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Giuliani doubters in for Rudy awakening
The Boston Herald ^ | 03/18/2007 | Deroy Murdock

Posted on 03/18/2007 1:31:23 AM PDT by JohnSheppard

The same Beltway experts who declared Sen. John McCain of Arizona the GOP front-runner, even as he under-polled fellow presidential contender Rudolph Giuliani, now parrot equally dodgy concepts. When Republicans meet “the real Rudy,” they will abandon New York’s former mayor like cattle fleeing a burning barn. Then, the wobbly Washington wisdom continues, Giuliani’s three marriages, and his less-than-solidly-right-wing views on gays, guns and gametes will torpedo his buoyant presidential hopes.

These seers now detect unhappiness with the GOP aspirants. They cite a recent Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll in which 26 percent of Republican primary voters were dissatisfied with Giuliani, McCain and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, among others. However, 56 percent called these choices satisfactory. This mirrors the 57 percent of conservative Republicans who preferred Giuliani, versus 31 percent for McCain. More broadly, Republicans backed Giuliani by 38 percent to McCain’s 24, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich’s 10, Romney’s 8, and 2 percent each for Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee.

But what if voters like Giuliani better upon understanding his pre-9/11 performance? Educating Republicans on his complete mayoral record - and soon - may be Giuliani’s best bet for extinguishing the lingering grumbling about his candidacy.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.bostonherald.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: alreadyposted; anybodybutrudy; closethisthread; deroymurdock; duncanhunter; giuliani; gungrabber; infiltrators; insurgency; medialies; norudys; oldnews; rino; rudy; rudygasm; rudygiuliani; wasteofbandwidth
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1 posted on 03/18/2007 1:31:25 AM PDT by JohnSheppard
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To: areafiftyone

Rudy ping


2 posted on 03/18/2007 1:32:31 AM PDT by JohnSheppard
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To: JohnSheppard
This time it's the liberal Boston Herald applying the lipstick to Rudy. Doesn't help though.


3 posted on 03/18/2007 2:10:06 AM PDT by KDD (Ron Paul for President)
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To: JohnSheppard
THOU SHALT NOT DOUBT THE CHURCH OF THE RINO LEST YEE BE DAMNED...

Sorry, I won't support him in the primaries. He's not a conservative.

I respect the opinions of my FReeper friends here who support him. That is your choice and in this free nation I respect that.

But it's still early in the race, and I think we can do better. I suspect most of you realize that, too. This is one of the reasons why current polling shows Rudy with only 34% of the total support. 66% are simply waiting for a conservative leader to emerge.

Oh, and what is this crap about McCain even being in the race? Heck, I bet people are supporting him this far just to watch the McCainiac express have an even larger trainwreck. That nutter needs to embrace a healthy, peaceful, happy retirement much sooner than he plans.

4 posted on 03/18/2007 2:27:01 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: JohnSheppard

I wonder if there might be some pushback against the overly self righteous single issue voters that many think are hurting the republican party.


5 posted on 03/18/2007 2:35:23 AM PDT by tkathy
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To: Caipirabob

I completely agree.


6 posted on 03/18/2007 2:35:54 AM PDT by Psycheout (Sam Brownback. Principled. Conservative. Republican.)
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To: Caipirabob
"I respect the opinions of my FReeper friends here who support him."

Anyone that supports a liberal candidate that is pro-gay, pro-late term abortion and anti-2nd Amendment should not be allowed to call themselves a FReeper.

7 posted on 03/18/2007 2:48:28 AM PDT by panaxanax (Ronald Reagan would vote for Duncan Hunter!)
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To: panaxanax

I'm watching and not committing yet.

But McCain is clearly trying to smear Rudy Giuliani and I say Anybody But McCain.

What makes Rudy and or Romney good candidates is that they are not Washington.

Sadly too many of our choices have had or do have the title Senator or Congressman in front of their names. I could support a Newt or a Duncan Hunter, but will the rest of the voters?


8 posted on 03/18/2007 3:04:55 AM PDT by Nextrush ( Chris Matthews Band: "I get high....I get high.....I get high.....McCain......")
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To: KDD

It's "boston globe" which is liberal, not "boston herald". In comparison with NYT or boston globe, the "herald" is about as liberal as, say, Jesse Helms.


9 posted on 03/18/2007 3:15:52 AM PDT by GSlob
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To: Nextrush
Sadly too many of our choices have had or do have the title Senator or Congressman in front of their names. I could support a Newt or a Duncan Hunter, but will the rest of the voters?

That's what kind of takes the wind out of my sails, too. We haven't had a clear leader who could unite conservatives announce just yet. I mean, Hunter has announced, but he hasn't been any more effective at getting his points out than President Bush. The problem with that is for me, he'd be just as effective as President Bush at defending himself against liberal attacks. We all know how President Bush has done...nothing but silence in response. It's just maddening.

We need a leader who can actually reach the people. I respect and support President Bush. Sadly, he has proven he is simply incapable of defeating the liberal propaganda machine. Fortunately, the results of his actions go a long way in his favor. So in the long run, history will favor him but for now? His administration is getting eaten alive by the liberal propaganda machine.

We need better than this. We need a leader who can promote his message.

Sorry for the rant...

10 posted on 03/18/2007 3:38:23 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Caipirabob

It's Okay, sometimes we all need to rant. In the end I think I will be for Thompson or Brownback. Neither likely to get the nomination, but I'll be able to sleep at night.


11 posted on 03/18/2007 3:49:10 AM PDT by kjo
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To: Caipirabob

President Bush has done...nothing but silence in response. It's just maddening.

As a Bush supporter, Bush's silence has been absolutely maddening, and I think that his silence will be a big factor in the 2008 election, we will be looking for a ripper and a brawler, not another "above the fray" Frist wannabe.


12 posted on 03/18/2007 3:59:51 AM PDT by tkathy
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To: panaxanax

"Anyone that supports a liberal candidate that is pro-gay, pro-late term abortion and anti-2nd Amendment should not be allowed to call themselves a FReeper."

AMEN AMEN!!!!!


13 posted on 03/18/2007 4:02:05 AM PDT by Halgr (Once a Marine, always a Marine - Semper Fi)
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To: tkathy
I wonder if there might be some pushback against the overly self righteous single issue voters that many think are hurting the republican party.

Especially from young Republicans. Definitely.

14 posted on 03/18/2007 4:14:53 AM PDT by zarf (Her hair was of a dank yellow, and fell over her temples like sauerkraut......)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: Godebert

The path to political power does not lie in deliberately losing elections.


16 posted on 03/18/2007 4:36:06 AM PDT by tkathy
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To: tkathy

Political power for who? A Giuliani presidency will be a victory for the left.


17 posted on 03/18/2007 4:39:32 AM PDT by Godebert
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To: Godebert

A rudy presidency would be a huge victory for republicans who care about this country being destroyed.


18 posted on 03/18/2007 4:51:31 AM PDT by tkathy
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To: tkathy
No, it would be tolerant people such as yourself that must be pushed back. Supply sider? Impressive results a mayor? Pffft. All I know is that Rudy is pro gay and I will not under any circumstances vote for they guy in the primaries or as a candidate [even when logic should be reminding me of the alternatives] because of his views about homos.

[/sarcasm]

19 posted on 03/18/2007 5:05:11 AM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: Nextrush

To borrow from a Las Vegas promo, "what happens in New York needs to stay in New York" - Giuliani included.

My immediate concern isn't for just the 2008 election process, but what nominating a self-professed liberal such as Giuliani says to Conservatives and rightly tilted RINO's and Democrats of our nation. It says, "It's okay to make laws regulating our rights to gun ownership, even regulating them out of our hands. It's okay to make laws requiring objecting citizens to federally fund abortions - even partial birth abortions inclusive. It's okay to make laws requiring all citizens not only accept, but promote the homosexual agenda. and It's okay making laws to not only open the US borders to criminal invaders, but to force taxpayer funding their sustenance while they're here." It implies to all leaders by default, "Those Conservative ideals once treasured are no longer important, so don't concern yourself with defending them any longer." It says we accept and embrace the policies, past and present, of Giuliani.

I'm not willing to make that statement expressly nor implicitly to those entrusted to defend Conservative hallmarks of present and past Patriots, those ideals we've struggled just to accomplish and maintain.

It's sad to see those of the GOP focused only upon 2008 and not the bigger picture - the message both halls of Congress will hear with a liberal like Giuliani on a supposedly "CONSERVATIVE" ticket. As for me and for that reason, Rudolph Giuliani is a non-starter - a "not in any circumstance" candidate. I'm adult enough to know, as the Republican Presidency goes, so goes the party and what it values.

Truly, I cannot easily reconcile the territorial divide that separates Rudy's values from those I hold dear - there's simply too much compromise to be made on HIS part and too much to be made upon MINE for me to render my support to him OR THE PARTY that would embrace him.

Preferably, Giuliani will implode under the weight of his own liberal record before the primaries. We'll just have to wait and see...


20 posted on 03/18/2007 5:05:57 AM PDT by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: JohnSheppard
Beyond these socially conservative victories, Giuliani governed as a Reaganesque supply-sider:

Giuliani scrapped three taxes and slashed 20 others, lowering Gotham’s tax burden by 17 percent and saving individual and business taxpayers $9.8 billion.

While inflation averaged 3.9 percent, Giuliani’s average spending grew 2.9 percent annually. If the departed GOP Congress were that fiscally disciplined, the next federal budget would be $2.275 trillion - $625 billion cheaper than proposed.

While hiring 12 percent more cops and 12.8 percent more teachers, Giuliani sliced other positions 17.2 percent. Overall, the municipal head count fell 3.1 percent.

Fiscal conservative. Law and order conservative. I like it.

21 posted on 03/18/2007 5:12:25 AM PDT by Peach (The Clintons' pardoned more terrorists than they captured or killed.)
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To: KDD

Actually, the Boston Herald is considered to be the conservative newspaper. It used to be owned by Rupert Murdoch until Teddie Kennedy forced him to sell it.

Still, a pretty darn good newspaper.


22 posted on 03/18/2007 5:19:22 AM PDT by DeerfieldObserver
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To: azhenfud

Principles are very important. Right now politics is in command with attacks flying everywhere and especially on blogs like this one.

I'm analyzing while realizing the situation conservatives are in.

Right now we lack a dynamic leader who articulates conservative principle consistently in a way that trumps the liberal media and can win an election.


23 posted on 03/18/2007 5:20:34 AM PDT by Nextrush ( Chris Matthews Band: "I get high....I get high.....I get high.....McCain......")
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To: Peach
Speaking of Law & Order conservative, did you read the WSJ editorial from John Fund yesterday? If you haven't, you should. In fact someone posted in the forum -- the title of the piece is "lights, camera, candidate" if my memory serves correctly.

Look, I could support a Gulliani presidency but his gun control and abortion views are very tough to reconcile...so I will probably back Brownback in the primaries or Thompson if he decides to enter. But I will not throw Rudy under the bus if he becomes the candidate. Imagine a Democrat held legislative and executive branch for just one moment. Suddenly those fears that many FReepers have about party purity with someone like a "president Gulliani" and his liberal agenda, are greatly diminished.

24 posted on 03/18/2007 5:27:40 AM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: JohnSheppard; Admin Moderator
Old, duplicate post

Posted by areafiftyone
On News/Activism 03/16/2007 7:05:33 AM CDT · 146 replies · 1,033+ views

Human Events ^ | 3/16/07 | Deroy Murdock

The same Beltway experts who declared Sen. John McCain (R.-Ariz.) the GOP frontrunner, even as he under-polled fellow presidential contender Rudolph W. Giuliani, now parrot equally dodgy concepts.

The Search Function Isn't Broke
25 posted on 03/18/2007 5:31:19 AM PDT by Condor51 (Rudy makes John Kerry look like a Right Wing 'Gun Nut' Extremist)
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To: Peach
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1802236/posts

The WSJ editorial about Fred Thompson. Great stuff in there!

26 posted on 03/18/2007 5:35:13 AM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: LowCountryJoe

Thanks; I'll read it.

The more I read about Rudy, the bigger a supporter I become. But I'm voting for whichever candidate wins the primary.


27 posted on 03/18/2007 5:36:49 AM PDT by Peach (The Clintons' pardoned more terrorists than they captured or killed.)
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To: Halgr; panaxanax
"Anyone that supports a liberal candidate that is pro-gay, pro-late term abortion and anti-2nd Amendment should not be allowed to call themselves a FReeper."

You said: AMEN AMEN!!!!!

May I add a couple of AMEN'S to yours? AMEN AMEN!!!!!!

"Never in my worst nightmares would I believe Republicans, much less FReepers, would willingly go along with the wholesale slaughter of our helpless unborn generations. Shameful. May God forgive us." ~ Jim Robinson ~
28 posted on 03/18/2007 5:37:58 AM PDT by dmw (Aren't you glad you use common sense, don't you wish everybody did?)
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To: JohnSheppard

Rudy doubters may be in for a shock on election day, but Rudy supporters will be in for a shock after he's in office a while.


29 posted on 03/18/2007 5:39:01 AM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Duncan Hunter: pro-life, pro-2nd Amendment, pro-border control, pro-family)
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To: Condor51; JohnSheppard; Admin Moderator
I thought Rudy supporters were against spam? Oh, that rule only applies to those who don't support Rudy--I forgot.
30 posted on 03/18/2007 5:41:01 AM PDT by dmw (Aren't you glad you use common sense, don't you wish everybody did?)
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To: JohnSheppard

Snore.

When there's a primary (hint - NEXT YEAR!) we'll see what we'll see.


31 posted on 03/18/2007 5:41:47 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("I don't know you, but I love who you seem to be.")
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To: freedomfiter2
"...but Rudy supporters will be in for a shock after he's in office a while."

You are so right. They have noooooooo idea.
32 posted on 03/18/2007 5:42:37 AM PDT by dmw (Aren't you glad you use common sense, don't you wish everybody did?)
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To: Caipirabob
I'm with you all the way regarding Rudy. I will support Rudy if he get the nomination but if we think Bush was not conservative enough, wait till we see President Rudy. All I see in Rudy is a liberal who hates terrorists (as all liberals should considering the terrorists will take out the liberals first thing if they get the chance). Maybe we'll see a Rudy/Lieberman ticket, they are about the same.
33 posted on 03/18/2007 5:45:45 AM PDT by razzle
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To: JohnSheppard
Rudy and Hitlery have WAY TOO MUCH in common..
also with; Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, and Barney Frank..
34 posted on 03/18/2007 5:52:34 AM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole)
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To: JohnSheppard

Rudy is not the kind of candidate Republicans should support and the more is exposed about his background, the deader his chances at seeing the White House.

Rudy might get the votes of die-hard Republicans and RINOS. bu the conservatives in the party will not support him in the general election and conservative independents won't either.

Liberal independents and Dems will support the Democrat candidate.

Selling Giuliani as a Republican is as stupid as trying to sell Hillery as a "moderate".


35 posted on 03/18/2007 5:52:42 AM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: dmw

Other than South Carolina the states that have early primaries (New Hampshire, Michigan, California, Iowa, Pennsylvania)are all states that are controlled by the moderate wing (OK, RINO wing) of the Republican Party. While the rank and file might be conservative, the big money flows to the RINO candidates. Unless conservatives can unite behind one candidate and not fragment their votes between four, the chances of Rudy getting the nomination is almost a given. Right now there is no candidate conservatives will rally around to the extent it will make a difference.


36 posted on 03/18/2007 5:53:21 AM PDT by Russ
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To: dmw
**** I thought Rudy supporters were against spam? Oh, that rule only applies to those who don't support Rudy--I forgot. ***

Well... The Rudy Spam, like posting every sighting of him using a public rest room is one thing - like obnoxious and nauseating (wait .. is that two things?).

But reposting two day old articles and threads and needlessly wasting bandwidth is another. That will NOT go unchallenged!

:-)

37 posted on 03/18/2007 5:54:30 AM PDT by Condor51 (Rudy makes John Kerry look like a Right Wing 'Gun Nut' Extremist)
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To: ZULU

Selling Giuliani as a Republican is as stupid as trying to sell Hillery as a "moderate".

If Rudy is a conservative then Hillary is center right.


38 posted on 03/18/2007 5:54:55 AM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Duncan Hunter: pro-life, pro-2nd Amendment, pro-border control, pro-family)
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To: tkathy
A rudy presidency would be a huge victory for republicans who care about this country being destroyed.

Yes, but most of us don't want it destroyed. We'd rather fix it.

39 posted on 03/18/2007 5:59:51 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: freedomfiter2

Exactly. Rudy has a real slick propaganda machine working for him in the media and in forums like this one, trying to convince gullable people that he is Ronald Reagan risen from the grave.

He is, rather, Nelson Rockefeller and Jacob Javits returned from the dead - another radical northeastnern libneral with a Democrat past, no Republican credentials and no experience whatsoever in military matters or foreign affairs,


40 posted on 03/18/2007 6:07:29 AM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: tkathy
"A rudy presidency would be a huge victory for republicans who care about this country being destroyed."

Yeah, a huge victory for Stalinist who believe in ruling with absolute authority. Once Rudy does away the the 2nd-Amendment the people of this country will no longer be citizens, but subjects of his new Socialist Utopia.

Any politician who is against the 2nd-Amendment is an enemy of liberty and the people of America.
41 posted on 03/18/2007 6:12:09 AM PDT by MaDeuce (Do it to them, before they do it to you! (MaDeuce = John Browning's gift to freedom))
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To: MaDeuce

Yeah, a huge victory for Stalinist who believe in ruling with absolute authority. Once Rudy does away the the 2nd-Amendment the people of this country will no longer be citizens, but subjects of his new Socialist Utopia.


I have to disagree with you. Rudy seems to be more of a fascist than a marxist.


42 posted on 03/18/2007 6:14:42 AM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Duncan Hunter: pro-life, pro-2nd Amendment, pro-border control, pro-family)
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To: freedomfiter2

"I have to disagree with you. Rudy seems to be more of a fascist than a marxist."

Hummm, correction accepted. ;-)


43 posted on 03/18/2007 6:19:40 AM PDT by MaDeuce (Do it to them, before they do it to you! (MaDeuce = John Browning's gift to freedom))
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To: Halgr

Since I was here before you guys were, I'll let you leave whenever you want.


44 posted on 03/18/2007 6:21:59 AM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of News)
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To: freedomfiter2

You guys are ridiculous.

Giuliani is more conservative than most other Republicans on issues like school choice, poverty, and trade. On health care, for example, Giuliani insists that we need to have free market solutions.

This is not the agenda of Hillary Clinton. While Giuliani's positions on abortion and guns are bad, the overall good outweighs the bad. I'm going to thoroughly enjoy making the Dems talk about 911 every day throughout 2008.


45 posted on 03/18/2007 6:23:16 AM PDT by JHBowden (President Giuliani in 2008! Law and Order. Solid Judges. Free Markets. Killing Terrorists.)
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To: JohnSheppard

I finnaly figured it out ...

It's like that web site that tells you to vote for the worst on the American idol show.
All these folks are sitting back and laughing as rudy stays in the race.
But it's all in fun right ... come on everyone , lets VOTE FOR THE WORST .

What a hoot.
Go rudy.


46 posted on 03/18/2007 6:23:16 AM PDT by THEUPMAN (####### comment deleted by moderator)
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To: Nextrush
Good points. Yesterday I expressed it here as "Needed: A Conservative Dog-Whisperer."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1802358/posts

Rush has said this many times: our side is looking for ANYONE who will step up and be a leader. Even if he only leads on the 30% of the things we agree on, if he beats the Dems and jerks their leash on those issues while ignoring the others, he will have the OVERWHELMING support of the conservative voters.

So far, Rudy has not done that satisfactorily, and Romney completely whiffed on the Ann Coulter thing. But mark my words on this: whoever establishes himself as a "lead dog" willing to fight the Dems on SOME issues---ANY issues---and make them submissive will get the all the support in the world, regardless of his positions on some or even many issues.

47 posted on 03/18/2007 6:26:23 AM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of News)
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To: JohnSheppard

Deroy Murdock: Rudy Giuliani's Monica Lewinski.


48 posted on 03/18/2007 6:28:23 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Rudy wants to move the GOP to Guyana and create Utopia - Drink up everyone!)
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To: Russ
"Right now there is no candidate conservatives will rally around to the extent it will make a difference."

At this point that's true. But there is still time to see who will make it out of the gates into the forefront. Thompson could be that guy, or it could be one or two of the others running. Who knows, it could be someone who hasn't even announced yet. We still have plenty of time before we need to unite behind any one candidate. Once that candidate appears I'm sure most of us will unite behind him, unless it's Rudy, well, he'll probably have to write a good portion of the socons off. From what the RINOS on this forum have been saying, that's pretty much the plan anyway.
49 posted on 03/18/2007 6:31:26 AM PDT by dmw (Aren't you glad you use common sense, don't you wish everybody did?)
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To: ZULU
Wait a minute here; since when is being a "supply-sider" not a Republican credential? Must someone's republican/conservative views revolve exclusively around social issues only? I agree that Gulliani's views on abortion and gun control are non credentials...but to say he has no credentials is completely inaccurate.
50 posted on 03/18/2007 6:36:25 AM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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