Posted on 03/31/2007 10:27:45 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
N.Korea Told to Return Captured U.S. Navy Boat
Former Prime Minister Lee Hae-chan asked North Korea to return the USS Pueblo to the U.S. during his visit to Pyongyang early March, a member of his entourage said Thursday. North Korea hijacked the U.S. Navy ship off the coast of Wonsan in January 1968, claiming it had crossed into North Korean waters.
According to the aide, after looking at the Pueblo, which is on display near the Taedong River, the former prime minister told officials of the North’s Korean Council for Reconciliation and Cooperation that the return of the captured ship would be a chance to improve U.S.-North Korean relations. North Korean officials apparently were not wholly averse to the idea and they appeared willing to report it to their seniors, the aide said.
The proposal has resulted in speculation that Lee’s remarks after his return to Seoul that North Korea may take “concrete action” to build trust with the U.S. refer to the return of the vessel. The captured naval ship was moved from Wonsan to the Taedong River area in 1999. Washington has been demanding the return of the ancient ship.
Still this is not a sure thing. They might just as well keep it. It is a valuable propaganda tool for N. Korean regime. The following is the latest picture of USS Pueblo from N. Korean media:
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| High school graduates from Pyongchon District, Pyongyang, attending a pledge rally in front of USS Pueblo on display at Taedong River (From N. Korea's Central TV / Yonhap) |
Ping!
Why ask, just go and get it.
"We should have bombed the Pueblo out of existence decades ago."
We should have supported CDR. Butcher long ago - and prevented this in the first place - now we have the Brits and Iran.
For those of you who do not know - the Pueblo carried the first SATNAV equipment - the stuff you now use to navigate from house to house with - they knew where they were - outside of NKorean waters - same toys our SSBN's used back then to establish a firing base location. Only 12 birds up then.
I know - I used them to position oil rigs and do geodesic survey work after they were partially declassified post Pueblo capture.. Nova and PDP computers and ATT dual channel Sat receivers.
A little respect for the Pueblo please. Let's git her back!
Right on the money. Boucher was made LBJ and McNamara's scape goat. Boucher raised concerns about the ships E.D. capabilities as well. It's darn near impossible to scuttle a U.S. Navy ship. It's even harder when you don't have the means to do so nor destroy classified material in a reasonable time frame.
Although the man IIRC has since passed the Navy owes Boucher a major apology and the history books need to condemn all responsible for ordering that ship there to start with knowing it was a trap.
Two ships within months of each other under attack. One Ships Captain gets rewarded the other a Court Martial. Both situations were likely a direct result of the doings of one Lyndon Baines Johnson.
Ya know ... I was in Nam when this happened - and I went balistic. CDR Butcher died a few years ago - in So. Cal. I don't know why but this one sticks in my craw after all these years.
Holy crap, they still have it, don't they? I guess before we knock the Brits too hard about their sailors in captivity, we'd better recall a few events in our past.
Woah! Where did you come from?
ROGER THAT!
Chia Head should die slowly and painfully. The body of his dad should be thrown out of his class coffin, where it is on display inside his billion-dollar mausoleum.
I still remember the report of him throwing his coffee cup across the deck when he became aware of the NK gunboat bearing down on him.
LOL been here a spell. I remember it. I remember LBJ making a fool of himself every night also by making empty threats. I was 11 at the time.
"I was 11 at the time."
Good head on your shoulders - and then kids have a way of sorting BS out.
LBJ - ahwwww don't get me started
His worse nightmare and then a reality with a virtually undefendable ship. I've read the sites accounts. They did the best they could with what they had to do with as far as prolonging a takeover so papers etc could be burned etc.
" I guess before we knock the Brits too hard about their sailors in captivity, we'd better recall a few events in our past."
No sh*t!
OK - I'm going to rant - the support he had - or lack of it was a carrier group armed with only NUKES on the deck!
Kind of like the Japaneese a/carriers caught with the wrong bomb load during a decisive battle in WWII - Ooops.
How in the hell did the Admiral in charge go for 100% Nuke on deck?
And LBJ took Cmdr Butcher to task? What an @ss.
Ahhhhh - whatever - Those who know - Know!
Thanks for the opportunity to vent - hung up inside for a long time ...
"They did the best they could with what they had to do"
RGR That - I don't know why this single incident touches me so - it grabbed me from the beggining to even now.
In refelection I look to congress and their wimpy attitude. We had better elect some Guys and Gals with some "huevos" or be ready to submit.
Yes it is a symbol, but a much greater one to them than to US.
"Yes it is a symbol, but a much greater one to them than to US."
Maybe to most - but to some of us an indicator of a major screw-up that we should have learned a lesson from - I hope we have. I don't think so given the state of our current political situation now.
As in on the flight deck? Nukes stayed below with a USMC sentry guarding the hatch. In general at least one interceptor sat hooked up on a catapult and a pilot usually at the island if Flight Ops weren't going on. There should have been one loaded conventional with cannon rounds {for the aircrafts onboard guns} as well in the aircraft. The only reason I can think of for a nuke being topside was a GQ drill. {They have to practice sometime. But it doesn't take that long to get a weapon up from the magazine to the flight deck.
How in the hell did the Admiral in charge go for 100% Nuke on deck?
If you mean Commander Carrier Group it's not even his decession as to what weapons are loaded in the magazines. That one comes down from the Pentagon.
And LBJ took Cmdr Butcher to task? What an @ss.
Agreed. He sent that ship into what was determined to be a hostile enviroment and armed the crew with a 50 caliber afterthought and side arms. Not much of a defense against out numbering patrol boats and Migs circling like vultures.
I just can't quite figure out what you mena by only nukes on deck. Not disagreeing just doesn't sound Kosher.
I have some weapons handling experience myself. I was in a nuke capable Army NG unit and I was an ammo hauler. Uncle isn't happy about exposing too much for all the world to see as far as where nukes appear. Every time we moved nukes on the ship it was GQ or modified GQ especially during onload and off loads.
Another possibility as well. Training generally involves a disarmed round. IOW a dummy. It is treated as an armed round during training. That's bout all I can say on that :>}
I do remember some Navy Cold War protocol I was in from 76-80. In general though like I said if they were moving nukes it was likely a GQ drill and not a day to day operational posture.
Airedales and AVORD guys know a lot more about this than me. When we went to GQ I was usually baby sitting the air-conditioning plants below the waterline.
"The body of his dad should be thrown out of his class coffin, where it is on display inside his billion-dollar mausoleum"
Woah! A Billion - any pics avaliable?
That has got to be one hum dinnger.
It will be done - all in time.
I yeild to your experience - which you so eloquently put - I'm just running off of emotion.
You might be thinking about this though. During the LIBERTY attack 7 months earlier than PUEBLO planes were launced and on their way to help Liberty from a carrier but were recalled inflight by Pentagon in a not so polite wording as I understand it. They never made it and were ordered back to the ship. The LIBERTY attack followed by the PUEBLO attack makes me wonder what LBJ had gotten himself into though.
" But it doesn't take that long to get a weapon up from the magazine to the flight deck."
Then why didn't we cover/protect him?
" LIBERTY"
Very painful - we could go on on this - suffice to say that LBJ was a mess and is still to - to this day.
Politics. As a research vessel the Pueblo should not have had a 50 caliber on it. If the conditions warranted such then the mission had done been compromised. North Korea was likely tracking the ship and Washington knew it thus the order for the 50 caliber I think was done in Toyko before they left out headed toward NK.
I have no idea why Pueblo wasn't covered. One possibility was not having any combat ships close by so as to not draw attention. Technically PUEBLO was a non combat research ship in the eyes of the world. LBJ did a stupid act by placing the 50 caliber onboard to start with. A capable E.D. system would have been a much wiser investment.
If it was that much danger the mission should have been aborted or at least the Captain alerted. The Pentagon knew NK was on the war path though but PUEBLO wasn't privy to some of the later developments and deteriorating conditions as I understand it.
When at the pointed tip of the spear, sometimes they are 'it'
Sometimes you are it
If ever I could ever I was able to write a message/book back to all the young people, I think that would be the title of it
They did. Their fight and priority was to destroy as much classified material as possible. The Captain used delay tactics to try and buy more time. Their sole defense was a 50 caliber on a ship that was supposed to be unarmed to start with.
There wasn't much else they could do. They were burning material which was priority number one and busting equipment but only had one incinerator. They were using waste cans for burns as well. If you don't have the means to fight and you have classified material you as quickly as possible destroy the equipment. They had no explosives nothing to work with despite the Captain's request and expressed concerns for such. Scuttling the ship was impossible as the Navy builds ships to resist sinking.
This wasn't a field combat nor a typical Naval attack. Now had it been a carrier coming under attack and in danger of capture or being over ran by the enemy? There would have been a different outcome. 5000 dead squids and a ship on the ocean floor.
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At least they should have sent them out with a ship better equipped to get rid of all the intel gear, and maybe one for easier scuttling if needed.
There were boats and Migs as well. The 50 caliber was placed on-board at Tokyo and was in cold heavy seas covered by a tarp. Boucher wanted the ship rigged for E.D. before deployment and rightfully so. It was ignored or denied. The PUEBLO was a one mission ship. What I'm saying is the ship and the crew trained for that single deployment. The Pentagon wasn't gonna put that much into the ship as that was likely it's one and only deployment.
It was a converted ship what from previous I can't remember off the top of my head. True there was fuel on-board. But DFM {Diesel Fuel Marine} has to have a lot of heat and generally a good draft to burn. Ask any farmer what he starts brush fires with. He gets kerosene. Diesel fuel just doesn't cit it. To make it work in boilers you use force draft blowers to create a torch effect. In engines you use forced air intake and compression creating heat.
I don't fault Boucher nor his crew. Nobody could have won that battle under the given circumstances. I understand the Code Of Conduct to Fight but I understand common sense to say the smash and burns were far more critical. Boucher bought them as much time as he could. I think NK had an idea of what they had otherwise they would have sank it. I kinda suspect Boucher figured as much and used it to his advantage as well. LBJ and McNamara lost that ship themselves. It was a disaster waiting to happen.
A good response would be, **** you very much--KA-f#@c(&+)g-BOOM!!!!!
God help these basturds if we ever get a leader!
Correct. Should have been done, along with the pier and the town attatched to it.
The USS Pueblo is still carried on the rolls as a commissioned ship on active duty.
The North Koreans captured The Pueblo a week before TET.
A flight of A-10 Warthogs with fighter cover could solve the issue in no time at all.
Re #31
OK a billion or so - wow!
Thanks
"The North Koreans captured The Pueblo a week before TET."
Things that make ya' go Hmmmmmmmm
"Sometimes you are it"
My version is "if it's going to be it's up to me"
Point well taken.
It was a small AK type, kind of like the Reluctant in "Mr. Rodgers".
Thanks I couldn't remember the previous service class. I just knew it was a convert.
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