Giuliani doubters in for Rudy awakening

The Boston Herald ^ | 03/18/2007 | Deroy Murdock

[JohnSheppard]

The same Beltway experts who declared Sen. John McCain of Arizona the GOP front-runner, even as he under-polled fellow presidential contender Rudolph Giuliani, now parrot equally dodgy concepts. When Republicans meet “the real Rudy,” they will abandon New York’s former mayor like cattle fleeing a burning barn. Then, the wobbly Washington wisdom continues, Giuliani’s three marriages, and his less-than-solidly-right-wing views on gays, guns and gametes will torpedo his buoyant presidential hopes.

These seers now detect unhappiness with the GOP aspirants. They cite a recent Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll in which 26 percent of Republican primary voters were dissatisfied with Giuliani, McCain and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, among others. However, 56 percent called these choices satisfactory. This mirrors the 57 percent of conservative Republicans who preferred Giuliani, versus 31 percent for McCain. More broadly, Republicans backed Giuliani by 38 percent to McCain’s 24, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich’s 10, Romney’s 8, and 2 percent each for Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee.

But what if voters like Giuliani better upon understanding his pre-9/11 performance? Educating Republicans on his complete mayoral record - and soon - may be Giuliani’s best bet for extinguishing the lingering grumbling about his candidacy.

[Blackirish]

"- even partial birth abortions inclusive"

Rudy's position on PBA is the same as Duncan Hunters...FR's darling.

[garv]

It became the same a month ago. Up until then it was the same as Hillary's.

[panaxanax]

You mean Rudy has changed directions again? Jeez, this guy is hard to keep up with.

Have you ever wondered why Duncan Hunter is "FR's darling"? It's because he's a CONSERVATIVE and this is a CONSERVATIVE website. Weird, huh?

[narses]

Rudy's position on PBA is the same as Duncan Hunters...FR's darling.

Nope. Rudy's position is the SAME as Hillary's.

The Hildabeast and the RINO both want almost ALL abortion legal, they use the game of "the life of the mother" exemption as if it is meaningful. Hunter wants almost all abortions made illegal. WAY different.

[LowCountryJoe]

What is conservative about about being a protectionist? Check that, by old definitions, that is the epitome of conservatism...market unfriendliness.

[Irish Eyes]

Get off it narses. It is getting tiresome,.

[ScubieNuc]

I will relate the two issues that you are holding close to your vest; homosexuality (let's not pull up the weeds lest we also uproot good wheat -- let's let God be the judge on judgement day) and immigration

First, you have a misunderstanding of "judgement." God will ultimately judge everyone. I never said otherwise. That kind of judgement is one which carries punishment for sin. I've not said anything about supporting a candidate who tries to punish homosexuals.

However, the Bible clearly allows for Christians to make judgements. That simply means making correct decisions. I have to make judgements about raising my children and their actions. As a church members we have to make judgements on proper conduct and punishment of church members.

As a citizen of the United States, I am given the responsibility to make proper judgements for the direction of our country through my vote on a representative. If that representative is going to support a behavior that is clearly a sin, then I cannot support that through that representative. Especially when it envolves the institution of marriage. (He is also for open homosexuality in the military, which will destroy your main support point for Rudy...defense of the Republic.)

Second, I think you have me confused with someone else when you mention immigration. I said abortion and homosexuality were my main moral issues.

Sincerely

[Blackirish]

Yet, on the Fox News show, Giuliani said that he supports a ban on partial-birth abortion as long as there is a provision to protect the life of the mother.


"If it has provision for the life of the mother, then I would support it," he told the Fox News program.


Washington, D.C. – The House of Representatives yesterday passed H.R. 760, the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003, by a margin of 282-139. Congressman Duncan Hunter (CA-52), who is a cosponsor of the legislation, proudly voted in favor of this measure which prohibits medical doctors, except in situations where the LIFE OF THE MOTHER is threatened, from utilizing certain procedures that involve the partial delivery of a living unborn baby, killing the child, then completing the delivery

---

As far as Hunter's credentials are concerned he certainly isn't a fiscal conservative and after the spending binge the curreent crew of repubs have been on letting another big spending socon near the checkbook .....the voters won't have it. He has no chance.

http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2006/10/duncan_hunters_voting_record.php

[LowCountryJoe]

My applogies about being wrong about your stance. But I would like to point to the usage of the word "judgement" in the context of where I was going. "Judgement", refered to a ruling/decree/official decision as I was using it. A more apt word to what you are describing is discrimination -- and, no, that is not a word that should conjure negative connotations Right off the bat as it seems to these days.

[narses]

[narses]

"Yet, on the Fox News show, Giuliani said that he supports a ban on partial-birth abortion as long as there is a provision to protect the life of the mother."

Finally. And just barely. All other abortions appear OK to him. NOT so Hunter. As for fiscal issues, Rudy spent WAAAAY more than anyone before him as Mayor.

[Blackirish]

As for fiscal issues, Rudy spent WAAAAY more than anyone before him as Mayor.

---

Every politician in the our history has spent more then the predessor. Because our population continues to grow. But by cutting taxes...cutting bureaucracy...cutting crime...Rudy G accomplished much more in a just two terms as Mayor of NYCity then Hunter has done in 20 in congress.

No comparison.

[narses]

Hunter served, Rudy evaded. Sorry, a draft-evader who wants to grab guns, supports abortion, so called 'gay rights' and sanctuary cities isn't a conservative. Not even a little.

[no dems]

Would you consider supporting the former Seanator from Tennessee, Fred Thompson?

[Blackirish]

Blah...blah...blah....

Hunter has as much chance of being the next POTUS as Custer's Bugler.

And all your spamming has done is annoy folks so much that it has drivin down traffic on FR and pushed more folks into the Rudy camp.

[narses]

LOL, you represent liberalism well.

• Disdain for the Constitution
  Mayor Giuliani routinely disregarded the First Amendment as he rejected requests for information from news organizations and civic groups and opposed public access to city hall steps and parks for demonstrations. "Freedom is about authority," Giuliani said, responding to critics in 1998. "Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it."

• Withholding Public Information
  In a legally questionable transaction on December 24, 2001, just days before the end of the mayor's second term, Giuliani secretly moved all 2,100 boxes of mayoral files and videos from his eight years in office. The records, which by law were to become the property of the Municipal archives, were transferred to a gated private storage facility, and their control was transferred to the Rudolph W. Giuliani Center for Urban Affairs, a newly-established private nonprofit group controlled by Giuliani.

  Angry archivists and historians denounced the unprecedented hijacking of public property to private hands. Tom Connors, of the Society of American Archivists, said the transfer seemed part of a movement to "create barriers to the American citizen's right to know what their governments are doing."

• Profiting From His Hero Status
  In February, 2002, Giuliani insisted upon transferring guardianship of the $100 million remaining in the city-run Twin Towers Fund to a private charity he controlled.

  The families of the police and fire rescuers who died in the attack balked at Giuliani's plan to take up to a year to dole out the money, with his new organization billing $2.2 million in anticipated administrative expenses (including six-figure salaries for friends he appointed as officers). The families argued that the fire union had far more quickly distributed $111 million with an estimated administrative cost of just $30,000.

  Under embarrassing pressure from the victims' families, unions and state Attorney General Elliot Spitzer, Giuliani backed down. He promised to distribute the money within 60 days and fund his overhead from new donations. The families of the deceased rescuers, the real heroes of the September 11 attacks, received a one-time benefit of about $230,000 each from the Giuliani-privatized fund in 2002. That year, the former mayor earned some $8 million in speaking fees alone, more than $650,000 per month.

• Heather MacDonald, City Journal, January 14, 2004 (FrontPageMag.com)
  Former mayor Rudolph Giuliani sued all the way up to the Supreme Court to defend the city’s sanctuary policy against a 1996 federal law decreeing that cities could not prohibit their employees from cooperating with the INS. Oh yeah? said Giuliani; just watch me. The INS, he claimed, with what turned out to be grotesque irony, only aims to “terrorize people.” Though he lost in court, he remained defiant to the end. On September 5, 2001, his handpicked charter-revision committee ruled that New York could still require that its employees keep immigration information confidential to preserve trust between immigrants and government. Six days later, several visa-overstayers participated in the most devastating attack on the city and the country in history.

  New York conveniently forgot the 1996 federal ban on sanctuary laws until a gang of five Mexicans—four of them illegal—abducted and brutally raped a 42-year-old mother of two near some railroad tracks in Queens. The NYPD had already arrested three of the illegal aliens numerous times for such crimes as assault, attempted robbery, criminal trespass, illegal gun possession, and drug offenses. The department had never notified the INS.

  On the issues: Liberal Party endorsement of Giuliani

  National Review: Rockefeller quote

  New York Observer: Reagan Republican quote

  New York Observer: Republican convention quote

  New York Observer: Goldwater quote

  New York Observer: Clinton quote

  New York Observer: 'Good hands' quote

[ZULU]

"Homosexuality: it is none of my business what two consenting adults want to do amongst themselves...my preference is to not make a federal case of it and not have to pay social security survivor benefits for it."

Basically I agree with you from a philosophical perspective. However, following that road has resulted in intolerable problems. Not only are being asked to "tolerate" homosexuality, the activist homosexual community is DEMANDING equivalence with heterosexuality, and ENDORSEMENT by society of what is essential an unnatural and perverted practice. EVEN IN SCHOOLS, children are now being taught that homosexuality is an "acceptable alternative lifestyle" Consequently, I'm all for shutting them back in the closet, and nailing the door closed.

Mr. Giuliani does NOT see things from my perspective.

"Do you really suppose that people choose to be homosexual given the life of torment and isolation they lead in their developmental years?"

I think some people have an uncontrollable predilection for that lifestyle due to biological factors beyond their control. I sympathize with them as long as they restrict their activities to themselves and others who are of a like inclination and do not seek society's imprimatur on their behavior. BUT I ALOS believe a SOCIETY can develop in which homosexuality has become SO TOLERATED, and SO INSTITUTIONALIZED that even people who do not have a biological imperative to practice it do so. For instance - the Ancient Spartans, Later Republican Rome and Imperial Rome, the Mochicas and Chimus of South America, and the Ottoman Turks. Its IMPOSSIBLE for all the people who practised that perversion in those societies were driven by such a uncontrollable biological urge. Its something which had become accepted and then endorsed - just as the homosuxual community in the modern western world is attempting to do with their perversion.

"Immigration: allow more immigrants to come here legally and restrict the handouts that they can receive by the taxpayers. Immigration has always been a boon to our economy."

Again, we don't really have an issue here. The issue isn't IMMIGRATION. Immigrants are people who come here LEGALLY, who wish to become AMERICANS and admire and wish to absorb our culture.

Mr. Giuliani supports ILLEGAL INVADERS - people who break our laws to come here and then secure benefits from our society. He supported them while mayor of New York and has not expressed any intention of changing his mind on this subject.

And I agree that LEGAL immigrants are the lifeblood of our society. "Guest Workers" are merely a Trojan horse for more illegal invaders, and a prop to support corrupt corporate interests who have no desire to provide American workers and legal resident aliens with a decent living.

[ScubieNuc]

And all your spamming has done is annoy folks so much that it has drivin down traffic on FR and pushed more folks into the Rudy camp.

I'm not sure how you can tally traffic on FR and then determine that it's because of the anti-Rudy postings and not because NCAA Basketball Tournament is on, or some other reason. I'm going call.....

B.S.

Then to assume that the anti-Rudy postings drive people to Rudy....that's funny.

I suppose that you look at the little poll on FR and see nothing but roses that Rudy leads all choices if the vote were held today. I suppose that you also miss that he gets only 46% of the vote. That means that 54% of FR doesn't support him.

You get that poll over 51% when we get near the primaries and you can feel pretty good about your boy, Rudy. Until then, any thinking person will see all these "go Rudy" posts as nothing but hot air.

Sincerely

[LowCountryJoe]

I enjoyed your reply. If only more people could have the same level of discourse in this forum about these particular issues.

[narses]

We can all cherish our fantasies. Blackirish fantasies a world where FR loves Rudy. It is a fantasy, but it is his.