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Blair convenes Cobra team as crisis in Iran escalates
scotsman.com ^ | 25th March 2007 | BRIAN BRADY

Posted on 03/25/2007 5:17:55 AM PDT by Dog

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To: baubau

Negotiating with terrorists should never be an option.


101 posted on 03/25/2007 7:01:05 AM PDT by UKrepublican
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To: Glenn
There is nothing to be gained in provoking a confrontation, because that would be playing into their hands

The time and place for a confrontation is when you are prepared to do what you need to do to make the other guy say "Uncle." Obviously, the Brits are not yet ready to do this. but they had better get there because every day this crap is allowed to continue, the chance to grasp the initiative recedes. Maybe Blair could consult with Jimmuh Carter on what good protracted diplomatic dancing does with these vermin.

102 posted on 03/25/2007 7:04:15 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Dog

The writer finally tells us what the hell
COBRA stands for in the paragraph.


103 posted on 03/25/2007 7:07:05 AM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Crom! Non-Sequitur = Pee Wee Herman.)
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To: thomas16

The longer we delay this WWIII, the more your children wont have to worry about being drafted.

Better wake up.

This has been coming for decades.


104 posted on 03/25/2007 7:07:10 AM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8...down to 3..GWB, we hardly knew ye...)
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To: Dog
I think it's time to take the gloves off and get the entire EU to draft a -very- stern letter!

:-D
105 posted on 03/25/2007 7:08:50 AM PDT by Milwaukee_Guy (Don't hit them between the eyes. Hit them right -in- the eyes!)
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To: AD from SpringBay

These guys?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=H8Tva6i9O0Q


106 posted on 03/25/2007 7:14:15 AM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult (The man who said "there's no such thing as a stupid question" has never talked to Helen Thomas.)
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To: grey_whiskers

Imagine a police sergeant, sitting in his squad car, watching a bunch of criminals take on his own men, who were simply patrolling and enforcing the law. Rather than simply going to the aid of his men, the sergeant calls the precinct, who tells him to do nothing, but keep watching!

If the sergeant reacted correctly, his men would be safe. He might lose his career for stirring up the criminals and making them outraged over their loses, but his men would be safe. Yes, the news media of the city would call him a loose cannon, a war starter, a stirrer of pots. Leftist politicians would be outraged. BUT HIS MEN WOULD BE SAFE!

What to do, what to do.....?


107 posted on 03/25/2007 7:14:17 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: EQAndyBuzz

From what I understand, the incident took place in what is recognized internationally as Iraqi territory. Iran can claim whatever they please, but that does not mean their claim holds any weight outside of the Iranians minds.

The issue you speak of is nothing other than a diplomatic talking point aimed at stalling a response, but it wouldn't matter if they made that claim or not, the British won't respond with anything other than talk, or else their 15 sailors wouldn't be in Iranian custody.

It was an act of war, and the U.K. froze and backed down when they should have fought. Perhaps this will at least be a wakeup call for the rest of our forces in the region. If such an incident happens again, they should now be prepared to fight instead of wimping out as the British did on this occasion.


108 posted on 03/25/2007 7:15:50 AM PDT by Pox (Just say NO to RINO Rudy!)
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To: AD from SpringBay

"But seriously - England is a member of NATO. Does that mean anything?"

It means very little of late.


109 posted on 03/25/2007 7:16:55 AM PDT by Gum Shoe
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To: waimea.man

I don't think it was the primary influence for their move as Iran has pulled this stuff before ala'9 the 1979 hostage crisis and in 04' they snagged a # of British marines and they got away with both those maneuvers (but at the cost of becoming an international pariah state). However, the Hezbollah move last summer did illustrate that a stunt like this may invite a survivable limited conflict where just surviving equals victory


110 posted on 03/25/2007 7:17:50 AM PDT by jhpigott
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To: omega4179

ran doesn't have what it takes to start a world war we would end them in a week just like all the rest.

What planet do you live on? America doesn't have the WILL to defeat an enemy - we're divided and hamstrung.


111 posted on 03/25/2007 7:19:01 AM PDT by Gotterdammerung
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To: Pox
If such an incident happens again, they should now be prepared to fight instead of wimping out as the British did on this occasion.

Jeez louise, wouldn't it have been better to defend them on the water than try to get them back from Iran? If they're not prepared and willing to defend themselves they should just go home.

112 posted on 03/25/2007 7:25:07 AM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: thomas16
this forum used to have a more intellectual conversation about 5 years ago now all we have are abunch of chest thumping, bible thumping yahoos

And...you are doing a lot to help aren't you. Calling people yahoos is a real contribution, really moves the discussion to a higher plane. A bit of huffing and puffing and muscleflexing never hurt anyone, even if it doesn't change things. If it scares you then fine. Just say so and go home.

113 posted on 03/25/2007 7:25:14 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Dog

Did Javier Solana say this? Or did Blair? It was unclear to me in the post.
"There is nothing to be gained in provoking a confrontation, because that would be playing into their hands."

I agree with John Mill's thought below.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

-John Stuart Mill


114 posted on 03/25/2007 7:25:25 AM PDT by Gum Shoe
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To: Dog

I think Iran has finally crossed the line. Sounds like they're heading for a serious butt-whooping. Russia and China better not get in the way either.


115 posted on 03/25/2007 7:25:56 AM PDT by pctech
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To: Dog

Iranian student groups called yesterday for the 15 detainees to be held until US forces released five Revolutionary Guards captured in Iraq earlier this year.

Al-Sharq al-Awsat, a Saudi-owned newspaper based in London, quoted an Iranian military source as saying that the aim was to trade the Royal Marines and sailors for these Guards.

The claim was backed by other sources in Tehran. “As soon as the corps’s five members are released, the Britons can go home,” said one source close to the Guards.

He said the tactic had been approved by Ayatollah Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, who warned last week that Tehran would take “illegal actions” if necessary to maintain its right to develop a nuclear programme.


116 posted on 03/25/2007 7:26:23 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Mo1

When I saw COBRA, it evoked a Chuck Norris movie or a Stallone movie.

Now that I can see what it is, I really had a good chuckle.


117 posted on 03/25/2007 7:27:12 AM PDT by dforest (Liberals love crisis, create crisis and then dwell on them.)
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To: thomas16
You know if someone looks at us in a way we don't like let's blow them up! Yeah, that's what we should do! And we should do it before we think they'll blow us up! Yeah! Yeah! Lets start moving You got some kids? Send them over we'll show the world how brave I am!

What an idiot. You think capturing 15 people is equivalent to looking at someone the wrong way? Talking about other peoples lives, you are willing to trade 15 lives so you can be safe. You are a gutless wonder, and it wouldn't take an all out war to get them back and even if it did somethings are worth fighting for, 15 lives is one of them, or one life if it comes to that.

I suppose you think we should let them kidnap however meany they want and impose their will upon them as long as you can be safe at home not fighting or not having your children fight.

118 posted on 03/25/2007 7:29:15 AM PDT by calex59
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To: mewzilla
Jeez louise, wouldn't it have been better to defend them on the water than try to get them back from Iran? If they're not prepared and willing to defend themselves they should just go home.

This is precisely how I feel. I don't understand the mentality that simply abandons their troops in such a fashion. If you're not prepared to defend yourself you shouldn't even be there in the first place.

I do very much appreciate the help from Great Britain in the area, but this was simply too stupid to be believable.
119 posted on 03/25/2007 7:33:14 AM PDT by Pox (Just say NO to RINO Rudy!)
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To: Shady
Well, we'll never know, will we?

The Iranians captured those rubber dinghies as well as the people on them. They have the GPS locators, if in fact the British had them on the dinghies.

BTW, many of us do not realize, it was not the regular Navy that attacked and seized these sailors. Rather, it was the Revolutionary Guard navy that did this. So I simply do not trust any thing they may say about the situation. These hot heads need a defeat to understand they simply cannot get away with piracy.

For those who think this will start a war, I ask, when will you declare enough is enough? Perhaps the British and the USA should just leave the Middle East, as to avoid "provoking" Iran into a war? I'm no war monger (and I've served my share and then some), but unless we draw the line, these thugs will do more, not less.
120 posted on 03/25/2007 7:33:20 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: beebuster2000
the choice is not war or peace. the choice is: small war now, or big war later masquerading as peace now.

As Churchill stated after Munich, "They were given a choice between war and dishonor. They chose dishonor, and now will have war." Too bad Carter didn't know squat about history.

121 posted on 03/25/2007 7:36:19 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: hinckley buzzard
have you noticed how the most liberal and best educated people sometimes are the most ignorant of history?


122 posted on 03/25/2007 7:38:23 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: beebuster2000

Absolutely. Every time I try to use a historical analogy they respond with blank stares.


123 posted on 03/25/2007 7:40:04 AM PDT by mainepatsfan
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To: Guenevere

"I can't imagine American forces allowing this to happen before their eyes and not try to stop it.
And I mean that as no disservice to the Brits, I really don't."

This is primarily a british incident so I'm am sure Bush has already told Blair that we stand by them 100%. They have stood with us in both Iraq and Afghanistan. They are just weighing all the possibilities and consequences. Blair is the one that has more to lose if he doesn't act.

The NATO community needs to close all borders and air space in and out of Tehran. The U.N. just needs to go away. All of their cocktail parties over the years have shown how feckless and ineffective that body truely is. I truly don't know why it needs to be in the U.S. Relocate it to Fiji or somewhere. I cannot believe we were actually going to allow the Great Mahdi a visa to come to the U.S. after he states he wants nuke weapons and wants to wipe israel off the map. Are we insane?


124 posted on 03/25/2007 7:40:35 AM PDT by Tulsa Ramjet ("If not now, when?" "Because it's judgment that defeats us.")
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To: Dog
This just went bigtime...

Big Time "Talk".............no Action

The Islamists have had our number since Carter established the wimp doctrine and Clinton re-affirmed it. And now neither we nor our allies will be safe anywhere in the world, and somehow the left feels that this middle east mess is a result of Bush's doctrine. Can you believe it. They have had the worst foreign policy in the history of this country that we are just beginning to pay for and they want to transfer the blame and continue with more of the same fiasco.

All the mess we are in in the Middle East is because Carter failed to act (though Iran wasn't going to allow Reagan to be in office 10 minutes while they held the American hostages). Clinton proved to bin Laden (in bin Laden's own words and correctly so I might add) that America (at least the left) dosen't have the stomach to stand up for America and there by sends an engraved invitation to the Islamists, and the Kennedy's, Kerry's, Pelosi's, Murtha's and etc. of the world are lost in the fog of their own complicity in the root cause of this mess.

125 posted on 03/25/2007 7:41:07 AM PDT by scannell
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To: waimea.man
No answers. I suspect he's a moslem porker.
126 posted on 03/25/2007 7:41:45 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: hinckley buzzard

This guy is a clown, it appears that he cherry picks a thread every few months just to drop a few bombs.


127 posted on 03/25/2007 7:42:42 AM PDT by got_moab? (got_moab? now comes complete with 50% MORE Hyper-conservatism!!)
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To: Dog

So, as I understand it - the Brits had a frigate there but the Commodore was ordered to hold his fire....

Well, why bother having a frigate there?

Save yourself some money - and get rid of the frigate and just have a bunch of inflatable rafts running about since you aren't going to use the fire power of the frigate anyway.

This is NOT the much vaunted British Navy of old. That was a Navy that controlled the world.

Now they can't even control some beach boats sent out by a two bit country like Iran to capture their people and equipment.

And....its the second time in a couple of years this has happened so its not some fluke.

It's a symptom -

If the British Navy is at this level of "fright" - we, the United States, are indeed alone.

Of course, there was the time when a two person motor boat was able to come alongside a U.S. N. war vessel and blew up and almost sank our destroyer. Killed our sailors. Because we forgot that it is a very old naval precept to always always always defend and protect the ship - especially in a hostile harbor. To allow a harbor craft to come alongside without challenge is inconceivable.

These people need to re-read some of the old naval literature - going back about 500 years.

Well, we are not only alone, we are also going down the same road.


128 posted on 03/25/2007 7:43:30 AM PDT by Basheva
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To: EQAndyBuzz

This was clearly planned and I believe the Captain of the ship the British stopped was in on ot. It was an ambush clear and simple and the second time they have done this. How long before they do it again? Time to make an example.

Why didn't the britsh commander go get his men back and then notify the politicians? If he got fired he would still be a national hero.

Lets see the brits were in uniform conducting a sanction mi9ssion and the five Iranians were in civilian clothes conducting military operations against coalition forces. Who are the spies?


129 posted on 03/25/2007 7:44:02 AM PDT by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: thomas16

I was upset in 1991 when we didn't finish the job in Iraq, I was royally pissed that Carter didn't level Iran when they had our diplomats. My son is deployed over in the Persian Gulf as we speak and I say nuke Iran back to the stone age so my grandchildren won't have to deal with it.


130 posted on 03/25/2007 7:45:36 AM PDT by flynmudd (Terrorists Running Away From US Soldiers Just Makes Them Die Tired)
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To: hinckley buzzard

I like Daladier's response to the acclaim he received when he returned to Paris after Munich. He said to his aid, "The fools!".


131 posted on 03/25/2007 7:45:47 AM PDT by mainepatsfan
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To: TADSLOS
Call in the SandBaggers....
132 posted on 03/25/2007 7:45:52 AM PDT by spokeshave ("Hitlery is uniting the country. Everybody hates her.")
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To: Guenevere
I can't imagine American forces allowing this to happen before their eyes and not try to stop it.

Given the "restraint" Washington puts on our troops in the field, not hard to imagine at all.

133 posted on 03/25/2007 7:45:52 AM PDT by DTogo (I haven't left the GOP, the GOP left me.)
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To: grey_whiskers

"I hereby re-christen that boat the HMS Cornwallis."

H.M.S. Chamberlain.


134 posted on 03/25/2007 7:46:29 AM PDT by GovernmentIsTheProblem (Capitalism is the economic expression of individual liberty. Pass it on.)
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To: baubau

"Some don't have children to send. Some won't send their chidlren. While others are affected by doublethink, or the concept of holding two contradictory ideas in one's mind and accepting both of them."

NOBODY sends their children!

Their adult offspring hear the call to duty and volunteer.


135 posted on 03/25/2007 7:47:34 AM PDT by GovernmentIsTheProblem (Capitalism is the economic expression of individual liberty. Pass it on.)
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To: mainepatsfan
by the way. whats the relevance of this picture to the current situation? Its the last time the US successfully dealt with suicide attacks

40mm guns of the USS HORNET fire at Japanese suicide dive bombers, the Kamikazes, as the carrier's own planes were raiding Tokyo, February 16, 1945. By the end of the war, Japan will have sent an estimated 2,257 Kamikazes. "The only weapon I feared in the war," Admiral Halsey said.

136 posted on 03/25/2007 7:47:52 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: maquiladora
I think we, or the Brits, should do the unexpected like Israel did to Hamas. Hamas was surprised Israel responded how it did and it cost Hamas lots of soldiers and equipment. This is a good opportunity to sink an Iranian ship per day the prisoners are held and claim we're just responding to an act of war? I wish of course
137 posted on 03/25/2007 7:49:08 AM PDT by pangaea6
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To: conserveababe
"If you're talking Mrs. Bill Clinton, then probably the same way Jimmy Carter "handled" the first Iranian hostage crisis"

I don't think so...shrillary wants a Belgrado moment....something like a multiple Fosterization.

138 posted on 03/25/2007 7:50:17 AM PDT by spokeshave ("Hitlery is uniting the country. Everybody hates her.")
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To: Pox

"and although the sailors would have been extremely vulnerable in that situation, the alternative has now left the U.K. looking like a weakling who will not properly defend her troops nor fight when push comes to shove."

Think of this from the perspective of other British troops.

Think of the other British troops and sailors "on the line."
What do you think it does to their morale, to know the commanders of their fellow troops will order them to stand down and watch if they themselves are captured?


139 posted on 03/25/2007 7:50:44 AM PDT by GovernmentIsTheProblem (Capitalism is the economic expression of individual liberty. Pass it on.)
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To: thomas16
Are you for real, you obviously want world war 3, you mustn't have children that would be eligible for draft in a few years. I just love all this chest pounding.

Neville Chamberlain never made the kids safe.

The children are best kept safe by enemies knowing that if they screw with them they will get their heads handed to them in a major way.....and lose things that are valuable....quickly.
140 posted on 03/25/2007 7:54:30 AM PDT by Arkinsaw
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To: beebuster2000

I can't tell you how many people have told me this war is different because we're facing an enemy that doesn't care whether they live or die. Then I naturally ask, "What about the kamikazes?". Again blank stares.


141 posted on 03/25/2007 7:58:19 AM PDT by mainepatsfan
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To: Dog

I wonder how long it will take the American Liberals to claim it was all Bush's fault.


142 posted on 03/25/2007 7:58:33 AM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: Nextrush

The world should impose the strongest sanctions proposed to date and make them stick. Russia should be told they will be removed from most favored nations trade status if they balk and China the same.


143 posted on 03/25/2007 7:59:09 AM PDT by scannell
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To: Basheva
This is NOT the much vaunted British Navy of old. That was a Navy that controlled the world.

It's hard to let go of the past. Many still identify the British with their forebears who fought at Waterloo, the Somme, etc. However, the fact is that a vast majority of today's inhabitants in the UK, France and Germany are, by definition, descendants of those who survived WWI ie cowards & weaklings.

IOW, they owe their positions simply because their potential competition was never born. An entire generational warrior class, numbering in the millions, were erased from gene pool, never to return. I call them BINO, FINO & GINOs, respectively. They speak the same language, look somewhat the same, and even claim the region's history, but it is not them.

Today's situation can be traced back to 1914, not just 1979, et al.

144 posted on 03/25/2007 8:00:49 AM PDT by Chuck Dent
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To: baubau

You are seriously deluded. The so called snatch of Iranian diplomats is because the Iranians have been meddling in and provoking the war in Iraq and funding both the insurgents and the radical shia's (no capital not by accident). They are all clones of a guttural religion.


145 posted on 03/25/2007 8:01:52 AM PDT by scannell
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To: mainepatsfan

here is your problem.

when you said "what about the kamikazes" they thought you were talking about the drink.


146 posted on 03/25/2007 8:02:11 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: veronica

The Brits are doing nothing. They need USA approval before any action is put in place. Lets remember the Falkland isle war.


147 posted on 03/25/2007 8:03:01 AM PDT by SeeSalt
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To: Almondjoy

Heck they're probably already trying to blame the pet food poisonings on him.


148 posted on 03/25/2007 8:03:10 AM PDT by mainepatsfan
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To: Dog

"The official notification, delivered in secure calls yesterday... "

PERHAPS NOT SO SECURE....


149 posted on 03/25/2007 8:04:39 AM PDT by traumer
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To: Guenevere
I can't imagine American forces allowing this to happen before their eyes and not try to stop it.

I can.

We should all just finally face up to the fact that we have a lot different brand of leadership now than we had with the likes of Churchill and Eisenhower.

150 posted on 03/25/2007 8:08:50 AM PDT by Condor 63
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