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"Homosexuality Is Not Hardwired," Dr. Francis S. Collins, Head Of The Human Genome Project
NARTH ^ | March 12, 2007 | Dean Byrd

Posted on 03/16/2007 7:15:39 AM PDT by scripter

[Title slightly abbreviated to fit]

Francis S. Collins, one of the world's leading scientists who works at the cutting edge of DNA research, concluded that "there is an inescapable component of heritability to many human behavioral traits." However, he adds, "for virtually none of them, is heredity ever close to predictive."


Dr. Francis S. Collins
In reviewing the heritability (i.e., influence of genetic factors) on personality traits, Dr. Collins referenced the research of Bochard and McGue for the estimated percentage of these traits that can be ascribed to heredity.

The heritability estimates for personality traits were varied: General Cognitive Ability (50%), Extroversion (54%), Agreeableness (42%), Conscientiousness (49%), Neuroticism (48%), Openness (57%), Aggression (38%) and Traditionalism (54%).

Such estimates of heritability are based upon unbiased, careful analyses of studies conducted with identical twins. The studies lead to the conclusion that heredity is important in many of these personality traits. It is important however, to note that even in such studies with identical twins, that heritability is not to be confused as inevitability.

As Dr. Collins would agree, environment can influence gene expression, and free will determines the response to whatever predispositions might be present.

Dr. Collins succinctly reviewed the research on homosexuality and offers the following:

"An area of particularly strong public interest is the genetic basis of homosexuality. Evidence from twin studies does in fact support the conclusion that heritable factors play a role in male homosexuality. However, the likelihood that the identical twin of a homosexual male will also be gay is about 20% (compared with 2-4 percent of males in the general population), indicating that sexual orientation is genetically influenced but not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispositions, not predeterminations [emphasis added]."

The heritability estimates for homosexuality is substantially lower than General Cognitive Ability, Extroversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness, Neuroticism, Openness, Aggression and Traditionalism!

Dr. Collins noted that environment--particularly childhood experiences--as well as the role of free will and choice affect us all in profound ways. As researchers discover increasing levels of molecular detail about inherited factors that underlie our personalities, it's critical that such data be used to illuminate the issues, not provide support to ideologues.

Citing such dangers, Dr. Collins referred to the book written by activist Dean Hamer, who declared the discovery of the "God gene" (this same author also is associated with "discovering the gay gene").

Dr. Collins noted that the "evidence" in Hamer's book "grabbed headlines," but was "wildly overstated."

A reviewer in Scientific American suggested that Hamer's book on the "God gene" should have been titled, "A Gene That Accounts for Less than One Percent of the Variance Found in Scores on Psychological Questionnaires Designed to Measure a Factor Called Self-Transcendence, Which Can Signify Everything from Belonging to the Green Party to Believing in ESP, According to One Unpublished, Unreplicated Study."

Unfortunately, much of the research in areas such as homosexuality has been misrepresented; not only in the media, but also by the scientists themselves through a tendency to overestimate the quantitative contribution of their findings.

Regarding the contributions of genetics to areas such as homosexuality, Dr. Collins concluded, "Yes, we have all been dealt a particular set of cards, and the cards will eventually be revealed. But how we play the hand is up to us."

I agree.

Reference:
Collins, Francis S. (2006). The Language of God, A Scientist Presents Evidence For Belief. New York: Free Press.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-124 next last
New Evidence Found for Childhood Family Factors Influencing Sexual Orientation
Environmental factors may influence sexual orientation
The Study The Media Ignored
How Might Homosexuality Develop? Putting the Pieces Together
Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth
Born or Bred? Science Does Not Support the Claim That Homosexuality is Genetic
The Importance of Twin Studies
The Gay Gene?
The Fading "Gay Gene"
The Innate-Immutable Argument Finds No Basis in Science
The Gay Gene: Going, Going...Gone
1 posted on 03/16/2007 7:15:42 AM PDT by scripter
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To: scripter; AFA-Michigan; Agitate; AliVeritas; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; BabaOreally; Balke; BigFinn; ...
Homosexual Agenda Ping

Freepmail wagglebee or little jeremiah to subscribe or unsubscribe from the homosexual agenda ping list.

Click FreeRepublic homosexual agenda keyword search for a list of all related articles.

Add keywords homosexual agenda to flag FR articles to this ping list.

2 posted on 03/16/2007 7:16:23 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: scripter


Manbearping!

I have heard about the study of twins ad infinitum, and this is the first refutation of that study by an actual Scientist


3 posted on 03/16/2007 7:18:56 AM PDT by padre35 (I am from the "let's stop eating our own" wing of the Republican Party)
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To: scripter

This guy will have the Gaystapo at his door.


4 posted on 03/16/2007 7:19:00 AM PDT by Nextrush ( Chris Matthews Band: "I get high....I get high.....I get high.....McCain......")
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To: scripter

This is one of those duh issues. How many generations would such a gene last?


5 posted on 03/16/2007 7:19:07 AM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Duncan Hunter: pro-life, pro-2nd Amendment, pro-border control, pro-family)
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To: scripter

This guy will have the Gaystapo at his door.


6 posted on 03/16/2007 7:19:07 AM PDT by Nextrush ( Chris Matthews Band: "I get high....I get high.....I get high.....McCain......")
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To: scripter
The heritability estimates for homosexuality is substantially lower than General Cognitive Ability, Extroversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness, Neuroticism, Openness, Aggression and Traditionalism!

That says more than most realize.

7 posted on 03/16/2007 7:20:49 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: scripter
If your left with someone who molests you and plays on the temptation factor enough to make you think it's ok, you will end up thinking you are really a homo. Temptation is a tool of the Devil that can turn into anything more complicated and disgusting than anyone can imagine.
8 posted on 03/16/2007 7:21:25 AM PDT by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: padre35
I have heard about the study of twins ad infinitum, and this is the first refutation of that study by an actual Scientist

I think Collins' statement probably carries more weight with some folks, but many have refuted the twins studies, including homosexual scientists. Check this out: The Importance of Twin Studies

9 posted on 03/16/2007 7:26:24 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: scripter

Another inconvenient truth for the left.


10 posted on 03/16/2007 7:27:11 AM PDT by Ikemeister
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To: padre35

Just pray the gay away!


11 posted on 03/16/2007 7:28:17 AM PDT by nhoward14
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To: scripter
However, the likelihood that the identical twin of a homosexual male will also be gay is about 20% (compared with 2-4 percent of males in the general population), indicating that sexual orientation is genetically influenced but not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispositions, not predeterminations

This is a false conclusion in and of itself, the higher incidence could just as likely be due to environmental influences (which are highly shared among identical twins during their formative years, as genetic) To say this indicates defacto a genetic influence is an utterly false assumption.

Homosexuality, particularly male homosexuality is not a birth defect, its a mental disorder.

12 posted on 03/16/2007 7:28:32 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: Nextrush
This guy will have the Gaystapo at his door.

No doubt. They did the same to Robert Spitzer when he admitted homosexuals could leave the lifestyle. Check out: Spitzer Forced to Cancel Appearance to Discuss His Ex-'Gay' Study

13 posted on 03/16/2007 7:28:41 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: Nextrush
Sorry, I can't help but repeat myself. :-)

This guy will have the Gaystapo at his door.

No doubt. They did the same to Robert Spitzer when he admitted homosexuals could leave the lifestyle. Check out: Spitzer Forced to Cancel Appearance to Discuss His Ex-'Gay' Study

14 posted on 03/16/2007 7:29:44 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: Dixie Yooper
If you're left with someone who molests you and plays on the temptation factor enough to make you think it's ok, you will end up thinking you are really a homo.

When I first started studying this subject (years ago) I didn't think that was true. But after reading story after story after story from ex-gays, I have come to the conclusion, well I came to it a long time ago, that some homosexuals know exactly how to prey on vulnerable boys.

15 posted on 03/16/2007 7:33:05 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: scripter
Some people are born gay.  We've all met them.  That's just the way it is.

Some people learn to be gay.  We've all met them.  That's just the way it is.

16 posted on 03/16/2007 7:33:58 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (I'm holding out hope that at least the DEMOCRATS might accidentally nominate a conservative.)
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To: Ikemeister
Another inconvenient truth for the left.

Indeed. When discussing the facts of homosexuals, homosexuality and the homosexual agenda pushed by radicals, the left have nothing to stand on.

17 posted on 03/16/2007 7:35:17 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: HamiltonJay
This is a false conclusion in and of itself, the higher incidence could just as likely be due to environmental influences (which are highly shared among identical twins during their formative years, as genetic) To say this indicates defacto a genetic influence is an utterly false assumption.

They may be referring to linkage and association. Checkout the summary to Satinover's The Gay Gene?.

18 posted on 03/16/2007 7:37:37 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: Psycho_Bunny
Some people are born gay. We've all met them. That's just the way it is.

Yet not a single credible scientist agrees with the above statement. In fact science, including the posted article, is quite hostile to the born gay argument.

19 posted on 03/16/2007 7:39:15 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: nhoward14

Just pray the gay away!

That is kind of cute in a way.


20 posted on 03/16/2007 7:40:28 AM PDT by padre35 (I am from the "let's stop eating our own" wing of the Republican Party)
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To: scripter

Is Your Baby Gay? What If You Could Know? What If You Could Do Something About It?
http://www.albertmohler.com/blog.php
Posted: Friday, March 02, 2007 at 3:40 am ET

What if you could know that your unborn baby boy is likely to be sexually attracted to other boys? Beyond that, what if hormonal treatments could change the baby's orientation to heterosexual? Would you do it? Some scientists believe that such developments are just around the corner.

For some time now, scientists have been looking for a genetic or hormonal cause of sexual orientation. Thus far, no "gay gene" has been found -- at least not in terms of incontrovertible and accepted science. Yet, it is now claimed that a growing body of evidence indicates that biological factors may at least contribute to sexual orientation.

The most interesting research along these lines relates to the study of sheep. Scientists at the U.S. Sheep Experiment Station are conducting research into the sexual orientation of sheep through "sexual partner preference testing." As William Saletan at Slate.com explains:

A bare majority of rams turn out to be heterosexual. One in five swings both ways. About 15 percent are asexual, and 7 percent to 10 percent are gay.

Why so many gay rams? Is it too much socializing with ewes? Same-sex play with other lambs? Domestication? Nope. Those theories have been debunked. Gay rams don't act girly. They're just as gay in the wild. And a crucial part of their brains--the "sexually dimorphic nucleus"--looks more like a ewe's than like a straight ram's. Gay men have a similar brain resemblance to women. Charles Roselli, the project's lead scientist, says such research "strongly suggests that sexual preference is biologically determined in animals, and possibly in humans."

What makes the sheep "sexual partner preference testing" research so interesting is that the same scientists who are documenting the rather surprising sexual behaviors of male sheep think they can also change the sexual orientation of the animals. In other words, finding a biological causation for homosexuality may also lead to the discovery of a "cure" for the same phenomenon.

That's where the issue gets really interesting. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals [PETA] has called for an end to the research, while tennis star Martina Navratilova called the research "homophobic and cruel" and argued that gay sheep have a "right" to be homosexual. No kidding.

Homosexual activists were among the first to call for (and fund) research into a biological cause of homosexuality. After all, they argued, the discovery of a biological cause would lead to the normalization of homosexuality simply because it would then be seen to be natural, and thus moral.

But now the picture is quite different. Many homosexual activists recognize that the discovery of a biological marker or cause for homosexual orientation could lead to efforts to eliminate the trait, or change the orientation through genetic or hormonal treatments.

[]Tyler Gray addresses these issues in the current issue of Radar magazine. In "Is Your Baby Gay?," Gray sets out a fascinating scenario. A woman is told that her unborn baby boy is gay. This woman and her husband consider themselves to be liberal and tolerant of homosexuality. But this is not about homosexuality now; it is about their baby boy. The woman is then told that a hormone patch on her abdomen will "reverse the sexual orientation inscribed in his chromosomes." The Sunday Times [London] predicts that such a patch should be available for use on humans within the decade. Will she use it?

This question stands at the intersection of so many competing interests. Feminists and political liberals have argued for decades now that a woman should have an unrestricted right to an abortion, for any cause or for no stated cause at all. How can they now complain if women decide to abort fetuses identified as homosexual? This question involves both abortion and gay rights -- the perfect moral storm of our times.

Homosexual activists have claimed that sexual orientation cannot be changed. What if a hormone patch during pregnancy will do the job?

As Gray suggests:

In a culture that encourages us to customize everything from our Nikes to our venti skinny lattes, perhaps it is only a matter of time before baby-making becomes just another consumer transaction. Already have a girl? Make this one a boy! Want to impress your boho friends? Make a real statement with lesbian twins!

More to the point, Gray understands that such a development would reshape the abortion and gay-rights debates in America:

Conservatives opposed to both abortion and homosexuality will have to ask themselves whether the public shame of having a gay child outweighs the private sin of terminating a pregnancy (assuming the stigma on homosexuality survives the scientific refutation of the Right's treasured belief that it is a "lifestyle choice.") Pro-choice activists won't be spared either. Will liberal moms who love their hairdressers be as tolerant when faced with the prospect of raising a little stylist of their own? And exactly how pro-choice will liberal abortion-rights activists be when thousands of potential parents are choosing to filter homosexuality right out of the gene pool?

The development of Preimplantation Genetic Diagnosis [PDG] is one of the greatest threats to human dignity in our times. These tests are already leading to the abortion of fetuses identified as carrying unwanted genetic markers. The tests can now check for more than 1,300 different chromosomal abnormalities or patterns. With DNA analysis, the genetic factors could be identified right down to hair and eye color and other traits. The logic is all too simple. If you don't like what you see on the PDG report . . . just abort and start over. Soon, genetic treatments may allow for changing the profile. Welcome to the world of designer babies.

If that happens, how many parents -- even among those who consider themselves most liberal -- would choose a gay child? How many parents, armed with this diagnosis, would use the patch and change the orientation?

Christians who are committed to think in genuinely Christian terms should think carefully about these points:

1. There is, as of now, no incontrovertible or widely accepted proof that any biological basis for sexual orientation exists.

2. Nevertheless, the direction of the research points in this direction. Research into the sexual orientation of sheep and other animals, as well as human studies, points to some level of biological causation for sexual orientation in at least some individuals.

3. Given the consequences of the Fall and the effects of human sin, we should not be surprised that such a causation or link is found. After all, the human genetic structure, along with every other aspect of creation, shows the pernicious effects of the Fall and of God's judgment.

4. The biblical condemnation of all homosexual behaviors would not be compromised or mitigated in the least by such a discovery. The discovery of a biological factor would not change the Bible's moral verdict on homosexual behavior.

5. The discovery of a biological basis for homosexuality would be of great pastoral significance, allowing for a greater understanding of why certain persons struggle with these particular sexual temptations.

6. The biblical basis for establishing the dignity of all persons -- the fact that all humans are made in God's image -- reminds us that this means all persons, including those who may be marked by a predisposition toward homosexuality. For the sake of clarity, we must insist at all times that all persons -- whether identified as heterosexual, homosexual, lesbian, transsexual, transgendered, bisexual, or whatever -- are equally made in the image of God.

7. Thus, we will gladly contend for the right to life of all persons, born and unborn, whatever their sexual orientation. We must fight against the idea of aborting fetuses or human embryos identified as homosexual in orientation.

8. If a biological basis is found, and if a prenatal test is then developed, and if a successful treatment to reverse the sexual orientation to heterosexual is ever developed, we would support its use as we should unapologetically support the use of any appropriate means to avoid sexual temptation and the inevitable effects of sin.

9. We must stop confusing the issues of moral responsibility and moral choice. We are all responsible for our sexual orientation, but that does not mean that we freely and consciously choose that orientation. We sin against homosexuals by insisting that sexual temptation and attraction are predominately chosen. We do not always (or even generally) choose our temptations. Nevertheless, we are absolutely responsible for what we do with sinful temptations, whatever our so-called sexual orientation.

10. Christians must be very careful not to claim that science can never prove a biological basis for sexual orientation. We can and must insist that no scientific finding can change the basic sinfulness of all homosexual behavior. The general trend of the research points to at least some biological factors behind sexual attraction, gender identity, and sexual orientation. This does not alter God's moral verdict on homosexual sin (or heterosexual sin, for that matter), but it does hold some promise that a deeper knowledge of homosexuality and its cause will allow for more effective ministries to those who struggle with this particular pattern of temptation. If such knowledge should ever be discovered, we should embrace it and use it for the greater good of humanity and for the greater glory of God.


21 posted on 03/16/2007 7:41:36 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (To have no voice in the Party that always sides with America's enemies is a badge of honor.)
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To: Psycho_Bunny
Some people are born gay. We've all met them. That's just the way it is.

Some men are born with effeminate traits. We've all met them. If left alone, they grow up into becoming normal people.

Some women are born with masculine traits. We've all met them. If left alone, they grow up into becoming normal people.

22 posted on 03/16/2007 7:42:37 AM PDT by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: scripter
This is a propaganda piece thinly disguised as science.

Just because there may be no genetic determining factor does not mean there is not a determination made prior to birth. There are other factors, besides DNA, which influence a child's development in utero. Obviously I'm talking about the womb and the nutrients and other chemical factors (such as drug abuse) which influence the fetal development cycle.

23 posted on 03/16/2007 7:42:41 AM PDT by newzjunkey (Avg price, REGULAR gas, $3.16/gallon in San Diego.)
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To: nhoward14
Just pray the gay away!

There's another one of the less intelligent responses I've seen on the subject of homosexuality and genetics.

24 posted on 03/16/2007 7:42:52 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: Dixie Yooper
Some men are born with effeminate traits. We've all met them. If left alone, they grow up into becoming normal people.

Indeed. There are actually more effemniate straight men than gay men.

25 posted on 03/16/2007 7:44:14 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: newzjunkey

I've heard that before. The problem as I see it, is no credible scientist supports the idea anybody is born gay.


26 posted on 03/16/2007 7:46:00 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: Matchett-PI
I think Mohler missed a number of points that was pointed out here
27 posted on 03/16/2007 7:50:45 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: scripter

"sexual orientation is genetically influenced but not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispositions, not predeterminations"

Wow, there sure is a lot of denial on this forum. LOL

Just because it is not hardwired does not mean it is not genetically influenced.

So it appears one can indeed have a predisposition to be a homosexual.

It according to this doc / study it appears that homosexualism is genetically influenced.

Seems like most peeps here just read right past that.....LOL.


28 posted on 03/16/2007 7:57:50 AM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: scripter
As Dr. Collins would agree, environment can influence gene expression, and free will determines the response to whatever predispositions might be present.

Which supports LeVay's own words on his hypothalamus study:

"[His 1991 research] made the unassuming LeVay one of the most misunderstood men in America. "It's important to stress what I didn't find," he points out with the courtly patience of someone who long ago got used to waiting for the rest of the world to catch up. "I did not prove that homosexuality is genetic, or find a genetic cause for being gay. I didn't show that gay men are 'born that way,' the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain--INAH3 is less likely to be the sole gay nucleus of the brain than part of a chain of nuclei engaged in men and women's sexual behavior. My work is just a hint in that direction--a spur, I hope, to future work."

Source: Interview with David Nimmons (March, 1994) "Sex and the Brain", Discover, Vol. 15, No. 3, p. 64-71.


29 posted on 03/16/2007 7:58:02 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: scripter

Much like Ted Haggard's claims that he went to church camp for a few days and was cured of his homosexuality?


30 posted on 03/16/2007 7:59:04 AM PDT by nhoward14
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To: taxed2death
Talking about denial...

Just because it is not hardwired does not mean it is not genetically influenced.

From the article

The heritability estimates for homosexuality is substantially lower than General Cognitive Ability, Extroversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness, Neuroticism, Openness, Aggression and Traditionalism!
As I previously wrote, that says more than more realize, and that apparently includes you. Understanding linkages and associations are key to understanding the bigger picture, but it's always easier to pull a comment or two out of context, isn't it.
31 posted on 03/16/2007 8:03:42 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: scripter

Talk of a "gay gene" makes no sense, unless you know how the biological process works.

In mammals, sex is determined genetically, but not "gender association". That is, in the early part of the life of a fetus, its sex is determined to either be male or female.

But only much later, during the gestation period, does a release or the lack of a release of the hormone testosterone tell the brain of the fetus that it is male or female.

Scientists have known this for almost 50 years now. In animals, they have both given female fetuses that little "squirt" of testosterone to the brain, so they developed with "male" brains though they had female genitalia; and they blocked that "squirt" of testosterone in male fetuses, so they grew up with "female" brains, though they had male genitalia.

In either case, these "interfered with" animals exhibited homosexual behavior. Importantly, when only *half* of their brain received testosterone, they became bisexual, and exhibited both male and female mating behaviors.

So any suggestion of a gay gene would have to be focused on the mechanism that *coordinates* either that "squirt" of testosterone, or the lack of it, with the appropriate gender, or interferes with that coordination.

Importantly, for almost as long, they have known that plant estrogens can interfere with this process. That is, female plant hormones are close enough to mammalian female hormones as to cause problems. (The two foods that contain the most natural female plant hormones are yams and tofu.)

However, for many years, farmers have been spraying crops with female plant hormones to stimulate growth, significantly increasing the publics ingestion of these hormones. But though there has been much research about this, few scientific conclusions can be drawn as to its long term effects.

So this means that homosexuality may be caused by a gene, or by some interference during gestation, and most likely can be further developed or inhibited by environment.


32 posted on 03/16/2007 8:03:48 AM PDT by Popocatapetl
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To: nhoward14

I have no doubt God can do anything he wants. The article is about homosexuality and genetics and supports, again, the importance of environmental factors.


33 posted on 03/16/2007 8:06:18 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: scripter
"In fact science, including the posted article, is quite hostile to the born gay argument."

Ummmmmmmmm no.

The article states that there is not a "gay gene"

The article... pretty clearly states that "sexual orientation is genetically influenced..."...and that there are in fact "predispositions"


"sexual orientation is genetically influenced but not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispositions, not predetermination"


As I read this article.... it appears that there's a pretty big chunk of gray area there. Not to mention that Scientists haven't figured out what the majority of "junk DNA" plays in the make up of sexuality. So for this guy to come out and say there is no "gay" gene is a teeny bit presumptuous.

If one believes in G_D....is one to REALLY believe that there is "junk DNA"?


LOL

Did he blow his nose on the grand assembly line and dribble a bit of "junk DNA" into the human genome?




End result>>> just one more inconclusive waste of time / money study.
34 posted on 03/16/2007 8:06:52 AM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: Popocatapetl
Interesting post. I read similar things occasionally and am always interesting in more.

So this means that homosexuality may be caused by a gene, or by some interference during gestation, and most likely can be further developed or inhibited by environment.

I disagree. Furthermore I don't think same-sex attraction can be caused by any one gene. What the experts say is some children exhibit gifts that some incorrectly interpret to imply the child is homosexual. Checkout: How Might Homosexuality Develop? Putting the Pieces Together

35 posted on 03/16/2007 8:11:50 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: newzjunkey

"Just because there may be no genetic determining factor does not mean there is not a determination made prior to birth. There are other factors, besides DNA, which influence a child's development in utero. Obviously I'm talking about the womb and the nutrients and other chemical factors (such as drug abuse) which influence the fetal development cycle."

But twins in the same womb at the same time will get the same nutrients, harmones, drugs etc, etc.


36 posted on 03/16/2007 8:15:18 AM PDT by Help!
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To: taxed2death; Clint N. Suhks
The article states that there is not a "gay gene"

And there isn't, no matter what the radicals pushing the homosexual agenda say.

The article... pretty clearly states that "sexual orientation is genetically influenced..."...and that there are in fact "predispositions"

Uh-huh. That doesn't mean anybody is born gay nor that homosexuality his hardwired. Linkages, associations, heritability, etc, must all be understood to have an informed opinion on the matter. You can't pull comments out of context and expect science to agree with you.

37 posted on 03/16/2007 8:18:11 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: Help!
But twins in the same womb at the same time will get the same nutrients, harmones, drugs etc, etc.

Exactly. Twins studies don't help the born that way propopents, no matter how some have previously tried to twist the conclusion of the studies.

38 posted on 03/16/2007 8:21:30 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: scripter; oldglory; MinuteGal; JulieRNR21; sheikdetailfeather; mcmuffin; gonzo; Grampa Dave; ...

"I think Mohler missed a number of points that was pointed out here [below]" ~ scripter

Rush has said many times that there is one sure way to stop abortion. Just watch what happens the minute any scientist suggests that it is possible for people to know ahead of time if the baby they are carrying will be born "gay". Most people will either want to abort it or if possible, fix it in the womb before it's born.

It is for that reason that Mohler got such a "reaction" from the militant homosexual community for what he said. I think it's funny as hell, and am amazed that Rush hasn't commented on it yet.

Furor over Baptist's gay-baby article
Lexington: Herald-Leader ^ | Mar. 14, 2007 | David Crary (A.P.)
Posted on 03/15/2007 3:44:14 AM EDT by Graybeard58

"However, Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., was assailed even more harshly by gay-rights supporters. They were upset by his assertion that homosexuality would remain a sin even if it were biologically based, and by his support for possible medical treatment that could switch an unborn gay baby's sexual orientation to heterosexual. .." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1801144/posts


39 posted on 03/16/2007 8:28:58 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (To have no voice in the Party that always sides with America's enemies is a badge of honor.)
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To: scripter
I see the majority of male homosexuality as a habituation, usually introduced at a young age through molestation. Some of it is even an addiction. Either way it's still mostly mental aberrations.
40 posted on 03/16/2007 8:29:53 AM PDT by fella (Respect does not equal fear unless your a tyrant.)
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To: taxed2death
So it appears one can indeed have a predisposition to be a homosexual.

Homersexuallity is a behavior. Anybody not agree with that? Ok next step. How did that behavior start? Answer, it is learned. I may have a predisposition but the behavior is still learned. Next question is, how is the behavior learned?
41 posted on 03/16/2007 8:34:06 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple ( Seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: Matchett-PI

I've heard that before but didn't know Rush had mentioned it. I don't get much of an opportunity to listen to Rush these days.


42 posted on 03/16/2007 8:34:59 AM PDT by scripter (Duncan Hunter in 2008)
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To: scripter
My point is that this study....like all others into this subject is completely inconclusive. I won't even get into the "who cares" factor....I'd personally rather these monies be spent on some ailment of a more life threatening type.

"Mapping" DNA is very different than actually knowing what it does.

"Junk DNA" is DNA that scientists have no effing clue as to it's purpose as well as it's interaction with other DNA.

The only logical conclusion one can arrive at is that we (humans) still do not know enough about the intricacies of this subject to come to any definitive answer.

This scientist just suckered some moron or group of morons to pay him to conduct a study into a subject that we (humans) do not have the basis to extrapolate a definitive conclusion from due to incomplete data.

More power to him. I hope he made enough for a nice new car or an in ground swimming pool.

Get back to me when every molecule of "junk DNA" can be properly examined and the function of which can be determined.

Until then the jury is still out.
43 posted on 03/16/2007 8:36:32 AM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: PeterPrinciple
"Homersexuallity is a behavior. Anybody not agree with that? "

Me.

I disagree.

There are too many variables. Too many unknown factors.
44 posted on 03/16/2007 8:38:36 AM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: scripter
Can you concisely explain why this is of any importance?

Suppose you were convinced that homosexuality IS innate.

Would that make any difference in your opinions about what should or should not be done?

45 posted on 03/16/2007 8:40:26 AM PDT by Jim Noble (But that's why they play the games)
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To: sageb1

bookmark


46 posted on 03/16/2007 8:40:34 AM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: PeterPrinciple

"Homersexuallity is a behavior."

Besides.... what did Homer ever do to you?




(sorry...I had to do it....LOL)


47 posted on 03/16/2007 8:41:03 AM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: Jim Noble
Good point.

Who cares...
lets spend the money on Alzheimer's or something that matters.
48 posted on 03/16/2007 8:42:17 AM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: scripter

Unless I am mistaken, that is a reference to a recent South Park episode. A very very vile one. (even for South Park)


49 posted on 03/16/2007 8:46:14 AM PDT by Pheatius
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To: scripter

For some researchers, how we play the hand is less important than how many players are at the table.


50 posted on 03/16/2007 8:46:36 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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