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Cap and Charade
Wall Street Journal ^ | March 3, 2007 | Editor

Posted on 03/03/2007 3:49:48 AM PST by yoe

The idea of a cap-and-trade system for limiting carbon-dioxide emissions in the U.S. has become all the rage. Earlier this year, 10 big American companies formed the Climate Action Partnership to lobby for government action on climate change. And this week the private-equity consortium that is bidding to take over Texas utility TXU announced that, as part of the buyout, it would join the forces lobbying for a cap on carbon emissions.

But this is not, as Lenin once said, a case of capitalists selling the rope to hang themselves with. In most cases, it is good old-fashioned rent-seeking with a climate-change patina.

Start with the name. Most of those pushing this idea want you to think about it as cap-and-trade with emphasis on the trading part. Senator Barbara Boxer touts all the jobs that would be created for people trying to game the system--er, save the planet. And her colleague Jeff Bingaman calls cap-and-trade "market based," because, you know, people would trade stuff. But for that to happen, the government would first have to put a cap on CO2 emissions, either for certain industries or even the economy as a whole. At the same time, it would allocate quotas for CO2 emissions, either based on current emissions, or on energy output, or some other standard. If a company then "over-complied," which means it produced less carbon dioxide than it was allowed to under the rules, it could sell the excess allowance to someone else. That someone else would buy the right to produce CO2 if doing so cost less than actually reducing emissions.

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Extended News; Government
KEYWORDS: capandtrade; carbon; carbondioxide; carbontrading; climatechange; co2; crapandtrade; emissions; globalscam; globalwarming; greenhousegases; rentseekers; rentseeking
CO2 for sale? (Algore has this all figured out.)
1 posted on 03/03/2007 3:49:49 AM PST by yoe
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To: yoe

This is an excellent background to the current politics of the greens and the green targets.


2 posted on 03/03/2007 4:05:09 AM PST by The Raven
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To: yoe
. . . in turn, any stringent CO2 cap would inevitably have serious economic costs.

The next time some airhead tells you how they support controls on CO2 emissions, ask if they are also willing to accept a lower standard of living or even lose their job to achieve it.

3 posted on 03/03/2007 4:14:57 AM PST by Jacquerie (Congress shall make no law respecting establishment of environmentalism.)
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To: yoe

The whole thing is a scam. They have finally figured out a way to sell a product that doesnt exist.

Gore already has a piece of the company that would arrange this scam.

They couldnt figure a way to put an oxygen meter on your body,and charge you to breath, so they will put a CO 2 meter on your business and charge you for producing it.

You can bet the guy at the paying end of this scheme wont be Albert Gore or babs Boxer, its will be John Q Citizen.

They are going to hose us deep again and expect us to thank them for it.


4 posted on 03/03/2007 4:23:20 AM PST by sgtbono2002 (I will forgive Jane Fonda, when the Jews forgive Hitler.)
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To: yoe; DaveLoneRanger; cogitator

Crap and trade.


5 posted on 03/03/2007 4:43:19 AM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (The Republican primary field SUCKS!!!)
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To: sgtbono2002

Just another ENRON style business plan, with a slight green tint. Invent a product that everyone needs, see to it that legislation provides the motivation and means, and viola. Instant revenue stream.


6 posted on 03/03/2007 4:49:53 AM PST by wita (truthspeaks@freerepublic.com)
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To: yoe

Perhaps we could have goodness credits.

You don't have to stop doing mean things, you only have to get someone else to live better to cancel your meanness.

Goodness credits.


Want to buy some?


7 posted on 03/03/2007 4:54:22 AM PST by SouthWall (Come to America to be American, speak American, work American, play American.)
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To: yoe; Killing Time; Beowulf; Mr. Peabody; RW_Whacko; honolulugal; gruffwolf; BlessedBeGod; Lusis; ...

FReepmail me to get on or off


Click pn POGW graphic for full GW rundown

Ping me if you find one I've missed.



8 posted on 03/03/2007 5:13:08 AM PST by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: yoe
Groundnut (peanut) farmers in Uganda are selling their peanut hulls to the local Portland cement plant to be burned for producing cement. The farmers receive payment for the hulls (waste) roughly equal to 50% of the value of the peanuts themselves!

Why?

The cement plant is owned by a European company who is able to sell the "Carbon Credits" earned by using a renewable fuel. These carbon credits are traded on the Carbon Exchange in Europe.

http://www.europeanclimateexchange.com/index_flash.php


The cement company is happy. The Ugandan farmers are VERY happy. The EU Carbon Trading Brokers, driving their BWM's & Porsches are happy. The European consumer is h.... (oops).
9 posted on 03/03/2007 6:21:46 AM PST by BwanaNdege ("Actions have consequences.")
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To: wita

I always wondered where Violas came from!!! Poof, voila a Viola.

P.S. No offense. Sometimes our typos are funnier than the intend text.


10 posted on 03/03/2007 6:59:50 AM PST by bjc (Check the data!!)
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To: bjc

He who lives in a glasshouse and all that!!

intend ==> intended


11 posted on 03/03/2007 7:02:03 AM PST by bjc (Check the data!!)
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To: bjc

Durn, blew right by me. Didn't even do a spell check, and to think, I coulda had violin or base fiddle in there.


12 posted on 03/03/2007 7:41:29 AM PST by wita (truthspeaks@freerepublic.com)
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To: wita
Just another ENRON style business plan, with a slight green tint. Invent a product that everyone needs, see to it that legislation provides the motivation and means, and viola. Instant revenue stream.

This is worse than Enron. At least their business was, to some extent, based on a real product that people really do need.

'Invent'?? I think 'legislate' (or 'conjure up') would be a more appropriate term.

'A product'?? The only product involved here is a piece of paper that, without the government-imposed caps, would have no value whatsoever.

'That everyone needs'?? Just like the 'product', the need for it can only be created by law.

13 posted on 03/03/2007 8:12:26 AM PST by Bob
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To: yoe

"If you get too cold I'll tax the heat."
-Beatles


14 posted on 03/03/2007 8:15:35 AM PST by Mike Darancette (Democrat Happens!)
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To: yoe

To look at CO2 as a waste product is, well, wasteful.

MIT has proven that when CO2 is bubbled through water tanks with algae, even in the weak sun of Massachusetts, it grew prodigiously, and was of a variety optimal for making biodiesel and even some ethanol.

That is, it turned waste CO2 into valuable fuel at low cost.

So why should corporations spend lots of money and suffer inconvenience when with a modest investment of tanks, water and pipes, it could make a profit that keeps on giving?

It doesn't even have to refine the algae itself. Some other company could periodically dredge harvest ton after ton of algae and haul it away in trucks, or even railroad cars, leaving payment in exchange.

In sunnier places, the tanks might even be designed to continuously dredge, leaving mountain of algae ready for processing.


15 posted on 03/03/2007 8:37:27 AM PST by Popocatapetl
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To: Popocatapetl

Sorry, Pop, you don't have an intuitive feel for the amount of CO2 generated by the power, cement and transportation industries. You'd probably have to slime every square inch of earth's land are with algae to accomodate all the CO2 generated by consumers and industry. Granted CO2 is a useful input to some industrial processes, but there is an enormous imbalance between CO2 demand and CO2 "supply".


16 posted on 03/03/2007 8:48:33 AM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

Well, the DOE says the US produces about 7B tons of CO2 per year. Of that, as a wild guess, let's say 2B tons could be put into biodiesel production, though that is probably a liberal guess.

Algae consumption of CO2 gas is about 60% efficient, so perhaps it is not as unreasonable as all that.

Every process that we use only makes sense at the low end of the curve, before the law of diminishing returns kicks in.

But it still makes of lot of sense compared to throwing CO2 away.


17 posted on 03/03/2007 9:34:38 AM PST by Popocatapetl
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To: yoe
It would do nothing for the environment. For liberals its about feeling good and for business, it gets the government off their back and creates new profitable opportunities for them. For every one else, its a scam that will just drive up their costs.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

18 posted on 03/03/2007 9:40:12 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: sgtbono2002
They're selling offsets. Its not even a real product. Its really a Ponzi scam. People are just paying to feel good but there's nothing of value in this market. If the government didn't create it, it wouldn't exist because its not viable in a real free market. You would think people would figure by now they're simply shuffling papers around but they won't reduce global warming. To do that, they have to shut down the economy. At that point, the whole thing would have collapsed of its own weight. So ask yourself who the proponents of this scheme are really fooling. Similiar schemes are already illegal since you can't open a business or conduct trading of any kind that brings no real value to the investor/consumer.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

19 posted on 03/03/2007 9:47:25 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

Yes: As I said ,another crooked scam with Al Gore right in the middle of it.


20 posted on 03/03/2007 1:32:24 PM PST by sgtbono2002 (I will forgive Jane Fonda, when the Jews forgive Hitler.)
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To: Shermy; NormsRevenge; Carry_Okie; SierraWasp
We don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to make a buck. But there's a difference between making money by producing things people want and making money by gaming the regulatory process. There's no market here unless the government creates one, and who has the profit opportunity depends entirely on who the government picks as the winners and the losers in designing this market in the first place.

Good straightforward article exposing the hypocrisy of CAP-and-trade.

21 posted on 03/03/2007 2:54:14 PM PST by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: yoe

CAP = Climate Action Partnership. I propose renaming it the Corporate Ripoff Action Partnership. I leave development of a suitable acronym to the reader.

http://carbonoffsets.blogspot.com/2007/03/al-gores-tale-with-due-credit-to.html
In medieval times, a pardoner was a charlatan who sold people indulgences, or pardons for their sins. You could even buy pardons for the souls of deceased relatives, so as to reduce their time in Purgatory. With due credit to Geoffrey Chaucer for the original:

Now, good men, Earth forgive you each trespass,
And keep you from the sin of greenhouse gas.
My carbon offsets cure and will suffice,
So that it gains me gold, or silver brings,
Or else, I care not- brooches, spoons or rings.
You must embrace fully Al Gore's line of bull,
While o'er your eyes we will pull the wool!
An offset certificate I'll give you, anon,
And into environmental bliss you'll go, each one.
For I'll absolve you, by Kyoto's special power,
You that send me money, as Green this hour
As you were born.
And lo, sirs, thus I preach.
And the United Nations, who is a parasitic leech,
So grant you each his offset to receive;
For that is best; I will not you deceive.
But, sirs, you must swallow my whole tale;
I've carbon credits in my pouch that cannot fail,
As good as Kyoto Treaty ever saw, I vow,
The which I got by kindness of Al Gore.
If dollars your change of heart and mind reveal,
You'll get my absolution while you kneel.
Come forth, and send me your lucre bright,
And quickly I'll set your consciences aright;
Or else receive a carbon credit as you wend,
All new and fresh as every mile shall end,
So that you offer me each time, anew,
More gold and silver, all good coins and true.
It is an honour to each one that's here
That you may have a competent pardoner
To give you carbon offsets to you acquit,
For all greenhouse gases you may emit.

Luckily, this SCAM and FRAUD is being exposed (rapidly) for what it is.


22 posted on 03/03/2007 4:40:21 PM PST by Winged Hussar
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To: calcowgirl

bump.


23 posted on 03/03/2007 5:37:11 PM PST by Shermy
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To: calcowgirl; ElkGroveDan; NormsRevenge; Issaquahking; sergeantdave; tubebender; hedgetrimmer; ...
"the hypocrisy of CAP-and-trade"

Ha Ha Ha!!! I been putin my carbon footprint in chem trails all over the friendly skies of United last week!!! Those 757's are a beautiful thing, like most of man's other creations made possible by God!!!

It would be blastphemy to convert to the NEO-PAGAN's GANG-GREEN religion with Algore as it's high priest!!! The proof of this was at the "Oscars!"

Can you imagine "The OPRAH" callin him the new NOAH??? Yes!!! Oprah Winfee called Algore "the new Noah!" Now a Republademocrat Governor of CA is his biggest "Born Again Pagan" desciple with undying swoonery by far too many FReepers!!!

The only reason I saw so many pigs flyin out my windows is because they're all souped up on evil spirits from deceptive demogogICK DemonicratICKs!!!

24 posted on 03/03/2007 10:56:34 PM PST by SierraWasp (Get the Recall petition papers ready for signing up to Recall Arnold in the Feb. 2008 Primary!!!)
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To: wita; Grampa Dave; Dog Gone; Ernest_at_the_Beach
"Instant revenue stream."

Yes, but... Just like natural streams of liquid water, diversions happen!!!

25 posted on 03/03/2007 10:59:49 PM PST by SierraWasp (Get the Recall petition papers ready for signing up to Recall Arnold in the Feb. 2008 Primary!!!)
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