And here they are in Islamic mode:
Posted on 03/25/2007 9:58:20 AM PDT by Chi-townChief
For the past two decades, Barack Obama has been a faithful member of the congregation at Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ. Trinity is no run-of-the-mill black church. It's social activism and political awareness on pure, natural holy water. Trinity's progressive pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, preaches the black theology of liberation. And he practices what he preaches. Back when apartheid was the law of the land in South Africa, when Nelson Mandela was a political prisoner and when American corporations, institutions and the U.S. government all gave their blessings to those evil doings, the dashiki-wearing minister planted a ''Free South Africa'' sign on the church's lawn. Obama's spiritual mentor has routinely been on the right side of morality, championing liberal causes from gay rights to opposition of the war in Iraq. Shortly after Sen. Obama launched his run for the presidency last month, Erik Rush, a right-wing Christian blogger who happens to be African American, discovered what had been hiding in plain sight: The motto for Trinity United is ''Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian.''
Trinity's motto, as well as its mission to eradicate what W.E.B. DuBois called ''the problem of the color line'' and ''the strange meaning of being black here,'' so incensed Rush that he wrote a blistering blog about it. It was unnerving for him to learn that the South Side church had adopted a ''Black Value System'' and that its 8,000 black members are committed to the ''Black Community,'' the ''Black Family'' and ''the Black Work Ethic.'' In his blog, Rush ignores -- or is just ignorant about -- the nearly 200-year-long tradition of the black church's struggle to free and elevate its people while slyly substituting the words white for black and then disingenuously concluding that ''like the Nation of Islam, a white separatist church or the Branch Davidians, Trinity United more resembles a cult than a church.''
No doubt that concept came as news to the thousands of well-heeled, professional and middle-class black Chicagoans who are members of the church. And no doubt media mogul Oprah Winfrey and rap star Common, who have both attended Trinity, were surprised to discover they were cultists. But quicker than you could say ''holy fit,'' the cable conservatives were clucking and complaining to the high heavens. Tucker Carlson, MSNBC's very own Fox News-type right-wing host, opined that, ''This stuff sounds separatist to me.''
Sean Hannity, the conservative half of Fox News' lightweight talk show, ''Hannity and Colmes,'' sounded as if this country was going to hypocritical hell. If a white presidential candidate's church had a similar statement and ''you substitute the word white for black, there would be an outrage in this country,'' Hannity preached. ''There would be cries of racism in this country.''
True and Catch-22. If a white church plainly and proudly pronounced its whiteness, Hannity, Carlson and company would be right. But if it was the Holy Trinity Polish Church on Chicago's North Side, proclaiming its Polishness, who'd care? This is how African Americans find ourselves in a trick bag. We're defined racially even when we're acting like any other of this nation's ethnic groups. Issues knee-jerkily become black and white when in reality they may be African American and Irish American. Or Serbian American and African American. Remove black and substitute another American ethnic group so that Trinity's Concept No. 6 reads: ''Adherence to the Mexican Work Ethic.'' Does that still sound separatist? Or racist? Of course not. But, if you're insincerely espousing color blindness, while holding the race card up your sleeve, you know you can easily trump African-American ethnic pride every time.
Obama's political advisers know this as well. That's why, at the last minute, Obama disinvited Wright to speak last month when he officially announced his presidential candidacy. Wright says that Obama now realizes that his political handlers gave him bad advice and that all is well between him and the senator.
I say this is just one more sad example of how ethnic identity gets color-coded for African Americans. And I believe it's just one more sign that there are those who would place Obama in political purgatory -- painting him not good enough to be black and not right enough to be white.
mailto:monroeanderson@gmail.com
Or is this self identification based on ones "color".
Can anyone help me with this?
Has Obama ever been asked his view on reparations?
A major Presidential candidate following liberation theology. Nice.
Supposedly, he's against them - and with his slave-holding ancestry, you can probably understand why.
There are other questions about this church. For instance, if reports are correct, they favor abortion. And they appear to put their commitment to race above their commitment to Jesus. I'd say this guy is more of a left-wing politician than a minister of the Gospel.
Valid question. My grandfather's father was from Great Britain. What color is my skin?
Sure highpockets, glad to help.
You see...uh...well it's like this, because they are...uh?
Mmmm. Can I get back to you on this?
Also brings to mind the "Puerto Rico paradox."
If Obama considers himself black - does that mean he denies he is as much white as black?
Isn't that bigoted?
It sure as hell does!
Who are they kidding?
One moment please while I access the Sub7 trojan on your computer and activate your web cam...
http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/Home.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=RecordDetails&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED267144&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=eric_accno&objectId=0900000b8010bca5
"All respondents classified themselves as either white or trigueno (an intermediate category), avoiding classifications of Black, Mulatto, or other."
If Holy Trinity Church on Chicago's North Side were to proclaim its Polishness, I think I'd still feel welcome (I am of English extraction). I think someone of Ethiopianb extraction would also feel welcome there as well). I -- or a person of Ethiopian extraction might feel out of place -- but neither of us would be exclused simply because we are not of Polish extraction.
Obama's church, on the other hand, is ONLY open to people of a certain race -- regardless of their ethnic background.
It is NOT the same as Holy Trinity Church on Chicaog's North Side.
At Barama's chruch, Race -- not ethnic background -- is what matters. If you are not of the preferred race -- then you are not welcome, regardless of your ethnic background.
At Holy Trinity, your ethnic background and your race do not matter. All are welcome. If you are not Polish, though, you may feel out of place.
At Obama's church, if you are not of a certain race, you can never feel out of place, because you are not welcome.
;)
*****At Obama's church, if you are not of a certain race, you can never feel out of place, because you are not welcome.****
Ah - the hate crime (or speech) that only works one way.
Were I a Christian living near this church I would seek entry and make an issue of it.
Kind of like reversing the lunch counter routine.
I was with a friend of mine not long ago who was born in South Africa..he's white, but calls himself african-american (out of spite for those who call themselves african-american), but were born in detroit (or any other U.S. city) and are 4th/5th generation U.S. born and bred..he's gotten into (almost violent) arguments when he states he's more "african-american" than they are..it doesn't go over well, even though he's 100% correct..
he even applied for a job and checked "african-american" on the application, but was told by the person taking the app that he "wasn't black" and couldn't check that box, he had to check white/caucasion..
figure that one out..
I'm not sure that's true - I would imagine that lefties of all varieties are welcome there.
Most churches are either black or white churches, where a person of the other race would feel awkward or excluded if they went there. Sunday morning has been said to be the most segregated time of the week. Some of the so-called "megachurches" appear to be more intergrated.
Exactly. This is the sort of thing that will destroy Obama politically. Watch Hillary's people subtly start to get this out.
The first words on the Trinity United Church of Christ's "About Us" web page are these:
"We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian"
The criteria seems to be whether or not another's "African Americaness" would dilute the reparations pool too much, without disqualifying oneself.
Put another way, it is a measure of gimmeeness.
That's doesn't mean that if a white person were to show up at the front door that they would be turned away. I am sure they would receive a lot of stares and be made to feel uncomfortable and unwelcome, however.
How about a church based upon 'Adherence to the White Work Ethic.'
That should be OK. Not racist or separatist that I can see. ;-)
>> For the past two decades, Barack Obama has been a faithful member of the congregation at Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ. <<
Define faithful: his membership hasn't lapsed to my knowledge, but I understand he never went to church much. And calling the UCC church is an overstatement; it's mostly ritualized agnosticism. They're best known for burning question marks on people's lawns. (I know, I know, that's universalists, but UCC is becoming very universalist lately.)
My church is "majority white", if you will, mainly of Irish and Polish extraction, but we also have quite a few black, Hispanic, Asian, and Arab parishioners as well.
Obama dumped the "woman he loved", and decided not to marry her, because she was white. He said that it would have required him to integrate himself into 'her white world', rather than for her to integrate integrate herself 'into his world'.
He later married a black woman.
Between that, and his church, he definitely sounds bigoted to me.
A "Polish church" would proclaim itself "Polish" to inform other Catholics that Father Smigielski might be more adept at speaking to your Polish-speaking uncle than he would be to Vinny's Aunt Maria. St. Stanislaw's might be slightly more likely to have a party for Jan Sobiesky than for St. Brigitte (go see Our Lady of Knock for that one).
Unless there attendees of Barrack Hussein's church lapsed into Kiswahili or Yoruba when they got old and tired, the comparison is totally illegitimate.
see my post #19, you're 100% correct..
In this country, you generally are considered to be black if you have any black ancestry. There are many black people who are far more white-looking than Obama who are definately black. Obama looks black, and if you saw on the street and didn't know who he was, I bet you wouldn't guess that he was half-white.
My friend was born in the former Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), who happens to be white and descended from immigrants to Rhodesia from New Zealand.
He married a lady who was also born in Rhodesia, descended from immigrants from England.
They had several children together -- after the country became Zimbabwe.
The entire family, considers themselves Rhodesians.
They saw the writing on the wall -- left Zimbabwe and came to America.
He purchased a fine home in one of the more elite sections of town and entered their children into some of the best schools available to residents of that area..
Soon, due to RACIAL busing to achieve some dumb ass politician's idea of "racial integration" throughout the area -- they informed my friend that 2 of his "majority" read as WHITE children would be bused downtown as part of that "racial integration" effort...
My friend told the city, to go to hell, that his children are AFRICAN AMERICANS and contributed more to the stated goals of integration by remaining in their current school..
He pointed out the law was written to address AFRICAN AMERICANS, not BLACKS.
His children, white as the wind driven snow were indeed AFRICAN AMERICANS by BIRTH.
His lawyers convinced the city, it would be too costly to pursue their bullshit with his family..
Semper Fi
How did white Americans get classified as Caucasian, anyway? Very few have ancestors from Armenia, Azerbaijan, the former Soviet republic of Georgia, or Chechnya.
I see people evry day on the street, It is easy to tell which blacks have white blood.
I use to spend my summers in a small town where German Catholics, still to this day, go to one Church and Irish Catholics go to another.
Are we sure he's a member of Trinity, and not one of the other UCC's in Chicago?
Yes, that's exactly what it is. The work ethic has nothing to do with race or ethnicity.
I know a white S.A. emigre who got his U.S. citizenship during his junior year in college, promptly got an application for an African-American scholarship, and got full tuition paid his senior year.
I love it, and see my previous.
You made my point- in this country, a person with one white and one black parent is seen as a "black who has white blood". Being seen as biracial is something relatively new.
"We're defined racially even when we're acting like any other of this nation's ethnic groups. Issues knee-jerkily become black and white when in reality they may be African American and Irish American."
***
African-American is not a valid racial classification, and also fails in terms of ethnicity, in my humble opinion. A few months ago I played golf with a friend of mine from church, who brought a friend of his along to play as well. He is white, but is/was from South Africa (or was it Rhodesia?), but has lived here for 25 plus years. He is an African-American in truer form than many who would claim that designation. Of course, he is seldom discriminated against because of his national origin/ethnicity. Actually, he should be designated (if we are going to insist on such designations) as South African-American.
Of course, even black were not in the past nor are they in the present discrminated against based upon African ancestry, but because of the color of their skin. Haitians, as well as other black people from non-African countries, suffer the same degree of discrimination as African-Americans (black ones, that is) do.
Finally, Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans and Polish-Americans are so-designated based upon country of origin and language factors. Africa is not a country, of course. Those African-Americans who wish to describe themselves in national origin terms need to use country, not continent, designations. Of course, they cannot or will not do so because that would dilute their minority status. We can't have Kenyan-Americans, Nigerian-Americans and Rwandan-Americans competing for recognized status in the US.
Of course, none of this should matter, and perhaps we would be a lot farther down the road where this would not matter, if black Americans would begin to separate themselves from racial designations that are becoming (thankfully) less problematic every day, and which designations for many, including Obama, make little or no real sense, given their family history.
Bi-racial is relatively new and probably comes as a result of the great increase in Black-white Unions since the days of segregation were replaced by integration.
I remember well when George Wallace stood in the doors of college and refused entry to blacks. They interviewed this black man and his statement was " We doesnt wants to marry your white girls we just wants to go to school with you."
Well we all see the results. For good or bad the results are many more mulatto kids. Many kids we call bi racial now. Who dont know where they belong nor what to call themselves. Bi racial kids and grandkids are becoming a part of most families now, it wont be long before every family has at least one.
I suppose many of these kids are the result of the mystery one race has for the sexual abilities of the other, some come from white guilt, some from an instinct to mother the supposed downtrodden,some may actually prefer the looks of the other race. No matter,the fact is bi-racial kids are becoming more and more prevalent in todays world.
Sooner or later bi-racial kids will demand that they be recognised as a race themselves and demand to be counted as such. Until then they mostly tend to call themselves black as they seem to mix more readily into black society.
Meanwhile you might like to read this on the way Obama feels.
http://www.amconmag.com/2007/2007_03_12/print/featureprint.html
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