Posted on 04/16/2007 3:19:27 PM PDT by madprof98
[Rich Lowry]
AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have a question about the former platform in the Republican Party allowed abortion in the case of rape, incest, and life of the mother. I believe in that and I believe that because of the abortion issue in the Republican Party it is dividing this party so badly that we may not be able to elect a Republican president and I hope-I’d like to hear what your thoughts are on that.”
MAYOR GIULIANI: “What my thoughts are on the big question? I can tell you my thoughts on both.”
AUDIENCE MEMBER: “The big question.”
GIULIANI: “On the big question my thoughts are we shouldn’t allow it to do that. Electing a Republican in 2008 is so important to the war on terror, the ability to keep up an economy that’s an economy or growth, or from the point of view of what we believe as Republicans to really set us in the wrong direction. Democrats are entitled to think something different but I think that there will be a major difference in the direction of this country whether we have a Republican or Democrat in 2008 and 2009. On abortion I think we should respect each other. I think that’s what we should do and we should respect the fact that this is a very difficult moral question and a very difficult question and that very good people of equally good conscience could come to different opinions on it. My view of it is I hate abortion. I think abortion is wrong. To someone who I cared about or cared to talk to me about it and wanted my advice, the advice I would give them is not to do it and to have adoption as an option to it. When I was the Mayor adoptions went way up, abortions went down but ultimately I respect that that’s somebody else’s decision and that people of conscience can make that decision either way and you can’t put them in jail for it. (applause) And then I think our party, our party has to get beyond issues like that where we can have people who are very good people who have different views about this, they can all be Republican because our party is going to grow and we’re going to win in 2008 if we’re a party that is characterized for what we are for and not if we’re a party that’s known for what we are against. …” (Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Campaign Event, Des Moines IA, 4/14/07)
One comment from a Rudy critic is especially good:
—Doesn't Giuliani's comment that "our party" needs to "get beyond issues like" abortion sound a LOT like Howard Dean's 2004 call for Southerners to stop focusing on "God, guns and gays?" Sounds like Giuliani and Dean are talking from the same script here. Different words, same message: "Please set aside your silly antiquated morality and religious beliefs and focus on the REAL issues."Maybe Rudy is the "Howard Dean That Could." The Rudybots seem to believe it.
The party is either pro life and liberty or it’s not. If the answer is not, it’s going to be a whole lot smaller. And weaker. And permanently out of power.
I know that you are right. I do not understand how any self-described conservative could disagree.
YIKES. If he keeps this up, he can kiss the nomination away... Are consevatives against something, or are they for something? I, for one, am for life. I am also for the Constitution. Goodness knows what Rudy is for besides himself.
If Rudy is the Republican nominee, Hillary (or whoever the Dems pick) will be President.
Rudy is already dividing the Republican base, and he would divide us even more once he moves left of his current position during the general election cycle.
Will you support Giuliani for president if he wins the GOP nomination?
Me? Support a gun grabbing abortionist?
This is not the leader that our nation needs. We need a leader that will make THE OTHER SIDE compromise.
As he is on abortion, so shall he be on the 2nd amendment and illegal aliens.
NO thanks RUDI. You need an political abortion.
Well then, we are the party for the protection of innocent life. Now what party is known for being against that?
Well, it’s pretty apparent that Rudy wants to take the GOP to the left with him.
ping.
“Des Moines Register”
Was gonna post that myself. copyright problems
That's a good one! - I like that.
I could not under any circumstances vote for Rino Rudy.
ping to #7. Mr Robinson weighs in. (thank you)
Good afternoon,
I only come to FR when I have been doing so much genealogy research that my poor brain needs a break. I do not understand how anyone who calls himself/herself a conservative can support this liberal. When I first started learning more and more about him, I knew I just had to stop supporting him. Yet, the more some people learn about him the more vocal they become in that support. Just my $.02. During these past few weeks, I have accomplished quite a lot. I now have nearly 17,000 names in my FTM and have discovered some fascinating facts about my ancestors!
I, for one, will not support him.
Wrong! No one of sound moral conscience can come to the conclusion that dismembering unborn children and sucking their remains into a sink is a viable, permissable, or protected option. Murder is evil. Those who condone are equally evil.
My view of it is I hate abortion. I think abortion is wrong. To someone who I cared about or cared to talk to me about it and wanted my advice, the advice I would give them is not to do it and to have adoption as an option to it.
This is precisely what every other liberal pro-abortion politician says about abortion.
When I was the Mayor adoptions went way up, abortions went down but ultimately I respect that that’s somebody else’s decision and that people of conscience can make that decision either way and you can’t put them in jail for it. (applause)
Giuliani has yet to provide a description of the specific program or policy during his administration that he believes is responsible for this oft-stated spin. Nationwide, during the time that Giuliani was mayor of NYC, abortion statistics changed. Giuliani is clearly taking credit for something he DID NOT DO. Further, he is condemning millions of Republicans - to include icons like Ronald Reagan - when he denounces their pro-life stance as simply trying to put women in jail for excercising a simple "decision". He is grossly mischaracterizing the pro-life position in a manner that is identical to the most strident pro-abortion Democrats. His statement here disgusts me beyond what I can express in mere words. He has further entrenched himself as a radical liberal or the worst sort with this kind of statement. And the people who applauded what he said should be ashamed of themselves - brainless sheep suckered by Giuliani's well-rehearsed sophistry.
This man is no conservative and he is the epitomy of all that a conservative reviles. If that isn't enough for you, what is?
Someone tell Rudy I’d rather proudly stand against evil than appease it.
The party is pro-life and pro-liberty and has been since its formation under Abraham Lincoln. The platform clearly defines its pro-life position and even calls for passage of the Human Life Amendment which would declare every unborn child to be a human life to be protected by the Constitution just as every other human life. The obvious effect of this would be to ban abortion nationwide. That is the position of the Republican Party.
Giuliani is a pro-abortion liberal - a radical one. His views on abortion are identical to every other liberal politician's views. Giuliani's anti-Republican views are an abomination. He needs to be aborted from his candidacy and the Republican Party. Are party either stands for its principles or it is no longer a party but a fundraising, get-out-the-vote apparatus.
So if we move that far left and win, what's the difference? Conservatives lose in both cases. I, for one, am firmly convinced that a Rudy candidacy dooms us to repeat 2006. We show no moral difference and the Reagan Democrats go home.
Rudy, it isn’t just this ONE issue- well, maybe for some. But its your whole offering of alleged stances that just do not jive with the R behind your name.
I am standing up for my principles instead of buying the R tag on Rudy. And I sleep well at night knowing I have.
If it is not the taking of a human life, why hate it?
If it is the taking of a human life, why permit it in a civilized society?
Unfortnately there are so many people that don’t believe abortion is morally wrong. That is also why there is no political solution to abortion and never will be.
Why are they doing that and are they dancing with something dangerous?
Don’t know about the others you refer to, but based on what he wrote yesterday, I doubt Mark Levin will be supporting a liberal like Rudy for the presidency.
THIS is why the Founding Fathers were willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING for our independence.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
And it was to "secure the Blessings of Liberty" that was won in the Revolution that "WE the People" formed our federal government.
And there is nothing in these documents that remotely suggests that it is acceptable to slaughter the unborn.
***When I was the Mayor adoptions went way up, abortions went down but ultimately I respect that that’s somebody else’s decision and that people of conscience can make that decision either way and you can’t put them in jail for it. (applause)***
There you have it. Rudy’s for abortion.
Rush and Levin are voting for Rudy??
Since when?
I hear you ... but if we can get past the tyrannical Roe v. Wade lunacy, I'm pretty sure my state of Alabama will largely end abortion within our borders. And the same is true of many other states.
We are one or two Supreme Court appointments from overthrowing that tyranny.
Hence the importance of supporting conservatives for the presidency.
Drop dead, Rudy.
True, if Roe gets overturned many states will greatly restrict abortion but there are many that won’t like California and NY. And in this age of easy travel if a woman couldn’t get one in her own state she could always go visit a state that would allow her to have one. Therefore, if a woman really wanted an abortion, she could still get one. That’s why there is no political solution. But Roe does need to be overturned, if for anything, because its terrible constitutional law. I pray we can change millions of hearts and minds.
Agreed, my friend.
Just out of curiosity, Jim Rob. I am a native Californian. I left the state in 1992, and have seen quite a change in the politics of your state in the past few decades. A lot of it started before I left. I lived in Sacramento, so I was in the center of political trends, and even back then it appeared to me that the Republicans' days were numbered.
Now I live in Pennsylvania, and a lot of what I see here parallels what I saw in California a few decades ago. The Philadelphia and Pittsburgh suburbs are growing, the old farm lands on the outskirts of the cities are getting developed, a whole lot of immigrants are moving in (Lancaster, PA is now 30 percent hispanic), and so forth. As these changes occur, Specter is now the only Republican holding statewide office. We lost the legislature and Santorum in 2006, and of course we lost Ridge several years back.
My question is this. Can you name a pro-life Republican who can take this state, or Ohio? Because as far as I can see, no Republican can win the White House without one or the other. The only Republican who outpolls the Dim field in PA is Giuliani. No R, including Giuliani, outpolls the field in Ohio.
If we do nominate a candidate who does not outpoll the opposition, aren't we just repeating Dole 1994? Go ahead and nominate the consensus candidate among Republicans, and hope we can put lipstick on the pig later and fool the swing voters?
I realize FR is a conservative site. But I am wondering whether conservatives are now becoming as powerless on a national level as they are in your state, and what your take on this is? Do you think that Santorum, Talent and Allen lost because they were not conservative enough?
You and Rush Limbaugh are in similar circumstances, from what I can tell. You are both conservatives, but have made the decision to promote the Republican Party (as opposed to, say, Michael Savage). There are a lot of times when your objectives clash with Republican objectives. GWB presented any number of those situations, and Rudy will as well.
Nonetheless, when the Republicans held all the power the most relevant political discussions in the country were going on at FR. Now we are begging for a few bucks for the troops, and hope to get them without having to surrender in the process. I support Giuliani because he is the only vehicle I see who can get us back to where we were, and even that is a long shot. So I am interested on your thoughts on these things, particularly the name of the candidate who can take PA or OH.
He's setting this up to morph the message.
They are articulating the rhetoric to allow for the support when the time comes. Listen and read carefully what they say and the way they say it.
Translation: RINO rooters are trying to get everyone to believe they must compromise conservative values for the sake of staying in power.
RINO ROOTERS OF THE WORLD UNITE, You have nothing to lose but your brains.
Republicans will either endorse conservative values or find the nearest exit doors out of Washington until we can find some politicians who will.
And he still hasn't given conservatives any comfort on Second Amendment issues.
I foresee Rudy's numbers going way down when Republican primary voters hear about all this.
Rudy says he hates abortion, but apparently not enough to be against it. How can one actively support something that they believe is wrong? I’m just not buying Rudy’s claim that he hates abortion.
But ... but ..., the Republicans don't need us. We are unappeasable and determined to run the entire party off a cliff. It's one of those two, anyway, because it can't be both!
Anyway, thanks for weighing in on this thread. It's like a shot in the arm after reading the compromising Rudybots all weekend.
I don’t know but if you go with a gun grabbing, illegal alien pandering, gay rights supporting abortionist liberal like Rudy as your “conservative” standard bearer you’re going to have a whole lot more than OH and PA to worry about.
IF any of them back Rudy because he is the Republican nominee, they won't have to wait for the "Fairness Doctrine" to be passed because their conservative audiences will evaporate.
Exactly, O.O.—if abortion deprives nobody of their rights, why hate it? I don’t know why this isn’t asked more to wishy-washy ‘pubs.
“I don’t know but if you go with a gun grabbing, illegal alien pandering, gay rights supporting abortionist liberal like Rudy as your “conservative” standard bearer you’re going to have a whole lot more than OH and PA to worry about.”
LOL!
Looks like Hillary will be our President.
“I foresee Rudy’s numbers going way down when Republican primary voters hear about all this”
That will indeed happen to Rudy.
Only if the Republican Party is suckered and lied into nominating Giuliani as our candidate. I guess you better get busy and get an actual Republican nominated and not the divisive liberal that will lose to Hillary.
Hillary may not even win the primary, so that is quite a stretch.
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