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How the Falklands War was won
The Daily Telegraph ^ | 27/03/2007 | Michael Novak

Posted on 03/27/2007 5:46:57 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

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To: BuffaloJack

"Blair is no Margaret Thatcher".
Maybe not, but I think he is Maggie's equal and just as determined."

Sorry, no comparison. What is worse, the UK simply does not have the ability to wage war any more. Their Army is half the size of our Marine Corp and their navy forces in the theater are 1 frigate and 3 minesweepers.....

The only way they could act would be with specops and with our help.

Remember, they are partly responsible as their rules of engagement mandated surendering those folk when confronted.


101 posted on 03/27/2007 12:10:46 PM PDT by Jim Verdolini
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To: sukhoi-30mki
The Brits tend to have a habit of overstating and over analyzing their military achievements. Too many "scholars" in wool suits with too much time, rewriting history. I much prefer American or German authors of military history. The worst are the Russians, unreadable propaganda.

I very much respect the Tommy's as well trained and professional soldiers. The British foot soldier has little to apologize for.

History however has granted the Brits a lot of plain old good luck.

Take for example,

- The US effected emergency supplies of the latest AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles to the Brit's. The latest US AIM-9 had a true "fire and forget" head on capability. It was the US AIM-9 and -not- the British Sea Harrier which provided local but not strategic air superiority for the British.

- The Argentine Mirage would have dominated the Harriers were it not for the latest AIM-9 and the lack of range of the Mirage as deployed by Argentina. By the same token the British Harriers never could make a real threat against Argentine bases.

- The Argentine pilots were brave almost to a fault. Brimming with prestige and machismo they forced their low level attacks using American A-4 Skyhawks and French Super Entendards against British warships with telling effect. Only the lack of proper bomb fusing saved the British from serious naval disasters. The Argy bombs were fuzed "too long" and penetrated many British ships without exploding. If the Argys had targeted the QE or other troops ships, with proper fuses, the loss of life would have made the Brits reconsider the whole operation.

Given all that I very much would like to see another Margret Thatcher around to challenge tyranny and aggression. Despite the Brits faults during the Falklands, good training and a firm goal found them victory.

The Falklands War was the first real demonstration of "high tech" weaponry since WWII. Alot of time has passed since the Falklands and the capabilities of modern East/West weapon systems has not been demonstrated in a full scale war.

Maybe Iran and the Gulf will be the next demonstration?
102 posted on 03/27/2007 12:18:58 PM PDT by Milwaukee_Guy (Don't hit them between the eyes. Hit them right -in- the eyes!)
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To: mainepatsfan
So know one was buying the Argentinian claim that they were just liberating the islands from European imperialism?

Predictably, the "Daily Worker" American Communist Party crowd were taking that line. I remember arguing with some guy trying to sell the rag on the street over it. But that was mostly reflexive anti-American/anti-Reagan/anti-Thatcher sentiment rather than a seriously thought out position.

103 posted on 03/27/2007 12:33:42 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep
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To: Milwaukee_Guy

Every conflict, battle or war has it's mistakes and luck. I think you will find all those topics written by British writers soon after the War.

To say that history "has granted the Brits a lot of plain old good luck" sounds out of place in your excellent and informative post.

As well as silly, it seems to be quite emotive and grudging. Every victor in sport, business or war gets lucky. This is why the SAS say "Who Dares Wins"!

"... Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way. I learned a deep respect for one of Goethe's couplets:

Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it.
Boldness has genius, power and magic in it! "

-W.H. Murray

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._H._Murray


104 posted on 03/27/2007 1:15:08 PM PDT by Jack_Macca
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To: Jake The Goose

I'd take what people say to a visiting American with a pinch of salt. It's not for nothing the Aussies call us 'whingeing Poms'! Lovely weather at the moment by the way!


105 posted on 03/27/2007 2:31:51 PM PDT by pau1f0rd (Still more majestic shalt thou rise, More dreadful from each foreign stroke.)
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To: VeniVidiVici
That was back before Newsweak became a liberal rag.
106 posted on 03/27/2007 2:32:55 PM PDT by BBell
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To: pau1f0rd

I take everything I say with a pinch of salt.

No offense intended - I hope it wasn't taken.


107 posted on 03/27/2007 3:31:51 PM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: Tommyjo; jim_trent

I think this Jim_Trent is too nutty, he believes everything he reads in the Internet, it doesn't matter who wrote it. Having been around all sort aircrafts, me don't think it's easy to restore a Vulcan B.2 to fight a war that quick.

Tommyjo, do you know how many Vulcan B.2 was in service before start of the Falkland war?


108 posted on 03/27/2007 3:45:38 PM PDT by wannabegeek
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To: jim_trent
If we're talking about the bombing of the runway, the issue was refueling operations. The mission was flown from Ascension Island and required 17 refuelings. The aerial tankers themselves need other tankers to refuel them. There were two aircraft on the mission, with the back-up plane making the run because the primary aircraft had to turn back shortly after takeoff when it couldn't pressurize the cabin.

At the time, the mission was the longest bombing mission in history.

109 posted on 03/27/2007 5:10:11 PM PDT by ArmstedFragg
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To: All

Falklands today.

Nice photo gallery.

http://www.visitorfalklands.com/


110 posted on 03/27/2007 5:16:55 PM PDT by ArmstedFragg
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To: BuffaloJack

"Their intelligence service nearly rivals that of Israel."

What the Israeli intelligence that was so on the ball regarding Hezbollah last year?

I'm sure the British would be thrilled with the comparison.


111 posted on 03/27/2007 6:20:30 PM PDT by Dave Elias
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To: Milwaukee_Guy

Well that's a fault with military historians around the world.About the AIM-9L being decisive,well lets not ignore the Harrier.It had excellent agility & besides,if it wasn't there,the missiles would have been of no use.


112 posted on 03/27/2007 8:11:44 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

What about the GR.7s?
They can carry Sidewinders and ASRAAMs. Moreover, they also can carry Aden gun pods.


113 posted on 03/27/2007 8:20:48 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Maggie was tougher than Tony is!


114 posted on 03/27/2007 8:27:34 PM PDT by Doctor Don
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To: Army Air Corps

They are upgrading the GR.7s to the GR.9 standard.It can carry ASRAAMs,but they don't even have a radar,so no BVR-weapons & they are heavier than the SeaHarriers.They wouldn't stand a chance against most opponents with those weapons.The SeaHarrier FA.2 armed with the Blue Vixen radar & AMRAAM was generally regarded as the best fighter in Europe till about 8 years ago.Those have been retired.


115 posted on 03/27/2007 8:30:29 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Stupid move as it leaves a considerable gap until the F-35 is delivered to the Royal Navy.


116 posted on 03/27/2007 8:35:22 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: jim_trent
I understand that they used something like 8 bombers for each mission of one or two that actually dropped bombs. They would use the others as tankers, carrying no bombs, but carrying as much fuel as possible. They would leave from England and some would refuel the others then turn around and head for home. Only the last one or two would make it all the way.

This couldn't be further from the truth. Where are you getting this info?

117 posted on 03/27/2007 9:45:22 PM PDT by NoCurrentFreeperByThatName (You lie, cheat and steal.)
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To: Army Air Corps

The integration of ASRAAM onto UK Harriers was abandoned. The only air-to-air missile is the Sidewinder.

Although the Aden gun pods are carried they don't actually have any guns in them.

The UK version of the AV-8B doesn't have any cannon fit and can't carry the original 30mm Aden. The plans were for the development of the Aden 25mm cannon. That is what you see sometimes carried on the UK Harriers. No cannons are in them and it acts as aerodynamic aid. Sometimes they are replaced with the strakes. The last UK Harriers to carry cannons was the Sea Harriers. They carried the original 30mm Adens in pods. They are all retired now from active UK service.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/harriergr7.cfm

http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/harriergr9.cfm


118 posted on 03/28/2007 5:51:57 AM PDT by Tommyjo
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To: Always Independent

Thanks for the info. I'm afraid Jim would have been inventing history if he believes that a Vulcan was taken out of the Offutt museum because of the Falklands. The refuelling probes were taken off Vulcans in the U.S. but that is as far as it went.


119 posted on 03/28/2007 6:04:59 AM PDT by Tommyjo
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To: Milwaukee_Guy

All the Sea Harrier Mirage/Dagger encounters that resulted in kills were from the rear-aspect. The Mirage/Daggers were less manoeverable and couldn't turn inside the Sea Harriers.

The Sea Harriers manoeverability was proved time and time against French Mirage in exercises. The work up exercises with the French also proved this. The Sea Harriers had also exercised against F-15s and F-5s in the UK.

The only thing that the Mirage/Dagger had advantage on was their superior speed. They had early Sidewinders and Israeli Shafrirs and Matra 530s. The AIM-9Gs that were already in UK service would have been suffice in those encounters. The AIM-9Ls were already in UK service, but assigned to NATO stocks.


120 posted on 03/28/2007 6:36:36 AM PDT by Tommyjo
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To: Tommyjo

I'd post a pic of it but can't remember how. Any help out there?


121 posted on 03/28/2007 11:12:34 AM PDT by Always Independent
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To: kronos77
The British may be cutting down on their Navy (among other things), but ONE THING that any foreign power (ANY) has to contend with is the British submarine force. Their fast attack subs are ran by some of the most professional people on this planet, and those subs can mess up one's day big time. Iran wouldn't be able to contend with them. The Brits may not have the sheer numbers of the USN, and to be honest the French Navy has long surpassed the Brits. However, pound for pound the British navy (like the Japanese navy) is still one of the best out there, and a British Fast Attack submarine is guaranteed to foul up any foe's day big time.

It would be a serious mistake to underestimate the Brits. While they may not have the depth of resources that the United States Armed Forces have, or for that matter several other countries, the British soldier is still a tough SOB who will simply not stop. Their surface fleet is getting depleted (and while they may be getting some advanced ships, like the PAAMs system, their navy is getting diluted due to funding cuts), but going against the RN means contending with the fact that there might be some British sub trailing you. And that is not a very healthy proposition.

122 posted on 03/28/2007 10:00:23 PM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: Always Independent

You'd probably have to load it onto an on-line photo album and then link it here.


123 posted on 03/29/2007 3:45:22 PM PDT by Tommyjo
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To: wannabegeek

The four squadrons at RAF Waddington had 8 aircraft each. Out of those 32 airframes 10 were chosen to be made fully ready for use in the conflict. The RAF was in the process of retiring the Vulcans by the summer of 1982.


124 posted on 03/29/2007 3:51:30 PM PDT by Tommyjo
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To: Jake The Goose

"I recently spent 2 weeks in the U.K. (sadly) on business.

It was incredible to me just how many of the English people have zero pride
in their own nation - I mean zero."

What parts of the UK did you get to see? Also the UK is made up of 4 nations, being the English, Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish. There is pride in the UK, but little nationalism. This was used during the days of the Empire. Times are now different.

In military terms, the war showed the limits of the British armed forces. In political terms it gave Thatcher another term in office.

Might I point out that as its the 25 year anniversary,a little humility and commemoration might be in order. Brave soldiers from both sides lost lives, gained reputations and made careers. Whatever other agenda's people might have on this thread are insignificant, as its the soldiers from the UK and Argentina that must be honoured before any virtual points scoring.

"It's almost as if they emulate the dark dreary weather they live in every day"

Easy misconception to make is that the UK is dreary and rainy. It has no less, or greater, rainfall than New York State or Massachusetts. Oh and if I may use your meteorogical analogy what does the Massachusetts thunderstorms and blizzards (having spent some time there at Uni) say about the US?


125 posted on 04/02/2007 6:11:18 AM PDT by Rikstir
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To: kronos77

"I sugest that USA bomb london. If you level London, it would destroy islamism in Europe.

Than bomb Paris..."

Just wondering where you are from Mr Kronos? Being a UK'er, I take exception to your suggestion that the US should bomb London. Thats over 12 million people.

Why the name Kronos? If its in reference to the father of Zeus, and son of Uranus, you may want to reconsider. There are strong tones of an Oedipal Complex in his myth don't you know.


126 posted on 04/02/2007 6:21:44 AM PDT by Rikstir
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To: Rikstir

Ahh ok, Serbia. Enough said. While I dont agree, I can see the cause for such hostility.


127 posted on 04/02/2007 6:45:37 AM PDT by Rikstir
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