Posted on 04/13/2007 9:05:55 PM PDT by Valin
There's only one thing to do with the spiked PBS documentary, "Islam vs. Islamist: Voices from the Muslim Center." Air it. If the Public Broadcasting Service won't reconsider, this window on the struggle for the soul of Islam in the West -- controversial and hard-hitting -- will be picked up by some other network. It's inevitable.
We watched "Islam vs. Islamists," and several things stand out. The stories of embattled moderate Muslims in the contemporary United States, Canada, France and Denmark are gripping and too important to relegate to the dustbin.
(snip)
The stories speak for themselves when allowed to, but since the documentary is not yet available publicly, here's a preview. Naser Khader in some respects is the heart of the film's several threads. This Syrian-born Danish lawmaker's life has been threatened for recommending (among other things) that would-be Islamists who want to establish Shariah in Denmark should move to Saudi Arabia.
For simply asking the question, Mr. Khader's life is imperiled. He is filmed travelling with heavy security. (snip)
There's Mohamed Sifaoui. This Paris-based journalist risked his life filming an undercover expose on terrorists and extremists, including the covert filming of terrorists who vow to murder Mr. Khader if he ever reaches high office in Denmark. Mr. Sifaoui himself knows terrorist violence well. The Algerian newspaper he worked for years ago was bombed by militant terrorists moments after he left the building. (Snip)
What distinguishes "Islam vs. Islamists," beyond these stories of the embattled, is its access to and portrayals of critics, including violent ones, and the critics of like-minded moderates elsewhere.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
Good. He's dead.
I’ll Be Glad When You’re Dead) You Rascal You
I’ll be glad when you’re dead, you rascal you
I’ll be glad when you’re dead, you rascal you
You know you done me wrong
You stole my wife and gone
I’ll be glad when you’re dead, you rascal you
I’m gonna kill you just for fun, you rascal you
I’m gonna kill you just for fun, you rascal you
I’m gonna kill you just for fun
The bugs can have you when I’m done
I’ll be glad when you’re dead, you rascal you......
Too bad it wasn’t a bullet. Or a headsman’s axe. Or a remote control bomb.
LOL! Or better yet, all three at once...
No such thingi as a moderate Muslim. They cult of Islam is proof of that. The only good Muslim is one that leaves their cult and has nothing to do with it.
Right! That’s why
1 All those Iraqis soldiers are fighting and dying along side Americas soldiers in Iraq. I guess it’s all part of a giant Islamic PLOT.
2 That’s why the streets of Flint Mi. are running red with blood.
You might try reading the article before you say something silly.
The Left is censoring them.
Good old Public Broadcasting! In order to be fair and honest, they should feature Bridgett Gabriel for an hour. In case you get suckered in by them, log onto: http://americancongressfortruth.org/ and learn the truth about “Muslim moderates”, the entire 2% of Islam.
I would never get suckered in by someone who say “Muslim moderates”, the entire 2% of Islam.
According to the likes of Steven Emerson, Daniel Pipes, Dr. Benard Lewis the number of Wahhabist/Salafist is around 15% of the worlds Muslims. Not 15% of 1.3 billion is a lot of people...but that’s a far cry from the 98% Bridgett Gabriel states.
“No such thingi as a moderate Muslim. They cult of Islam is proof of that. The only good Muslim is one that leaves their cult and has nothing to do with it.”
If the above were true we wouldn’t be spending half a trillion dollars and thousands of American lives to bring democracy to the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan and the Islamic Republic of Iraq. We also wouldn’t be providing foreign aid to Egypt and Jordan alone that equals our aid to Israel. The foreign policy of the US in the Middle East is based on supporting moderate Muslim states as a bulwark against radical Islam.
I am afraid that it is a matter of lives and money spent on a people who do not think as the West thinks. It is true many of them risked their very lives to vote in an election. But how many of them can assimilate Democracy into their way of life, which has been war with eachother for centuries? We are there, and we should finish what we began, if that is possible. But our complete lack of understanding of an entirely different culture is what got us there in the first place.
But how many of them can assimilate Democracy into their way of life, which has been war with eachother for centuries?
I don’t know. Why don’t you ask the Germans or the French, and the English as I recall they spent a couple of years fighting each other.
You might review the Koran before you go further. There can be NO moderate muslims because their Koran WILL NOT ALLOW IT !!!
>I don’t know. Why don’t you ask the Germans or the French, and the English as I recall they spent a couple of years fighting each other (sic).<
You are right. You don’t know. A completely different mindset, you see, between the free world and the world of Islam. There are no compromises with Islam. You either are Muslim or you are dead.
Tell that to Walid Phares, Dr. Tawfik Hamid, Reza Aslan, Shaykh Hisham Muhammad Kabbani, Zalmay Khalizad...etc.
the problem is way to many people buy into the Wahhabi version of Islam being pushed by the likes of Robert Spencer. We need a lot less Robert Spencer and a whole lot more Dr. Benard Lewis.
And 300 years ago it was the mind set that was in Europe, They changed and so will the Islamic world. Islam will change or it will go away. What we are seeing today in the GWOT is a civil war inside Islam and we are now forced to get involved. It been going on (in modern times) since the end of WWI and the downfall of the Ottomans.
Dream on.
It is amazing how people who aren’t muslims think they can go around telling people who are moderate muslims that -’there ain’t no such thing as a moderate muslim’.
Many people born into that religion want to get away from that hard row to hoe. They want to lead a more secular life and get along with us infidel swine.
Those people are just heretics. They should get out of the religion.
They can call themselves Muslims, but in fact if they don't adhere to the fundamentals of the religion as written in the Koran and Hadiths,they are just heretics going through the pick and choose motions of the religion. Like the cafeteria Christians do.
We are very fortunate that so many Muslims are slackers and more interested in worldly gains than in the supernatural. We can use all the usefull idiot Muslims we can find. But still the heretics should abandon the religion.
The moderate Muslims can't debate the Wahabbis/ Salafist in the Mosque because the Moderates don't have the Koran and Hadiths on their side of the argument. The fundamentalist will win the argument every time.
Calling yourself a Muslim won't make you one.
i.e. I am a Christian, and a darn good one. I expectg to die go to heaven ,sit at the right hand of God and live happily ever after. But I believe in one God only. Certainly God is not broken up into 3 divine persons like Father Son and Holy Ghost.That's ridiculous. And I do not believe Jesus was a divine person. But I call myself a Christian, and think Other Christians should adopt my take on the religion. Just like the heretical Muslims want the religion changed to Islam lite. - tom
Turkey became a democracy in 1946.
The world’s largest Muslim nation, Indonesia became a democracy in 1955.
Additionally Bangladesh, Mali, and Senegal are democracies with predominately Muslim populations.
Other countries, such as Malaysia and Nigeria are hold free elections with multiple parties running for office. Most of the world’s 47 Muslim-majority nations conduct elections; some are relatively free and fair, some are not. The Arab part of the Muslim world has the fewest Democracies. The non-Arab part of the Muslim world has more democracies.
There is no universal, one size fits all Islamic religion.
There are somewhere between 1 and 4 million Muslims in the US with more arriving every day via refugee status and political asylum from Sudan, Iraq and other nations.
Well, the ones we have involved ourselves with happen to be the Middle East, or Arab Musims, nez pas?
Oh but they’ve read Robert Rpencer so that makes them experts.
Valin, I will respond to you with this.
I had to work with a Muslim for 2 1/2 years. He would say how he was not a good Muslim because he did not pray 5 times a day. He was not one of the Muslims that is strapping bombs to his chest either. BUT his conversations, dialogue on a daily basis was of loathing for Jews, his hate for the war, how we should have left Saddam in power, and also get this......how one day America would be Muslim and we non Muslims would be in the minority.
So NO imo there are NO Moderate Muslims, I look at not just the suicide bombers but those that say they are Moderate and yet have the same hate speach that their Quran teaches and their Cult of Islam insists on to even be a Muslim.
I stand by what I said earlier.
Arabs for Israel
Arabs and Muslims who Support the State of Israel and the Cause of Peace in the Middle EastHomeWho Are We?
http://www.arabsforisrael.com/whoarewe.html
When it comes to the means fitting the end the Koran says that to lie to an infidel is not only acceptable but required. You can believe anything you want from a Muslim but I for one will not bet my life on it!
“Well, the ones we have involved ourselves with happen to be the Middle East, or Arab Musims, nez pas?”
The Muslim people in Afghanistan are not Arabs. The Muslim people in Pakistan are not Arabs. The billions we spent to help people through Tsunami relief in the largest Muslim nation on earth, Indonesia are not Arabs. The problems we are having with Islamic Republic of Iran is not a problem with Arabs since the Iranians are Persians. Turkey is an ally of ours in NATO, Turks are not Arabs.
Halliburton, our largest defense contractor is moving its corporate headquarters to Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates. The Jordanians are our allies, Jordan is an Arab state. President Bush holds hands with and kisses the cheek of the King of Saudi Arabia and 14 of the 19 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia.
Egypt is second only to Israel in receiving US foreign aid, the Muslim Egyptians are Arabs.
The world is a little more complicated than you think.
“When it comes to the means fitting the end the Koran says that to lie to an infidel is not only acceptable but required”
I can only assume you are talking about Taqiyya
Encyclopedia of the Orient
http://i-cias.com/e.o/taqiyya.htm
Taqiyya
Arabic: ‘at-taqiyya
Other spelling: taqiyah
In the Middle East, but especially Islam, the concealment of belief, as a method of self-protection. Taqiyya is allowed, and performed, when necessary to avoid death or injury to oneself or other Muslims. Taqiyya is mainly considered as a part of Shi’i theology or modern-day Islamism.
Taqiyya may be translated with ‘fear’ and ‘caution’. It is closely related to the term katm or kitman, ‘concealment’. Taqiyya is in many cases linked with regulations of how Muslims should act with non-Muslims.
The rules concerning the true intention of taqiyya are strict, and abusers of taqiyya will be punished by God.
The permission to conceal the faith is believed to be admitted by the Koran:
Koran 16
108 ... unless it be one who is forced and whose heart is quiet in the faith...
Koran 3
27 ... If you hide that which is in your breasts, or if you show it, God knows it...
Some interpret Muhammad to have performed taqiyya, too, when migrating to Yathrib (later Madina) instead of risking his life staying in Mecca. This interpretation may seem doubtful, but has importance with Muslims in order to legitimize taqiyya. It must be stressed that the two Koran verses above seem to allow acts of taqiyya; they even seem to allow it indiscriminately, meaning that it is up to the individual to decide when it is fit to conceal all or parts of his/her faith.
Traditionally, a majority of Sunnis will not accept taqiyya, arguing that it is an expression of lack of faith in God. Yet, there are Sunni theologians who defend the use of taqiyya, stating that the faith in the heart is what counts, not outward expressions, like with the historian and theologian Tabari (8th/9th century).
With several Shi’i groups, like the Twelvers and the Zaydis, taqiyya has been defined as a fundamental tenet of faith. In some cases, taqiyya has been held as a distinguishing factor between them and the Sunni majority. There are many stories of Shi’i heroes breaking the regulations of his religion to achieve his goals. Unnecessary martyrdom is something that a Shi’i should avoid. With the Assassins, a Shi’i orientation, taqiyya has been an important technique. Entering taqiyya should be done with a niya, the intention, in order to clarify the true intention to conceal one’s ideas.
Also, the Ibadis allow the use of taqiyya. Among the Ibadis it is said that “the taqiyya is a cloak for the believer: he who has no religion has no taqiyya.”
All this may be seen in terms of who have been dominating the Muslim world over the centuries and not. For Shi’is taqiyya has been seen as vital for the survival of individuals and sects, while Sunnis most of the time have not had to take such considerations.
With modern day’s immigration to Western societies, it appears that even Sunnis have applied a Shi’i-like use of taqiyya to avoid different problems with their new societies.
Rules as to when taqiyya is permitted and not, has been set down. A Muslim facing corporal punishment or imprisonment may not perform taqiyya to avoid this. A male with family responsibilities may perform taqiyya if his wife(s) and children are in danger.
In recent years, taqiyya has often been used by militant Islamists, who usually are Sunnis. In preparation for terrorist attacks, using taqiyya has been part of covering their tracks. The world saw a very illustrative example of taqiyya with the 911 (September 11, 2005) attack on USA, when the local al-Qaida leaders went to bars and drank alcohol shortly before initiating their suicide attacks.
Facing persecution from Muslims, some religions of the Middle East have accepted to be labelled as belonging to Islam. For more, see Taqiyya religions, which involves about 22 million people.
Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen?
Consider this:
Theologically, no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.
Scripturally, no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).
Geographically, no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.
Socially, no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.
Politically, no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.
Domestically, no, because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).
Religiously, no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)
Intellectually, no, because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.
Philosophically, no, because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co - exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
Spiritually, no, because when we declare “one nation under God,” the Christian’s God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as our heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran’s 99 excellent names.
Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both good Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish...it’s still the truth. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country.
Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen?
I don’t know. why don’t you ask
Sgt. Wasim Khan
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1569784/posts
Cpl. Mohammed N. Rahman
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1451921/posts
Colonel Douglas “Hadji” Burpee
http://www.nysun.com/article/31393
Or the parents and wife of
Staff Sgt. Ayman Taha
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1553478/posts
Sergeant Uday Singh
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1477079/posts
Lance Cpl. Saeed Jafarkhani-Torshizi
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1331476/posts
Lance Corporal Jabron Hashmi
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1660509/posts
They died protecting your sorry ass.
That’s a real huge number considering the total of Muslims in this country. So, believe what you want, it’s your neck. As for my sorry ass, I keep them loaded, sighted in and ready. And, for good measure I avoid population centers where your friends are going to hit next.
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