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Baptist: Giuliani won't get our votes
News and Observer ^ | 3/22/07 | Yonat Shimron

Posted on 03/22/2007 4:24:28 PM PDT by pissant

A top leader in the Southern Baptist Convention predicted that former New York mayor Rudolph Giuliani would not succeed in winning the votes of Southern Baptists if he were to become the Republican nominee for president in 2008.

In brief comments after a chapel service at the North Carolina legislature on Wednesday, Richard Land, the president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, said former U.S. House speaker Newt Gingrich would likely fail for the same reason.

"Three is one marriage too many for them," said Land, referring to the 16.4 million members of the Southern Baptist Convention, the nation's largest Protestant group. Both Giuliani and Gingrich have been married three times.

A friend and adviser to President Bush, Land keeps close watch on politics as head of the commission, which studies moral, social, and religious liberty issues for the convention.

Though Southern Baptists are independent and do not necessarily follow his counsel, Land said three others who have already entered the presidential fray were more likely to win support among Southern Baptists. Those three are Sam Brownback, a Republican Senator from Kansas, Michael Huckabee, the former Republican governor of Arkansas, and Duncan Hunter, Republican Congressman from California.

As for Mitt Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, who is a Mormon, Land didn't rule him out. But, he said, the Republican hopeful has to convince the American people that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints won't dictate his policy. Land said he met with Romney recently and told him: "That's not a hill that can't be climbed. But you're going to have to climb it."

Finally, Land said he sensed that U.S. Senator John McCain was perceived as a wild card.

"People are uncomfortable with his predictability," said Land. "They tell me, 'We don't know how he's going to come down on the issues.'"


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: giuliani; nonchristian; rudy
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To: The South Texan

..is your church a member of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship?


201 posted on 03/22/2007 6:28:59 PM PDT by WalterSkinner ( ..when there is any conflict between God and Caesar -- guess who loses?)
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To: oceanview
"...and with all that, he managed to win by one state with a 65K vote swing."

And without it, you would have a President Kerry right now.

202 posted on 03/22/2007 6:30:35 PM PDT by TommyDale
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To: HitmanLV

that matters not. Bush will be judged by 3 things for history. Did we win the war and reshape the ME, how did the economy do, and is he a good and righteous man.

2 are already in the bag. The third is quickly becoming evident.


203 posted on 03/22/2007 6:32:25 PM PDT by pissant (http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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To: durasell

I agree that there's a moral logic to it. I believe, though, that this moral logic should be overridden by political logic. I don't ALWAYS believe in political logic over moral logic. But in this case I do, essentially because there is a MORAL obligation to keep the Rats out of the White House.


204 posted on 03/22/2007 6:34:19 PM PDT by California Patriot ("That's not Charley the Tuna out there. It's Jaws." -- Richard Nixon)
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To: oceanview
"in 2008, we have other factors working against electing a republican (hispanics, independents not happy with iraq, etc, etc) - so a "repeat performance" of the same turnout and electoral model in 2008 - I just don't think it can get it done."

If the GOP insists on nominating a pro-abortion, pro-homosexual agenda RINO, there IS NO WAY it can get done! Those who want to bad-mouth the Christian Conservatives need to understand that. Run Rudy and risk it all. Run someone who can unite the party, and we have a chance.

205 posted on 03/22/2007 6:34:58 PM PDT by TommyDale
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To: pissant

I'm southern baptist and I'm voting for Rudy....


206 posted on 03/22/2007 6:35:57 PM PDT by BamaDi (60s were the best! (and hey, didn't Joe Namath get drafted in the 60s?))
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To: TommyDale

true. but also recognize that this demographic ALONE can't achieve victory. its a coalition. its a see-saw balance of getting these voters, other republicans, and independents. some candidates tip the see-saw in different ways - worse with socons, better with socons, worse with independents, better with independents, etc.

the trick is finding the mix that gets you to 270 electoral votes.


207 posted on 03/22/2007 6:36:33 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: BamaDi

Good for you.


208 posted on 03/22/2007 6:36:44 PM PDT by pissant (http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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To: pissant

Liberals write the history books. He won't get much credit unless his victories were clear and unambiguous.

In any event, the fact that 100 years from now some folks think highly of him doesn't help us here and now, and in 2008.


209 posted on 03/22/2007 6:36:45 PM PDT by HitmanLV ("If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking until you do suck seed." - Jerry 'Curly' Howard)
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To: HitmanLV

Liberals try to write the history books. But they only get to write the ones used by colleges, not the real ones.

It took all of 5 years before the amiable dunce became Mount Rushmore material.


210 posted on 03/22/2007 6:38:47 PM PDT by pissant (http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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To: HitmanLV
I guess two is ok, then. Somebody stop this guy when he starts making sense. :-)

He probably doesn't have problems with shacking up, but it's marriage that bothers him.

I detest blackmailers. These insufferable individuals that threaten Presidential candidates with holding their vote are awful. I have no use for them and I hope Rudy doesn't, either. The polls indicate loud and clear that the GOP base is supporting him in big numbers – and that's all that matters.

211 posted on 03/22/2007 6:38:53 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul (If you think the world's dangerous, and you need a tough guy... that's me [Rudy] --Newt Gingrich)
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To: oceanview

Of course it takes a coalition, that is why I said it would take a "uniter". I think a pro-life candidate can unite the GOP, as Reagan and GWB did. A RINO pro-abortion cannot and will not unite the party. The Religious Right will not cave on their principles.


212 posted on 03/22/2007 6:39:36 PM PDT by TommyDale
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To: TommyDale
Anyone can make a mistake. I think what he is saying that twice is allowing for one mistake. Three times begins to look like a habit.

Oh, I suppose he is an authority in what constitutes mistakes and habits. Ask him how many times is someone allowed to break a promise, or does someone need to break their promise more than once to constitute a mistake?

213 posted on 03/22/2007 6:39:39 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul (If you think the world's dangerous, and you need a tough guy... that's me [Rudy] --Newt Gingrich)
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To: Victoria Delsoul

I said "I think" that is what he was saying. I am not defending what he said, nor am I agreeing with him. I was just trying to make some sort of sense of it.


214 posted on 03/22/2007 6:45:34 PM PDT by TommyDale
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To: pissant

Wait and see.


215 posted on 03/22/2007 6:46:50 PM PDT by HitmanLV ("If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking until you do suck seed." - Jerry 'Curly' Howard)
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To: TommyDale

OK.


216 posted on 03/22/2007 6:47:37 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul (If you think the world's dangerous, and you need a tough guy... that's me [Rudy] --Newt Gingrich)
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To: Victoria Delsoul

Two is ok, three is bad. Makes perfect sense, for the clinically insane that is. :-)


217 posted on 03/22/2007 6:48:13 PM PDT by HitmanLV ("If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking until you do suck seed." - Jerry 'Curly' Howard)
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To: California Patriot

You're heading into swampy territory. Heartfelt religious belief v. political pragmatism. Whenever the two meet, religious belief ends up with the nasty end of the stick.


218 posted on 03/22/2007 6:48:44 PM PDT by durasell (!)
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To: Terriergal

> So why are you here?

I suppose it was so that I could be subjected to clever grade school comebacks by loving Christians for daring to suggest that many of the Founding Fathers of our Country and many of the greatest leaders of the Western world were not up to their lofty standards when it came to personal morality or theological conformity.

Personally, I'd vote for a whiskey-swilling, foul-mouthed, agnostic like Winston Churchill over some squeaky-clean choir boy any day. God helps those who help themselves.



219 posted on 03/22/2007 6:49:03 PM PDT by PhoenixFire
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To: Victoria Delsoul

;-)


220 posted on 03/22/2007 6:49:07 PM PDT by TommyDale
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To: HitmanLV

How about 2 1/2?


221 posted on 03/22/2007 6:49:07 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul (If you think the world's dangerous, and you need a tough guy... that's me [Rudy] --Newt Gingrich)
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To: TommyDale

;-) back, LOL.


222 posted on 03/22/2007 6:49:46 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul (If you think the world's dangerous, and you need a tough guy... that's me [Rudy] --Newt Gingrich)
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To: Victoria Delsoul

Hahaha! Well, one way to find out! ;-)


223 posted on 03/22/2007 6:51:49 PM PDT by HitmanLV ("If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking until you do suck seed." - Jerry 'Curly' Howard)
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To: All
If either Duncan Hunter or Fred Thompson win the GOP nomination, we will have a Conservative in the White House.

Rudy who?

224 posted on 03/22/2007 6:56:26 PM PDT by free_life
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To: free_life

What wins the White House is a "free" health care program, "free" college and, depending on how bad the mortgage thing gets, a free bail out for homeowners.

Any of those jive with a conservative platform?


225 posted on 03/22/2007 6:58:37 PM PDT by durasell (!)
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To: ladyinred

Thanks, LIR!


226 posted on 03/22/2007 7:10:08 PM PDT by ReleaseTheHounds ("Salvation is not free")
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To: pissant
If I remember this is how we ended up with bill clinton. Now guess we will end up with HRC.
227 posted on 03/22/2007 7:14:40 PM PDT by sam I am
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To: sam I am

Nah, Rudy aint gonna get the nomination.


228 posted on 03/22/2007 7:15:21 PM PDT by pissant (http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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To: durasell
Uh, the last time we dealt with the whole slave issue it turned into kind of a mess. So, let's not go there again.

Yeah, better to leave them as slaves. Or just grant them 3/5 personhood.

Maybe men should have settled for giving women half a vote when they did the suffrage thing.

Pols are like anyone else, they want to keep their jobs.

That's the problem. "Soldiers are like everyone else. They don't want to risk their lives."

229 posted on 03/22/2007 7:20:23 PM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: oceanview
Roe was not a constitutional decision - there is no right to abortion in the constitution. there is also no constitutional prohibition on abortion. if the voters, through their elected represenatives, want it - they can have it. even before Roe, abortion was legal in many states.

Substitute slavery for abortion and at one time it would have been a true statement also.

230 posted on 03/22/2007 7:21:28 PM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: pissant
Not saying that he should but for Christians not to vote is crazy. Yes, I am saved by the Blood of Jesus. Pray about who to vote for but don't stay home VOTE.
231 posted on 03/22/2007 7:22:09 PM PDT by sam I am
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To: oceanview
Roe was not a constitutional decision - there is no right to abortion in the constitution. there is also no constitutional prohibition on abortion.

BTW -- just that sticky part about not depriving another of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. ya know, that kind of tends to put a crimp in people's style.

232 posted on 03/22/2007 7:22:14 PM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: pissant

No doubt Hildabeast will be glad to hear that..........


233 posted on 03/22/2007 7:22:32 PM PDT by skateman (Bush good, demonrats bad.)
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To: HitmanLV
I am pro life, but I can see how someone can think abortion isn't murder, for example. Ancient jewish law, for example, treated the fetus differently than a fully born human being. If someone harmed and destroyed the viability of a fetus, he had to pay restitution. If someone kills a human being, it was a criminal matter.

You're comparing apples to apples. The incidents you describe in scripture are for accidental death of the fetus. (e.g. two men fighting and they bump into a woman)

Regardless, ancient Jewish law also had a lot of stuff added to it that was not really approved by God's latest living Word, Jesus Christ. He called them 'traditions of men' -- ancient Jewish law also allowed for divorce all the while Jesus said "God hates divorce" and Moses conceded and allowed it because of the hardness of their hearts. So your point is moot. God also says to Jeremiah "before you were formed in the womb, I knew you." and in Psalm 139 it vividly describes God's intimate knowledge of a human being before he was born. What are we to make of that?

So shall we fine/demand restitution of abortionists since ancient Jewish law prescribed such for damage/death of a an unborn child? ...For of such is the Kingdom of God.

234 posted on 03/22/2007 7:27:23 PM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: pissant
Bush will be judged by 3 things for history.

He'll also be judged by his Supreme Court justices, so far so good.

235 posted on 03/22/2007 7:31:20 PM PDT by NeoCaveman (the earth has a fever, I'm totally cereal - Al "Manbearpig" Gore Jr.)
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To: Terriergal

hence the thirteenth amendment.


236 posted on 03/22/2007 7:32:22 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: TommyDale

Apparently the term is latae sententiae excommunication.

http://www.catholicplanet.com/articles/article78.htm

Promoting Abortion

Those Catholics who publicly announce their denial that abortion is always gravely immoral, or who publicly promote abortion, or who publicly argue in favor of legalized abortion, also commit a mortal sin and also incur a sentence of automatic excommunication.

This sentence of excommunication applies to Catholics who are politicians, as well as to those Catholics who are political commentators, or public speakers, or who write or otherwise publicly communicate their erroneous view that abortion can be morally-acceptable or that abortion should be legal. This sentence of excommunication also certainly applies to those Catholics who claim to be theologians or Biblical scholars, but who believe or teach that abortion is not always gravely immoral.

Those Catholics who promote abortion are automatically excommunicated for two reasons. First, they have fallen into the sin of heresy by believing that abortion is not always gravely immoral (canons 751 and 1364). Second, these Catholics are providing substantial assistance for women to obtain abortions by influencing public policy to make abortions legal, and to keep abortions legal, and to broaden access to abortion. Those who provide such substantial assistance commit a mortal sin and incur a sentence of automatic excommunication (canon 1398).


237 posted on 03/22/2007 7:34:09 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Thompson/Watts in 2008!! Fear the Fred!!)
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To: pissant; traditional1
"And I'll put up Hunters credibility any day of the week over what is or is not needed by the armed forces."

Some questions that I don't believe have been asked of Hunter yet concern the scandalous conditions that wounded soldiers have in the past, and continue to be subjected to at military health facilities in the US. Did he know about it? When did he know about it? And what did he do about it?
238 posted on 03/22/2007 7:34:54 PM PDT by Gop1040
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To: PhoenixFire
I suppose it was so that I could be subjected to clever grade school comebacks by loving Christians for daring to suggest that many of the Founding Fathers of our Country and many of the greatest leaders of the Western world were not up to their lofty standards when it came to personal morality or theological conformity.

Ah well you should probably go find some of those then.

I'm here because i enjoy clever grade school comebacks from Christian bashers like yourself. Thank you for blessing me today! *by the way, if you were familiar with Scripture, you'd realize that God fearing people are rarely 'nice' according to the rest of the world. "Nice" is for moderates and other wimps who don't know what they believe.

Personally, I'd vote for a whiskey-swilling, foul-mouthed, agnostic like Winston Churchill over some squeaky-clean choir boy any day.

God helps those who help themselves.

Is that in the Bible? Actually, God helps those who realize they cannot help themselves (just ask AA). He Even helps whiskey-swilling foul-mouthed sinners on occasion, and overlooks smooth talking charlatans who have everyone else by the nose.

Remember that Churchill was writing little more than a decade after the Mahdi uprising in the Sudan, which led to the death of Gen. Gordon in Khartoum. The 1898 Kitchener expedition to retake the Sudan was in retaliation for that disaster. Churchill as you know was part of that expedition, fought at Omdurman and then wrote about it. The Mahdi was the bin Laden of his time.

Churchill was immersed in English and Western civilization, although he was not an observant Christian. I think he considered himself agnostic, but he wasn’t hostile at all to Christianity like Gibbon.

Again, one's propensity for or against drink or one's coarseness of speech is not enough criteria on which to judge a vote. You have once again pulled out your fallacious arguments to give yourself the illusion of having made a point.

239 posted on 03/22/2007 7:36:32 PM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: TommyDale

"Run Rudy and risk it all. Run someone who can unite the party, and we have a chance."

WHO?


240 posted on 03/22/2007 7:36:36 PM PDT by Gop1040
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To: Terriergal

that's certainly applicable to late term abortion, but you know full well the issue on first trimester abortions is whether "life" applies to the embryo.


241 posted on 03/22/2007 7:37:33 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: PhoenixFire
forgot to indicate quote: View From the Right: http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/006834.html

Remember that Churchill was writing little more than a decade after the Mahdi uprising in the Sudan, which led to the death of Gen. Gordon in Khartoum. The 1898 Kitchener expedition to retake the Sudan was in retaliation for that disaster. Churchill as you know was part of that expedition, fought at Omdurman and then wrote about it. The Mahdi was the bin Laden of his time.

Churchill was immersed in English and Western civilization, although he was not an observant Christian. I think he considered himself agnostic, but he wasn’t hostile at all to Christianity like Gibbon.

242 posted on 03/22/2007 7:38:04 PM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: dmw

And the Democrats, Independents, and Illegals.

Why not just declare Rudy President and save the expense of an election.


243 posted on 03/22/2007 7:38:33 PM PDT by sport
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To: Gop1040

and its not just "the party" that has to unite around this person - its some majority of the increasingly large apolitical independent block.


244 posted on 03/22/2007 7:39:39 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: sport

Exactly!


245 posted on 03/22/2007 7:40:49 PM PDT by dmw (Aren't you glad you use common sense, don't you wish everybody did?)
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To: Victoria Delsoul

What the heck are you blathering about?

That "blackmail" is how voting works. People are allowed to choose who they will vote for, you know.


246 posted on 03/22/2007 7:41:07 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Thompson/Watts in 2008!! Fear the Fred!!)
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To: durasell
What wins the White House is a "free" health care program, "free" college and, depending on how bad the mortgage thing gets, a free bail out for homeowners

The Socialist/Democrat voterbase sees gubmint this way.....

247 posted on 03/22/2007 7:45:24 PM PDT by traditional1
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To: pissant; traditional1
Hunter is as clean as a whistle, but the alleged wrongdoings will be sure to emerge, as will the fact that he has not been charged with squat over any of that.

I seem to recall it being on one of his old web sites. Hunter addressed the issue and also the check overdraft issue.

He was investigated in both cases and was not charged for anything.

His constituents reelected him by a wide margin.

There's not a single politician today in either party that's squeaky clean.

But Hunter appears to as remarkably clean as any candidate running for President in some time.

248 posted on 03/22/2007 7:46:02 PM PDT by airborne (Airborne! Ranger! Combat Tested Vietnam Veteran! DUNCAN HUNTER !!)
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To: airborne
"His constituents reelected him by a wide margin"

So did New Yorkers, with HRC.....

249 posted on 03/22/2007 7:48:27 PM PDT by traditional1
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To: Terriergal
You grow up and work it out.

My ex had an affair with my nephew.

There's no way I could work it out.

250 posted on 03/22/2007 7:49:15 PM PDT by airborne (Airborne! Ranger! Combat Tested Vietnam Veteran! DUNCAN HUNTER !!)
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