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American Airlines Flight 62: A Terrorist Probe?
The Aviation Nation ^ | March 5, 2007 | By Annie Jacobsen

Posted on 03/05/2007 8:55:22 AM PST by aculeus

The following is an email I received detailing a “serious probe” on board American Airlines flight 62 traveling from Paris to Miami. The information comes to me second-hand — from a trusted source in the field. American Airlines spokesman John Hotard confirmed the incident on flight 62 with me, stating “there was a disturbance on board, it was handled by crew.” I asked Mr. Hotard the status of the men who were detained by FBI. Hotard told me “for security reasons, I can’t comment further.”

Here it is, unedited:

“This is not meant to scare, but it probably will. Consider yourself informed and warned that the threat is real. This crew reported that they were not prepared that something of this nature could be happening to them.

Flt 62, Paris to MIA [Miami], a few weeks ago. 2 maybe 4 mid-eastern types causing minor disturbance from the get-go. Nothing that the FAs [flight attendants] couldn’t deal with, but, in hindsight, they seemed to be pushing the envelope. Cross-cabin activity, hanging out in the forward galley, complaining about everything, etc. Mid-Atlantic, the FO [First Officer, or Co-Pilot] called to return to the cockpit after his crew-rest break. One of the perps [perpetrators] was in the forward galley, was instructed by a FA to go aft, but didn’t. As the cockpit door opened, another perp suddenly appeared from around the galley, dropped his shoulder into FO while the first one got in the way of the FO’s attempt to block the other…here I’m not certain…so….wait for the movie.

FO (one of our first FFDO’s [Federal Flight Deck Officers*]) was about to pull his flashlight to use as a weapon in a counter attack, but thought better of it not knowing how many more perps he might have to fight, called “lockdown” to the FB [secondary “B” First Officer], inside the cockpit, who slammed the door. As soon as the perps heard the word lockdown, they retreated to their seats.

I’m not doing justice to the story, but, if not an attempt on the cockpit, this was a serious probe.

Crew considered divert, but since the threat diminished and seemed to be contained, they pressed on towards MIA. Flight was met in MIA by FBI, FAMS [Federal Air Marshal Service] (none aboard, by the way), AA [American Airlines] Security suits, etc. During the de-brief, which lasted several hours, the FAMs told the pilots that they would have “dropped” both of the perps with the first shove near the cockpit door. Perps claimed to not understand English, were detained for 4 days and deported, back to Paris, when they are free to attend Sunday school, tell their buddies of their Adventure and plan their next move.

Enjoying the story so far? It’s good we can’t carry guns on Int’l [International] trips, eh?

Upsetting is that we all have to learn of this, by happenstance. Why didn’t you and your last crew know of this? We took a delay yesterday while this FB detailed the entire event to my crew. Believe me, there were no disbelievers that the terrorist threat is real in my crew by the time we boarded.

I’m more than upset that this is still a secret! The FB is a man I’ve flown with often, trust completely and attended FFDO (Federal Flight Deck Officer) training with a year ago January. I hope I’ve presented his story accurately, but am certain that the basic details are very close.

***********************

On a separate note, American Airlines flight 63, also traveling from Paris to Miami, was the subject of a thwarted terrorist attack in December of 2001 when “shoe bomber” Richard Reid tried to bring down the aircraft by igniting explosives hidden in his shoes. Reid was later found guilty of terrorism charges in federal court in Massachusetts and sentenced to life in prison.

* Armed Federal Flight Deck Officers are not allowed to carry their guns while flying international routes.


TOPICS: Front Page News; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: anniejacobsen; flight62; gwot; highestalert; wot
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1 posted on 03/05/2007 8:55:24 AM PST by aculeus
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To: aculeus

They know the only time they can possibly get access to the cockpit is when some one exits or enters. Schedules are routine. Fix the schedules of rest breaks, etc../.......


2 posted on 03/05/2007 9:01:05 AM PST by Red Badger (Britney Spears shaved her head............Well, that's one way of getting rid of headlice.........)
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To: aculeus
I have no doubts that the "probes" continue and the enemy is gathering inforamtion for a future opeartion against us.

It also conitues in the interior of the country at national and regional infrastructure sites.

We must let our people be armed on international flights. These two terrorists should have been dropped on this flight...but there was no one with the weapon to do so.

I believe this, that the passengers, upon learning that ME men have taken a flight, will not allow it to continue, IMHO, viza viz Flight 93 type ction.

3 posted on 03/05/2007 9:04:16 AM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: aculeus; nw_arizona_granny; Calpernia; Cindy; nwctwx; callmejoe; StillProud2BeFree

ping


4 posted on 03/05/2007 9:05:32 AM PST by Velveeta
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To: Jeff Head

bttt


5 posted on 03/05/2007 9:05:47 AM PST by txhurl
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To: aculeus

Well it appears we have an idea where the next attack will come from.


6 posted on 03/05/2007 9:05:58 AM PST by stockpirate (Rudy would be Very Bad for this country and Very Bad for the Republican Party!)
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To: aculeus

Move along. Nothing to see. Sounds a lot like those "musicians" headed to Vegas a few years ago.


7 posted on 03/05/2007 9:06:51 AM PST by mtbopfuyn (I think the border is kind of an artificial barrier - San Antonio councilwoman Patti Radle)
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To: Red Badger

Agree. Crews may have to forego breaks outside of the cockpit, or reevaluate their procedures against being waylaid when entering or leaving the cockpit. We evidently have muslim psychopaths in final stage of training, who are hot to finish Reid's job and take down an aircraft to get to their 72 virgins.


8 posted on 03/05/2007 9:07:59 AM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: mtbopfuyn

Exactly. Despite how it was portrayed, the professionals know and have taken note and preparations accordingly.


9 posted on 03/05/2007 9:08:58 AM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: aculeus

These kinds of stories are a concern but I'm much more worried about MANPADS which have likely already been smuggled in to the US.


10 posted on 03/05/2007 9:11:01 AM PST by isthisnickcool (Oh! The Obamanation! Durka durka durka...)
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To: Velveeta

bump


11 posted on 03/05/2007 9:12:07 AM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Aeronaut

aviation ping


12 posted on 03/05/2007 9:12:31 AM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: silverleaf

If they know the FO, etc. will come out at exactly 2 hours +/- a few minutes for his break, all they have to do is start some diversion in the galley over some stupid coffee or other trash, get the FA's distracted and wait for the door latch to move. The forward galleys should be OFF LIMITS to ALL passengers for a period of time when the FO's can do their business. This is a TRIAL RUN. Expect many more. I have no doubt that this was a PROBE of the defenses..........


13 posted on 03/05/2007 9:17:45 AM PST by Red Badger (Britney Spears shaved her head............Well, that's one way of getting rid of headlice.........)
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To: aculeus

Here's hoping no one links to this post in the next 6-18 months in profound retrospect...


14 posted on 03/05/2007 9:19:47 AM PST by GreenAccord
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To: Red Badger

Nothing could comes from the France.


15 posted on 03/05/2007 9:21:10 AM PST by Nick Thimmesch
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To: silverleaf

Crews can't and won't forgo breaks. Their bladders are just like yours and 8 hours is a little long.


16 posted on 03/05/2007 9:21:59 AM PST by saganite
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To: Nick Thimmesch
"Nothing could comes from the France."

????

Carolyn

17 posted on 03/05/2007 9:26:55 AM PST by CDHart ("It's too late to work within the system and too early to shoot the b@#$%^&s."--Claire Wolfe)
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To: aculeus
They will keep trying until they succeed. Terrorists love big explosions and the mass deaths of innocents, which is why the airplane will continue to be the weapon of choice for the foreseeable future.

Stay vigilant, America.
18 posted on 03/05/2007 9:27:29 AM PST by reagan_fanatic (Have patience with me Jesus - I'm trying)
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To: saganite

Why not use some portable potty for flight crew?


19 posted on 03/05/2007 9:28:05 AM PST by catbertz
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To: LucyT

ping


20 posted on 03/05/2007 9:29:23 AM PST by justche (Freedom and Security go together - Ronald Reagan)
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To: saganite

What would you suggest? I fly all the time and, especially on international flights...the lights are off half of the time, most people are sleeping, if you are in economy you have no idea what is going in the front section of the airplane, where most people are kicked back in recliners...it is scary easy to see how the cockpit could be breached in a flat second.


21 posted on 03/05/2007 9:31:24 AM PST by KsSunflower
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To: Oorang; all4one; freeperfromnj; Rushmore Rocks; MamaDearest; WestCoastGal

ping


22 posted on 03/05/2007 9:31:33 AM PST by Velveeta
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To: aculeus
Something is obviously wrong here: "was instructed by a FA to go aft, but didn’t. As the cockpit door opened,. . ."

Why, in the blue blazes, would the flight crew allow the door to be opened with a passenger present who had already disobeyed the FA?!?

23 posted on 03/05/2007 9:36:03 AM PST by the_Watchman
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To: aculeus

Thenks for posting. BTTT!


24 posted on 03/05/2007 9:36:46 AM PST by PGalt
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To: Velveeta
While I would hesitate to say this is not a probe of some sort, I would not be surprised to hear that these folks were more or less pushing the limits to cause a disturbance. I know that several Muslim groups in the U.S. have more or less advocated such "civil disobedience". The fact that these guys are not Americans obviously raises more flags when thinking about probing for future attacks--but I think that the real probers are going to be a little more cautious and discrete.
25 posted on 03/05/2007 9:37:10 AM PST by nwctwx (Everything I need to know, I learned on the Threat Matrix)
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To: Red Badger
The whole thing, including the connected incident with the 5 Imams praying at the airport, could well be a diversion. Generally Muslims prefer targets that aren't ready to defend themselves. Aircraft have become hard targets. They only do this to keep the security bureaucrats thinking( ? ) about aircraft. Meanwhile the Muslims are planning something else. This is a feint in the war against Koranic tererny.
26 posted on 03/05/2007 9:37:51 AM PST by Leisler (REAL ENVIRONMENTALISTS WALK.)
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To: catbertz
Why not use some portable potty for flight crew?

Or astronut diapers.

27 posted on 03/05/2007 9:38:08 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: Leisler

tererny = tyranny


28 posted on 03/05/2007 9:40:12 AM PST by Leisler (REAL ENVIRONMENTALISTS WALK.)
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To: KsSunflower

This crew violated their own procedures. If they had done as they were trained it wouldn't have happened.


29 posted on 03/05/2007 9:42:29 AM PST by saganite
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To: catbertz

Are you kidding me? The day they lock us up in the cockpit like monkeys at a zoo is the day I turn in my resignation.


30 posted on 03/05/2007 9:43:51 AM PST by saganite
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To: Leisler

I'm expecting a attack from a sea-borne source. A boat or small craft laden with explosives on a cruise ship, military vessel or oil/cargo ship or drilling rig. That would send the global economy for a loop..............


31 posted on 03/05/2007 9:43:54 AM PST by Red Badger (Britney Spears shaved her head............Well, that's one way of getting rid of headlice.........)
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To: aculeus

I think the best way to deal with perps like this is to have it pre-arranged with the cockpit crew that upon a certain code word, the 'fasten seat belts' light comes on, the plane drops down to about 2000 feet, and the FFDOs and the FAs grab the sumb!tches, open the emergency door, and just throw their damn asses out.

If it's over land, they won't survive the fall, if it's over water, the sharks have to suck it up and eat some unappetizing food.

Problem solved.

When boarding, all passengers are given multi-language instructions which read "Want to arrive at your destination alive? - Do NOT interfere with the operation of this aircraft, nor with the crew. Any deviation may result in your experiencing a unexpected and violent death."


32 posted on 03/05/2007 9:44:23 AM PST by mkjessup (My mechanic said "I can't fix your brakes, so I made your horn louder" - Stephen Wright)
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To: the_Watchman; saganite
...would the flight crew allow the door to be opened with a passenger present who had already disobeyed the FA?!?

Exactly. There should have been some signal for the FO's to know there were unauthorized persons in the vicinity of the doors. Are there cameras for them to use to see what's going on outside their door?..........

33 posted on 03/05/2007 9:46:35 AM PST by Red Badger (Britney Spears shaved her head............Well, that's one way of getting rid of headlice.........)
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To: Jeff Head
I believe this, that the passengers, upon learning that ME men have taken a flight, will not allow it to continue, IMHO, viza viz Flight 93 type ction.

I might agree with you on US domestic flight, but this was an outbound from France. I'd assume that most passengers are French, not Americans returning home. I'm not so sure that the French passengers would react the same way.

-PJ

34 posted on 03/05/2007 9:47:43 AM PST by Political Junkie Too (It's still not safe to vote Democrat.)
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To: Red Badger
I know that these are small spaces, but what about a double-door system, like an airlock. Have the FO exit the cockpit via the inner door, lock it, then open the outer door to the cabin? Put a camera and intercom in the between space.

-PJ

35 posted on 03/05/2007 9:50:00 AM PST by Political Junkie Too (It's still not safe to vote Democrat.)
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To: Political Junkie Too
I was just in France in December, picking up my son and touring northern France where he had served for the last two years with our church.

The politics in France is as split as it is here. I was impressed with how many solidly conservative people there were there and how many of them wished us, and America, God's speed, despite the antics of their own government. They hope to gain ground in their next elections...just as we hope to gain back lost ground ourselves.

So, I think there may well be enough who would act given what I experienced there in December.

36 posted on 03/05/2007 9:52:46 AM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Jeff Head
I believe this, that the passengers, upon learning that ME men have taken a flight, will not allow it to continue, IMHO, viza viz Flight 93 type ction. I don't know about you guys, but if I saw these assholes trying to rush the cabin, I wouldn't think twice about killing them.
37 posted on 03/05/2007 9:57:47 AM PST by jack_napier
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To: Jeff Head
Northern France, in the Normandy region, is much different than Paris, where the "youth" uprisings have occured near the airport. I hope you're right.

-PJ

38 posted on 03/05/2007 10:06:11 AM PST by Political Junkie Too (It's still not safe to vote Democrat.)
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To: jack_napier
Agreed...nor should we. They are a ruthless enemy intent on killing as many of us, including women and children, as possible and then believing God rewards them with 72 virgins for doing so.

Perverted, twisted thinking on a societal scale amongst these fanatical Islamics. Every bit as dangerous and ruthless as the Nazis or IMperialist Japanese fanatics of World War II.

39 posted on 03/05/2007 10:08:15 AM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: saganite

ahhh perhaps they could relieve themselves in the iced cups of the islamofascists hanging out in the forward galley...

teeman


40 posted on 03/05/2007 10:08:39 AM PST by teeman8r
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To: aculeus
"* Armed Federal Flight Deck Officers are not allowed to carry their guns while flying international routes."

Another good reason tofly El Al.

41 posted on 03/05/2007 10:09:43 AM PST by cookcounty (How odd. Lee Hamilton now employed by Sandy Berger: stonebridge-international.com)
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To: teeman8r

Yeah, I know, lock em up in the cockpit. It's been proposed by some of the imbeciles running the TSA. It didn't fly then and it certainly won't fly now. No pun intended.


42 posted on 03/05/2007 10:11:23 AM PST by saganite
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To: aculeus
I think the airlines should adopt an updated version of the old maritime tradition of keel-hauling. Let's see how these muzzies like a nice 500+ kt breeze in their faces.
43 posted on 03/05/2007 10:13:26 AM PST by LIConFem
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To: Political Junkie Too
I visited Paris (and had a number of people say the same things there), Orlean, Topurs, Nantes, Brest, and Cherbourg.

Having said that, one of their obvious and clear problems, and one these people had no problem articulating about just like many of us speak out about our own similar immigration problem, is that they have a large population of muslims who are very restless.

44 posted on 03/05/2007 10:13:44 AM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: aculeus
One of the perps [perpetrators] was in the forward galley, was instructed by a FA to go aft, but didn’t.

THAT should have triggered a "lockdown" and general high security status. On a commercial passenger aircraft, there should be ZERO tolerance for passengers not complying with crew members' instructions. No English? How much English does it take to understand when a crew member is pointing aft and saying something directly to you in a stern voice?

"No English" should not be an excuse, but it would be a good idea to have all passengers required to list what languages they understand when purchasing a ticket, and print an instruction on their ticket in one of those languages and in English that if any crew member says something to you that you don't understand, you should respond by immediately returning to your own seat and sitting down in it, or to a different seat if the crew member leads you to a different one. It's a simple concept, and wouldn't be hard to make part of common knowledge, just like buckling your seat belt for take-off and landing. It would enable passengers to demonstrate that they are attempting to behave appropriately, and enable crew to quickly identify passengers who are not attempting to behave appropriately and be legally protected if they use physical force to control such a passenger.

45 posted on 03/05/2007 10:16:47 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: the_Watchman
Why, in the blue blazes, would the flight crew allow the door to be opened with a passenger present who had already disobeyed the FA?!?

First thing that occured to me.
Why anyone is allowed in the galley areas near the cockpit post 911 has always baffled me. I've done it, my family has done it, in the 70s and 80s.

The new rules announced recently by one airline, the use of first class rest rooms by anyone just makes a bad situation worse.

As an aside, what is the point of having rules aboard an aircraft if there's no means of enforcing them?

By definition, murderers don't do rules.

46 posted on 03/05/2007 10:17:11 AM PST by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: Jeff Head
So, I think there may well be enough who would act given what I experienced there in December.

IIRC A French passenger or two were involved in the takedown of Richard Reid, the wannabe shoe bomber.

47 posted on 03/05/2007 10:17:36 AM PST by aculeus (Ceci n'est pas une tagline.)
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To: Jeff Head
I stand corrected, then. Gladly.

-PJ

48 posted on 03/05/2007 10:19:58 AM PST by Political Junkie Too (It's still not safe to vote Democrat.)
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To: aculeus

May or may not have been a probe, but I seriously doubt it was an attempt to take over the plane, unless they just wanted to destroy it alone. Mid-Atlantic is way too far out to use the plane as a weapon.


49 posted on 03/05/2007 10:28:48 AM PST by green iguana
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To: Jeff Head
We must let our people be armed on international flights. These two terrorists should have been dropped on this flight...but there was no one with the weapon to do so.

I'm not so sure about that. It's very difficult to tell who "our people" are, given that some people who have been firmly identified as terrorist operatives are US citizens with no criminal record. And even genuinely well-intentioned US citizens can be muddle-headed or paranoid. Some passenger who's terrified from the start about possible terrorist activity on his flight might be trigger-happy -- e.g. might have responded to a commotion like this one by firing at one of the Arab trouble-makers, hitting a member of the crew, even the FO or FB coming out the cockpit door.

Granted in THIS situation, nobody should have been opening the cockpit door, but I don't trust every random US citizen with no criminal record to distinguish a situation like this one, from a situation in which an Arab-looking passenger is genuinely notifying a crew member of, say, his father having symptoms of a heart attack, and understandably sounding/acting agitated. The crew might well be able to discern that this was a genuine report and act accordingly, while a passenger some rows back might rush to assume the worst and shoot.

I would, however, like to see flight attendants trained to carry and use firearms to handle situations like this, and to ensure that there are always armed crew members on board, and out among the passengers, aware of emerging problems on a real-time basis.

50 posted on 03/05/2007 10:34:08 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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