immediately returned.

(Excerpt) Read more at nysun.com ...


TOPICS: Anthrax Scare; Crime/Corruption; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: anthrax; antraz; hatfill
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To: EdLake
For you this has become a mystery wrapped inside a riddle wrapped inside an enigma. You are not able to investigate terrorist cells, so you are investigating what you can. And because you can only investigate US citizens with easily verifiable jobs, you came up with the answer you did.

What good are a few random dead people if they are not able to serve as a warning? A handful of people dropping over dead would not have created any terror. They could have died for any number of reasons. But, if you tell people that anthrax is being sent through the mail, that causes terror.

Central New Jersey has about 200 labs capable of producing the attack anthrax. Muslims undoubtedly work in some of those labs.

So, your theory is that because a few muslims in New Jersey had access to anthrax..... those letters must have been sent by an evil Republican who wanted warn us about those muslims by sending letters with anthrax through the mail. How cleaver of that guy.

Here's what happened. Al-Qaeda sent the letters because, well, they like to kill people and cause terror. They sent letters to Democrats because they wanted to create division within the United States. In all honesty, it worked way better than they could have ever hoped for because it helped lead to the 911 "truthers" which in turn led to anti-American feelings throughout the entire world. Al-Qaeda warned about the anthrax for no other reason than to cause terror. Any further analysis of the letters for hidden meaning is pointless because the terrorists who wrote them are complete psychos.

51 posted on 02/28/2007 12:03:58 PM PST by faq
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To: Kenny Bunk

Avis est verbum

Avis, avis, avis...


52 posted on 02/28/2007 1:18:50 PM PST by Shermy
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To: JB in Whitefish
The list of suspects CAN'T be very long, given the nature of the goods involved and the limited access to such things.

If you're talking about the fact that it was the Ames strain used, then I'm afraid that you're going by old and outdated information that was never really true in the first place.

Even the liberal government-media complex fairly recently admitted that the Ames strain was available pretty much all over the world. The early notions that it had to be stolen by the perp directly from Ft.Detrick never had even an ounce of validity.

53 posted on 02/28/2007 2:05:34 PM PST by jpl
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To: Shermy

Avis in locus secundo. Verbum argentum. Silentium aureum.
De infidelibus, minus locutus melior.


54 posted on 02/28/2007 2:07:47 PM PST by Kenny Bunk (Don't get excited. It is simply our turn in history to cut Islam back..)
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To: faq
You are not able to investigate terrorist cells, so you are investigating what you can.

Actually, I'm not investigating anything. I'm an analyst, not an investigator. I collect FACTS and fit them together the way that best explains ALL the facts. "Best" means the way that doesn't defy physics or psychology or logic.

So, your theory is that because a few muslims in New Jersey had access to anthrax..... those letters must have been sent by an evil Republican who wanted warn us about those muslims by sending letters with anthrax through the mail. How cleaver of that guy.

You can twist things to fit your beliefs all you want, but it just makes you look devious and ignorant. I've collected and analyzed ALL the information I could find, so even you should be able to see I'm not basing my findings on just one fact or distorted belief.

Here's what happened. Al-Qaeda sent the letters because, well, they like to kill people and cause terror.

Then why don't you explain to us all why they sent MEDICAL ADVICE on how to prevent being harmed by some future attack!?

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

55 posted on 02/28/2007 2:27:35 PM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake
Then why don't you explain to us all why they sent MEDICAL ADVICE on how to prevent being harmed by some future attack!?

I DID. What good are random dead people if no one knows that it was an intentional terrorist attack!?

56 posted on 02/28/2007 3:28:35 PM PST by faq
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To: jpl

The stuff didn't magically "purify" itself.


57 posted on 02/28/2007 10:58:20 PM PST by JB in Whitefish
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To: faq
What good are random dead people if no one knows that it was an intentional terrorist attack!?

That makes no sense. The letters were sent to specific people. There was no random choice of victims. And NO ONE knows that it WAS an "intentional terrorist attack". It was initially assumed so by almost everyone, but the facts quickly showed that it almost certainly wasn't from Iraq or al Qaeda. The attacker took many precautions to avoid killing people.

If you are going to rationalize explanations to fit things to your beliefs, the explanations should make SOME sense.

Why did the culprit use the pharmaceutical fold to avoid any spillage en route? Why did he tape the letters shut in an attempt to avoid any spillage en route?

And, if the letters were sent by Muslim terrorists, why did they create a deliberately false return address on the Senate letters? Would Muslim terrorists have been concerned if a letter filled with anthrax was returned to a REAL school?

And why did they send a relatively crude powder in the first letters to the media and a very refined powder in the second batch of letters to the two senators?

And where do you believe these powders were made? NBC news has reported that the powders were made in the Northeastern U.S. How do you rationalize that?

Although only a few grams of anthrax were used in the attacks, it was enough to kill hundreds or even thousands of people if the method of distribution had been different. Yet you want people to believe these terrorist were kind and gentle and sent medical advice in a WARNING and took all sorts of precautions to avoid hurting anyone? Really? Can't you see how totally ABSURD that belief is?

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

58 posted on 03/01/2007 7:41:25 AM PST by EdLake
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To: JB in Whitefish
The stuff didn't magically "purify" itself

Has anyone said it did?

The purified powder in the Senate letters was made the way insecticides are made. It was NOT made the way bioweapons are made. Any expert in making insecticide or anti-fungal powders out of Bacillus thuringiensis or Bacillus globigii would know how to make the powder found in the Senate letters.

TENS OF THOUSANDS of people know HOW to make such powders. The number of potential suspects, however, is reduced by the other factors I gave: unrestricted access to lab equipment, access to the Ames strain, etc.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

59 posted on 03/01/2007 7:52:11 AM PST by EdLake
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To: All
Both the attacks of 9/11 and the anthrax attacks had the
same goals and followed the same formula. To create fear
and uncertainty as well as causing damage to the economy.

"We can hit you where you live and disrupt your lifestyle".
It was also a means of getting our attention and exacting
some revenge.

In both cases, the terrorists used the system against
itself.
Terrorists were trained and a deadly bug was cultured.
The vessels were chosen as airline tickets were purchased
and postage paid envelopes were obtained. The terrorists
boarded fuel laden planes and the anthrax was loaded into
the envelopes. The jet aircrafts took off and the envelopes
were placed in the drop box. The system was now the
delivery means for terror. The only difference was that
the cargo was now perverse.

Four planes are only a small portion of our national fleet,
but oh, what an incredible amount of damage they caused.
A few grams of anthrax created a tremendous amount of
havoc through out the system. Clean up and readjustments
are still on going and will be with us for years to come.

Daschle and Leahy were not chosen because they were liberal
Democrats. The were chosen because they were prominent
AMERICAN Senators.

News agencies were selected because the senders saw them
as agents that disseminated pro israeli-anti Muslim
propaganda. And of course they are high profile targets.
AMI may very well have been hit because of the demeaning
articles they had published about Bin Laden.

Medical advice was not the intention of "TAKE PENICILIN
NOW". Much like "YOU DIE NOW", it was a way to instantly
laugh in the face of someone you have just harmed. And
yes, the letters were meant to draw attention to the
mailings. They wanted it known that any damage was caused
by the same "9-11-01" group. Yes, "THIS IS NEXT".

....JJ61
60 posted on 03/01/2007 7:58:29 AM PST by JerseyJohn61 (Better Late Than Never.......sometimes over lapping is worth the effort....)
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To: EdLake

"The purified powder in the Senate letters was made the way insecticides are made. It was NOT made the way bioweapons are made. Any expert in making insecticide or anti-fungal powders out of Bacillus thuringiensis or Bacillus globigii would know how to make the powder found in the Senate letters."

yep, that there BG is some real nice stuff...[IF you believe everything the government tells you]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=BG%2C+%22project+shad%22%2C+fact+sheet&btnG=Google+Search

I'm just a tad skeptical when it comes to the "coulda - shoulda - woulda" approach to "research"....that's all.


61 posted on 03/01/2007 8:30:08 AM PST by JB in Whitefish
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To: EdLake
Mr Lake,
As always I respect you for the amazing amount of work you
have done. Your compilation of facts and information in this
case are unparalleled. I am a daily regular at AI.

However, if indeed the anthrax was brewed up in the north-
east U.S., I find that no more surprising than the
hijackers receiving their flight training in Florida.
Both attacks were of foreign origin, but they became
operational here domestically. The were both MADE IN THE
USA.

We were hit with a domestic bacteria just as we were smacked
with our own aircraft. By our own means. They just twisted
the contents of those systems. Both the planes and the missives began their "trips" from within our borders and not from some foreign shore....JJ61
62 posted on 03/01/2007 8:41:31 AM PST by JerseyJohn61 (Better Late Than Never.......sometimes over lapping is worth the effort....)
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To: JerseyJohn61

BUMP


63 posted on 03/01/2007 8:43:30 AM PST by Dante3
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To: JerseyJohn61

GOOD SCENARIO OVERALL, HOWEVER:

" Terrorists were trained and a deadly bug was cultured.
The vessels were chosen as airline tickets were purchased
and postage paid envelopes were obtained. The terrorists
boarded fuel laden planes and the anthrax was loaded into
the envelopes. The jet aircrafts took off and the envelopes
were placed in the drop box. The system was now the
delivery means for terror. The only difference was that
the cargo was now perverse."

We diverge here. My thoughts on the matter is that the two parties were NOT working in concert [Thank GOD] and could have produced MUCH more dramatic results if they had been.

Here's a few of my presumptions, for which I will no doubt be attacked by folks to whom this reply is NOT intended....

[experts gotta spurt, you know]

1. The "group" performing the anthrax attacks could be as small as ONE person. No need for backup to mail a few letters.

2. The attacks happened more or less sequentially from Florida to New England.

3. Outside of the manufacture of such substances, the attacks WERE diabolical...but nonetheless, AMATEURISH.

4. The handwriting samples look mighty similar.

5. It's not just foreigners who would have a chip on their shoulder regarding the U.S. Government, but you'd have to have a pretty extreme gripe to kill innocent bystanders just to send a message.

None of this "requires" foreign nationals.

My THEORY is that someone used the 9-11 hubbub to make it APPEAR as if the two incidents were linked....and the attacks would have been perpetrated by the same nutcase anyway....just handy timing. The MAIN reason I'm contending that it was not a PURELY "terrorist" attack is that it could have been carried out in a WAY more effective manner for very little added "cost" or preparation and planning.

I'm NOT going to speculate publicly on HOW this could have been accomplished...as I do NOT want to give any other maniacs any "good ideas".....nor should you.

Let's just say I've thought long and hard about this and I've heard NOTHING from the start to now that precludes a disgruntled American, probably in the employ of the government, with something to "prove"...including their own cleverness...who, for now, has GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT.

Furthermore, REAL terrorist groups invariably CLAIM RESPONSIBILITY for the attacks...sometimes several at once...and to MY knowledge, no such message has ever emerged. No, this is someone who means to evade capture by not becoming known.

In EVERY case of 'sudden jihad syndrome' whining hereabouts there is a KNOWN perpetrator with a KNOWN agenda.

THIS act was meant to "terrify" by its mysterious origins.

A LOT of serial killers have been caught because they wanted the NOTORIETY and EGO BOOST from showing how they could "outsmart" the law enforcement personnel.

One MORE scenario is a possibility which is not being discussed....the perpetrator may have ALREADY been found and "nullified"...in which case, we're NEVER going to hear the truth....the government could be banking on the eventuality of flagging interest to achieve a "cover up". The purpose in this case would be to SAVE FACE....[and it's not like that has never been done before]


Hmmm.....


64 posted on 03/01/2007 8:53:10 AM PST by JB in Whitefish
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To: JerseyJohn61
However, if indeed the anthrax was brewed up in the north- east U.S., I find that no more surprising than the hijackers receiving their flight training in Florida.

And I suppose you don't find it surprising that the authorities knew within a few days after 9/11 that the terrorists had taken flight training in Florida. They had all the records and eyewitness testimony.

And you don't find it "surprising" that FIVE AND A HALF YEARS LATER and the authorities have found NO evidence that al Qaeda was behind the anthrax attacks. In fact, ALL the evidence seems to dispute such a belief.

You can BELIEVE that al Qaeda was behind the anthrax attacks, but it is just a BELIEF that goes contrary to all the facts.

You can see from these discussions that some people BEGIN WITH A BELIEF and then they rationalize everything to fit that BELIEF. They can even rationalize that al Qaeda would take precautions to avoid harming Americans and would not follow with another attack even after al Qaeda members were hunted down and killed.

It just goes to show that people can rationize anything to suit their needs and beliefs.

But it has nothing to do with what really happened.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

65 posted on 03/01/2007 9:02:45 AM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake
Mr Lake,
your statements of precautionary actions taken, involving
pharmaceutical folds and false return addresses, are indeed
deductions based on facts, yet they are nothing more than
assumptions.

This entire case will boil down to the notion of thinking
long and thinking wrong. The FBI biggest mistake was
becoming fixated on the "Super Patriot" theory, way
back in October of '01....JJ61
66 posted on 03/01/2007 9:21:20 AM PST by JerseyJohn61 (Better Late Than Never.......sometimes over lapping is worth the effort....)
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To: JB in Whitefish
One MORE scenario is a possibility which is not being discussed....the perpetrator may have ALREADY been found and "nullified"...in which case, we're NEVER going to hear the truth....the government could be banking on the eventuality of flagging interest to achieve a "cover up". The purpose in this case would be to SAVE FACE....[and it's not like that has never been done before]

How many thousands of people would have to be involved in this "cover up"? How many government agencies? How do they recruit people for this vast conspiracy?

Do you really believe that every single person they asked to participate in this "cover up" went along with it and NO ONE blew the whistle? Or do you think the CIA's ninja warriors dropped from black helicopters and "nullified" everyone who even thought about blowing the whistle? Where did they recruit the ninja warriors who were willing to kill innocent Americans just for speaking the truth?

Why is it so hard to believe that some scientist could take precautions when sending out these letters and create a situation where it is REALLY difficult to accumulate enough SOLID evidence to convict him in court?

The whole new science of "Microbial Forensics" was created starting in Sepember of 2002 to develop bioforensic evidence which CAN be used in court.

The FACTS seem to clearly indicate that the FBI knows who sent the anthrax letters, but they cannot arrest that person until they have a SOLID case to take to court. To arrest a respected scientist (who will undoubtedly plead innocent) and fail to convict would be a major disaster for the Department of Justice, bigger than ANYTHING in the past. They'd never hear the end of it.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

67 posted on 03/01/2007 9:21:49 AM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake

You are calling the obvious explanation ABSURD and then come back with (as far as I can tell although I'm not entirely sure) a theory about some right-wing Islamophobic neocon who wanted to start a war and get the Patriot Act passed. And NO ONE knows that it WAS NOT an "intentional terrorist attack". And bad choice of words on your part anyway since mailing anthrax is by definition an "intentional terrorist attack" no matter who sent it or what the motive was.

What was the letter supposed to say? Something like: "Ha Ha. Enclosed you will find a white powder and you will soon DIE! PS. Do not go to the hospital."

And why would your American-born middle-aged Republican with an interest in politics and a degree in chemistry assume that Senator Daschle would open his own mail? Was there any real chance that he would have actually killed the Senator? Could the purpose of that letter have been to cause terror?


68 posted on 03/01/2007 9:27:25 AM PST by faq
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To: JB in Whitefish
Compartmentalization. A standard Al Qaeda procedure.
Possibly only one mailer(at least for the NYC and DC
letters), and perhaps just a few in the production
and handling of the anthrax. Those involved could
even be back in their homelands as we speak....JJ61
69 posted on 03/01/2007 9:29:26 AM PST by JerseyJohn61 (Better Late Than Never.......sometimes over lapping is worth the effort....)
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To: EdLake

The FBI seemed pretty certain in the Summer of '02 that
they had the perpetrator then. The term "Person of Interest"
was coin at that juncture. The litigation from that
statement will be reverberating for years to comes....JJ61


70 posted on 03/01/2007 9:34:32 AM PST by JerseyJohn61 (Better Late Than Never.......sometimes over lapping is worth the effort....)
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To: EdLake

Take a breath.....

"How many thousands of people would have to be involved in this "cover up"? "

ONE...with a silencer....and one to authorize the SILENCE.

Otherwise, "nullify" COULD mean "captured and held"...

Do YOU personally "know" how many individuals have been apprehended by PATRIOT Act measures...???....I DON'T.

But, THANK YOU for going hyperbolic nonetheless.

~~~~~~~~

Do you REALLY "think" there is NO possibility of covert anti-terrorist actions being taken here on our shores...???

~~~~~~~~

Or for THAT matter that the U.S. government would 'NEVER' consider expending a few personnel to achieve their goals...???

Bwaaaaahahahaahhaahahhohohohoheeheehee....

No, I'm NOT a "9-11 truther".

Just a plain ol' Navy veteran with some reading comprehension skills:

http://www1.va.gov/SHAD/

Now, I ask YOU....regarding my reference...

"How many thousands of people would have to be involved in this "cover up"? How many government agencies? How do they recruit people for this vast conspiracy?

Do you really believe that every single person they asked to participate in this "cover up" went along with it and NO ONE blew the whistle?"

No doubt YOU were aware of this situation for DECADES...and I guess the REST of us must bow to your ego....???

OH, and by the way...I CAN answer those questions you so handily formulated...but, it's your move.


71 posted on 03/01/2007 9:37:12 AM PST by JB in Whitefish
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To: JerseyJohn61

I agree with your postulation, but it still doesn't preclude an "insider" doing the deed.

I'm very famiiiar with 'compartmentalization' and its long term effectiveness in keeping a secret.


72 posted on 03/01/2007 9:44:33 AM PST by JB in Whitefish
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To: faq
You are calling the obvious explanation ABSURD and then come back with (as far as I can tell although I'm not entirely sure) a theory about some right-wing Islamophobic neocon who wanted to start a war and get the Patriot Act passed.

If you have to distort and twist things to make a point, your point becomes that you have to distort and twist things in order to make a point. I.e., you can't effectively respond without distorting facts.

And why would your American-born middle-aged Republican with an interest in politics and a degree in chemistry assume that Senator Daschle would open his own mail? Was there any real chance that he would have actually killed the Senator? Could the purpose of that letter have been to cause terror?

I don't know that he has an interest in politics. How did you dream that up?

I don't know that he has a degree in chemistry. I would assume that he has a degree in microbiology.

And why are you so hung up on the idea that the Senators don't open up their own mail? What difference does that make? The anthrax mailer clearly wasn't intending to kill anyone. The senate letters stated that the powder was anthrax, and anthrax is NOT immediately fatal. Everyone in Senator Daschle's office took antibiotics, and NO ONE came down with a case of anthrax. The deaths from the senate letters were ALL unpredictable.

Were the senate letters intended to "create terror"? They were clearly intended to motivate the two Senators to reconsider their efforts to delay and water down the Patriot Act. And that was done with letters that were deliberately made to appear to be from Muslim terrorists.

I can't argue that there was no intention to "terrorize" behind the sending of the letters. The question is: How do those letters fit into the pattern made by all the other evidence? And the answer to that is: The evidence shows that the anthrax mailer wanted to show the Senators what could happen if America failed to round up every Muslim in America who could even SEEM to be dangerous.

Distorting and twisting facts and arguing over the definitions of words isn't very productive.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

73 posted on 03/01/2007 10:12:26 AM PST by EdLake
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To: JB in Whitefish
OH, and by the way...I CAN answer those questions you so handily formulated...but, it's your move.

I don't find it productive to respond endlessly to conspiracy theorists. It's a pointless excercise, since the conspiracy theorist will always rely on things which he thoroughly believes and which no one can prove are untrue.

You may consider it to be "proof" of a conspiracy in this case if the government was involved in some kind of real or imagined conspiracy in the past, but that is NOT proof of any kind.

To be productive, the arguments have to be about things which CAN be proven or disproven, not things which CANNOT be disproven.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

74 posted on 03/01/2007 10:23:15 AM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake
Mr Lake,
stating that the letters were clearly intended to motivate
the Senators' actions, is in itself, a LEAP into the mind
of the perpetrator. How can that presumption be made with-
out being certain of the senders identity?....JJ61
75 posted on 03/01/2007 10:30:32 AM PST by JerseyJohn61 (Better Late Than Never.......sometimes over lapping is worth the effort....)
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To: JerseyJohn61
The FBI seemed pretty certain in the Summer of '02 that they had the perpetrator then.

It may have SEEMED that way to you, but the FBI never had ANY evidence of ANY kind that Dr. Hatfill was behind the anthrax attacks. They ONLY investigated him PUBLICLY because they were under enormous pressure to do so. Click HERE for details.

The term "Person of Interest" was coin at that juncture.

The term was coined to mean that Dr. Hatfill was just someone AMONG MANY who the FBI had an interest in. The media distorted it to mean he was a "suspect".

The litigation from that statement will be reverberating for years to come.

Maybe not. The litigation was delayed for about four months because the judge was handling the "Scooter" Libby trial. Now that that trial is just about over, he has started hearing motions again. A key motion will be heard on March 19th. It's VERY possible that that entire lawsuit will be concluded before summer.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

76 posted on 03/01/2007 10:31:37 AM PST by EdLake
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To: JerseyJohn61
stating that the letters were clearly intended to motivate the Senators' actions, is in itself, a LEAP into the mind of the perpetrator. How can that presumption be made with- out being certain of the senders identity?

Why do you have to be "certain of the sender's identity" to see that those two senators were in the news EVERY DAY at that time as they fought to keep the Patriot Act from trampling civil rights for all Americans? America had just suffered a devastating attack from Muslim terrorists, millions more could be killed in a followup biological attacks, and those two senators were concerned with "civil rights."

Maybe I have more facts than you and all the facts fit. Or maybe I look at facts differently from you.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

77 posted on 03/01/2007 10:41:25 AM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake
Senator Leahy was also known for his work on the Foreign
Appropriations Committee. The Group that allocates funds
to be sent to governments such as Egypt and Israel.

Daschle was the top Democrat in the Senate.

Prominent people indeed, even to an internationalist.

Despite the wealth of information that you have assembled,
please be aware that there are facts that both you and the
bureau are clearly lacking....JJ61
78 posted on 03/01/2007 11:05:27 AM PST by JerseyJohn61 (Better Late Than Never.......sometimes over lapping is worth the effort....)
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To: EdLake

"I don't find it productive to respond endlessly to conspiracy theorists. "



The government can and DOES on occasion perpetrate some rather questionable "programs" in the name of "national security".

You did NOT even LOOK at the link I provided, DID you...???

This is no "conspiracy", pal....

www1.va.gov/SHAD

Yep, a MINIMUM of 10,000 people [conspirists to YOU] involved....$4 Billion expended....good Ol' JFK and Robert McNamara having a ball....

gassing and otherwise endangering U.S. Servicemen [and civilians] with NO "informed consent"...no chance of filing a VA Disability Claim..

and kept SECRET over three DECADES....!!!

~~~~~~~

Now, I ask you....just like you posed to ME:

HOW could anyone even IMAGINE this could happen here?

HOW did they "recruit" so many participants?

What KIND of motivation would people have [over 10,000] to keep this a TOTAL secret for so long?

WHERE are the whistle blowers...???

~~~~~~

You are SO certain of your expertise when it comes to Biological Weapons I thought YOU of all people posting here could rattle off the rationale, the methods, the concentrations, the manufacture, the application, and the LEGALITY of such acts.

Why be so SHY...???

~~~~~~~

Just as I PREDICTED, you jumped in and criticized my reply to someone ELSE....who appears to be able to have a civil conversation even though we disagree.

What is YOUR agenda?

Why won't YOU look at the truth...???

Does it "bother" you in the least that I'm not PRETENDING to know "facts"...??? This, unfortunately is real, gritty, really ugly, and QUITE "un American" [Project SHAD/112]

If it IS a "conspiracy theory" then it's a darn GOOD one...because THIS conspiracy is still being perpetrated in the the Servicemen who were involved in MOST cases cannot even GET their full Service Medidal Records or Service Personnel Records and are being left to DIE so that the "test program" can round out its statistics.

Seems like a BIT of a "waste" wouldn't YOU say...???

But, hey...don't believe ME.

http://projectshad.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1059

"Age 68, of Redford.
Larry attended schools in Pontiac, MI, and recently he and his wife, Doreen, attended the 50th anniversary of their high school graduation class."

"He joined the US Navy intending to have a lifetime service career. He was stationed at various places while receiving medical training as a corpsman and laboratory technician, including aboard the USS Pine Island, two years in the Philippines and stateside duty. In 1964, he was selected for Project 112/Project SHAD, which was a top secret project of biological and chemical warfare tests. He had various duties for SHAD, and in addition to his laboratory research work, he was assistant safety and exposed to many agents. He was injured in the line of duty but could not receive medical discharge due to the top secrest nature of his duties."

That would be his OBITUARY...!!!

And, from the SAME site:

"WELL ANOTHER PROJECT SHAD TECHNICAL STAFF MEMBER HAS DIED WITHOUT ANY DECISION ON HIS APPLICATION FOR MEDICAL DISABILITY CLAIM (PUT IN CLAIM MARCH 2006)"

Perhaps YOU had better get on OVER there and straighten those cowardly, unpatriotic, liars out...???

[In the MEAN time, I wouldn't be so cocksure of what the folks at Fort Detrick would or would not DO...!!!]


79 posted on 03/01/2007 2:11:35 PM PST by JB in Whitefish
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To: JerseyJohn61
Daschle was the top Democrat in the Senate.

Yes, I suppose if your objective is to rationalize why al Qaeda would have attacked a liberal Democrat, that's probably the best you can come up with. And you can simply ignore the fact that there are probably a HUNDRED politicians in Washington who would be a more likely target for al Qaeda.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

80 posted on 03/01/2007 2:12:32 PM PST by EdLake
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To: JB in Whitefish
The government can and DOES on occasion perpetrate some rather questionable "programs" in the name of "national security".

Agreed. A lot of stupid things have been done in the past, particularly during the Cold War. But we've learned from them. People are less willing to "go along" today than they were back then. And the Internet has created a whole different world.

Compare that situation back then to the situation we have today with the anthrax vaccine. Everyone and his brother is bringing up all sorts of possible dangers with the vaccine. Compare it to the move to vaccinate teenage girls in Texas against the virus which causes cervical cancer. The protests have virtually stopped most of it.

You are making MY point by bringing up things from back during the Cold War. And you are making MY point by resorting to misguided experiments as a comparison to sending anthrax through the mails to the media and two senators. There is simply no comparison.

In the MEAN time, I wouldn't be so cocksure of what the folks at Fort Detrick would or would not DO...!!

One thing we KNOW for certain. They knew so little about powdered anthrax that they made mistake after mistake in analyzing it. No one at Ft. Detrick had worked with powdered anthrax in decades. "To Err Is Human" is the title of the chapter in my book where I go through all the stupid mistakes made at Ft. Detrick and AFIP because of their lack of knowledge of such things.

I cannot prove that Ft. Detrick wasn't involved, but all the EVIDENCE says that they weren't. But, you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe, regardless of what the facts say.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

81 posted on 03/01/2007 2:30:56 PM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake
Most magazines and newspapers have lawyers on retainer.

The Digest, for one, has its own legal staff.

I think this development is interesting, only because when I left the magazine in 1992 we were justifiably proud of having NEVER lost an editorial lawsuit to that point...and it was primarily due to the top-notch in-house editorial research staff. RD's fact-checking procedures were then the best in the industry.

RD has since fallen on relatively hard times and made significant editorial staff cuts. I don't know any specifics re this case to assess whether short-changed editorial research in any way contributed to the outcome.

82 posted on 03/01/2007 2:47:32 PM PST by M. Thatcher
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To: EdLake

"No one at Ft. Detrick had worked with powdered anthrax in decades."

Oh REALLY....???

YOU better do a little study on a guy named "William Capers Patrick III"

~~~~~~~

Furthermore, it DISGUSTS me that people are so ready to write off very real and highly injurious practices to "misguided" events....as if their OWN conspiracy THEORY is more sacred than the lives of 10,000 U.S. Servicemen.....!!!

Unfortunately, what YOU fail to recognize is that the BULK of the U.S. Government's "knowledge" about Bio-Chemical Weapons came at the expense of the LIVES of unsuspecting "test subjects" who were left with NO recourse.

But, let ONE guy play a game of hide and seek and YOU will "write a book". I strongly advise you to read a different book called simply "Germs" in which you will find revealed the callous disregard for our Troops lives AND an expose of the faults in the system currently used to produce those vaccines YOU are so glib to pass over.

Do you REALLY think this technology just dropped out of the sky...???

And, when it comes to "harmless insecticides"...I would proffer that most, if not ALL, of the organophosphates used as "nerve agents" are in FACT derived from said "insecticides", starting with Zyklon B of NaZi fame and on down through Sarin, Soman, Tabun, and VX Gas.

While you're AT it, read "The Bioweaponeers". Toward the end of this little tale of woe you will find a description of one of the more elaborate episodes in the Project SHAD program, this one South of Hawaii.

Be sure to read to the END where it describes how microscopically individuated spores might transport themselves on an average day....

~~~~~~~~

Now, as for the "nullification" of said perpetrator, I would certainly HOPE the government [NSA, CIA, FBI, Homeland Security] WOULD eliminate the threat posed by any individual if they were involved in the "anthrax scare".

Secondly, I would presume that if they had evidence that the person did NOT act alone, they would keep HIM and the ongoing investigation under wraps until they collected or removed some of the "ringleaders". No point in jumping the gun.

[such as YOU have done when responding to me]

~~~~~~~~

Here's ANOTHER link to ignore:

The Bioweaponeers
A former Russian scientist provides details on biological weapons programs in the former Soviet Union.
cryptome.org/bioweap.htm

~~~~~~

OH, and one last thing.

That "cold war" incident you THINK you know all the ins and outs of is STILL going on....

Look up the "Veterans Right to Know Act" [currently dead in the water in committee] and you MAY begin to glimpse the TRUTH.....or not....YOUR choice.


83 posted on 03/01/2007 2:51:47 PM PST by JB in Whitefish
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To: M. Thatcher
we were justifiably proud of having NEVER lost an editorial lawsuit to that point.

Dr. Hatfill's legal case was SOLID from the get-go. Judge McMahon made some truly damning comments about Don Foster's article when she took on the case after the change of venue.

In her Decision she wrote:

"only an unreasonable reader would conclude that the articles were merely reports about an official investigation."

and ...

"since Hatfill has not been charged with any crime, the articles in suit cannot be described as accurate reports of charges of wrongdoing.

and ...

"Foster came up with these theories and conjectures, not in his role as a Vassar professor, but in his second life as a crime fighter. Early in the article, Foster explains that he lives a double life reminiscent of Indiana Jones."

and ...

"Foster's use of the Richard Jewell comparison, in the overall context of the article, is more than sufficient for me to conclude, as a matter of law, that Foster intended to imply that Hatfill was the anthrax murderer."

Here's that last phrase in BOLD CAPITALS:

"more than sufficient for me to conclude, AS A MATTER OF LAW, THAT FOSTER INTENDED TO IMPLY THAT HATFILL WAS THE ANTHRAX MURDERER."

With comments like that from the Judge, all that Vanity Fair and Readers' Digest could do was negotiate to avoid going to trial where there would be NO LIMIT to what a jury could award. And the only thing they really had to negotiate WITH was money and time (i.e., dragging out the case for years).

It's too bad everyone was sworn to silence in the settlement, because my feeling is that the settlment involved some pretty BIG bucks. It almost certainly wasn't the full ten million dollars asked, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't somewhere in lower millions somewhere.

It really bothers me that almost NO ONE in the media reported on the retraction, and the only one who did -- The New York Sun -- appears to have wrongly interpreted the settlement in implying that there may have been no money involved.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

84 posted on 03/02/2007 7:23:02 AM PST by EdLake
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To: JB in Whitefish
YOU better do a little study on a guy named "William Capers Patrick III"

You'll undoubtedly be happy to know that Bill Patrick and I have talked on the phone several times, and he wrote a great review for my book. He wrote:

"With critical assessment of available evidence, Edward G. Lake has generated a very important new book entitled "Analyzing The Anthrax Attacks". This book is truly an analysis of the facts that are currently known. The author does not have a political agenda; he is not a conspiracy theorist; and he sets out the facts in a clear and concise, highly readable narrative. As a result, many of the concepts and conclusions set forth in other print media are shown to be wrong and based upon faulty analysis. I have read many books on this subject, and this book is by far the most informative! The author has performed an outstanding service to our country in putting the anthrax letters in proper perspective." --- William C. Patrick III, President, BioThreats Assessment

While you're AT it, read "The Bioweaponeers".

I've not only read "The Bioweaponeers", I've exchanged many emails with the author of the article, Richard Preston. In fact, Richard Preston also wrote a review of my book:

"Ed Lake's "Analyzing the Anthrax Attacks" is a must-read for anyone interested in the unsolved anthrax terrorist attacks of 2001. It's fascinating, thoughtful, intensely and passionately researched and argued, and intelligently probing about the mysterious events. Lake brings a wealth of detailed knowledge to his account, and he comes to provocative conclusions that not everyone will agree with. He is highly critical of the media at times--sometimes critical of my book, The Demon in the Freezer--but so what, we in the media ought to be able to handle criticism just the way we dish it out, and I think Lake's work deserves to be taken very seriously. We can only hope that one day this horrendous crime will be solved and the perpetrator or perpetrators brought to justice."

I strongly advise you to read a different book called simply "Germs"

I've not only read it, two of the authors Bill Broad and Judy Miller have been corresponding with me via emails for years, and I've talked on the phone with Bill Broad several times.

It's funny that you should mention "Germs", since most conspiracy theorists point out that the book was published on September 12, 2001, one day after 9/11. They usually declare that that couldn't be a "coincidence" and that the authors may have been involved in some conspiracy. ;-)

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

85 posted on 03/02/2007 7:45:21 AM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake
I've talked on the phone with Bill Broad several times.

Dang!! I should have mentioned that, while Bill Broad never reviewed my book (even though he's read it), he DID write about it in an article printed in The New York Times last September. He wrote:

Last year, Edward G. Lake, a retired computer systems analyst in Racine, Wis., self-published a book, "Analyzing the Anthrax Attacks," that documented the silica misunderstanding as well as many other federal and private blunders. “There were,” Mr. Lake said in an interview, “a lot of false assumptions.”

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

86 posted on 03/02/2007 8:03:04 AM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake
It really bothers me that almost NO ONE in the media reported on the retraction, and the only one who did -- The New York Sun -- appears to have wrongly interpreted the settlement in implying that there may have been no money involved.

You're not surprised though are you, that the media have no interest in reporting any hint of wrongdoing by one of their brethren in this case? Steven Hatfill isn't Wen Ho Lee. They just don't like the guy, and many of them probably still believe that he was involved.

87 posted on 03/02/2007 8:08:45 AM PST by jpl
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To: jpl
You're not surprised though are you, that the media have no interest in reporting any hint of wrongdoing by one of their brethren in this case?

No, I'm not surprised. The media has totally missed the boat on MANY occasions in their anthrax investigation coverage, and mostly it appears to be because they only want to report on what suits their point of view -- whether that be a LEFT WING OR RIGHT WING point of view.

On the other hand, it's hard to report on something where everyone is sworn to silence.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

88 posted on 03/02/2007 8:37:32 AM PST by EdLake
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To: jpl
They just don't like the guy, and many of them probably still believe that he was involved.

The reporter who wrote the article in the New York Sun sent me a copy, and we exchanged several emails. The impression I got was that he simply interpreted things the way he did based upon his own past experiences. I don't think he deliberately tried to mislead anyone. He just made wrong assumptions and reported his assumptions as speculation.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

89 posted on 03/02/2007 8:42:53 AM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake
He just made wrong assumptions and reported his assumptions as speculation.

Dang! Missed it again. I should have mentioned how easy it is to do that when you begin with a belief and then rationalize everything to fit that belief.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

90 posted on 03/02/2007 8:46:33 AM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake

"It's funny that you should mention "Germs", since most conspiracy theorists point out that the book was published on September 12, 2001, one day after 9/11. They usually declare that that couldn't be a "coincidence" and that the authors may have been involved in some conspiracy. ;-)"

Very smug of you to note, but I don't recall making ANY such connection...rather that you could find references to Project SHAD/112 in both that book and The Bioweaponeers article. The REASON it's not mentioned by name is that it was still HIGHLY classified when they were written.

I'm glad to see you're such a close friend of Bill Patrick.

Here's my favorite quote from that cold hearted bastard on page 65 of "Germs":

"Patrick was frank about relishing his days as a germ warrior, saying he was comfortable with memories of killing animals, infecting people and finding ways to produce death. It was part of military readiness, of deterring foes, of keeping the nation strong. 'At the time we were doing this, the objective was to solve the problem and not consider the philosophical ramifications of what we were doing,' he said. 'On Fridays, when we'd sit around and bullshit, we wouldn't say, We have moral obligation to curtail this! It would be, 'How do we increase the consentration?' You never connected it to people. Maybe that's bad. But there was danger involved here."

It's not just his words which classify him as criminally insane, it's his callous masterminding of MUCH of Project SHAD/112 and producing the agents which were shipped to Dugway Proving Ground [or Fort Douglas, Utah or Deseret Test Center if you prefer] and then out to the Navy where unsuspecting Sailors were REPEATEDLY told, "It's only harmless simulants." Navy activities were carried out from Hawaii to the Marshall Islands, along the California Coast, offshore from Nova Scotia, & Puerto Rico; and OPEN AIR land-based tests were performed in Maryland, Georgia, Florida, Panama, Utah, Alaska and Hawaii...in some cases endangering CIVILIAN populations.

Since you're SO enamored of this group of "super patriots" to use YOUR terminology, it would profit you to check out one J. Clifton Spendlove, who ran Dugway, etc. When first contacted by the media he denied that there was ANY culpability on the part of the test conductors. But, when he was deposed under oath in a lawsuit brought by the D.C. firm Shaw-Pittman, he recanted that position and reluctantly admitted that they DID know how dangerous and life-threatening some of the tests were for their human test subjects.

~~~~~~~~

"Knight Ridder Newspapers reported on January 9 that J. Clifton Spendlove, a former top official of secret Cold War testing of defenses against chemical and biological weapons, known as Project 112, has undercut Pentagon denials that servicemen were treated as unwitting guinea pigs. Project 112 was a series of 134 land- and sea-based experiments conducted by the military between 1962 and 1973.

In a recent deposition, Spendlove contradicted past Defense Department statements that the servicemen "were not test subjects, but test conductors".

Fox News reported on January 16 that the Pentagon continues to withhold documents on Cold War chemical and biological weapons tests that used unsuspecting military personnel as "human samplers", despite having told Congress that it had released all medically relevant information."

http://www.basicint.org/update/BWU040205.htm

This information comes from the radical leftist group and conspiracy theorists known as, "British American Security Information Council"...!!!

~~~~~~

Thank you for doing such an OUTSTANDING job of shining the shoes of your heroes and riding their capes to fame and fortune. Next time I suggest you actually READ your source information, not just glean supporting "facts" at your leisure.

Bill Patrick, "You never connected it to people." I'm sure that will warm the souls of the military cockroaches upon whom his potions were tested....Don't YOU...???


91 posted on 03/02/2007 9:52:10 AM PST by JB in Whitefish
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To: EdLake

ED LAKE, "You can twist things to fit your beliefs all you want, but it just makes you look devious and ignorant. I've collected and analyzed ALL the information I could find, so even you should be able to see I'm not basing my findings on just one fact or distorted belief."

I fully agree..!!!

Here's some data from another subversive group of wack jobs, "Quarterly Journal of the Harvard Sussex Program on CBW Armament and Arms Limitation" about a CONSPIRACY, not a "theory"....

11 December: In the US, J Clifton Spendlove, the
77-year old former director of the Project 112/SHAD
programme [see 30 Jun 03] makes a sworn deposition in the
Vietnam Veterans of America v. McNamara court case. The
VVA and 21 Project SHAD veterans are suing former US
Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara and several officials
of both the Departments of Defense and Veterans Affairs for
having participated in a decades-long cover-up of nformation
related to the tests. In his testimony, Spendlove ontradicts
earlier assertions by Department of Defense officials by
unequivocally stating that some SHAD veterans were used
as “human samplers” and that nose swabs and gargle samples
were taken from some. Spendlove also says that he personally
kept written records and video footage of the tests as they
were carried out. His deposition confirms that these records
also include human dose information that can be correlated to specific internal areas of ships for specific times and durations.

Spendlove believes that all of these records have been declassified and are still on file at the Deseret Test Center Library.

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/Units/spru/hsp/CBWCB63.pdf

~~~~~~~~

YOUR glib assertions about how "mistakes were made" is a shade off-balance, wouldn't you agree.....since these INTENTIONAL ACTS were perpetrated through no "accident", but were intended from the start to endanger U.S. fighting forces in the name of "national security"....???

Furthermore...since these items were only begun to be de-classified in late '99 or thereabouts, how can YOU claim there's a long history of correcting those wrongs...???

You have absolutely NO data to support such a self-serving claim......NONE....!!!

I bet you "think" that these episodes are a "thing of the past"....huh...???

Funny how the recent many-paged "rules" for human test subject practices from SecNav belie that PRESUMPTION.


92 posted on 03/02/2007 10:45:03 AM PST by JB in Whitefish
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To: JB in Whitefish
Thank you for doing such an OUTSTANDING job of shining the shoes of your heroes and riding their capes to fame and fortune.

You just cannot resist twisting facts to fit your beliefs, can you?

My first contact with Bill Patrick was AFTER I wrote my book. Someone told him about it, and he called and asked if I'd send him a copy. I did. He then called me back and offered to write a review for it.

Since you're SO enamored of this group of "super patriots" ...

What I do not do is assume that everyone who disagrees with me is lying - as you seem to do. I collect information from the best sources possible. And some of the best sources about bioweapons would have to be the people with actual experience making them -- like Bill Patrick and Ken Alibek.

When I talked with them, I had already collected a LOT of information, and I just needed to understand the physics and the microbiology involved in making spore powders. I didn't want to be like the so-called "journalists" at the Washington Post who refused to believe any actual expert in microbiology or bioweapons, so they went out and interviewed CHEMISTS and PHARMACISTS to get their opinions on spores, even though such people have NOTHING to do with spores and didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to bioweapons.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

93 posted on 03/02/2007 11:00:23 AM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake

"You just cannot resist twisting facts to fit your beliefs, can you?

My first contact with Bill Patrick was AFTER I wrote my book. Someone told him about it, and he called and asked if I'd send him a copy. I did. He then called me back and offered to write a review for it.

Since you're SO enamored of this group of "super patriots" ...

What I do not do is assume that everyone who disagrees with me is lying - as you seem to do. I collect information from the best sources possible. And some of the best sources about bioweapons would have to be the people with actual experience making them -- like Bill Patrick and Ken Alibek."

YOU are the one who BRAGGED about your associations, not ME.

Gee, let's see....Patrick wrote a review of your book 'AFTER' you wrote it...???

Well, I'd be REALLY impressed if he had done so BEFORE you wrote it, huh...???

~~~~~~~~~

I had NO knowledge of your associations with various reporters/authors/mad scientists until AFTER you told me about them, now DID I...???

I'm just ocmmenting on the FACT that you might want to look a teensy bit more CAREFULLY at the sources you quote in such an offhand manner.

Go back and read that quote by Patrick...THERE is a shining example of rationalizing ones actions...wouldn't YOU say...???

I'm afraid it's YOU who's holding these folks up as paragons of the truth whilst totally ignoring their own assessment of their acts.

Or did you really "think" that Patrick was being square with you about his involvements in a TOP SECRET bugs and gasses game in which we ALL lose....???

right.

If you'd rather I didn't expose the gaping holes in your methods, then QUIT tossing the soft balls down the middle of the plate.

~~~~~~~~

YOU are the one throwing around the most frequent and plentiful epithets on this thread, Mr. Pot. I'm just disagreeing with your knotting of that tidy little bow, that's all.

When I called Patrick "cold hearted" and "criminally insane" it was for lack any more printable phrases. Let's be HONEST....there's this teensy-weensy possibility that good Ol' Bill left out a few details.

And, there's a corresponding itsy-bitsy probability that if it WERE someone connected to some nefarious goings-on and that person DID get apprehended....the folks responsible for the information and material LEAKS wouldn't exactly be shouting out for all to hear about their complicity or culpability.

That's just plain COMMON SENSE, not some tinfoil hatted paranoiac delusion.

The BLAME GAME is going to be fascinating to watch if we ever DO actually get close to the core of this rotten onion.

But, that's just MY personal take on it.

~~~~~~~~~~

"What I do not do is assume that everyone who disagrees with me is lying - as you seem to do."

WHEN or WHERE did I label you as "LYING"...???

Nice accusation, though, if it were TRUE...!!!

I don't think you ARE disagreeing with me....what I DO think is that you don't comprehend what I'm telling you, since the bulk of your comments in my regard have been very wide of the mark. YOU have this seemingly "knee jerk" habit of attempting to pigeon hole me...and putting words in my mouth.

Or is it that you just don't LIKE my sources...???

[which would be the DOD, VA, heads of highly classified events, sworn depositions, and books/authors upon which YOU place a high degree of value...???]

I NEVER attempted to "interpret" Bill Patrick's words, just quoted them verbatim....!!!

You can draw your OWN conclusions. But, I think upon further reflection you will EVENTUALLY find them shocking.

Yep, some of the serpents DO have silver tongues.


94 posted on 03/02/2007 11:28:13 AM PST by JB in Whitefish
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To: EdLake

About medical advice...

Al qaeda, per their own ideology, has a requirement to warn their targets before an attack. Osama has a clear pattern of doing exactly that. A warning is issued with an option, convert, submit or be subject to attack. This is one way they justify what it is they do.

Is it not possible that it was indeed sending a warning of future attacks that would comply with their own requirements?

It seems you do consider it to be a warning but I am confused as to why you dismiss that it was a warning from Al Qaeda and settle on the notion it was someone from inside our own country, or even our own government, sending that warning. May I ask what makes you settle on one instead of the other? Is it anything besides the 'medical advice'?

I am offering an angle that the 'medical advice' was a way to keep consistant with their own ideology of providing a warning before a deadly attack. That actual anthrax may have been sent to insure that it would not be dismissed as a haox. Do you find this so impossible? If so, why?


95 posted on 03/02/2007 11:56:05 AM PST by Just sayin (Is is what it is, for if it was anything else, it would be isn't.)
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To: JerseyJohn61
We were hit with a domestic bacteria just as we were smacked with our own aircraft.

Very good point.
96 posted on 03/02/2007 12:01:04 PM PST by Just sayin (Is is what it is, for if it was anything else, it would be isn't.)
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To: EdLake
And you don't find it "surprising" that FIVE AND A HALF YEARS LATER and the authorities have found NO evidence that al Qaeda was behind the anthrax attacks. In fact, ALL the evidence seems to dispute such a belief.

Is this to say you have reviewed ALL the evidence that exists? Pretty bold claim to make isn't it? I am not trying to be combative with you but it seems like you are stretching a bit in that statement. It portrays the idea that we have seen publicly everything that has been collected.

I am Just sayin I don't accept that premise.
97 posted on 03/02/2007 12:07:24 PM PST by Just sayin (Is is what it is, for if it was anything else, it would be isn't.)
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To: JB in Whitefish
Or did you really "think" that Patrick was being square with you about his involvements in a TOP SECRET bugs and gasses game in which we ALL lose....???

You just keep going off in to Screwball Land with the spin you put on things. And you just cannot stick to the subject -- the anthrax attacks. So, this argument is becoming a waste of time.

The only thing I discussed with Bill Patrick was my book and if there was anything in it that was not scientifically accurate.

He told me he found it to be one of the four best books he'd ever read on the subject of bioterrorism. He teaches classes to first responders, and he recommends my book in his classes.

The only qualm he had with what I wrote in my book was that I use an analogy somewhere where I say the anthrax in the letters sifted through the paper like sand through a window screen -- or something like that. He said that wasn't a good analogy since it takes some force besides gravity to get the spores through the pores in the paper. It needs something like manual handling or being squeezed in post office equipment. He showed me some video tapes he uses in his classes where he demonstrates how simulants can be forced through the pores in an envelope. I could see it with my own eyes, so I have no reason to believe he was not telling the truth.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

98 posted on 03/02/2007 2:31:21 PM PST by EdLake
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To: Just sayin
It seems you do consider it to be a warning but I am confused as to why you dismiss that it was a warning from Al Qaeda and settle on the notion it was someone from inside our own country, or even our own government, sending that warning. May I ask what makes you settle on one instead of the other? Is it anything besides the 'medical advice'?

There's a whole list of reasons. I've listed some of them in this thread.

The anthrax mailer used a deliberately scrambled return address on the senate letters, evidently so there would be no chance that the anthrax-filled letters could be returned to some real school. Would al Qaeda have cared?

All the 9/11 hijackers were DEAD at the time of the mailings. They were DEAD for nearly a month at the time of the second mailing. No anthrax was found anywhere the 9/11 hijackers went. As far as we know, no anthrax was found on any Muslim who could even remotely have been involved in the mailings.

The second batch of letters was sent to two senators would would have been near the BOTTOM of any list of American politicians al Qaeda might target.

According to NBC News, the water used during the growing and refining of anthrax spores came from the Northeastern United States.

There were several unconfirmed reports that the letters were printed on a copy machine the FBI located in Central New Jersey.

There were two different grades of anthrax involved, making it a near certainty that the anthrax culprit MADE the refined anthrax during the period between the two mailings.

There was no follow up to the "warning" even though al Qaeda members were being hunted down and killed all over the world.

There was enough anthrax in the mailings to kill hundreds, if not thousands, if properly distributed, but the person who sent the letters actually took precautions to reduce the risk of anyone being fatally exposed.

Etc., etc., etc.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

99 posted on 03/02/2007 2:47:41 PM PST by EdLake
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To: Just sayin
Is this to say you have reviewed ALL the evidence that exists? Pretty bold claim to make isn't it?

Yes, in my haste to respond to these discussions in a timely manner I sometimes I do not properly qualify what I write.

I wrote "the authorities have found NO evidence that al Qaeda was behind the anthrax attacks.". I should have written, "AS FAR AS I KNOW AFTER COLLECTING ALL THE INFORMATION I COULD FIND OVER A PERIOD OF FIVE AND A HALF YEARS, the authorities have found NO evidence that al Qaeda was behind the anthrax attacks."

I wrote "In fact, ALL the evidence seems to dispute such a belief." I should have written, "In fact, AS FAR AS I KNOW AFTER COLLECTING ALL THE INFORMATION I COULD FIND OVER A PERIOD OF FIVE AND A HALF YEARS, ALL the evidence seems to dispute such a belief.

Is that better?

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

100 posted on 03/02/2007 2:54:18 PM PST by EdLake
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