Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Hummer vs. Prius ("Save the Environment!")
email | 3/20/07

Posted on 03/20/2007 7:31:55 AM PDT by pabianice

SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT- Hummer vs. Prius

You would do better in a Hummer. Manufacturing the Toyota Prius involves a shocking amount of pollution. A plant in Ontario, dubbed the "Superstack," mines and smelts the nickel for the Prius' battery, each of which then travels to Europe, China, Japan and the United States. How many Prius miles would it take to offset those trips? Canadian Greenpeace energy coordinator David Martin says the vast amounts of sulfur dioxide released over northern Ontario cause acid rain, which in turn destroys plants in the area, resulting in mudslides. In fact, the surrounding environment is so damaged that NASA uses the "dead zone" for testing moon rovers.

Now for the bad news: The Prius' EPA mileage estimates have dropped for 2008 by 25 percent due to modified standards. The hybrid now averages a puny 45-mpg---not much better than cars at half the price. The Prius also costs more to operate and has a shorter life span than a Hummer, probably the most hated of all vehicles among environmentalist wackos. The Prius has a life expectancy of only 100,000 miles, and it costs an average of $3.25 per mile to operate. By contrast, the Hummer costs $1.95 per mile for a 300,000-mile lifetime.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: cars; environment; hummer; prius

1 posted on 03/20/2007 7:31:55 AM PDT by pabianice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: pabianice

hey who wouldn't want a hummer.


2 posted on 03/20/2007 7:33:44 AM PDT by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

Economics and common sense is not what Toyota Prius buyers are looking for when they buy one. They want to feel smug and superior when an SUV passes them on the road.


3 posted on 03/20/2007 7:36:24 AM PDT by RicocheT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

Plus the Hummer doesn't produce nearly as much Smug.

4 posted on 03/20/2007 7:38:11 AM PDT by mainepatsfan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice; All

Here is the FR thread from last week.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1800912/posts


5 posted on 03/20/2007 7:41:21 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (Terrorists are using dim talking points over and over.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
Silly season, again...

Whoever sent that email is using moonbat strategy, selective "outrage", and delusional "environmentalism".

That Canadian plant has been operating since 1858, and whatever has resulted went into a lot more other other things, cars, aircraft, and everywhere where metal alloys are used, than into priuses.

Nickel consumption can be summarized as: nickel steels (60%), nickel-copper alloys and nickel silver (14%), malleable nickel, nickel clad and Inconel (9%), plating (6%), nickel cast irons (3%), heat and electric resistance alloys (3%), nickel brasses and bronzes (2%), others (3%).

Just let the idiot get a hummer; hell, let him get a half dozen. He's happy, prius owners are happy.

Lead, incidentally is considered much more hazardous and toxic...

Silly season...

6 posted on 03/20/2007 7:44:38 AM PDT by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
the Hummer costs $1.95 per mile for a 300,000-mile lifetime.

I have a friend with a BMW with nearly that many miles on it. I suspect the Hummer will never see 100,000 much less 300,000.
7 posted on 03/20/2007 7:53:53 AM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
I recall an emissions shootout with a 1967 Mustang and a late 1990's model. The EVIL smog machine from yesteryear was shockingly efficient. Of course many states are pulling them off the road.
8 posted on 03/20/2007 7:55:51 AM PDT by endthematrix (Both poverty and riches are the offspring of thought.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

comparing costs per lifetimes is fine, I guess.
i wonder what it costs to run a Hummer for 100,000 miles ?


9 posted on 03/20/2007 8:13:44 AM PDT by stylin19a (If you are living on the edge...MOVE OVER ! Some of us are ready to jump !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

The Prius fills a market niche. One created by affluent Birkenstock wearers.


10 posted on 03/20/2007 8:17:55 AM PDT by popdonnelly (Hillary - the Empty Pants Suit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
Now for the bad news: The Prius' EPA mileage estimates have dropped for 2008 by 25 percent due to modified standards. The hybrid now averages a puny 45-mpg---not much better than cars at half the price.

Is the author comparing the Prius' milage with the 2008 vs other cars on the 2007 standard? Apples and oranges if he is. Every car's gas mileage is dropping in 2008 because the EPA is doing a more realistic test.

The Prius also costs more to operate and has a shorter life span than a Hummer, probably the most hated of all vehicles among environmentalist wackos. The Prius has a life expectancy of only 100,000 miles, and it costs an average of $3.25 per mile to operate. By contrast, the Hummer costs $1.95 per mile for a 300,000-mile lifetime.

The original study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust” came up with this figure for energy costs associated with each car. Just about the entire $325,000 cost for the Prius ($3.25/mile * 100,000 miles) is attributed to disposal costs of the Prius. Most of that is from disposal of the batteries and the difficulty in recycling the plastics in the Prius.

The first time I saw these figures were posted on FR was in Have You Hugged a Hummer Today? (Piercing the Hybrid Hype). Each time this story is repeated more and more details are dropped. Pretty soon it will be down to "Hummer good, Prius bad!"

11 posted on 03/20/2007 8:24:45 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Parker v. DC: the best court decision of the year.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: KarlInOhio
You'll notice that the only thing mentioned in this article, the result of a truly ignorant email, is the "horrible" results of manufacturing the "batteries" in the Prius, which, volume-wise, is about the same as a large truck battery. These "hummer" macho-types are not that long on brainpower, and fail to consider that the prius has only been manufactured since 1997... and the environmental faux pant-wetting (in the email) is entirely about one of the two largest sources of nickel in the world, operating for over a century and a half.

As I said, if the hummer types ran their cars on their brainpower, they would be underpowered even by Prius standards.

12 posted on 03/20/2007 8:43:12 AM PDT by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
Hummer's H2 drink gas and helps fund terrorism by putting billions in the pockets of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela etc. Our #1 trade defict item is oil purchases from abroad.

Buy a Hummer and help fund the Terrorists !!
13 posted on 03/20/2007 8:47:49 AM PDT by LM_Guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

Now for the bad news: The Prius' EPA mileage estimates have dropped for 2008 by 25 percent due to modified standards. The hybrid now averages a puny 45-mpg---not much better than cars at half the price.
***

Do the modified standards apply only to the Prius? If not, what are other mpg ratings for those cars at half the price? By the way, mine gets about 49 mpg overall, after about 81K miles driven since November 2004.


14 posted on 03/20/2007 8:50:16 AM PDT by NCLaw441
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
Now for the bad news: The Prius' EPA mileage estimates have dropped for 2008 by 25 percent due to modified standards. The hybrid now averages a puny 45-mpg---not much better than cars at half the price.
Let's see now...
A reduction of 25% is "puny", but the fact that the prius mileage is still 20% better than the alternatives, and 50% better than the average car is inconsequential? Nice logic there.

The Prius also costs more to operate and has a shorter life span than a Hummer, probably the most hated of all vehicles among environmentalist wackos.
More Priuses are sold than Hummers probably by a factor of 20. The market is telling us something. What percentage of Hummers last 300,000 miles? Prius taxicabs with over 200,000 have been documented all over the world, in all sorts of weather and environmental conditions.
If I am an environmental wacko, it will come as an amusing surprise to family, friends and people here on FR who are familiar with my interests and posts.

The Prius has a life expectancy of only 100,000 miles, and it costs an average of $3.25 per mile to operate. By contrast, the Hummer costs $1.95 per mile for a 300,000-mile lifetime.
This is right up there with the "Global Warming" hype, wrong on every count. I would love to know what percentage of Hummers still running have 300,000 miles on them. Any documentation for that outrageous claim? As to the operating costs, do you really think my 4-year experience has cost me $3.25 per mile? If it did I would slash my wrists since --- surprise! --- I didn't buy it to save money, but even so, I would feel like a total fool if I operated such a car. I got better things to do with my money.

Maintenance? The prius has cost less for maintenance than any other car I've owned, aside from fuel costs
Let's talk other car operating costs. Insurance? collision repair costs? Smog checks?

By the way, I also own a 4-runner 8 years older than the Prius and with 20,000 fewer miles on it. I'll let others take a wild guess as to which is the more popular car in this family for driving fun and transportation!

You like toys? Buy a playstation.

15 posted on 03/20/2007 9:15:09 AM PDT by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: stylin19a

Edmunds lists the 5 year, 75,000 mile all inclusive cost of a Prius at $35,000. The corresponding figure for a Hummer H2 is $70,000.

The cost of fuel comprises 10 and 23% of those totals, respectively.


16 posted on 03/20/2007 9:17:32 AM PDT by CGTRWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

We call it the Toyota "Pious."


17 posted on 03/20/2007 9:18:29 AM PDT by sauropod ("An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools." Ernest Hemingway)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Vaquero

I'll stick my my Chevy Suburban. 90k miles on it and it still runs like it did they day we got it from the car lot. Change the oil, change the tranny fluid, change the other essential fluids and a GM SUV will last you a long time.


18 posted on 03/20/2007 9:21:48 AM PDT by BigTom85 (Proud Gun Owner and Member of NRA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

Boy is this post full of misinformation.

For one, according to the most recent Consumer Reports suvey, the Hummer has one of the WORST reliability rercords among all vehicles. On the other hand, Prius ranks number 1 in customer satisfaction.


19 posted on 03/20/2007 9:21:50 AM PDT by gracesdad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

"The Prius has a life expectancy of only 100,000 miles"

Whatever you want to think of the Prius, or Pius, this is bogus. The whole article seems to rely on the assumption that the car will collapse after 100,001 miles, when in fact 100k miles is the warranty.


20 posted on 03/20/2007 9:27:55 AM PDT by No.6 (www.fourthfightergroup.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Publius6961

Reflexive opposition syndrome. Urban liberals hate SUVs, we hate urban liberals, and thus the bigger and more wasteful your vehicle the better. It's embarassing to watch.


21 posted on 03/20/2007 9:28:37 AM PDT by CGTRWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: No.6

Pious, not Pius. oops.


22 posted on 03/20/2007 9:28:43 AM PDT by No.6 (www.fourthfightergroup.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: No.6

> Whatever you want to think of the Prius, or Pius, this is bogus.

Indeed. Garbage in, garbage out. The idea that the lumbering tanklike monstrosity from GM is sooo well built that it will live 3X as long as the Toyota is laughable...

... but not quite as laughable as all the people who would believe it.


23 posted on 03/20/2007 9:30:12 AM PDT by voltaires_zit (Government is the problem, not the answer.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: BigTom85
my ride:

this is big enough for my useage but an original american general Humvee with a Ma Deuce on the nose would be nice too...

24 posted on 03/20/2007 9:49:06 AM PDT by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: CGTRWK

hey... thanks for doing the leg work...


25 posted on 03/20/2007 10:39:56 AM PDT by stylin19a (If you are living on the edge...MOVE OVER ! Some of us are ready to jump !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: LM_Guy
Hummer's H2 drink gas and helps fund terrorism by putting billions in the pockets of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela etc. Our #1 trade defict item is oil purchases from abroad.

Buy a Hummer and help fund the Terrorists !!

Let's replace all those armor-plated Hummers used in Iraq and elsewhere with armor-plated Priuses. We can show the terrorists how environmentally sensitive we are and reduce our trade deficit at the same time!

26 posted on 03/20/2007 10:55:26 AM PDT by bygolly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
Shockingly bad logic in almost every sentence.

The Prius figure of 100,000 miles is actually the warranty for the battery only, not the entire car. The Hummer has the same length warranty. And does anyone really believe that an entire Toyota will fall apart at 100K, or that any GM vehicle in an average owner's hands will last 300K?

One moderately-popular car whose battery uses nickel from a certain area is automatically responsible for all pollution in that area?

It's good that the EPA has a more realistic mileage figure for hybrids now, but 45mpg is still very high for a car the Prius' size (it's not particularly small as Toyotas go -- I've never sat in one, but I understand it's bigger than a Corolla). The ridiculous comparison to cars half the Prius' price fails to take into account that those cars tend to be much smaller. Of course the mileage is better on tiny cheap cars. That's not an impressive achievement, it's just a smaller car.

Each Prius battery travels to China, Europe, the U.S., and Japan? Maybe Toyota became the top carmaker by using ridiculous and expensive supply chains like this, but I doubt it, and the piece provides no information to back it up.

I do think hybrids are a little overrated, at this technological stage at least. Probably better to concentrate on diesels in the short run. But in convincing people to think more about the topic, nonsensical pieces like this one don't help.

27 posted on 03/20/2007 8:27:02 PM PDT by oxlongm
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bygolly

I would never advocate that for our troops.


28 posted on 03/21/2007 12:52:11 PM PDT by LM_Guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: LM_Guy
The OP refers to Sudbury, Ontario and the Inco superstack in a misleading manner - the OP lost me at that point. NASA used Sudbury during the Apollo program for Astronauts to become familiar with shatter cones. It is not still used by NASA. Since the superstack was built in 1972 and 90% of the sulfur was removed from the gases before they enter the superstack in the 1990s, the environment is much improved. Having traveled to Sudbury in 1998 for a wedding I can say that Sudbury certainly no longer looks like a waste land (to the extent it ever did).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Sudbury

29 posted on 03/21/2009 6:37:15 PM PDT by Montane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson