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Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming
National Geographic News ^

Posted on 03/02/2007 6:22:22 AM PST by WBL 1952

Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human- induced—cause.

Earth is currently experiencing rapid warming, which the vast majority of climate scientists says is due to humans pumping huge amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

Mars, too, appears to be enjoying more mild and balmy temperatures.

In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.nationalgeographic.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: climatechange; globalwarming
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To: VA_Gentleman

I think the episode is brilliant.
"Ya, right, the guy who single handidly killed Manbearpig is a loser."


51 posted on 03/02/2007 11:29:29 AM PST by Holicheese (Beerfest could be the greatest movie ever made!)
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To: Holicheese

It is an excellent episode. I'm also partial to the episode from Season 1 when the boys from South Park get Robert Smith of the Cure to save South Park from Barbara Streisand.


52 posted on 03/02/2007 11:44:21 AM PST by VA_Gentleman (Got a knack for being wrong - Dinosaur Jr.)
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To: VA_Gentleman

I miss Big Gay Al.
That was a very funny character.


53 posted on 03/02/2007 11:57:34 AM PST by Holicheese (Beerfest could be the greatest movie ever made!)
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To: Holicheese

I'm Super Fantastic! Thank you soooooo much for asking.


Sit Sparky! Good boy. Roll over Sparky. Good. Now, don't be gay Sparky.


54 posted on 03/02/2007 12:07:33 PM PST by VA_Gentleman (Got a knack for being wrong - Dinosaur Jr.)
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To: SengirV

Thanks for the links!!!


55 posted on 03/02/2007 12:11:34 PM PST by Halgr (Once a Marine, always a Marine - Semper Fi)
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To: WBL 1952

The links don't work for me.


56 posted on 03/02/2007 12:15:02 PM PST by TwoSue
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To: Halgr

You're welcome. I use them all the time to shut the yaps of those "We humans are killing the planet" types.


57 posted on 03/02/2007 12:15:59 PM PST by SengirV
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To: ConservaTexan; JustDoItAlways
I read that the Earth's temperature had plateaued and actually dropped by a fraction of a degree in recent years.

One warmer's response:

I got this from a mainstream site, Gristmill - "How to Talk to a Skeptic"

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/11/4/175028/329

Their graph shows variations above and below a trend line of increasing temperatures, and includes the 1998 spike. The trend line still goes up.

58 posted on 03/02/2007 1:15:20 PM PST by secretagent
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To: secretagent
It pays to take a look at a graph with better resolution that shows what is currently going on.

The short term high spikes in temperature of the following graph are do to El Nino, the red line is the combined ocean & land temperature index, the black is land meteorlogical stations only.

 

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.C_lrg.gif


59 posted on 03/02/2007 3:05:56 PM PST by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it.)
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To: WBL 1952
But, but, how can this be, even in theory? Algore told us on the internet he invented and in his movie (which I haven't seen) that we humans are the cause for global warming and the UN has confirmed this and added that we can't stop or fix it. /sarcasm
60 posted on 03/02/2007 3:15:29 PM PST by fortunecookie (My computer is back!)
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To: xcamel; neverdem; secretagent
See?

Even his chart slows the temperature has "leveled off" since Bush became president!

Seriously.

Do you see the BOTTOM of the recent "red" lines - the lines that are high-lighted as IF they were filled in from 0 to the current temp increase of .3 degrees? On the REAL chart from NASA for troposphere temperatures (which is what this character has warped for his purposes) the red lines are the max-min points for each year. They are NOT filled in like he has done. They do NOT show a continuous rise since 1980.

They do NOT show a "0" point at 1980 - a LOW point in NASA's graph!

This graph from the warmer socialist is a LIE. Temperatures since the 1998 peak have been up and down, but have NOT increased since that period: they are steady, but cycling up AND DOWN around the same point they were 8 years ago.

61 posted on 03/02/2007 3:15:48 PM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Arrowhead1952

Gore may get doctorate (Univ.Of Minnesota, and Liberalism, CRAZY GORE ALERT )

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1788124/posts

To the guy who invented the internet.


62 posted on 03/02/2007 4:25:14 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: dfwgator

Yeah, it's kind of hard selling *global warming* when people are digging out from a blizzard in -20 degree weather.


63 posted on 03/02/2007 4:27:15 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

thanks, bfl


64 posted on 03/02/2007 5:41:36 PM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: WBL 1952

GW bump


65 posted on 03/02/2007 5:47:19 PM PST by jonno (Having an opinion is not the same as having the answer...)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
On the REAL chart from NASA for troposphere temperatures (which is what this character has warped for his purposes) the red lines are the max-min points for each year. They are NOT filled in like he has done. They do NOT show a continuous rise since 1980.

Gristmill ("How to talk to skeptic") got the graph shown from the Climate Research Unit, School of Environmental Sciences University of East Anglia:

http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/info/warming/

I haven't clicked on all their links, so I don't know where they got their data, and so can't agree or disagree on their having falsified the NASA data.

They do NOT show a "0" point at 1980 - a LOW point in NASA's graph!

What NASA graph?

I think CRU set the "0" point at 1939, not 1980:

http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/info/warming/gtc2005.csv

66 posted on 03/02/2007 7:15:33 PM PST by secretagent
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To: WBL 1952
Hints? It pretty much screams it out ot my ears.

67 posted on 03/02/2007 7:19:00 PM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: ancient_geezer

Thanks AG.


68 posted on 03/02/2007 7:21:02 PM PST by secretagent
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To: secretagent

It's not so much that "falsified" NASA data, more that they (deliberately) are presenting it from "zero" points and in a graph format that shows the wrong conclusion. So you see large red lines, but not the declines and drops.

You "see" a huge increase, but the actual increase is LESS THAN 1/2 of one degree. Make sense?


69 posted on 03/02/2007 7:28:30 PM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: WBL 1952
Must be those Sport Utility Vehicles charging over the dunes of Mars.

Bingo! Ali Gorat would agree.

70 posted on 03/02/2007 7:50:51 PM PST by A. Pole (Gore:We are the most powerful force of nature.We are changing the relationship between Earth and Sun)
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To: WBL 1952

Sun causes global warming. Who'd have thunk?


71 posted on 03/02/2007 7:52:19 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: Beowulf

ping


72 posted on 03/02/2007 8:17:02 PM PST by steelyourfaith
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
So you see large red lines, but not the declines and drops.

I see short and tall red lines and blue lines, and thick and thin red and blue lines:

Declines and drops - do you mean the black trend line doesn't decline and dip where it should?

73 posted on 03/02/2007 8:53:34 PM PST by secretagent
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To: LeGrande

PTT


74 posted on 03/02/2007 9:15:20 PM PST by LeGrande (Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God of Abraham.)
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To: WBL 1952

BTTT


75 posted on 03/03/2007 1:18:28 AM PST by Buzwardo
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To: metmom
Gore may get doctorate (Univ.Of Minnesota, and Liberalism, CRAZY GORE ALERT )

That is too rich. I think Algore has lost the last brain cells he has with his global warming theory.

76 posted on 03/03/2007 4:03:27 AM PST by Arrowhead1952 (The dims and Ron Paul screwed our troops.)
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To: secretagent

How this graph looks for the previous ten centuries?


77 posted on 03/03/2007 4:39:06 AM PST by A. Pole (Gore:We are the most powerful force of nature.We are changing the relationship between Earth and Sun)
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To: WBL 1952

George W. Bush owns the Hummer franchise on Mars.


78 posted on 03/03/2007 4:44:22 AM PST by reg45
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To: WBL 1952; texianyankee; JayB; ElkGroveDan; markman46; palmer; Bahbah; Paradox; FOG724; ...
(((GLOBAL WARMING PING)))



You have been pinged because of your interest in environmentalism, alarmist wackos, mainstream media doomsday hype, and other issues pertaining to global warming.
Freep-mail me to get on or off: Add me / Remove me
Please ping me to all note-worthy threads on global warming.



Global Warming News on Free Republic

Global Warming Headlines

JunkScience.com


In Case You Missed It

Early flurry of killer tornadoes linked to cold winter ("There is no evidence that the world's warming climate is leading to an increase in tornadoes.")

UN chief says climate change as great a threat as war

President Bush's Crawford TX Home is Model of Environmentally Friendly Living

War on Warming Begins at (Al Gore's) Home (Gore's house in the Volunteer State uses 20 times as much electricity as the average household nationwide.)

Improved Predictions Of Warming-Induced Extinctions Sought; Species Persist More Than Models Assume

The Inconvenient Truth About Al Gore

All those scientists may still be wrong (on global warming)

$cienti$t$ to U.N.: "Ten$ of billion$" needed to combat global warming
79 posted on 03/03/2007 9:19:15 AM PST by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: WBL 1952
"Mars, too, appears to be enjoying more mild and balmy temperatures."

Nothing new here. I have been hearing it for over a year, but the Global Warming thought police, keep a lid on it.
It is no wonder that so many people are ignorant about the facts of climate change.
Ask anyone about the MWP, you will get a blank stare.
80 posted on 03/03/2007 9:34:11 AM PST by AlexW
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To: TommyDale
The editor who selected this headline just can't quite let it go, can he?

I'm suprised to even see this coming from National Geographic considering they're on the front line of the "man is destroying the earth" argument. I've subscribed for years, but every issue now is battle between the articles that require a barf alert due to lefty politics of any kind and the truly informative politically neutral articles. The letters section keeps me going. For every moonbat that writes, there's usually a sanity check from someone else.

81 posted on 03/03/2007 12:19:48 PM PST by GATOR NAVY (Naming CVNs after congressmen and mediocre presidents burns my butt)
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To: secretagent
I looked at some NASA global temperature anomaly data I had archived back in 2002 from the site NASA data. Surprisingly, the data were fairly different than the current NASA data set at the same web site.

Here's how the old and new yearly average anomalies compare:

Jan-Dec global average anomalies reported in 2002 followed by average anomalies currently reported for same years.
1990 49 38
1991 44 35
1992 16 13
1993 19 14
1994 31 24
1995 45 38
1996 34 30
1997 38 40
1998 69 57
1999 41 33
2000 39 33
2001 52 48

All of a sudden 1998 is not the warmest year on record in the NASA data. Though I didn't show it above, 2005 is the warmest year in the current data set with an anomaly value of 63. Somebody has been adjusting the data to give different average values.

The NASA data table says that the data since 1981 have had outliers eliminated and the data made "homogeneous."

82 posted on 03/03/2007 11:44:18 PM PST by rustbucket (E pur si muove)
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To: rustbucket

Thanks. I will have to learn some terms and concepts, including outliers and the reasons for adjustment.


83 posted on 03/04/2007 1:35:14 PM PST by secretagent
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To: secretagent
Without details of how the adjustment was made, I'm a bit skeptical of the change in the yearly averages.

There can be justifiable reasons for discarding or adjusting data. I just don't know how reasonable throwing out points at one extreme or the other (i.e., outliers) or massaging the data (i.e., making them more "homogeneous") was in this case.

Given the potential political and economic impact of global temperature data, I'd want to check into the justification for the changes before I gave the adjusted data a lot of credence.

84 posted on 03/04/2007 4:04:34 PM PST by rustbucket (E pur si muove)
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To: rustbucket

Yes.


85 posted on 03/04/2007 4:49:48 PM PST by secretagent
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To: rustbucket
To this layman it sure seems dodgy after reading this:

The Elusive Absolute Surface Air Temperature (SAT) Q. What exactly do we mean by SAT ? A. I doubt that there is a general agreement how to answer this question. Even at the same location, the temperature near the ground may be very different from the temperature 5 ft above the ground and different again from 10 ft or 50 ft above the ground. Particularly in the presence of vegetation (say in a rain forest), the temperature above the vegetation may be very different from the temperature below the top of the vegetation. A reasonable suggestion might be to use the average temperature of the first 50 ft of air either above ground or above the top of the vegetation. To measure SAT we have to agree on what it is and, as far as I know, no such standard has been suggested or generally adopted. Even if the 50 ft standard were adopted, I cannot imagine that a weather station would build a 50 ft stack of thermometers to be able to find the true SAT at its location.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/abs_temp.html

Too bad we don't have a simple satellite measurement of heat emitted by the Earth.

86 posted on 03/04/2007 5:39:56 PM PST by secretagent
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To: VA_Gentleman
Well Manbearpig is half-man, half-bear, and half-pig. Al Gore is totally serial about stopping Manbearpig.

I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I come up with 3 halves!

But then again, Algore is getting bigger....

87 posted on 03/04/2007 6:05:24 PM PST by dirtbiker (I'm a liberal's worst nightmare: Redneck with a pickup, library card, and a concealed carry permit)
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To: rustbucket

Of interest? Over my head...

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1217#comments


88 posted on 03/04/2007 7:58:52 PM PST by secretagent
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To: secretagent
Wow! Your link contained a link to an extended discussion about the manipulation of the data. See http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1142

I had archieved the data back in 2002 to try some Fourier analysis on it. I handn't noticed the difference in the old and new data until now. It seems from the discussion at the link above that it is quite a matter of concern. Many thanks for the link.

89 posted on 03/04/2007 9:56:31 PM PST by rustbucket (E pur si muove)
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To: rustbucket

Great!


90 posted on 03/04/2007 10:59:56 PM PST by secretagent
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