Posted on 03/25/2007 3:38:35 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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| High school graduates from Pyongchon District, Pyongyang, attending a pledge rally in front of USS Pueblo on display at Taedong River (From N. Korea's Central TV / Yonhap) |
Ping!
Why is that ship still afloat?
N. Korea won't think it because they regard it as their "war trophy." The only way is for U.S. to get in and destroy it. On the other hand, N. Korea might do it in exchange for half a million tons of diesel oil.
Correction: N. Korea won't think it destroy it
"Why is that ship still afloat?"
Uh....nostalgia....???
The USS Pueblo, another fine moment in U.S. Naval History.
Heck, if it weren't for the Pueblo "incident"....they'd have never installed the antiquated WWII style 20mm AA emplacement on the USS Granville S. Hall, YAG-40 in 1969. A grand concept, even if the Russian "trawlers" of that time DID have 3" guns and could go twice the speed.
No worries. There was a "scuttle crew" on board, prepared to place and blow charges along "shaft alley" down in the bottom of that venerable old Liberty Hull...and, NO...
The Granny would NOT be "floating" today.
The crew...???
Well,
EXPENDABLE, of course....we're talking National Security here...!!!
http://www.ncobrief.com/index.php/archives/house-members-want-info-on-militarys-human-guinea-pigs/
Here's a great oppurtunity for Prez. Bush to send a clear message to N.Korea.
All he has to do is give the launch codes for a couple of non-nuclear warhead cruise missiles to take out the ship.
If Kim Jong has a hissy fit ,then Prez. Bush can tell him to go to hell because it's still U.S. Property.
It showed a coffee table saying "Disrupted Six Party Talks" being overturned violently by Kim Jong-il. He is kicking it over with one of his boots (the high heeled ones). He says, as he struts away "Later, Dudes!" In his hand is a piece of paper that says "Promise to Unfreeze North Korean Bank Assets".
In the foreground, the remaining five nations leaders are all staring at President Bush. He himself has a black eye and has a most apologetic, sheepish look on his face.
The caption is "OK, which one was responsible for the "sugar talking" to the North Koreans!!??".
The Japanese comic clearly puts the blame on President Bush's Administration for North Korean intransigence, walking out of the Six Party talks, and generally having caved to the DPRK after six years of having taken the right path.
Please read my number 8 here, and also Tiger's comments. You DO know of the President's total about face on North Korea over the last one or two months, don't you???
Bump.
Not much difference in the way this mess was handled than the lousy Clinton administration. More inaction by the liberal pansies who run the DOS and the government that is hell-bent on running our lives.
Precisely! At the time, I advocating sinking it with the highest-yield thermonuclear device in our inventory -- right in the middle of their stinking city. Had we done that, all this Iranian hostage-taking, for example, never would have happened.
IMHO, the Pueblo was one big missed opportunity to establish what would happen to anyone who messed with the western powers -- and to put the ultimate fear in the hearts of rogue states and terrorists.
Uyokudandai boys probably feel that their days must be coming, after reading the cartoon.
'zackly.
"might do it in exchange for half a million tons of diesel oil"
Then let's start the bidding at 2 cases of Vodka, a small DVD collection of "pornography's greatest hits" and a barrel of McDonald's fries complete with trans fat and sprayed down with a fine mist of polonium?
Hey Tiger did you see Diane Sawyer interview in North Korea she went on that USS Pubelo it is war trophy for Chia Pet to brag I wonder how he feel of today US techonolgoy do you think he try something funny with our current ships
I DOUBT IT
Ping...............
Och, nukes are expensive. Nothing a few satchel charges can't fix.
That example would have prevented a whole lot of crap that has occured since... For example, with that lesson in the history books, does anyone believe that the Iranians would have been so stupid as to capture our embassy and personnel back when the Wilted Peanut was President?
I'll wager that we would have not actually had to use the TND; the threat would have sufficed. OTOH, the lesson of actually using it would have had permanent -- and worldwide -- effect.
Our edict should have said something like,
"In twenty-four hours, you will have our vessel, all of its contents, and all of its crew safely in international waters -- with your stupid leader, Whats-hisface Kim, on board with a written, signed apololgy and promise to never violate U.S sovereignty again in hand -- or else we will destroy our violated vessel -- right in your harbor -- with a very large thermonuclear bomb."(Remember why we fought the War of 1812? That statement would have told the world, in no uncertain terms, "Never Again!".
just to clarify a few items:
1. Russian AGI's (MOMA class, Alpinst Class, etc.) never had 3" guns.
2. The USS Pueblo wasn't a Liberty class ship.
"1. Russian AGI's (MOMA class, Alpinst Class, etc.) never had 3" guns. "
In any event, since the crappy 20mm mount that had been "jury rigged" to the top of the superstructure couldn't be LOWERED to effectively shoot anything less than perhaps a quarter mile away...we were SCREWED....had the Russkis actually caught up with us.
I couldn't SEE their markings on the radar on the particular day we were being "dogged"...I'm just going by what I was "told" by someone else that was there at the time.
I must have hallucinated the two F-4 Phantoms that were scrambled from Hickam as well...you know...too much time at sea and all that.
~~~~~~~~
Our 3-lunger STEAM powered rig was NO threat to the Russkis either when it came to top "speed"....which was theoretically all of 16 knots, downhill with a tailwind...IF you were willing to blow the safety valves. We hit 77 rpm one night when the prop popped out of the ocean due to a "rogue wave"...nearly shook me out of my rack...thought the whole rustbucket was gonnna shake apart.
[They ALSO had a nasty habit of snapping in two, just forward of the super structure.]
~~~~~~
"2. The USS Pueblo wasn't a Liberty class ship. "
I never SAID it was...!!!
The USS Granville S. Hall, YAG-40 and it's sister ship, the USS George Eastman, YAG-39 were, however....which, I believe is what I DID say...
They were the two last remaining Liberty Hulls in the Navy at the time they were used in Above-Ground Nuclear Tests...AND...at-sea testing of Bio-Chemical Weapons.
http://www1.va.gov/SHAD/
http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/issues/testing/test-operation-castle_1954-04-14.htm
www.cddc.vt.edu/host/atomic/atmosphr/ustests.html
www.dtra.mil/newsservices/fact_sheets/display.cfm?fs=ntpr_wigwam
Now, mind you, I only spent ONE year on the Granny, so no doubt you've got better sources.
While you're nit picking, I WOULD be revealing if you can tell me if EITHER of those vessels is still afoat...it would nice of you as long as you're pontificating....oops...I mean correcting me.
THANKS...!!!
There are conflicting reports about the Granny...and rumor has it that the Eastman was either sold for scrap or went on for use by some South American company.
JB,
Didn't mean to sound like I was pontificating or nitpicking. I spent a lot of time in the Navy tracking AGI's in my 25 year career.
Here's the story of the two ships you mention.
The USS Granville Hall was scrapped in 1972.
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-g/yag40.htm
The USS George Eastman was scrapped in 1977.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/14/2039.htm
"# Decommissioned (date unknown)
# Struck From the Naval Register (date unknown)"
That's the reason I asked you...
I've SEEN the "standard info" on the web, but what most of it DOESN'T tell you is what REALLY happened between 1962 72, which is to say, Project SHAD.
The majority of the men who served on those vessels and others involved STILL can't get their Service Medical Records from those times due to "national security issues".
I DO know that a couple of the tugboats used in the program are still around as I stood next to one in Seattle a few years back....boy, was THAT guy pissed when two of us visited him and told him what had been done on/with THOSE vessels....!!!...seems the government left out a couple of details when they auctioned them off.....[imagine that]
~~~~~~~~
One of the sites you directed me to also said, "no armaments"...which is of course untrue. Not trying to be argumentative...it's just that true "details" from that time are tricky to come by.
I wouldn't know an 'AGI' from a 'WXYZ' as I spent most of my time in the radio shack and ET shack...and was told I "didn't NEED to know" more than once...inquisitive little feller, but to no avail.
~~~~~~~~~~~
What MIGHT interest you however is a happenstance that took place one day while "routing messages" in the radio shack:
You know those little "identification books" that give outlines and brief descriptions of various ships so you CAN make comparisons on visual sightings at sea...??
Well, one day we got a general message for all ships in the Pacific to strike a particular page. I thought my eyes were gonna fall out of my head when I turned to the "page" in question and realized it was OUR ship and the Eastman which were being "deleted".
I'm thinkin' to myself, "Great...they're ALREADY lying to us about the "harmless simulants" they're testing out at sea here, we've got the Russian Navy following us around, and NOW....our own frikkin' Navy won't know who we are"
A moment of TRUE REALIZATION came over me as I began to learn they really WEREN'T ever gonna "level" with the crew about what the HE** was going on.
~~~~~~~~
So Anchors Aweigh and all that.
If you know any sailors, have them check THIS out:
http://www1.va.gov/SHAD/
http://projectshad.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=1
http://freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14556
THANK YOU.
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