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CA: Proposal: Get health insurance or pay fine (putting teeth in requiring coverage for all?)
LA Times ^ | 4/11/07 | Jordan Rau

Posted on 04/11/2007 9:43:06 AM PDT by NormsRevenge

SACRAMENTO — People who refuse to obtain health insurance could be tracked down by the state or a private contractor, enrolled in a plan and fined until they pay their premiums under one proposal Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's administration is considering as part of his vision for covering all Californians.

The proposal, which administration aides said was one of many the governor was considering, was presented at a meeting Tuesday with representatives from insurers, hospitals, doctors, business groups and consumer advocates.

It drew immediate criticism from critics of the central tenet of Schwarzenegger's healthcare approach, which is to require all Californians to obtain insurance.

Although the governor's office has been emphasizing the efforts it would make to help people find insurance voluntarily — including subsidies to the poor and outreach through schools, state agencies and healthcare providers — the outlines of the enforcement proposal inflamed some of those the administration has been courting for support.

Beth Capell, a lobbyist for the Service Employees International Union's California organization, said the fines might be unfairly levied on people caught without health insurance because of circumstances beyond their control. Those included people in between jobs and those starting employment in companies that did not provide healthcare for the first months of work.

"We're going to punish them if they don't go out and buy health insurance on their own — health insurance that they can't afford at the moment that they are least able to afford it," Capell said.

Other proposals, which Schwarzenegger included in the first draft of his healthcare plan, are to attach the wages of people who don't buy insurance and to increase the amount they owe in state income taxes.

Kim Belshé, secretary of the state Health and Human Services Agency, emphasized that "nothing is set in stone." ...

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: arnoldcare; california; dictatorship; fascist; fine; healthinsurance; marxism; proposal; schwarzenegger; universalhealthcare
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1 posted on 04/11/2007 9:43:09 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge

“People who refuse to obtain health insurance could be tracked down by the state or a private contractor, enrolled in a plan and fined until they pay their premiums under one proposal Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s”

How every Nazi of him.


2 posted on 04/11/2007 9:46:52 AM PDT by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: NormsRevenge

This is what happens when politicians, who support government subsidized health care, finally understand the concept of anti-selection.


3 posted on 04/11/2007 9:47:06 AM PDT by Pete
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To: NormsRevenge

Requiring enrollment yeah that will drive health care costs down...../sarcasm definitely on


4 posted on 04/11/2007 9:47:09 AM PDT by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: NormsRevenge

Some lower middle class folks just can’t afford health insurance.


5 posted on 04/11/2007 9:48:14 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: NormsRevenge

I have friends that live in California. They all tell me that there is a huge problem with illegals not having auto liability insurance, as required by law. Many times an illegal will hit and run to avoid apprehension. Apparently a huge percentage of accidents are caused by illegals. For that reason, it is necessary to carry a high level of uninsured motorist coverage.
I imagine that illegals will do nothing to acquire mandatory health insurance. They will continue to feed off the public dole of our emergency rooms.


6 posted on 04/11/2007 9:48:27 AM PDT by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: NormsRevenge

Funny this story doesn’t mention illegal aliens, who are the primary reason California’s health care systems are in crisis — the true elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring. Are they going to track them all down and fine them until they get insurance? If they can do that, why can’t they track them all down and deport them, saving Californians billions in health care expenditures?


7 posted on 04/11/2007 9:48:35 AM PDT by 3AngelaD
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To: ThisLittleLightofMine

Yep...that’s part of the problem. Before they can require everyone to get health insurance, they need to drive down the cost of insurance and control the law suits. Besides, are they going to require that all Mexicans have insurance before coming into the country?


8 posted on 04/11/2007 9:49:17 AM PDT by RC2
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To: NormsRevenge

If you work for the state you get “free” health care. If you are poor or a illegal you get “free” health care. The private sector which pays taxes and works hard does not get free health care so the state will force them to pay money to subsidize all the free care everyone else gets.

The state is the enemy of the people.


9 posted on 04/11/2007 10:00:14 AM PDT by winodog (We are being set up for bubba and the beast, part two.)
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To: winodog

Can anyone address the Constitutionality of coercing people to enter into a contract against their will?


10 posted on 04/11/2007 10:04:45 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: NormsRevenge

Yep, I’m sure all those illegal aliens that already broke the law when they entered the country and are driving without licenses, insurance etc. are going to really be concerned about paying fines for not buying health insurance...


11 posted on 04/11/2007 10:06:02 AM PDT by apillar
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To: PAR35
Some lower middle class folks just can’t afford health insurance.

If your employer isn't paying for it, demand a raise...

12 posted on 04/11/2007 10:06:15 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: winodog

I wonder if Arine has ever heard of a Recall election before.


13 posted on 04/11/2007 10:07:08 AM PDT by jocko12
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To: PAR35

“Some lower middle class folks just can’t afford health insurance.”

Ain’t that the truth!!!
Our Governor here in Maine wants to do the same thing. If I can’t afford $1200 a month now how am I supposed to be able to when it’s mandatory?

Health care costs and health insurance costs are insane. There’s got to be an answer!?


14 posted on 04/11/2007 10:09:46 AM PDT by MrLee
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To: 3AngelaD
STOP IT! STOP MAKING SENSE!!

FMCDH(BITS)

15 posted on 04/11/2007 10:12:16 AM PDT by nothingnew (I fear for my Republic due to marxist influence in our government. Open eyes/see)
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To: NormsRevenge

What about people who can’t get insurance due to the dreaded “preexisting conditions”?


16 posted on 04/11/2007 10:12:38 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring

Ameriquest will cover you, of course!


17 posted on 04/11/2007 10:16:39 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: massgopguy

I’m very interested in that question as well, albeit with a different matter on my plate..


18 posted on 04/11/2007 10:17:07 AM PDT by Michael Barnes (If Rudy is the GOP's guy, I'm voting for Hillary. Hey, why do anything half ass?)
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To: PAR35

I definitely cannot afford it..., but even if I could I would get turned down because I’m considered “high risk” and wouldn’t qualify for it anyway.

What does someone do in that situation???


19 posted on 04/11/2007 10:18:10 AM PDT by Tucker822
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To: DuncanWaring
What about people who can’t get insurance due to the dreaded “preexisting conditions”?

We'll have to charge them double the regular fine

20 posted on 04/11/2007 10:18:36 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: paul51

Double the regular fine? Doubleplusgood!!


21 posted on 04/11/2007 10:28:48 AM PDT by Domicile of Doom (Hey boy why is there dirt in my hole? I dunno Boss.)
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To: MrLee

The answer is individual responsibility for health. At least 50% of all people in hospitals at a given time are there due to self-inflicted problems: cigarette cancer, obesity, alcohol, illegal drugs, poor food choices, and so on. People expect to get medical care and “co-pay” $20 (for example), while they think nothing of spending $350 for new brakes on the car, or $200 for entertainment. Individuals expect the taxpayers will foot the bill for expensive medical care after they spend a lifetime smoking, drinking alcohol, eating bad food and neve exercising. The other major problem, besides lack of individual responsibility, is too much government involvement in medicine, which drives up prices and slows down innovation.


22 posted on 04/11/2007 10:30:21 AM PDT by pleikumud
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To: NormsRevenge
Will someone tell me again how the Recall helped California? It gave us this governor with totalitarian impulses, his socialist wife and her cronies and, because Arnold is a nominal Republican, absolves our Marxist legislature of responsibility.

I wish the reactionary right in our state would stop being so danged gullible. They are who fell for the Recall hook, line and sinker. They are the same people who fall for the likes of Perot, Keyes, Tancredo, Klayman, and every other fringe con artist who comes along singing a siren song of faux conservatism. Now we are worse off than if we had just let Davis finish his term.

23 posted on 04/11/2007 10:34:47 AM PDT by Wolfstar (When you whip the good guys into rage at the wrong enemy, don't be surprised when the bad guys win.)
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To: edcoil

They think that car insurance is the successful model for health insurance. Aside from the huge overcharging in car insurance for most people, the idea is a joke because health ‘insurance’ is really paying for health care - not health ‘emergencies’ which is what car insurance covers. Car insurance doesn’t pay for oil changes, gas fill ups or new tires. If health ‘insurance’ were actual insurance and not just a service plan, ‘insurance’ could be dealth with affordably.


24 posted on 04/11/2007 10:38:55 AM PDT by bpjam (Never Give Up, Never Surrender (Unless Nancy Pelosi gives you permission))
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To: massgopguy
Can anyone address the Constitutionality of coercing people to enter into a contract against their will?

Good question. This has been going on with auto insurance for a long time.
25 posted on 04/11/2007 10:48:47 AM PDT by mmichaels1970
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To: pleikumud
after they spend a lifetime smoking, drinking alcohol, eating bad food and neve exercising.

Your point is? Live a miserably healthy life and die?

26 posted on 04/11/2007 10:50:47 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: NormsRevenge

Just take me behind the barn and shoot me..........,


27 posted on 04/11/2007 10:51:12 AM PDT by Jeffrey_D. (Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: NormsRevenge
Before I left California I tried to get individual health insurance there. No dice. I tried three of the biggest names and found out that they generally insure groups only. (My doctor and a relative who is a pharmicist said this was typical.)

After moving to Colorado, I was able to get individual insurance with no problem.

28 posted on 04/11/2007 10:51:22 AM PDT by snarkpup ("If you can't run anywhere, become stronger than anyone!" - Lt. Cmdr. Lyar von Ertiana)
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To: pleikumud

Oh yeah and its much better for the nanny state to tell you to get insurance (even if you cant afford it) and tell you how to live and what to eat and put in your body?

No thanks..

Besides, how come years and YEARS of smokers never “drove up the price” of health care before? Not buying that one.


29 posted on 04/11/2007 10:53:31 AM PDT by eXe (Si vis pacem, para bellum)
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To: pleikumud
ummm...even the most fanatically health conscious will eventually get sick if they live long enough. Or they will have accidents. Or have a sudden health crisis due to a previously undiscovered birth defect or genetic disorder. There are thousands of causes for illness and incapacitation, most of which have nothing to do with life style choices.

Not one single person ever born avoided experiencing some kind of health crisis, even if that crisis was something that caused instant death. Any health crisis short of instant death requires medical treatment.

Are you saying that the only people who "deserve" medical treatment are those who live an approved version of a healthy life style? Just goes to show that totalitarian impulses are not exclusively of the Left.

30 posted on 04/11/2007 10:55:04 AM PDT by Wolfstar (When you whip the good guys into rage at the wrong enemy, don't be surprised when the bad guys win.)
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To: Wolfstar
I wish the reactionary right in our state would stop being so danged gullible. They are who fell for the Recall hook, line and sinker.

Really? I voted for McClintock and AGAINST the recall.

31 posted on 04/11/2007 10:57:41 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The fourth estate is the fifth column.)
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To: NormsRevenge
Compulsory - and if you forget to carry proof of insurance as I did - will you be cited for it? The government doesn't trust people to be responsible. It wants to mother them.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

32 posted on 04/11/2007 11:00:47 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Wolfstar

Those with self-inflicted liver disease, self-inflicted lung cancer, self-inflicted diabetes, self-inflicted heart disease, AIDS from gay sex, et cetera, are driving up medical expenses, including my cost of insurance. Obviously, we all die of something eventually, and many could not have prevented the disease they currently have. But millions of people could have prevented their costly disease if they had been more responsible.


33 posted on 04/11/2007 11:02:23 AM PDT by pleikumud
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To: bpjam

Driving is optional. Paying required premiums may force people to do without healthcare because after paying the premiums they won’t be able to pay the copays, deductibles, labs and meds.

Right now, due to Medicare part D, I can’t afford some of the medications I need...the money is going for premiums. None of the programs I could afford covered all my meds.


34 posted on 04/11/2007 11:05:18 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: MrLee

Funny you should mention 1200 bucks a month because that is what I would have to pay if I had insurance due to my “pre-existing” health problems. They have to sell to me but they don’t have to sell to me at a price I can afford. So, I can expect the “health police” to come for me if I can’t buy insurance. This guy is a first class communist. He needs to go back to Austria, I don’t want him here. All the fools who voted for him and didn’t vote for McClintock raise their hands! No? I didn’t think you would admit it and if you do you will make all kinds of excuses for this asshat liberal in R clothing.


35 posted on 04/11/2007 11:09:59 AM PDT by calex59
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To: pleikumud
Higher insurance rates leads to less people and companies purchasing policies (except gov’t) which leads to higher insurance rates and taxes. Which leads to less people who can afford covrage, which leads to social health care which leads to higher taxes and higher insurance rates........
36 posted on 04/11/2007 11:13:28 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: pleikumud
Those with self-inflicted liver disease, self-inflicted lung cancer, self-inflicted diabetes, self-inflicted heart disease, AIDS from gay sex, et cetera, are driving up medical expenses, including my cost of insurance. Obviously, we all die of something eventually, and many could not have prevented the disease they currently have. But millions of people could have prevented their costly disease if they had been more responsible.

You know what? We all could prevent any diseases we have and prevent death by simply not being born. We have no more self inflicted health problems per million then existed 150, or more, years ago.

Also, WTF does your statement have to do with people being forced to buy health insurance? Nothing what so ever. Forcing people to buy auto insurance is unconstitutional as far as I am concerned and forcing them to buy health insurance is a major disaster and entirely dictatorial.

If you really want to know the reason health care cost so much turn your attention to Medicare and Medicaid type insurance. They are direcetly reponsible for the increase in health care. Do a little research and please don't ask me to do it for you. Health costs started to rise dramatically when Medicare was introduced, believe it or not.

37 posted on 04/11/2007 11:17:16 AM PDT by calex59
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To: edcoil
Ca Business’s exit stage left. These folks just don’t get, it but I see a big migration out of the state.
38 posted on 04/11/2007 11:30:34 AM PDT by gakrak ("A wise man's heart is his right hand, But a fool's heart is at his left" Eccl 10:2)
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To: calex59

So, what do people without insurance do, pay in cash, at the door? If a someone runs a light in a car crash and leaves you crippled? Bummer no one has insurance, hope you carry lots of cash, just in case.


39 posted on 04/11/2007 11:31:09 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: winodog
“If you work for the state you get “free” health care.”

Do all state employees in California get free insurance? It isn’t that way in most states. I am a state employee in another state and my state only pays half of the total health insurance premiums for each state employee. For family coverage, my half that I have to pay is $420 per month, and I just got a letter from the insurance company that has contracted with the state telling me my premium is about to go up approximately 50%. The insurance isn’t even that great. There’s no dental coverage or anything like that. Our tiny annual cost of living increases in our salaries don’t even keep up with all the insurance premium increases. It’s getting ridiculous.

40 posted on 04/11/2007 11:38:36 AM PDT by TKDietz (")
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To: Tucker822

Just wait to “be tracked down by the state” and then go quietly to the camp. They come up with the final solution for the problem there.


41 posted on 04/11/2007 12:01:34 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: apillar
Yep, I’m sure all those illegal aliens that already broke the law when they entered the country and are driving without licenses, insurance etc. are going to really be concerned about paying fines for not buying health insurance...

Absolutely, this would be just one more undeclared tax.

42 posted on 04/11/2007 12:07:15 PM PDT by glorgau
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To: Realism
“If your employer isn’t paying for it, demand a raise...”

Employers that don’t provide health insurance, or at least pay for part of it like most employers do, are probably not going to have money or the inclination to give raises either. All you can do is find a better job with better benefits, but of course that’s easier said than done. And of course it would be impossible for everyone in that position to just find better jobs with better benefits because there just aren’t enough good jobs like that for everyone.

Our economy flourishes as well as it does because we have plenty of cheap labor. Health insurance costs are a big part of labor costs, and these costs just keep going up at a rate well above normal inflation. Even if an employer only pays half of the premium, like mine and probably most others, the costs can be staggering. My employer is paying about $420 per month for my family coverage, as am I. It’s getting ready to go up too, a lot. Right now they’re paying over five grand a year for my health insurance, and it’s going to keep increasing at a rate probably two or three times the rate of normal inflation, for thousands of employees. I believe that the national average premium increase for health insurance plans has been in the neighborhood of 10% per annum for many years now. A lot of employers are finding that they cannot afford it anymore. They’re getting rid of insurance or requiring employees to pay a bigger percentage of the premiums. Our city used to provide city employees free health insurance, but now they’ve announced that they are getting ready to start making employees pay part of the premiums. It will amount to a pay cut for city employees (clerks, police, etc.) who already work for peanuts. These people could all look for better jobs. But are there enough better jobs to go around? I don’t think so. Other employers out there are having the same issues with health insurance, and it’s even more a problem for employers with a lot of low earning employees because health insurance is going to be a much bigger part of the total compensation these employees earn than it is for high earners. Big insurance cost increases every year quickly make cheap labor not so cheap. For these businesses to stay competitive their employees are going to have to bear most of these cost increases.

43 posted on 04/11/2007 12:47:38 PM PDT by TKDietz (")
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To: NormsRevenge

Wow, it’s certainly great that all we have to do to insure everyone is make it the law, but why stop there? Require people to live in a nice house, send their kids to college, fund their retirement plans, exercise, eat healthy food, lose weight, or any of a million other lifetyle choices. Choice being what government tells you it is.


44 posted on 04/11/2007 1:03:41 PM PDT by John Jorsett (scam never sleeps)
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To: TKDietz
Our economy flourishes as well as it does because we have plenty of cheap labor.

Getting cheaper every day. If we dumped minimum wage the economy would really soar, for some anyway. The balance created after WW2 has been broken and no one knows how to fix it.

45 posted on 04/11/2007 1:24:16 PM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: PAR35

LOL! I’m not liking the sound of “the final solution.”


46 posted on 04/11/2007 1:38:47 PM PDT by Tucker822
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To: bpjam; Enterprise
Car insurance doesn’t pay for oil changes, gas fill ups or new tires.

Amen. California now has 27 health insurance "mandates". This means that insured who have no need to carry insurance for certain conditions (i.e. elders: pregnancy, etc.) must pay for these coverages for others. Example if applied to car insurance: you drive an old beater with no need for collison coverage, your neighbor buys a new Lexus, so the state make you pay both his and your collision premium.

So the missus and I drive beater Fords because we can't afford both the $15,972 per year Blue Shield premium and new car payments.....
47 posted on 04/11/2007 1:42:58 PM PDT by MelonFarmerJ (Don't blame me, I voted for McClintock)
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To: Carry_Okie

If you voted against the Recall, then you are not among the gullible right-wing reactionaries to whom I referred.


48 posted on 04/11/2007 2:04:08 PM PDT by Wolfstar (When you whip the good guys into rage at the wrong enemy, don't be surprised when the bad guys win.)
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To: calex59

What kind of pre-existing conditions do you have?


49 posted on 04/11/2007 2:30:15 PM PDT by pleikumud
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To: pleikumud

Your sanctimonious, topsy-turvey, cold-blooded way of thinking is a perfect example of what repels average folks about conservatism.


50 posted on 04/11/2007 2:32:01 PM PDT by Wolfstar (When you whip the good guys into rage at the wrong enemy, don't be surprised when the bad guys win.)
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