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A mistake, a raid, a couple terrified
Pioneer Press ^ | 03/27/2007 12:28:02 AM CDT | DAVE ORRICK

Posted on 03/27/2007 5:12:46 AM PDT by VRing

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To: JoeSixPack1
Now there's a consolation worthy of any jackboot. They didn't arrest the innocent homeowner, they didn't kill his dog and they didn't shoot him. How hospitable.

Keep in mind that some Freepers grade liberty on a curve.

51 posted on 03/27/2007 6:18:43 AM PDT by Wormwood (Future Former Freeper)
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To: Wormwood

And that curve starts with the badge and ends at the fire chief's dog. The rest of us can take a gun butt to the head and like it.


52 posted on 03/27/2007 6:23:22 AM PDT by JoeSixPack1
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To: jimtorr
The police INSTIGATED this whole near tragedy with their idiotic drug string. They set this savage loose in the neighborhood and let it get completely out of control.

What are they supposed to do? Mitigate crime, not instigate it.

What are they supposed to do? Politely ask everyone to calm down so they can figure out what's going on?

53 posted on 03/27/2007 6:26:21 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Leftism is Mentally Deranged

Big advantage here is the homeowner got a good look at the fake undercover guys so he'll be able to obtain satisfaction someday if he wishes.


54 posted on 03/27/2007 6:26:33 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: pandoraou812

No kidding. I have a friend whose husband was arrested on false charges made out of spite, brought by someone they thought was a friend. There was nothing of this sort of behavior, just a visit by a cop and request to go to the station with him. Very civil and low key but it really threw them for a loop, and she was one tough cookie, not the easily shook up kind. I agree, time to move and let the department pick up the costs.


55 posted on 03/27/2007 6:28:59 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: jimtorr
Nobody was shot, and the Thompsons' were not hauled off to jail.

And they were darned lucky. That isn't how most of these situations work out.

56 posted on 03/27/2007 6:30:07 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: DManA
They set this savage loose in the neighborhood and let it get completely out of control.

Precisely!

57 posted on 03/27/2007 6:31:10 AM PDT by Wormwood (Future Former Freeper)
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To: metmom

I know I wouldn't want to stay in that town. If you sue & they really ought to IMO.... their lives will become hell. People who don't know what really went down will think of them as drug dealers, their children will suffer....its time to move asap IMO.


58 posted on 03/27/2007 6:33:38 AM PDT by pandoraou812 ( zero tolerance to the will of Allah ...... dilligaf? with an efg.....)
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To: Wormwood
A local talk show host in Dallas was appalled at the lack of public outcry against the recent death of a Dallas police officer killed in the line of duty. Police overkill and bad behavior during misdirected SWAT raids, the perennial use of speed traps and other traffic citations that seem focused on revenue enhancement, and even some of the police behavior seen on the "reality-based" cop shows on TV have eroded the goodwill that should exist between the law-abiding majority and law enforcement. Mistrust of police is no longer confined to the black ghetto, as was the case 30-40 years ago.

America is slowly moving in the direction of a Third World type nation, where the citizens distrust the police and the police regard themselves as being above the law.

59 posted on 03/27/2007 6:36:29 AM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: Wallace T.
America is slowly moving in the direction of a Third World type nation, where the citizens distrust the police and the police regard themselves as being above the law.

I agree with everything you said except the word, "slowly".

60 posted on 03/27/2007 6:40:08 AM PDT by Wormwood (Future Former Freeper)
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To: bvw

"A salvo of screamed profanities announces the officers' presence."

So any time I hear 'a salvo of screamed profanities', I should assume that it's the police? < /sarc >


61 posted on 03/27/2007 6:42:41 AM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (Never let it be said that there are things we would never let be said.)
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To: jimtorr
"When they arrive on the scene, the police only know that their informant and Baker are fighting over a wad of cash with an unkown person at a random house picked by Baker."

No. When they arrive on the scene, the unknown person has Baker subdued and up against the wall. The unknown person's wife is on the phone with the 911 dispatch. That's the person the cops threatened to shoot in the f'n head.

"What are they supposed to do? Politely ask everyone to calm down so they can figure out what's going on?

Yes. " Should they ignore the likelyhood that this is a drug buy going bad, and gunfire may break out at any moment?"

No.

"I'm sure that they could have been more polite and they could have refrained from cursing (the article does seem to make a big deal out of the officers cursing).

Yeah, it seems the folks at the paper expected to see a level of professionalism that wasn't displayed in this incident.

" It appears to me from the story that they had probable cause to search the house."

They had zero probable cause. The perps had never entered the house and I'm sure the homeowner didn't act like a bad guy. Neither did his wife, who was on the phone with the 911 dispatch center. That alone would should have been their clue, that the home was not a drug store. Don't think the dispatcher and the cops did not have contact, they did.

" The story posted by bvw reads as if it were written by the Thompsons' attorney, to publicise a lawsuit. "

So? They deserve to be both sued and reprimanded.

"Nobody was shot, and the Thompsons' were not hauled off to jail."

Whoopty do. The Thompson's were assaulted by thugs at gunpoint, and they were not given the coutesy a citizen deserves. Furthermore the cops were led by a team of criminals, and didn't pay attn to that fact, or their own wire. The conversation over the wire didn't included the homeowner, and at the time of the officer's approach, the homeowner had both up against the wall. It's clear the LEOs iinvolved, especially the one in charge are incompetent and failed to recognize the reality of the situation. Instead they insisted on playing hard core. There were no exigent circumatances here, only a complete failure to act as professionals.

62 posted on 03/27/2007 6:54:51 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: Wallace T.
America is slowly moving in the direction of a Third World type nation, where the citizens distrust the police and the police regard themselves as being above the law.

My woman is 30, white, professional. Never even got a ticket... she actively fears and dislikes the police. and we even have friends that are police.

Why is this? When I was growing up in Philly, we did not see the police that often but when we did we would wave and if they were stopped, we would talk with them.

It seems that it began to change in the late 80's/early 90's... police became sneaky. No longer were police visible in off colored patrol cars. Look at what we have now, sneaky unmarked cars and patrol cars that do not look like patrol cars.

1984 was off by a decade

63 posted on 03/27/2007 6:56:27 AM PDT by NativeSon (off the Rez without a pass...)
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To: NativeSon
I think it was about 1984 when I came across a USPS letter carrier who'd been rear-ended by a careless driver. He had crawled into someone's lawn.

No one had cellphones in those days and no one was home, so I left someone else to watch after the man while I went in search of a payphone or a copcar.

I found TWO of them swapping clues in a nearby shopping center. I approached with my hands up and asked for assistance down the street with the letter carrier.

You'd thought I'd just interrupted the most important meeting in the world. It was all "F word" this and "Wadda' you want", and "We weren't called".

Went and found another cop, called in and complained about the two I'd met at the parking lot earlier.

Haven't trusted any of them since ~ best to approach with caution as if they were wild animals near rut, and be prepared to complain later when it's safer.

So far they haven't let me down.

64 posted on 03/27/2007 8:47:20 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

I had guessed Chicago PD, but I see you are in Indiana.

That is sad.


65 posted on 03/27/2007 8:54:37 AM PDT by Larry Lucido (Hurry back Mr. Brightside)
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To: muawiyah
That is sad.

I mean, you're experience was sad, not that you're in Indiana. Indiana is a fine place. :-)

66 posted on 03/27/2007 8:55:45 AM PDT by Larry Lucido (Hurry back Mr. Brightside)
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To: KoRn; Abram; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Alexander Rubin; Allosaurs_r_us; amchugh; Americanwolf; ...
Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.
67 posted on 03/27/2007 9:11:26 AM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: Fierce Allegiance
Thanks for the tip. Some sites, that's not the case.

Interesting responses to the thread, wouldn't you say?

68 posted on 03/27/2007 9:16:57 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: RSmithOpt
Interesting responses to the thread, wouldn't you say?

Fairly normal for an invasion of privacy/trampling of rights thread I'd say.

69 posted on 03/27/2007 9:20:34 AM PDT by Fierce Allegiance (There are 2 types of Rudy fans - the uninformed or anti-conservative TROLLS who do not belong on FR)
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To: VRing
Where are the bootlickers to tell me that the police are the guardians of our liberties?

They'll be here. They always are. Anything is o.k. as long it is done in the name of the WoD or WoT. 

70 posted on 03/27/2007 9:28:19 AM PDT by zeugma (MS Vista has detected your mouse has moved, Cancel or Allow?)
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To: RSmithOpt
The socialist agenda of many in all levels of government who slowly and surely remove almost all rights to the pursuit of life liberty and justice for all Americans.

Oh please, this has nothing to do with the "socialist agenda" but the product of social conservatives - especially the 'law and order" ones and the drug warriors.

We can thank Scalia and Rhenquist for this - not Breyer and Ginsburg.

71 posted on 03/27/2007 9:38:27 AM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: JoeSixPack1
Now there's a consolation worthy of any jackboot. They didn't arrest the innocent homeowner, they didn't kill his dog and they didn't shoot him. How hospitable.

Exactly! SOP for these situations emphasizes both an arrest and a dead pet (shooting of a person is optional). These jbt's must be slipping.
72 posted on 03/27/2007 9:44:09 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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To: muawiyah
Haven't trusted any of them since ~ best to approach with caution as if they were wild animals near rut

Very wise words. Once upon a time everyone considered the police their friends - now people know to avoid the cops at all cost unless it is the absolute last resort.

73 posted on 03/27/2007 9:45:30 AM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: VRing

Lucky for these honorable defenders of liberty sworn to protect and serve that there wasn't an 80 year old lady with a revolver behind the door or they'd be ventilated like thier esteemed colleagues in Atlanta, GA!


74 posted on 03/27/2007 9:46:52 AM PDT by TheKidster (you can only trust government to grow, consolidate power and infringe upon your liberties.)
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To: Al Gator

When will we pass a law that allows us to summarily hang these jack booted thugs from the nearest tree?


As soon as people put away thier programmed emotional response to the idea of decriminalizing and erasing the strict controls on recreational drugs such as Marijuanna.


75 posted on 03/27/2007 9:50:04 AM PDT by TheKidster (you can only trust government to grow, consolidate power and infringe upon your liberties.)
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To: pandoraou812
Least anyone not believe your post, point to the kid that sued in Juneau ('Bong hits' kid)

Was harassed so bad by cops, they not only left town, they moved to China.
76 posted on 03/27/2007 9:51:12 AM PDT by ASOC (Yeah, well, maybe - but can you *prove* it?)
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To: VRing

Yet another reason to end the failed war on some drugs.


77 posted on 03/27/2007 9:51:15 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: metmom

This get the drug dealers at all costs cr@p has got to stop. It's not worth what it's doing to innocent citizens.

More people have died from botched drug raids in the last 2 years then have died from a marijuanna overdose in the last 40 years. Think about that!


78 posted on 03/27/2007 9:53:12 AM PDT by TheKidster (you can only trust government to grow, consolidate power and infringe upon your liberties.)
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To: RSmithOpt

I just wish the cops and the government would get a s equally excited about detaining and deporting illegals...especially those that have already been deported and continue to commit other crimes.

So do the two border guards serving time in prison for shooting an illegal alien drug smuggler! He got immunity and a free ticket to smuggle more dope, they got prison.


79 posted on 03/27/2007 9:56:10 AM PDT by TheKidster (you can only trust government to grow, consolidate power and infringe upon your liberties.)
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To: jimtorr

It appears to me from the story that they had probable cause to search the house.

Are you crazy!!?? They didn't know anything about the house, by your logic the police should search every house they don't know is being investigated for drug activity!

If anyone without a badge did what these thugs did that person would be in prison for kidnapping, assault with a deadly weapon, breaking and entering, terroristic threats, and on and on.
No what these "LEO's" did was extremely and clearly criminal.


80 posted on 03/27/2007 10:00:36 AM PDT by TheKidster (you can only trust government to grow, consolidate power and infringe upon your liberties.)
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To: Larry Lucido
Larry, that was in Northern Virginia ~ in Fairfax County ~ where there's a very low murder rate.

They regularly sack cops who are snotty though, so my complaint wasn't without value.

81 posted on 03/27/2007 10:02:49 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Aha. Good to hear that (though I still picture a couple Chicago cops saying exactly what you heard).


82 posted on 03/27/2007 10:06:54 AM PDT by Larry Lucido (Hurry back Mr. Brightside)
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To: TheKidster
That's just the tip of the iceberg as to the lengths some nuts in governments will go to attempt to maintain power or at least the lengths the government will go to to feed its delusions.

The border guards and our military personell are constantly screwed by their own government!!

83 posted on 03/27/2007 10:08:26 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: JeffAtlanta

Oh please, this has nothing to do with the "socialist agenda" but the product of social conservatives - especially the 'law and order" ones and the drug warriors.

You're not giving credit where credit is due. Plenty of liberals are also drug warriors. When was the last time you heard a democrat speak out against the abuses of power and infringement of civil liberties occurring more and more often in the name of the WOD? Seriously, I've been listening but the silence is deafening. They just tell us "it's for the children" while the right tell us it's for a morally upright society.


84 posted on 03/27/2007 10:10:04 AM PDT by TheKidster (you can only trust government to grow, consolidate power and infringe upon your liberties.)
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To: Larry Lucido
So can I. Big problem in Northern Virginia are the hot shot cops from Boston, New York and Chicago who come there thinking the Rolling Rock beer ads are correct ~ "land of easy living" ~ and they can keep their old habits, and attitudes, and make more money for less risk.

Big surprise for them ~ deal is they have to learn to be polite, take equal or worse risks driving the Jamaican Posses back across the river, and put up with Congressional hijinks.

The ones who can't learn end up working for Prince George's County (in Maryland).

85 posted on 03/27/2007 10:10:39 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: TheKidster

How about we simply "privatize" drug use ~ you do what you want, we do what we want. Sound OK, or do you think you should get police protection?


86 posted on 03/27/2007 10:13:22 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Rapscallion

"May I inquire as to why you posted it all?"

Because I can. Is it really too difficult to click the link?


87 posted on 03/27/2007 10:16:15 AM PDT by VRing (Happiness is a perfect sling bruise.)
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To: metmom
And the wife is right; if you sue the cops, who are you going to call next time you need help?

Why would anyone in their right mind ever call the police for anything?
88 posted on 03/27/2007 10:16:51 AM PDT by Filo (Darwin was right!)
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To: RSmithOpt

yes, they are being used as pawns, even these jack booted thugs in the article are victims in a large way because of the policies pushed down the chain of command. In the end, like everything else it's all about the dollars.

Border = cheap, almost slave labor from Mex and South America.

WOD = confiscation of money, cars, homes, anything they want to take under suspicion of drug activity. Like Mexico, many of our cops work on commission now. Seize $5000 and put $1,000 in the evidence locker to be used later for the cheif's new cruiser or the newest fully automatic toys for the drug warrriors, we citizens are prohibited from owning (unless you have $20K or so to go through the paperwork and applications for a lisence.)


89 posted on 03/27/2007 10:17:59 AM PDT by TheKidster (you can only trust government to grow, consolidate power and infringe upon your liberties.)
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To: muawiyah
you do what you want, we do what we want.

Who exactly is "we"?

90 posted on 03/27/2007 10:19:22 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: TheKidster
When was the last time you heard a democrat speak out against the abuses of power and infringement of civil liberties occurring more and more often in the name of the WOD? Seriously, I've been listening but the silence is deafening.

Liberals are far more likely to be on the right side of this issue than social conservatives. Social conservatives gave us the ramped up War on Drugs and of any political group, social conservatives are most hostile toward civil liberties. The social conservatives even make war against the 2nd amendment by giving their undying support to no-knock warrants and the use of plain clothes officers.

I have read countless times here on FR by social conservatives that if a person has nothing to hide then they have nothing to fear.

91 posted on 03/27/2007 10:20:50 AM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: tacticalogic
People who don't believe hard narctoics should be part of our culture.

You want total liberty, I'm proposing that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander as well.

Just privatize these issues ~ get them out of the government's hands.

92 posted on 03/27/2007 10:25:24 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
People who don't believe hard narctoics should be part of our culture.

Given the post you replied to only made reference to marijuana, can I assume that you consider that "hard narcotics"?

93 posted on 03/27/2007 10:29:30 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: RSmithOpt
< /B>< /I> Turning off html tags...hopefully.

That has not been necessary for several years.

94 posted on 03/27/2007 10:31:55 AM PDT by jmc813 (The 2nd Amendment is NOT a "social conservative" issue.)
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To: JeffAtlanta

To some extent, yes social conservatives can at times be seduced into the mistaken positon of legislating morality, but I would still contend that liberals (actually fascists, socialists and communists) are far more of a threat to our liberty than social conservatives. For perspective look at the political spectrum; on the right is anarchists, libertarians, free marketers and on the left you have socialists, fascists and communists and totalitarians. The liberals in the US at best sit in the socialist camp but many are even futher left firmly in the communist camp.

Social conservatives are much more likely to oppose government growth and expansion except for a few areas like abortion on demand, drug laws (some definitely not all), borders, gay rights. Most though would rather leave you alone as long as you don't push these things on them (except abortion, that seems to be a line in the sand for most) where as liberals will force thier views on the majority, via income redistribution, indoctrination in government run schools, political correctness. To them the war on Drugs is a good thing because it helps consolidate and expand govt. power over the idividual.

I think that you are confusing Libertarians with Liberals.


95 posted on 03/27/2007 10:32:12 AM PDT by TheKidster (you can only trust government to grow, consolidate power and infringe upon your liberties.)
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To: tacticalogic
Like to stick to my own definitions, don't you?

Really no need for government to stick its nose into this, right?

96 posted on 03/27/2007 10:32:47 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

How about we simply "privatize" drug use ~ you do what you want, we do what we want. Sound OK, or do you think you should get police protection?

I don't understand your statement and question, would you please clarify?


97 posted on 03/27/2007 10:36:00 AM PDT by TheKidster (you can only trust government to grow, consolidate power and infringe upon your liberties.)
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To: ASOC

My brother who was certainly no saint got beat up back in the 1970's by the cops where he lived. They were wrong for beating him up that time & he sued. They made life unbearable until he moved & he dropped the suit. It was easier for him to drop it as he found the new town knew cops from the old town...


98 posted on 03/27/2007 10:43:32 AM PDT by pandoraou812 ( zero tolerance to the will of Allah ...... dilligaf? with an efg.....)
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To: jimtorr
What are they supposed to do? Politely ask everyone to calm down so they can figure out what's going on? Should they ignore the likelyhood that this is a drug buy going bad, and gunfire may break out at any moment?

that is EXACTLY what they should have done. In 5 minutes everything would have been figured out and the cops could have taken their two stooges off this guys property, after an apology of course.

99 posted on 03/27/2007 10:48:25 AM PDT by fnord (If gun owners, pot smokers, and poker players start a political party, they'd never lose an election)
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To: JeffAtlanta
Liberals are far more likely to be on the right side of this issue than social conservatives. Social conservatives gave us the ramped up War on Drugs and of any political group, social conservatives are most hostile toward civil liberties. The social conservatives even make war against the 2nd amendment by giving their undying support to no-knock warrants and the use of plain clothes officers.

Interesting, isn't it, how the "conservatives" and "liberals", take turns assaulting our rights from different directions, yet none of it ever seems to get rolled back?. 

100 posted on 03/27/2007 10:50:11 AM PDT by zeugma (MS Vista has detected your mouse has moved, Cancel or Allow?)
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