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Blair convenes Cobra team as crisis in Iran escalates
scotsman.com ^ | 25th March 2007 | BRIAN BRADY

Posted on 03/25/2007 5:17:55 AM PDT by Dog

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To: JWinNC

"Why were 15 British sailors sitting in dinghies?

How could they become surrounded by Iranian vessels?

Where was their mother ship and why would they allow the Iranians to leave with the sailors?"

Poor military planning.
Lack of cover and backup for boarding parties and their vessels.
Lack of existing standing orders REQUIRING the senior on-scene commander to protect his folks in whatever manner necessary.
Lack of a reaction plan to prevent enemy access to their port facilities after commiting this kind of aggression by destruction of those facilities if necessary.
Inexcusable lack of planning on the part of military leadership, especially since this exact same thing has happened before in the same waters.


401 posted on 03/26/2007 7:04:45 PM PDT by rogator
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To: Guenevere
Esp when in less than three years' past the same incident unfolded as a national GB embarrassment. Repeat the same mistake and respond the same way and the results may not vary.
402 posted on 03/26/2007 7:14:03 PM PDT by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: rogator

I'd say that nails it square on...

lessons unlearned.

jw


403 posted on 03/26/2007 7:19:38 PM PDT by JWinNC (www.anailinhisplace.net)
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To: SlayerOfBunnies
Lol good point. He apparently has as little sense of time as he does strategy/tactics.

Well, he goes on and on about chest thumping, yahoos and "having others fight the war" while he never gives any reason why we should not go after the Iranian regime. His is the policy of appeasement and weakness. You cannot negotiate or reason with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He will have to be addressed militarily and will probably have to be taken out.

404 posted on 03/26/2007 7:19:45 PM PDT by CurlyBill (Democrats: Weak on defense, soft on crime, tough on your wallet)
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To: livius
This was Rosies theme this morning. It is all a right wing plot like the Bay of Tonkin under LBJ to have a reason for us to fight with Iran..Consider the source..
405 posted on 03/26/2007 7:23:21 PM PDT by BooBoo1000 (Some times I wake up grumpy, other times I let her sleep/)
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To: livius
This was Rosies theme this morning. It is all a right wing plot like the Bay of Tonkin under LBJ to have a reason for us to fight with Iran..Consider the source..
406 posted on 03/26/2007 7:23:24 PM PDT by BooBoo1000 (Some times I wake up grumpy, other times I let her sleep/)
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To: Dog
Maggie Thatcher kicked Argentinian arse.

What does Blair do?

Kiss Iranian arse?

Perhaps Blair should ask for a pair from the Iron Lady.

407 posted on 03/26/2007 7:26:27 PM PDT by Thumper1960 (Unleash the Dogs of War as a Minority, or perish as a party.)
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To: scoastie


..... or a handful of well-place cruise missiles could torch a good portion of Iran's refining capacity, which would remind the Mullahs of how quickly and easily they can be returned to the 7th century. Iran's economy is already teetering, and they are desperate for more refining capacity (they have to import at least 40% of their refined petroleum products). Take out just 1 or 2 or 3 of Iran's 10 key refineries (and/or supporting pipelines) and they are immediately plunged into economic catastrophe...... major shortages and inflation, etc. The main danger (besides wimpy liberal "opinion" with much wailing and gnashing of teeth) is that it could swing the Iranian population toward a nationalist rallying cry with the loathsome Mullahocracy, which is currently immensely unpopular. Even Stalin was able to make himself a lot more popular (though the catastrophes for the USSR in summer 1941 were largely his fault) by using nationalism against the enemy.


408 posted on 03/26/2007 7:26:38 PM PDT by Enchante (Nifong, Fitzfong, Earlefong, Schumerfong, Waxmanfong...... Is there a pattern here?!?)
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To: JWinNC

Senior naval leadership involved in preparing or approving operational or contingency plans in that part of the world should have been "retired" by Saturday evening.


409 posted on 03/26/2007 7:39:13 PM PDT by rogator
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To: Dog

Just checked BBC and other British newspapers this evening for news on the kidnapping of these British sailors. It is absolutely amazing that you could read these papers and never know that this has happened unless you go to read some fine print. It seems that the British are so turned off on the war that they could care less about these servicemen. The Telegram one of the more conservative newspapers did have a story but even there they mentioned that never again should their nation be involved in trying to bring democracy to a part of the world that is not going to accept same and warned about any efforts to do the same for Iran.

Thought that readers on this website should know what is going on in the land of our chief ally. I personally believe that most of the rhetoric supporting this war came from Tony Blair not the US. If anything, GWB was bamboozled into to the attack on Saddam by the high flying idealism of Blair and now that ally is going to disappear from the scene within months leaving the US holding the bag.


410 posted on 03/26/2007 7:39:47 PM PDT by brydic1
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To: brydic1

"Just checked BBC and other British newspapers this evening for news on the kidnapping of these British sailors. It is absolutely amazing that you could read these papers and never know that this has happened unless you go to read some fine print. It seems that the British are so turned off on the war that they could care less about these servicemen."

A good leftist would call this supporting the troops. At least they are not burning them in effigy.
Don't dare question their patriotism.


411 posted on 03/26/2007 7:46:47 PM PDT by rogator
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To: BooBoo1000

These people (Rosie and her ilk) are nuts. The other thing that I find hard to understand is how Rosie, a failed, has-been comedienne, can somehow consider herself an expert on foreign policy. And to make it even more frightening, she apparently has an audience that believes her...


412 posted on 03/26/2007 7:51:35 PM PDT by livius
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To: brydic1

You'd never know this crisis was going on at all if you read the US press; the only place I'm seeing anything about it is here on FR, where people are gleaning little scraps from various sources.

As for Blair, I doubt that he talked GWB into anything with regard to Iraq. But whether he did or not, I honestly don't think the US would indulge in such idealistic plans again: no more attempting to conquer a country without any civilian damage, no more attempting to bring the blessings of democracy before the conquered citizens have a nice long period under martial law until they settle down, etc. And no more foggy ideas about Islam as a "religion of peace."


413 posted on 03/26/2007 7:59:34 PM PDT by livius
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To: livius
Bush may have wanted to be talked into the Iraq adventure to get rid of Saddam but if you go back and read the statements of Blair, not a day went by that he did not enthuse over the prospect of ending Saddam's rule and bringing democracy to Iraq. I knew, however, if the going got rough neither the British people nor Europeans in general would support these efforts.
414 posted on 03/26/2007 8:22:12 PM PDT by brydic1
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To: Glenn

Don't confuse yourself. Bombing Iran would not be Iraq Part 2. It would be a merciless air campaign. Not a boot on the ground would ever be needed after we got through with them via sea and sky.


415 posted on 03/26/2007 10:43:19 PM PDT by My Favorite Headache (Liberals : So open-minded....their brains have all fallen out)
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To: My Favorite Headache
Exactly. It would be a hammer from God reigning down upon the poor bastards. There would be no defense. There would be no hiding from it. And afterwords those ignorant little imams will have to answer to the people with no secret police to back them up.
416 posted on 03/26/2007 11:05:24 PM PDT by miliantnutcase ("If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it." -ichabod1)
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To: epluribus_2

Roger that. It's "Tales of the Arabian Knights" over there. Always has been.


417 posted on 03/27/2007 1:56:09 AM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (Veritas. Gravitas. Ohmygas.)
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To: Dog
Nah, I think he needs to call the Thundercats instead...
418 posted on 03/27/2007 4:37:48 AM PDT by Spacetrucker (The truth always hurts more...)
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To: livius
 And to make it even more frightening, she apparently has an audience that believes her...
 
I wonder why....
 
 
NIV Romans 1:24-32
 24.  Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
 25.  They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
 26.  Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
 27.  In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
 28.  Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
 29.  They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
 30.  slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful;
they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
 31.  they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
 32.  Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
 
 
 

419 posted on 03/27/2007 4:54:32 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Dog
Eliminate Iran and then erase North Korea.

That would send a "message" as the political imbeciles are wont to repeatedly say.

420 posted on 03/27/2007 4:54:33 AM PDT by mborman (No Rudys, please!)
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To: cake_crumb
....and depending on who's charge....yes it is possible.

But what if President Clinton is in charge?

If we just stop and think a minute or so about such a possiblity can one keep from vomiting up breakfast as well as last night's dinner?

Many (unfortunately) Americans are so freaking stupid that the possibility of this happening is the greatest threat that America has ever faced.

The confused gender "wife" of a serial rapist ex-governor of Arkansas travels up to New Yarkansas and gets elected senator in order to fulfill her perverted childhood fantasy. Just unbelievable!

421 posted on 03/27/2007 5:00:34 AM PDT by mborman (No Rudys, please!)
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To: thomas16
I have a son eligible for draft in two years, and two daughters currently available if equal rights apply.

I am 100 percent convinced that Iran has to be hit with everything we have, and hit now. I truly believe that Iran will smuggle nukes into US ports the day they have them. That day, a reaction will be to late.

Why am I convinced? I take their leader at his word.
422 posted on 03/27/2007 5:33:54 AM PDT by PA-RIVER
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To: maquiladora

In cases like this it is a mistake to try to rescue. Rescues are suicide missions. The correct approach is to hold the hostage taking country hostage. Start a 12 hour clock ticking... make it clear that Tehran will be a very unpleasant please when the twelve hours are up unless all of the hostages are out of Iran before the time expires. The message should be communicated privately to Iran's leaders.


423 posted on 03/27/2007 7:51:54 AM PDT by LongViewSC
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To: Glenn
in the old days, the Royal Navy would be off the coast of Iran in a week or so, the British would land troops in the south and take control of the Straits of Hormuz.

how the mighty have fallen

424 posted on 03/27/2007 8:03:52 AM PDT by wny
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To: Normal4me
Time to start seizing Iran's oil tankers.

No, time to lay a conventional weapon into downtown Qom. Show 'em you mean business.

425 posted on 03/27/2007 9:32:43 AM PDT by Rapscallion (Victory in war means winning, unless you are a democ-rat.)
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To: AD from SpringBay
But seriously - England is a member of NATO. Does that mean anything?

Inasmuch as Denmark is also a Charter member nation, and it's sovereign territory was physically attcked last year over the "cartoon" thing, I guess you can only draw your own conclusion about Nato membership, even as I have done...

the infowarrior

426 posted on 03/27/2007 9:35:41 PM PDT by infowarrior
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To: PhilDragoo
INCOMING


427 posted on 03/27/2007 11:46:24 PM PDT by potlatch
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To: ohioWfan
Look, I'll go with you if you say that the current President is the best one we've had since Reagan (and if it weren't for Reagan, the best one since...?) but to compare him to the man that won the cold war? Please.

Our current President has done a number of things well in spite of an avalanche of trouble (9/11, hurricanes, inheriting crap economy, etc.) BUT he's also the guy currently ignoring illegal immigration. He's also the guy that tried to give us Justice Harriet Meyers. He's also the guy in charge while our Congress spends like a bunch of drunken Kennedys.

By far, he was the best choice of all those running for President (with a realistic chance of being elected, anyway) but he's no Reagan.
428 posted on 03/28/2007 7:35:47 AM PDT by SlayerOfBunnies (An Indian friend of mine wishes to remind everyone... Indians <> muslims)
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To: SlayerOfBunnies
He's facing far worse circumstances than Reagan and living up to the challenge with courage and strength.

In some areas (the sanctity of life, for one), he is stronger than Reagan. One of those areas is in the appointment of SC justices. They are even and both wrong, IMO on immigration.

Just for the historical record, conservatives were down on Reagan at this point in his second term, and far beyond that.

They woke up eventually to what some of us already knew.........that Reagan was great.

Some day, those of you who are missing the boat on President Bush will wake up too.

And I promise not to say "I told you so" when you do. :)

429 posted on 03/28/2007 7:58:28 AM PDT by ohioWfan (PRAY for our President and our troops!!)
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To: ohioWfan

Wheres Jessie Jackson when you need him? LMAO!!


430 posted on 03/28/2007 5:48:03 PM PDT by JessieHelmsJr
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To: thomas16
I just love all this chest pounding.

Take your moralizing and use it as a suppository. Letting these tinpot dictators get whatever they want because of drama queens like you is how we got WWII. We need to stop this now before it becomes WWIII.

431 posted on 03/28/2007 7:06:39 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (A pacifist sees no distinction between the arsonist and the fireman--Freeper ccmay)
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To: Alas Babylon!

I know this will sound like an "Internet tough guy" post, but I mean it. Had I been commanding HMS Cornwall, I would have opened up on the Iranians with the 4.5 inch gun up forward, and if the brass wanted to try and court martial me when I got home, I guess I'd just have to suck it up.


432 posted on 03/28/2007 7:13:57 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (A pacifist sees no distinction between the arsonist and the fireman--Freeper ccmay)
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To: thomas16
You know if someone looks at us in a way we don't like let's blow them up!

Listen to me, and listen to me good, because you will take this as more chest thumping, but you better believe that I'm talking about stopping violence, not increasing it.

When a man, say a guy who is President of Iran, stands up and says, "World, I'd just like you to know that there's a whole country I'd like to wipe out, every man woman and child, make 'em dead as a door nail," there's only one appropriate and moral response from the world community. They should kill him before the day is out.

That's right, they should kill him. Any of the times this guy said he wanted to eliminate Israel, there should have been so many planes from so many air forces stacked up over his house with bombs that we had to send air traffic controllers in to make sure they didn't collide. We could have let them immulsify his terrorist ass alphabetically. "Algeria, you're cleared to roll in hot on the target. Mind the Albanian MiG climbing out over the rubble pile. Good day sir."

We sat around and picked our nose back in the Thirties when some crazed nutbar got ahold of a country and said he wanted to kill every Jew. You may be aware of the little conflict that resulted. They called it WWII. It only cost tens of millions of people.

We need to deal with this guy or your kids will be in a war. Or maybe they will have peace...because maybe they'll be jiahdi Muslims--bowing to the twisted moon god Ahmadinejad worships--and liking it.

If someone isn't willing to agree with you bunch of yahoos they must be a Democrat, this forum used to have a more intellectual conversation about 5 years ago now all we have are abunch of chest thumping, bible thumping yahoos.

That's funny...I joined this forum almost seven years ago and I don't remember any threads where people agreed we should all take crap from anti-Semites and let whole countries get wiped out. Maybe I was out of town that day. By the way, thanks for the slap against Christians...trust me sweetheart, nobody needs to hear the voice of God to get this one.

If you all want war so bad sign up! Go on over!

I did my bit when I was young and slim. Now I'm old and pudgy. But other young, slim men are willing to fight this one so your kids don't have to. And unlike you, they realize that when a man wants to kill little children for his god, he has no purpose on this earth other than as a range target.

We're trying to save your children, Israel's children, even Iran's children. We might fight a short war against military targets, or even just kill one guy, and stop a nuclear holocaust that would kill millions. If you can't figure that one out, take your broken moral compass and wander off somewhere out of the way of humans who have brains.

Oh, and be sure to read my tagline. It was written for the likes of you.

433 posted on 03/28/2007 7:48:02 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (A pacifist sees no distinction between the arsonist and the fireman--Freeper ccmay)
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To: ohioWfan
Well sir - I agree with your tagline anyway (and a fair amount of your content). I'm not down on Bush (other than in a few isolated areas), I'm just up on Reagan.
434 posted on 03/29/2007 5:06:06 AM PDT by SlayerOfBunnies (An Indian friend of mine wishes to remind everyone... Indians <> muslims)
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To: SlayerOfBunnies
I'm up on Reagan, and up on Bush because they are the same kind of man and the same kind of leader.

Actually, I think the kind of idolization (not that I've seen from you) of Reagan that goes on from some around here diminishes his true greatness.

But the point of what they are doing in mythologizing Reagan is to belittle the great man who now leads us.............and they don't hide it very well.

In Reagan's second term, there were plenty of conservatives who bashed Reagan mercilessly, but I was not one of them. His true greatness was always visible to those with eyes to see it.

The same is true with President George W. Bush. He is an honorable, courageous man and a great leader and my fellow conservatives will recognize that some day.

The pseudo-cons probably won't, but their opinion isn't worth a hill of beans.....

435 posted on 03/29/2007 6:22:49 AM PDT by ohioWfan (PRAY for our President and our troops!!)
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To: Alas Babylon!
bttt

HMS Cornwall could have, should have stopped it then!

436 posted on 03/29/2007 8:29:49 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER; Mr. Silverback

437 posted on 03/29/2007 8:37:57 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Dog
Start grabbing every Iranian there is everywhere in the world, and shipping them to Gitmo. And every Iranian vessel on the high seas. And every Iranian cargo. They want to play pirate, show them who loses if the seas are not free. Don't offer any of it back, don't offer to stop, don't ask for anything. Don't say anything, just act. The time for words is over. Deeds please.
438 posted on 03/29/2007 8:40:29 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: antivenom
Just grab all their ships tomorrow, and keep them. Simple.
439 posted on 03/29/2007 8:41:39 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: potlatch

Are they new ?

They look good.


440 posted on 03/29/2007 8:42:03 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Pox
This went nowhere. The Iranians calculated that the British would not do anything other than talk, and they are correct.

I don't think so. What's the old adage? Rattling a saber makes noise, drawing it does not...

As a previous post commented - "Spineless..." Totally wrong IMHO. Note the statement said something to the effect of not letting the Iranians have it all their way. For us Yanks, we have to remember that the British are far more understated and subtle than us. (for better or worse) Where we might say "Return our personnel, or else." the British say "...not have it all their way." The language may be different, but the intent and resolve behind it is not.

The Iranians would do well to remember a bit of US history... That part about "The British are coming, the British are coming!" ;-) Ask Argentina.

441 posted on 03/29/2007 8:46:16 PM PDT by CodeMasterPhilzar
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To: Guenevere
The 2001 P-3 Orion incident was pretty close. Bush's weak response to Chicom aggression, in my not so humble opinion, is what emboldened the 9-11 terrorists to go through with their attacks. Our enemies are watching how we and Gr. Britain are reacting to this latest incident and sizing us up. This is going to be an interesting summer.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

442 posted on 03/29/2007 8:54:56 PM PDT by wku man (Claire Wolfe's "awkward time" is quickly coming to an end!)
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To: george76; PhilDragoo

Lol, no, I made them sometime back in different sizes too.

Each time Phil posts his 'Ahmadine-nutcase' I post them in reply!!


443 posted on 03/29/2007 9:09:50 PM PDT by potlatch
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To: pleikumud

the brave freedom loving Iranians need to have their country back. The whackos have already declared war on the US and Britain...so to speak. They have supplied the bombs that have murdered over 170 of our service people. We should wipe out all of their military before they blow up one or more of our cities.


444 posted on 03/29/2007 9:18:39 PM PDT by fabian
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To: thomas16

A war with Iran would not be a world war, and I dont see Russia or China jumping in. You are overreacting.


445 posted on 03/30/2007 10:22:11 AM PDT by veryconernedamerican
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To: JasonC

Iraq needs a navy


446 posted on 03/30/2007 10:25:02 AM PDT by veryconernedamerican
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To: Dog

The response to the inquiry, which had been immediately patched through to Ministry of Defence headquarters in Whitehall, was to hold fire.

The Gutless British leadership...

England is Adrift..... a lamb to slaughter.

Cherrio! Wankers.... "Big Ears" is sipping his tea.

Ta Ta ! chin up ole-Boy!...theres a good fellow!

No 'Bullocks" to be found.

Only Sissys...


447 posted on 03/30/2007 12:29:37 PM PDT by LtKerst (Lt Kerst)
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