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N.Korea Told to Return Captured U.S. Navy Boat(SK gives NK the PR advice)
Chosun Ilbo ^ | 03/30/07

Posted on 03/31/2007 10:27:45 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster

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To: RunningWolf

"Yes it is a symbol, but a much greater one to them than to US."

Maybe to most - but to some of us an indicator of a major screw-up that we should have learned a lesson from - I hope we have. I don't think so given the state of our current political situation now.


21 posted on 04/01/2007 12:14:33 AM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: Bobibutu
OK - I'm going to rant - the support he had - or lack of it was a carrier group armed with only NUKES on the deck!

As in on the flight deck? Nukes stayed below with a USMC sentry guarding the hatch. In general at least one interceptor sat hooked up on a catapult and a pilot usually at the island if Flight Ops weren't going on. There should have been one loaded conventional with cannon rounds {for the aircrafts onboard guns} as well in the aircraft. The only reason I can think of for a nuke being topside was a GQ drill. {They have to practice sometime. But it doesn't take that long to get a weapon up from the magazine to the flight deck.

How in the hell did the Admiral in charge go for 100% Nuke on deck?

If you mean Commander Carrier Group it's not even his decession as to what weapons are loaded in the magazines. That one comes down from the Pentagon.

And LBJ took Cmdr Butcher to task? What an @ss.

Agreed. He sent that ship into what was determined to be a hostile enviroment and armed the crew with a 50 caliber afterthought and side arms. Not much of a defense against out numbering patrol boats and Migs circling like vultures.

I just can't quite figure out what you mena by only nukes on deck. Not disagreeing just doesn't sound Kosher.

I have some weapons handling experience myself. I was in a nuke capable Army NG unit and I was an ammo hauler. Uncle isn't happy about exposing too much for all the world to see as far as where nukes appear. Every time we moved nukes on the ship it was GQ or modified GQ especially during onload and off loads.

Another possibility as well. Training generally involves a disarmed round. IOW a dummy. It is treated as an armed round during training. That's bout all I can say on that :>}

I do remember some Navy Cold War protocol I was in from 76-80. In general though like I said if they were moving nukes it was likely a GQ drill and not a day to day operational posture.

Airedales and AVORD guys know a lot more about this than me. When we went to GQ I was usually baby sitting the air-conditioning plants below the waterline.

22 posted on 04/01/2007 12:20:40 AM PDT by cva66snipe (Kool Aid! The popular American favorite drink now Made In Mexico. Pro-Open Borders? Drink Up!)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

"The body of his dad should be thrown out of his class coffin, where it is on display inside his billion-dollar mausoleum"

Woah! A Billion - any pics avaliable?

That has got to be one hum dinnger.

It will be done - all in time.


23 posted on 04/01/2007 12:21:55 AM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: cva66snipe

I yeild to your experience - which you so eloquently put - I'm just running off of emotion.


24 posted on 04/01/2007 12:25:41 AM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: Bobibutu
I yeild to your experience - which you so eloquently put - I'm just running off of emotion.

You might be thinking about this though. During the LIBERTY attack 7 months earlier than PUEBLO planes were launced and on their way to help Liberty from a carrier but were recalled inflight by Pentagon in a not so polite wording as I understand it. They never made it and were ordered back to the ship. The LIBERTY attack followed by the PUEBLO attack makes me wonder what LBJ had gotten himself into though.

25 posted on 04/01/2007 12:31:58 AM PDT by cva66snipe (Kool Aid! The popular American favorite drink now Made In Mexico. Pro-Open Borders? Drink Up!)
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To: cva66snipe

" But it doesn't take that long to get a weapon up from the magazine to the flight deck."

Then why didn't we cover/protect him?


26 posted on 04/01/2007 12:32:13 AM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: cva66snipe

" LIBERTY"

Very painful - we could go on on this - suffice to say that LBJ was a mess and is still to - to this day.


27 posted on 04/01/2007 12:39:16 AM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: Bobibutu
Then why didn't we cover/protect him?

Politics. As a research vessel the Pueblo should not have had a 50 caliber on it. If the conditions warranted such then the mission had done been compromised. North Korea was likely tracking the ship and Washington knew it thus the order for the 50 caliber I think was done in Toyko before they left out headed toward NK.

I have no idea why Pueblo wasn't covered. One possibility was not having any combat ships close by so as to not draw attention. Technically PUEBLO was a non combat research ship in the eyes of the world. LBJ did a stupid act by placing the 50 caliber onboard to start with. A capable E.D. system would have been a much wiser investment.

If it was that much danger the mission should have been aborted or at least the Captain alerted. The Pentagon knew NK was on the war path though but PUEBLO wasn't privy to some of the later developments and deteriorating conditions as I understand it.

28 posted on 04/01/2007 12:45:36 AM PDT by cva66snipe (Kool Aid! The popular American favorite drink now Made In Mexico. Pro-Open Borders? Drink Up!)
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To: Bobibutu
Good Point, Yes the boat should have went down with a fight.

When at the pointed tip of the spear, sometimes they are 'it'

Sometimes you are it

If ever I could ever I was able to write a message/book back to all the young people, I think that would be the title of it

29 posted on 04/01/2007 12:48:41 AM PDT by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
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To: RunningWolf
Good Point, Yes the boat should have went down with a fight.

They did. Their fight and priority was to destroy as much classified material as possible. The Captain used delay tactics to try and buy more time. Their sole defense was a 50 caliber on a ship that was supposed to be unarmed to start with.

There wasn't much else they could do. They were burning material which was priority number one and busting equipment but only had one incinerator. They were using waste cans for burns as well. If you don't have the means to fight and you have classified material you as quickly as possible destroy the equipment. They had no explosives nothing to work with despite the Captain's request and expressed concerns for such. Scuttling the ship was impossible as the Navy builds ships to resist sinking.

This wasn't a field combat nor a typical Naval attack. Now had it been a carrier coming under attack and in danger of capture or being over ran by the enemy? There would have been a different outcome. 5000 dead squids and a ship on the ocean floor.

30 posted on 04/01/2007 1:01:57 AM PDT by cva66snipe (Kool Aid! The popular American favorite drink now Made In Mexico. Pro-Open Borders? Drink Up!)
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To: Bobibutu
Re #23




 

31 posted on 04/01/2007 1:13:37 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (kim jong-il, kae jong-il, chia head, pogri, midget sh*tbag)
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To: cva66snipe
Yes I forgot all of that. One 50 cal on the open seas aint sh** against a bigger boat

At least they should have sent them out with a ship better equipped to get rid of all the intel gear, and maybe one for easier scuttling if needed.

32 posted on 04/01/2007 1:14:46 AM PDT by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
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To: RunningWolf
Yes I forgot all of that. One 50 cal on the open seas aint sh** against a bigger boat At least they should have sent them out with a ship better equipped to get rid of all the intel gear, and maybe one for easier scuttling if needed.

There were boats and Migs as well. The 50 caliber was placed on-board at Tokyo and was in cold heavy seas covered by a tarp. Boucher wanted the ship rigged for E.D. before deployment and rightfully so. It was ignored or denied. The PUEBLO was a one mission ship. What I'm saying is the ship and the crew trained for that single deployment. The Pentagon wasn't gonna put that much into the ship as that was likely it's one and only deployment.

It was a converted ship what from previous I can't remember off the top of my head. True there was fuel on-board. But DFM {Diesel Fuel Marine} has to have a lot of heat and generally a good draft to burn. Ask any farmer what he starts brush fires with. He gets kerosene. Diesel fuel just doesn't cit it. To make it work in boilers you use force draft blowers to create a torch effect. In engines you use forced air intake and compression creating heat.

I don't fault Boucher nor his crew. Nobody could have won that battle under the given circumstances. I understand the Code Of Conduct to Fight but I understand common sense to say the smash and burns were far more critical. Boucher bought them as much time as he could. I think NK had an idea of what they had otherwise they would have sank it. I kinda suspect Boucher figured as much and used it to his advantage as well. LBJ and McNamara lost that ship themselves. It was a disaster waiting to happen.

33 posted on 04/01/2007 1:32:21 AM PDT by cva66snipe (Kool Aid! The popular American favorite drink now Made In Mexico. Pro-Open Borders? Drink Up!)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

A good response would be, **** you very much--KA-f#@c(&+)g-BOOM!!!!!

God help these basturds if we ever get a leader!


34 posted on 04/01/2007 5:22:42 AM PDT by gunnyg
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham

Correct. Should have been done, along with the pier and the town attatched to it.


35 posted on 04/01/2007 6:55:21 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (BTUs are my Beat.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

The USS Pueblo is still carried on the rolls as a commissioned ship on active duty.


36 posted on 04/01/2007 6:57:06 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Bobibutu

The North Koreans captured The Pueblo a week before TET.


37 posted on 04/01/2007 8:53:16 AM PDT by Wolverine (A Concerned Citizen)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

A flight of A-10 Warthogs with fighter cover could solve the issue in no time at all.


38 posted on 04/01/2007 9:44:49 AM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord ((I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum! ~Roddy Piper))
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Re #31

OK a billion or so - wow!

Thanks


39 posted on 04/01/2007 11:33:25 AM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: Wolverine

"The North Koreans captured The Pueblo a week before TET."

Things that make ya' go Hmmmmmmmm


40 posted on 04/01/2007 11:38:38 AM PDT by Bobibutu
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