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Beware the 'Christianists'?
Human Events ^ | 02/28/2007 | Robert Spencer

Posted on 03/10/2007 8:36:34 AM PST by ChessExpert

A new book climbing the New York Times Bestseller List warns Americans of a minority of religious fanatics who are hijacking a great religion and working to destroy the United States Constitution and set up a theocracy in America. Nonbelievers will be discriminated against or even summarily killed.

Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Muhammad Atta? No, James Dobson, Pat Robertson, and Tim LaHaye. ...

(Excerpt) Read more at humanevents.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: ac; atheists; christianity; christophobes; lahaye; liberalfools; liberals; lunatics; persecution; robertson
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I am in complete agreement with Robert Spencer on this one. Liberals have a history of attacking imaginary enemies while trying to ignore real enemies. I think someone defined wisdom as knowing what is important. Dennis Prager says one can be smart and leftist, but one cannot be wise and leftist. Scaring yourself silly about false threats, while remaining blind to real threats is the epitome of folly and liberalism. I aplaud Robert Spencer for calling the liberals on their latest folly.
1 posted on 03/10/2007 8:36:34 AM PST by ChessExpert
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To: ChessExpert
Beware the Christophobes.
2 posted on 03/10/2007 8:40:14 AM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: ChessExpert

My brother suffers from Bush Derangement Syndrome. He is convinced that we currently live in a theocracy and that it should be illegal for any churchgoer to be elected president. "That's what the First Amendment means" he says.


3 posted on 03/10/2007 8:41:50 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Enoch Powell was right.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Everyone has some sort of belief system. Whether it's Christianity or something else. That belief system could be called a religion of some sort. So no one is qualified to be elected President.


4 posted on 03/10/2007 8:43:59 AM PST by Borges
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To: ClearCase_guy

No offense, but your brother is an idiot...and an illiterate one at that!


5 posted on 03/10/2007 8:44:03 AM PST by Bommer (Global Warming: The only warming phenomena that occurs in the Summer and ends in the Winter!)
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To: ChessExpert
Should we turn our attention away from a real threat to an imagined one? That is what Chris Hedges and the other anti-theocracy writers are asking us to do. While fiction has always competed with reality in the public discourse about the Islamic jihad, the Christian theocracy scare books represent projection on a massive scale. Unfortunately, while Chris Hedges leads the hunt for Christian theocrats under our bed, real theocrats continue to advance a violent supremacist agenda worldwide. We ignore or dismiss that at our own risk.

Bingo. The Muslims are too "oppressed" and "down-trodden" to warrant the attention of Chris Hodges. Christians in America though are, and have always been the perfect targets for men like Hodges as Christians don't make a habit of beheading unbelievers.

6 posted on 03/10/2007 8:46:31 AM PST by Quick or Dead (Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms - Aristotle)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Sorry to hear that. I have had to cut off communication with one of my sisters because of her whacked out stands. I couldn't have one decent conversation with her about anything.


7 posted on 03/10/2007 8:46:35 AM PST by vpintheak (Like a muddied spring or a polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked)
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To: ClearCase_guy

I just hope that your brother's mental illness doesn't run in your family.


8 posted on 03/10/2007 8:46:39 AM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

How does he explain the fact that James Madison, author of the first amendment, was a "churchgoer" and a President?


9 posted on 03/10/2007 8:47:33 AM PST by msnimje (Anybody know of a good CONSERVATIVE website like the one Free Republic used to be?)
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To: ChessExpert
Unfortunately, while Chris Hedges leads the hunt for Christian theocrats under our bed, real theocrats continue to advance a violent supremacist agenda worldwide. We ignore or dismiss that at our own risk.

Worth repeating ....

10 posted on 03/10/2007 8:48:18 AM PST by Ken522
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To: msnimje

How does he explain that Jefferson sponsored worship services in the Senate chambers?


11 posted on 03/10/2007 8:51:47 AM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: ChessExpert

Peel away enough layers with any liberal, of any sort, and you will find someone who has "unresolved issues" with his Creator.


12 posted on 03/10/2007 8:52:08 AM PST by EternalVigilance (With "Republicans" like these, who needs Democrats?)
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To: ChessExpert
My Lord may have been led to the slaughter, mute like a lamb, but I have no prophetic obligation to do the same.

I have the modern day "sword" He commanded me to buy and I will use it in the event of any modern day persecution against Christians. I will send Satan's spawn straight to Hell in a heartbeat.

13 posted on 03/10/2007 8:52:21 AM PST by nonsporting
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To: Borges
Everyone has some sort of belief system. Whether it's Christianity or something else. That belief system could be called a religion of some sort.

Could't agree more...

Whatever one (does/does not) hold as spiritual/eternal convictions...
That holding defines ones morality/values structure....
Which in turn frames a philosophy of life...
...And their boundaries for personal/social behavior.

14 posted on 03/10/2007 8:52:46 AM PST by Wings-n-Wind (The answers remain available; Wisdom is obtained by asking all the right questions!)
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To: ChessExpert
This writer should have checked out David Barton and Wallbuilders.com and did a little historical research about our past Presidents, before writing this hit piece criticizing present-day Christians who have done more to spread the Gospel and feed the hungry in one day than he's done in his whole entire lifetime.

Sour grapes are bad fruit.

15 posted on 03/10/2007 9:00:45 AM PST by pray4liberty (http://totallyunjust.tripod.com)
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To: ChessExpert

I'll bet the Methodist ladies group down the street has some sinister plans for this Chris Hedges fellow.


16 posted on 03/10/2007 9:01:17 AM PST by labette (There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Must be difficult on holidays. Good luck with that.
17 posted on 03/10/2007 9:03:09 AM PST by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: ChessExpert
Watch (listen) to the socialists use more and more 'religious sounding' talk .... IMO, their clever effort to make a mockery of Jesus, their ultimate goal.

The bwitch last week in Selma, f'rinstance ... and I can't wait to hear how Hussien 'articulates' scripture.

18 posted on 03/10/2007 9:06:01 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
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To: ChessExpert
As Christians we are to be in the world, but not of the world. Ours is a conversion of heart, leading to a way of life that lives among others as an overwhelmingly attractive way to bring others to our Lord and Savior and as an alternative to chasing after empty pleasures. We are to be the the salt in the recipe, adding flavor and preserving the end product. We are to influence by our example and resist temptation to sin. I have no desire to "rule the world" in and of myself, but to hold out the hope of redemption and peace. It is my commission and my privilege to serve the One who loved us first and most of all.

The World that thinks the Love of my life is about anything other than that can place a big sweet kiss on my made in Heaven derriere.
19 posted on 03/10/2007 9:08:26 AM PST by Constitutions Grandchild
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird
We need to endlessly repeat the word, "Christaphobia", "Christaphobe", etc. It's basic marketing. You invent the term, and then you can invent fear OF FEAR --a basic leftist tactic that is highly effective.

You have to popularize a new word that becomes conventionalized; Drunk Driving, Gay, Assault Weapon, etc.

None of those changes in public attitude could have come about until the TERM had been created.

We need to EDUCATE people about CHRISTAPHOBES and CHRISTAPHOBIA. We need to EVEVATE people and SPREAD DISCOURSE.

20 posted on 03/10/2007 9:16:32 AM PST by gaijin
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird
Anybody remember "Blue Laws" and no alcohol sales on Sunday?

Any religion "running" things can be a bad thing. The total lack of any religion in running things can be a very bad thing.

I think balance and common sense with a religious founding is the best of everything.
21 posted on 03/10/2007 9:17:16 AM PST by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: ChessExpert

displacement:
noun

aggression toward a group that won't hurt you to mask fear of the group that will.


22 posted on 03/10/2007 9:18:29 AM PST by papertyger
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To: PeteB570
Anybody remember "Blue Laws" and no alcohol sales on Sunday?

Any religion "running" things can be a bad thing.

You sure you wanted to let that much out about yourself?

23 posted on 03/10/2007 9:20:30 AM PST by papertyger
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To: gaijin

Sagacious as always, gaijin.


24 posted on 03/10/2007 9:23:04 AM PST by papertyger
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To: Wings-n-Wind


Your comment about one's religious convictions determinimg their behavior is really good. Can you reference it?


25 posted on 03/10/2007 9:23:21 AM PST by whipitgood (When will the civil war between citizens and illegals begin?)
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To: PeteB570

Yes, I recall the Blue laws and they were something passed by local societies/states by a people who were largely Christian. Christians, however, were the majority in America for 200 years with plenty of opportunity to make America a theocracy. Why didn't they? Christians, for 200 years in America, basically ignored the government and structured their individual communities to suit themselves. That was freedom, the greatest nation ever to exist was a nation that was made up primarily by Christians. "Live and let live." was our motto. If someone sinned, we considered it his business and knew that he was headed for hell. We would try to get him to see the error of his ways and repent, but no other pressure was exerted, no laws passed to force him to repentence. We only began to get involved in politics when the liberal atheists started passing laws to force our way of life out of existence. No Prayer, No Ten Commandments, no religious expression of any kind in public, murder of babies, forced acceptance of sinful lifestyles, said lifestyle taught in our schools. Are we supposed to let them chip away at our religion and remain silent? Personally, I do not even recognize America any more.


26 posted on 03/10/2007 9:30:03 AM PST by WVNan
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To: ChessExpert

Hooray Robert Spencer!

Much, much more from Robert Spencer here...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/


27 posted on 03/10/2007 9:33:09 AM PST by PGalt
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To: papertyger
What?

About "blue laws", my age; Alcohol on Sunday, I do drink a beer now and again; or "religion" running things, I do at least a few things every religion could find unacceptable?

As I said I like balanced government based on a religious (Jewish-Christian) background.

While not the norm, most major religions of all kinds have some whacked out sects and individuals. I would hate to see any of them running things.
28 posted on 03/10/2007 9:33:18 AM PST by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: EternalVigilance
[... Peel away enough layers with any liberal, of any sort, and you will find someone who has "unresolved issues" with his Creator. ..]

That was pretty good...

29 posted on 03/10/2007 9:33:54 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: Borges
Everyone has some sort of belief system. Whether it's Christianity or something else. That belief system could be called a religion of some sort. So no one is qualified to be elected President.

Tell that to John Edwards. He just outed himself as a Christian.

30 posted on 03/10/2007 9:35:15 AM PST by pray4liberty (http://totallyunjust.tripod.com)
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To: ChessExpert

bookmark ping , &thanks ChessExpert


31 posted on 03/10/2007 9:35:36 AM PST by Dad yer funny (FoxNews is morphing , and not for the better ,... internal struggle? Its hard to watch)
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To: ChessExpert
To be fair, I have encountered my share of downright cocopuff religious voters on FR. Most notable were a few who insisted that adultery was a crime about as severe as murder, and that people should be locked up for it.

I really have to question the kind of mind that finds murder and adultery as comparable 'crimes,' let alone comparable sins. Even God ranked murder higher than adultery when He gave us the commandments.

Some of these folks are strange, indeed.
32 posted on 03/10/2007 9:38:23 AM PST by HitmanLV ("If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking until you do suck seed." - Jerry 'Curly' Howard)
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To: pray4liberty

I think you are talking about someone like Chris Hedges whose views are examined in the article. Robert Spencer is the author of the article. He criticizes the thinking of Hedges and others.


33 posted on 03/10/2007 9:39:32 AM PST by ChessExpert (Reagan defeated the Soviet Union despite the Democratic party. We could use another miracle.)
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To: WVNan

"If someone sinned, we considered it his business..."

Your point backed up my post. Blue laws were enacted by Christians to force others to do it/see it their way. If things should be banned or closed on Sunday so people could worship, then why not close/ban things from Friday - Sunday?

As I said, I would have a problem with "Religion", any religion, "Running" things. I have no problem with government grounded in a Jewish/Christian background.

I have no use for Sharia.


34 posted on 03/10/2007 9:40:25 AM PST by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: ChessExpert

Even the NYT gave this book a stinker review.


35 posted on 03/10/2007 9:45:45 AM PST by montag813
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To: HitmanLV
Even God ranked murder higher than adultery when He gave us the commandments.

How so?

Both were punishable by death.

36 posted on 03/10/2007 9:48:40 AM PST by papertyger
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To: Borges
Everyone has some sort of belief system. Whether it's Christianity or something else. That belief system could be called a religion of some sort.

There are some here who will argue with you about that, just as they have argued with me.

They believe in nothing, and are very sincere about it, claiming that it is not a belief.

Confusing words, at least for me, but they will argue that 'belief' endlessly.

37 posted on 03/10/2007 9:51:44 AM PST by Balding_Eagle (If America falls, darkness will cover the face of the earth for a thousand years.)
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To: papertyger

Thou shall not murder is ranked #6 and Thou shall not commit adultery is ranked #7. Even with different numbering conventions, the prohibition against murder is ranked ahead of the prohibition against adultery.


38 posted on 03/10/2007 9:51:47 AM PST by HitmanLV ("If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking until you do suck seed." - Jerry 'Curly' Howard)
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To: PeteB570
What?

If you find inability to purchase alcohol on Sunday that onerous, I question your initial premise.

What do you say about the "balance" when the "balance" doesn't allow you to do something?

39 posted on 03/10/2007 9:53:29 AM PST by papertyger
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To: ClearCase_guy
My brother suffers from Bush Derangement Syndrome. He is convinced that we currently live in a theocracy and that it should be illegal for any churchgoer to be elected president. "That's what the First Amendment means" he says.

More evidence that intelligence is not genetically based.

40 posted on 03/10/2007 9:56:56 AM PST by CharacterCounts
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To: HitmanLV

You know I'm not trying to insult you Hitman, but you are mistaken.

Think of the comandments like the bill of rights, not a ranking order.

As I said, both offenses were punishable by death in the old testament.


41 posted on 03/10/2007 9:57:04 AM PST by papertyger
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To: ChessExpert

I meant the author of the book, not the writer of the article. My bad. Hit post too soon.


42 posted on 03/10/2007 9:57:54 AM PST by pray4liberty (http://totallyunjust.tripod.com)
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To: EternalVigilance
You may be right. If one looks up, one learns which way is up. That can provide one's bearings on other matters.

Liberals. What can you say? Let's turn the clock back to the 1970s. Communists were atheist, anti-market, and totalitarian. The were pretty much the opposite of the United States, and they made their hostility known. The Soviet Union had thousands of missiles targeting thousands of U.S. cities. Each warhead was more powerful than the one used on Hiroshima, by orders of magnitude (10X or 100X or more). China's vast population was under communist control and could populate armies against the US. There was communist military aggression in Southeast Asia, Latin America, and Africa.

What was the greatest danger according to liberal Democrats in the 1970s. Well the Republican Party of course. People like Nixon, Goldwater, and Reagan. Another great danger was American industry that feeds us, clothes us, provides our transportation, gives us shelter, and warmth in the winter. And let's not forget what may have been the greatest danger of all - Global Cooling.
43 posted on 03/10/2007 10:00:36 AM PST by ChessExpert (Reagan defeated the Soviet Union despite the Democratic party. We could use another miracle.)
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To: pray4liberty

You made excellent points. I just wanted agreement on who you were pointing to!


44 posted on 03/10/2007 10:02:06 AM PST by ChessExpert (Reagan defeated the Soviet Union despite the Democratic party. We could use another miracle.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
"My brother suffers from Bush Derangement Syndrome. He is convinced that we currently live in a theocracy and that it should be illegal for any churchgoer to be elected president. "That's what the First Amendment means" he says."

I know how your brother feels, I get so tired of hearing that squeaky call to prayer jingle five times a day and being forced to pray to Satan, I mean Allah. Having to go to Friday prayers, risking punishment or death if I don't. I have heard that Christians, I mean polyhtheists, in America have armed soldiers knock on every door on every street and force the inhabitants to go to government churches every Sunday morning. They are also made to kneel down by their bedside every night and pray, so at least they are being forced against their will to worship like we are.

45 posted on 03/10/2007 10:03:49 AM PST by theymakemesick (Under sharia law, bacon will be illegal in Americistan, reason enough to keep islam out of America)
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To: papertyger
If all the commandments tie in significance, why isn't that explicit in scripture anywhere? They do appear to be ranked in terms of descending severity if you look at them with a clear mind. That is, murder appears to be more serious than coveting your neighbors belongings, at least to most people.

Also 'adultery' in that context isn't what it means today - it meant a man having sex with a married woman who is not his wife.

The biblical punishment for adultery is indeed death (Leviticus 20:10). But in the example of a married man having sex with a single woman, neither of them has committed adultery under the original understanding of the commandment. Not very fair, especially when life and death is involved.

The truth is, no civilized modern culture considers adultery a capital crime. Many biblical laws are ignored today even by the most religious folks. it's certainly bad and may be grounds to dissolve the marriage, but the only folks who consider it a crime tend to be aligned with the Taliban and those with similar worldviews.
46 posted on 03/10/2007 10:06:38 AM PST by HitmanLV ("If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking until you do suck seed." - Jerry 'Curly' Howard)
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To: HitmanLV
If all the commandments tie in significance, why isn't that explicit in scripture anywhere? They do appear to be ranked in terms of descending severity if you look at them with a clear mind.

FRiend, you are treading on things that have been the subject of intense study by wonderfully educated minds for literally millenia. Do you really want to be so glib in your assessment?

I don't want to take you apart on this, even with your crack about a "clear mind," but I assure you theology is something you only have a passing understanding of.

For example, if two items cost the same price, how do say they are not valued equally? How much more explicit do you need?

Also, no modern cultures burn witches anymore, either. But that is because they don't believe in witches, not because they don''t think the things witches were supposed to be able to do didn't merit death.

No, the Law was never followed perfectly, but your intent was to criticize some religious people for being more strict than God. I am pointing out your premise is faulty.

47 posted on 03/10/2007 10:28:17 AM PST by papertyger
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To: papertyger; PeteB570

>>Anybody remember "Blue Laws" and no alcohol sales on Sunday?

Any religion "running" things can be a bad thing.



You sure you wanted to let that much out about yourself?<<

Assuming that Pete meant "Blue Laws" to be laws based on enforcing a particular religious view and by "religion running things" that he meant theocracy - then I agree with his post.

Laws should be based on the constitutional authority that the people have voluntarily given to the government. The government should not be able to claim power beyond the constitution by claiming religious justification.

As a separate but also important issue our government is not empowered to forbid personal religious expression and has gone too far in some cases claiming a wall of seperation.


48 posted on 03/10/2007 10:28:43 AM PST by gondramB (It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark.)
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To: papertyger; HitmanLV

>>If all the commandments tie in significance, why isn't that explicit in scripture anywhere? They do appear to be ranked in terms of descending severity if you look at them with a clear mind.



FRiend, you are treading on things that have been the subject of intense study by wonderfully educated minds for literally millenia. Do you really want to be so glib in your assessment?<<

Hitman, fortunately for Christians Jesus clarified this for us.

From the Gospel of Mathew
>>36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love he Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.<<


49 posted on 03/10/2007 10:31:58 AM PST by gondramB (It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Well we know who the smart one in the family is.


50 posted on 03/10/2007 10:33:27 AM PST by pbear8 (Pray for our troops.)
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