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Brother and sister fight Germany's incest laws
The Guardian ^ | February 27, 2007

Posted on 03/02/2007 6:31:06 PM PST by DeerfieldObserver

German brother and sister are challenging the law against incest so that they can continue their relationship free from the threat of imprisonment. Patrick Stübing, an unemployed locksmith, and his sister Susan have had four children together since starting a sexual relationship in 2000. Three of the children are in foster care, and two have unspecified disabilities.

The couple, who live near Leipzig, grew up separately and only met many years later. Their supporters say they will fight until incest is no longer regarded as a criminal offence, arguing that the law is out of date. They say it harks back to the racial hygiene laws of the Third Reich and should be overturned in favour of freedom of choice and sexual determination. Detractors insist that incest should remain a social taboo, largely because of the risks linked to inbreeding and the imbalance in social relations it inevitably causes.

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Germany; US: Arkansas
KEYWORDS: eu; europe; europeanunion; genes; genetics; german; germany; ichbineinbredinner; inbred; inbreeding; incest; mutation; sibling; siblings
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Incest is legal in most European countries, but not in Germany. Strange story. The couple is very selfish because of the danger to their children.

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/world/2007/03/02/pleitg.incestuous.love.cnn

1 posted on 03/02/2007 6:31:08 PM PST by DeerfieldObserver
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To: DeerfieldObserver

Meanwhile a German girl has been removed from her home and family because she was homeschooled.


2 posted on 03/02/2007 6:33:25 PM PST by Graymatter
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To: DeerfieldObserver
German brother and sister are challenging the law against incest so that they can continue their relationship free from the threat of imprisonment.

Coming soon to a Massachusetts near you.

3 posted on 03/02/2007 6:38:58 PM PST by Gay State Conservative ("The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."-Karl Marx)
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To: DeerfieldObserver
Losertarian Ping...

Hey the autonomist, libertarian, AynRand monkeys should be in full support of these two and their "noble" effort to be able to bone your siblings.

4 posted on 03/02/2007 6:41:12 PM PST by AreaMan
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To: DeerfieldObserver
They say it harks back to the racial hygiene laws of the Third Reich and should be overturned in favour of freedom of choice and sexual determination

Ummm....no. It dates back at least, at the very least, to the Pentateuch. Everybody, every nation and group, has some incest taboo.

5 posted on 03/02/2007 6:41:40 PM PST by Lee N. Field
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To: DeerfieldObserver

Incest laws are to protect the children from devastating birth defects that these couples will have. Spay them both or any who would do this.


6 posted on 03/02/2007 6:42:05 PM PST by YOUGOTIT (56 Supporters of al Qaeda are seated in the US Senate)
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To: DeerfieldObserver
"..Incest is not illegal in many of Germany's neighboursing countries, he said. The law was a "historical relic".

Napoleon abolished France's incest laws in 1810. ..."

Ah Ha! Now we know why the French are the way they are, Incest over a long period of time!

7 posted on 03/02/2007 6:42:28 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Gay State Conservative

The situation is a freak situation because the brother and sister were seperated at birth and didn't meet each other until he was 24.

There is an innate aversion to incest to brothers and sisters who grew up together as children.


8 posted on 03/02/2007 6:42:53 PM PST by DeerfieldObserver
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To: DeerfieldObserver; LibreOuMort
The couple... grew up separately and only met many years later.

There's an old Scottish song (Andy Stewart?) about such a situation. Now it's reality...

9 posted on 03/02/2007 6:43:33 PM PST by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com†|Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Bang the mum slowly.


10 posted on 03/02/2007 6:44:02 PM PST by cripplecreek (Peace without victory is a temporary illusion.)
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To: DeerfieldObserver

Gott im Himmel.

Das ist sehr schlecht!


11 posted on 03/02/2007 6:44:46 PM PST by bannie
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To: DeerfieldObserver
Ack! PUKE!

That brother/sister procreation thing really worked out well for the royal family of ancient Egypt, didn't it?

They were conquered by Macedonian Greeks and then wiped out by the Roman Empire.

Inbreeding does not work well.

12 posted on 03/02/2007 6:45:36 PM PST by LibKill (ENOUGH! Take the warning labels off everything and let Saint Darwin do his job.)
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To: DeerfieldObserver

"They say it harks back to the racial hygiene laws of the Third Reich "


Huh?
Being against incest means you support the Third Reich?
And here I was thinking most of the nuts were here.


13 posted on 03/02/2007 6:46:31 PM PST by ShawTaylor
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To: DeerfieldObserver

Not very smart, especially considering they are Germans. Many Germans have blond hair and blue eyes. Considering both are recessive, this suggests that Germans already sort of tend toward being inbred. This is just asking for a child with a lot of disabilities.


14 posted on 03/02/2007 6:46:42 PM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: bannie


Du bisht correttomundo!


15 posted on 03/02/2007 6:47:05 PM PST by JRochelle (SuperBowl MVP Peyton Manning is a Republican!)
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To: DeerfieldObserver
"The situation is a freak situation because the brother and sister were seperated at birth and didn't meet each other until he was 24."

Sort of a twist on the Oedipal complex, eh? (Not Canadian, eh just works there).

16 posted on 03/02/2007 6:48:37 PM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: Graymatter

Ah crap, you beat me to it...

I was going to say it's all good unless they decide to homeschool their little imbeciles.


17 posted on 03/02/2007 6:48:52 PM PST by TheSpottedOwl
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To: JRochelle
Du bisht correttomundo!

Engrish, preash!

18 posted on 03/02/2007 6:49:33 PM PST by LibKill (ENOUGH! Take the warning labels off everything and let Saint Darwin do his job.)
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To: JRochelle

Donkey field mice!

;-)


19 posted on 03/02/2007 6:49:39 PM PST by bannie
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To: All

Before people get offended, South Korean are supposed to be the most homogenous (see inbred) people. Others with a lot of homogenity (lots of inbreeding) are Somalis and Icelanders.


20 posted on 03/02/2007 6:50:11 PM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: LibKill

One of the big problems in the Arab countries is the incredible amount of inbreeding. Not brother and sister, but many, many cousins intermarry. Men and women are not allowed to socialize in an open environment, so they tend also to marry within the family.

That is reflected in a strong clannish mentality, and lack of any tolerance for anyone who is not in your particular grup.


21 posted on 03/02/2007 6:50:25 PM PST by DeerfieldObserver
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To: DeerfieldObserver

One or the other should undergo a procedure to eliminate the possibility to have children as a result of their conjugation.

But ewww.. disgusting.


22 posted on 03/02/2007 6:51:38 PM PST by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: LibKill

Vas is lets mit Deutch gesprehin?



P.S. My spellcheck is objecting.


23 posted on 03/02/2007 6:52:05 PM PST by JRochelle (SuperBowl MVP Peyton Manning is a Republican!)
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To: DeerfieldObserver

She's 22 and has 4 kids? She needs to learn to do something else besides procreate. Sounds like this poor girl doesn't get out much.


24 posted on 03/02/2007 6:52:14 PM PST by derllak
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
Before people get offended, South Korean are supposed to be the most homogenous (see inbred) people. Others with a lot of homogenity (lots of inbreeding) are Somalis and Icelanders.

That does not excuse incest.

Many of my extended family are wonderful, beautiful women.

They are strictly off-limits.

25 posted on 03/02/2007 6:53:01 PM PST by LibKill (ENOUGH! Take the warning labels off everything and let Saint Darwin do his job.)
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To: DeerfieldObserver
One of the big problems in the Arab countries is the incredible amount of inbreeding. Not brother and sister, but many, many cousins intermarry. Men and women are not allowed to socialize in an open environment, so they tend also to marry within the family.

That is reflected in a strong clannish mentality, and lack of any tolerance for anyone who is not in your particular group.

That, more than anything else, explains the insane tribal wars in arab-land.

26 posted on 03/02/2007 6:54:53 PM PST by LibKill (ENOUGH! Take the warning labels off everything and let Saint Darwin do his job.)
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To: LibKill

The comment was not stating that incest should be allowed if the population is relatively heterogenous--but was an argument against incest on genetic grounds. There is also a law against incest on Biblical grounds (probably because of genes), as another poster posted.


27 posted on 03/02/2007 6:55:09 PM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: derllak
"She's 22 and has 4 kids? She needs to learn to do something else besides procreate. Sounds like this poor girl doesn't get out much."

Except out of her knickers.

28 posted on 03/02/2007 6:55:30 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Cheney X -- Destroying the Liberal Democrat Traitors By Any Means Necessary -- Ya Dig ? Sho 'Nuff.)
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To: derllak

There was a case of this in WI several years ago.

Brother and sister, 4 kids.


29 posted on 03/02/2007 6:55:46 PM PST by JRochelle (SuperBowl MVP Peyton Manning is a Republican!)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
Eh, Sorry Master Pikachu, I did not intend any insult.

It is clear that you are also against in-breeding.

30 posted on 03/02/2007 6:56:19 PM PST by LibKill (ENOUGH! Take the warning labels off everything and let Saint Darwin do his job.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj



And her dear brother out of his lederhosen.


31 posted on 03/02/2007 6:58:10 PM PST by JRochelle (SuperBowl MVP Peyton Manning is a Republican!)
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To: DeerfieldObserver

I guess they truly give new meaning to "rolling your own"


32 posted on 03/02/2007 6:58:45 PM PST by DaiHuy (There is no situation so bad it cannot be made worse by the police.)
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To: JRochelle

One here in Michigan some years ago. A father, his daughter and their 5 children.


33 posted on 03/02/2007 6:59:58 PM PST by cripplecreek (Peace without victory is a temporary illusion.)
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To: cripplecreek

There was a story somewhere on the web where a rich father married his daughter. Stole her from her husband. Sick,sick.


34 posted on 03/02/2007 7:03:36 PM PST by JRochelle (SuperBowl MVP Peyton Manning is a Republican!)
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To: DeerfieldObserver; Jedi Master Pikachu
Years ago I volunteered to provide physical therapy for developmentally disabled children.

One of the boys turned out to be a product of a brother-sister union - just a total mess.

I didn't last long in that particular volunteer unit...

35 posted on 03/02/2007 7:03:42 PM PST by GoldCountryRedneck ("There are no stupid questions. There are, however, many inquisitive idiots." - unknown)
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To: JRochelle

I have never read of a biological father sleeping with a daughter. Of course, if it is a Stepfather situation, that happens all too often.


36 posted on 03/02/2007 7:07:04 PM PST by DeerfieldObserver
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To: DeerfieldObserver

Incest is illegal in Germany. That's why they're fighting to repeal the law. They should move to France.


37 posted on 03/02/2007 7:08:35 PM PST by ozzymandus
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To: DeerfieldObserver
Incest is legal in most European countries.

But home schooling is not.

Go figure.

38 posted on 03/02/2007 7:10:37 PM PST by capt. norm (Liberalism = cowardice disguised as tolerance.)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

My father says that the reason why the British are so homely is that they live on an island. LOL


39 posted on 03/02/2007 7:11:20 PM PST by Pan_Yans Wife (Life isn't fair. It's just fairer than death, that's all.--William Goldman)
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To: DeerfieldObserver
There is an innate aversion to incest to brothers and sisters who grew up together as children.

There was a recent University study which found that in the State of Arkansas twelve years old was the average age when boys started showing an interest in their sisters.

40 posted on 03/02/2007 7:13:55 PM PST by Jeff Chandler (] Tagline Under Construction [)
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To: DeerfieldObserver

I found it!

Enjoy. Errr no don't.

http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2006-09-28/news/daddy-s-girl/full


41 posted on 03/02/2007 7:27:48 PM PST by JRochelle (SuperBowl MVP Peyton Manning is a Republican!)
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To: AreaMan
Losertarian Ping...

Fricking knee-jerk idiot Ping. You don't know what the Hell you're talking about.

42 posted on 03/02/2007 7:29:20 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Good night Chesty, wherever you are!)
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To: DeerfieldObserver
Three of the children are in foster care, and two have unspecified disabilities.

No fooling. Talk about total selfishness on the part of these idiot so-called "parents". Sterilization isn't good enough for either of them.

43 posted on 03/02/2007 7:29:51 PM PST by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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To: LibKill
Inbreeding does not work well.

I tried to tell that to a member of the KKK a while back. But of course I used the words "racial purity" instead.... Same results though, just look at the skin heads/KKK/neo-nazi's now and you'll realize where racial purity leads to.

-Traveler

44 posted on 03/02/2007 7:33:07 PM PST by Traveler59 (Truth is a journey, not a destination.)
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To: Graymatter
Nothing spells lovin' like marryin' your cousin !!!!!!!!!!!
45 posted on 03/02/2007 7:39:37 PM PST by ALASKA (IT'S NOT ROCKET SURGERY......................Don't just do something, STAND THERE!!!)
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To: DeerfieldObserver
Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
46 posted on 03/02/2007 8:15:02 PM PST by IYellAtMyTV (Workday Forecast--Increasing pressure towards afternoon. Rum likely by evening.)
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To: DeerfieldObserver

They already have four children.


47 posted on 03/02/2007 9:10:34 PM PST by FairOpinion (Tell Congress: Work for Victory in Iraq. Stop Hillary. Go to: http://www.TheVanguard.org)
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To: IYellAtMyTV

What's your point?
To me this is the face of American poverty.


48 posted on 03/02/2007 10:26:18 PM PST by LibreOuMort (Give me liberty, or give me death! (Patrick Henry))
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To: DeerfieldObserver

Incest? I thought the Germans were more into poo.


49 posted on 03/02/2007 10:28:37 PM PST by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich!)
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To: Graymatter

That home-schooling story has several different sides to it. This Melissa Busekros...has some type of emotional issue with school...either the stress of it or simply inability to study. The fact is that on grade points...the school failed her at the conclusion of the 2006 period (summer). They wanted her to repeat...which is kind of amusing that she was in the high-class atmosphere (gymnasium)...and mom probably could have gotten moved to easier classes at some local "Real" school (the middle school of the German system). But mom didn't want that. Mom went the route of home schooling...which is illegal by German law. The interesting point to this...there are other kids in the house...which stayed in the regular German school system...they didn't have issues. Adding to this mess...once this girl turns 16...if she wants to just do apprentice work and forget about school...she could do so. She is very close to that point of turning 16...so the school system could have looked the other way and forgot about this whole thing. Finally...the element of being in Bavaria also plays into this episode...they are pro-family and generally have a strong view of relgion in their minds. As of this week...the girl is still in government control...at a house which the parents know nothing about. The girl is brought once a week, by court-direction to a neutral site where the parents can see the girl.

If the parents really wanted to stir the pot here...they merely need to bring the story of the French hero...Joan of Arc...to this young girl held by the authorities...and simply give her the courage to rise above the German authorities. Joan of Arc had strength to lead a nation and a army...and even in prison...could not be held back.


50 posted on 03/02/2007 11:25:47 PM PST by pepsionice
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