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Surge in Birth Rates Among Hispanics Creating New U.S. Underclass
Dallas Morning News ^ | Jan.21, '07 | Heather MacDonald

Posted on 04/17/2007 3:41:01 AM PDT by T.L.Sink

...the explosive growth of the U.S. Hispanic population over the next couple of decades does not bode well for American social stability. The dimensions of the Hispanic baby boom are startling. By 2050 the Latin population will have tripled, the Census Bureau projects. It's the fertility surge among unwed Hispanics that should worry policymakers. Hispanic women have the highest unmarried birthrate in the country - over three times that of whites and Asians, and nearly one and a half times that of black women, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Social workers in Southern California... are in despair over the epidemic of single parenting. Not only has illegitimacy become perfectly acceptable, they say, but so has the welfare and social services to cope with it. Dr. Ana Sanchez delivers babies at St. Joseph's Hospital in Orange, California, many of them to Hispanic teenagers. To her dismay, they view having a child at that age as normal. Alot of grandmothers are single as well; they never married, or they had successive relationships. "We're seeing 13-and 14-year old fathers," says Kathleen Collins, vice president of health education. ...the prevalence of single parenting among Hispanics is producing the inevitable slide into the welfare system. Hispanics now dominate the federal Women, Infants, and Children free food program; Hispanic enrollment grew more that 25% from 1996 to 2002, while black enrollment dropped 12% and white enrollment dropped 6.5%. A case manager at a program for pregnant homeless women in Orange observes, "I'll have women in my office on their fifth child, when the others have already been placed in foster care. There's nothing shameful about having multiple children that you can't care for and to be pregnant again, because, then you can blame the system."

(Excerpt) Read more at dallasnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: fence; illegalimigration; invasionusa; singleparents; wall
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Part of the social, economic, and cultural catastrophe brought to us by open borders, not to mention the national security danger in this age of international terrorism. But as America inexorably moves toward Third World status, the special interest business lobbies (U.S. Chamber of Commerce to cite only one)who love low wages with no basic benefits, and the politicians who out-pander each other for the illegal vote, we'll soon have reached the point of no return. Perhaps we're already there.
1 posted on 04/17/2007 3:41:04 AM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: T.L.Sink

“Hispanic women have the highest unmarried birthrate in the country...”

Wonder how many are shelling out babies with illegal immigrant men, who are sending their money home to their wives and kids?
The good old US tax-sheeple are taking care of the illegitimate kids here through food stamps and welfare payments to the shack-ups. When are those intrepid investigative reporters to delve into this social phenomenon?


2 posted on 04/17/2007 3:48:07 AM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: T.L.Sink

More democratic voters; this is a guarantee that California will become even more solidly democrat and Arizona, Florida, New Mexico and even Texas will move in that direction.


3 posted on 04/17/2007 3:49:07 AM PDT by MSF BU
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To: T.L.Sink
While births out of wedlock should not be supported, at least Latinos probably have a relatively low rate of aborting their unborn children (and hence they have a high birthrate).

And on the flip side, proportionally more pregnant singles of European, Asian, and African descent probably abort their unborn children more often.

4 posted on 04/17/2007 3:51:13 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: T.L.Sink

What is especially noteworthy is that illegitimacy rates among this population skyrocket AFTER they come into the US.

Among the population remaining in the home country, illegitimacy is much lower.

The toxic liberal culture in this country and entitlements have combined to destroy the hispanic family within a generation or two of arriving.


5 posted on 04/17/2007 3:53:50 AM PDT by SirJohnBarleycorn
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"Hispanic women have the highest unmarried birthrate in the country..."

< BushMode> "Family values, Rio Grande, blah blah blah" </BushMode>

6 posted on 04/17/2007 3:55:31 AM PDT by whd23
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

I believe Hispanics do abort at a higher rate than whites.

Generally, the more dysfunctional and feckless a group, the more likely they are to have unplanned pregnancies and to abort, no matter what they say they believe. It’s the number of pregnancies that matters.

Mrs VS


7 posted on 04/17/2007 4:03:08 AM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: T.L.Sink
...tick... tick... tick...
8 posted on 04/17/2007 4:07:54 AM PDT by blues_guitarist ( . . . As in the days of Noah!)
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To: SirJohnBarleycorn

For how many years have we been trying to get a handle on the black unwed pregnancy only to import more? Yeah, that makes alot of sense. Go to a middle school where there is alot of hispanics and there is an excellent chance you will find pregnant girls, middle school! You are between 12 and 14 in middle school. My son is a sophmore in HS and there is a girl in his grade with 2 kids. A friend teaches English through her church, 5 of the 6 girls, high schoolers, had kids and the 6th was pregnant. They invited her to a baby shower. Yep, nothing like importing another 20 million welfare recipients and having a generation of children with little chance for a future. Hey, but our lettuce will be cheap, so I guess it all comes out in the wash.


9 posted on 04/17/2007 4:21:40 AM PDT by panthermom (DUNCAN HUNTER 2008)
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To: T.L.Sink
By 2050 the Latin population will have tripled, the Census Bureau projects.

There are days when I'm glad the chances I'll be around for this are slim.

T.L.Sink:

But as America inexorably moves toward Third World status, the special interest business lobbies (U.S. Chamber of Commerce to cite only one)who love low wages with no basic benefits, and the politicians who out-pander each other for the illegal vote, we'll soon have reached the point of no return. Perhaps we're already there.
Excellent prediction. BUMP!
10 posted on 04/17/2007 4:26:55 AM PDT by upchuck (A living, breathing example of the Peter Principle. Oh, forgetful, too :)
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To: T.L.Sink
we'll soon have reached the point of no return. Perhaps we're already there.

I think that we probably are.

11 posted on 04/17/2007 4:31:14 AM PDT by SIDENET (Now selling carbon offsets. Get some today!)
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To: T.L.Sink
Kind of reminds one of the newspaper stories from the last century about the hordes of unwashed Irish cutpurses and scalawags, rutting like beasts and marinating in liquor destroying America.

Now those Irish grandkids are worried that the hordes of unwashed Mexican illegals, rutting like beasts and marinating in liquor are destroying America.

Pathetic.

12 posted on 04/17/2007 4:42:38 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: SIDENET
I think that we probably are.

Unbelievable. An en terprising, optimistic young illegal is more American than you.

13 posted on 04/17/2007 4:43:34 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
How so?

Please explain yourself.

14 posted on 04/17/2007 4:48:11 AM PDT by SIDENET (Now selling carbon offsets. Get some today!)
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To: T.L.Sink

A lot of the cultural thinking is that there is no shame and that the services are free so there is nothing to lose. Free is the key word. Nothing to worry about because they will get free money and free care. I’ve seen it now for all my life. Free money and free services are very important in this culture. Gratis.


15 posted on 04/17/2007 4:52:53 AM PDT by DaGman (`)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
While births out of wedlock should not be supported, at least Latinos probably have a relatively low rate of aborting their unborn children (and hence they have a high birthrate).

And on the flip side, proportionally more pregnant singles of European, Asian, and African descent probably abort their unborn children more often.

---------------------------------------------------------

And your source is.....?

16 posted on 04/17/2007 4:54:57 AM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: wtc911
Did you read probably. It was only a guess, but seems to be a logical one.
17 posted on 04/17/2007 5:04:02 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: MSF BU

“More democratic voters; this is a guarantee that California will become even more solidly democrat and Arizona, Florida, New Mexico and even Texas will move in that direction.”

And Colorado and Illinois and North Carolina....
It’s not limited to the West.

The Country Club Republicans are moving themselves to Whig status with their greed for cheap labor.


18 posted on 04/17/2007 5:07:27 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: SirJohnBarleycorn
What is especially noteworthy is that illegitimacy rates among this population skyrocket AFTER they come into the US.

You think the liberal zero population growth, Paul Erlichman type groups would be aware of this. If these Hispanics stayed in Mexico, their population would grow at a slower rate, yet it explodes when they get to America. This is similar to a wild animal population that flourishes when food is plentiful.

19 posted on 04/17/2007 5:09:26 AM PDT by sportutegrl (This thread is useless without pix.)
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: Jedi Master Pikachu
Did you read probably. It was only a guess, but seems to be a logical one.

-----------------------------------------------

A logical guess based on what? Your intimate knowledge of abortion attitudes among Whites, Blacks, Asians, Latinos? What?

21 posted on 04/17/2007 5:12:27 AM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: wideawake

And from the 1920’s to the 1960’s the US shut down the immigration spigot. So, all those immigrants were able to be assimilated, Raise their economic staturs and we developed a stable national idendity, and prospered.

This WILL NOT happen as long as we allow an unchecked invasion from overseas to continue. THAT’s the big differnce.


22 posted on 04/17/2007 5:15:31 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: wideawake

We didn’t share a border with Ireland, nor is Ireland a hostile foreign country in which its citizens are taught to hate and resent the USA for stealing “their land”. Nor is there as a result an Irish equivalent of Atzlan or La Raza. There is NO COMPARISON to be made by a sane person between the 19th century Irish and the 20th/21st centuries Mexicans.


23 posted on 04/17/2007 5:17:49 AM PDT by Verloona Ti
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To: TonyRo76
So... you're... saying we should just let 'em all in?! Amnesty for everyone?!

No.

Our immigration laws are broken.

I'm saying that we should have millions of immigrants from Mexico, but that we should decide which ones we let in.

The current debate seems to be between advocates of mass deportation and advocates of no deportation.

At least those "unwashed Irish" 100 years ago spoke the English language, and had observed the law getting here in the first place.

Plenty of those Irish spoke little to no English, and there was no law about getting here at that time. You just showed up.

24 posted on 04/17/2007 5:24:51 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Kozak
Arrrrgg. it’s early....

And from the 1920’s to the 1960’s the US shut down the immigration spigot. So, all those immigrants were able to be assimilated, Raise their economic status and we developed a stable national identity, and prospered.

This WILL NOT happen as long as we allow an unchecked invasion from overseas to continue. THAT’s the big difference.

25 posted on 04/17/2007 5:26:37 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: Kozak
And from the 1920’s to the 1960’s the US shut down the immigration spigot.

Uh-huh.

So, all those immigrants were able to be assimilated

So the Irish of the 1847 famine weren't assimilated until 1968 or so?

This WILL NOT happen as long as we allow an unchecked invasion from overseas to continue.

As usual, you guys are clueless as to what actually constitutes an invasion. Ask a Pole what an invasion is.

26 posted on 04/17/2007 5:27:48 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Verloona Ti
We didn’t share a border with Ireland,

Oolong is going for 27 yuan a pound in Beijing right now.

nor is Ireland a hostile foreign country in which its citizens are taught to hate and resent the USA for stealing “their land”.

Mexico is an ally of the United States, a trading partner of the United States and it is to be expected that Mexico has its own viewpoint about the war it instigated with the United States 150 years ago.

Mexicans are not taught to hate America any more than Americans are taught to hate Japan.

Nor is there as a result an Irish equivalent of Atzlan or La Raza.

There is and was an Irish mafia. There are and have been IRA sympathizers and fundraisers here too.

I'm all for expelling terrorist sympathizers and criminals of any ethnicity.

There is NO COMPARISON to be made by a sane person between the 19th century Irish and the 20th/21st centuries Mexicans.

LOL! That's right - anyone who disagrees with you in your sovereign wisdom must be mentally ill, right?

The paranoid reaction to the Irish in the 19th century is identical to the paranoid reaction to the Mexicans in the 21st.

Those of us who are not caught up in the mass hysteria and refuse to share your fixations have our reasons for refusing to participate: Mexico can be a source for millions of young, hardworking, enterprising Christian immigrants, the kind of vital ing=fusion that has kept America young and adventurous.

The current system is broken and needs to be fixed, but at the end of the day America should have at least 10 million new Mexican citizens. It's good for America.

27 posted on 04/17/2007 5:37:25 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: T.L.Sink

Being part of an “UNDERCLASS” is purely voluntary...........


28 posted on 04/17/2007 5:41:24 AM PDT by Red Badger (If it's consensus, it's not science. If it's science, there's no need for consensus......)
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To: MSF BU

And with Arnold offering all the children “free” medical care it won’t be long before his Caleefornia is Mexifornia. That’s a perfect example of the sort of politician who’s completely oblivious to what’s happening to this country.


29 posted on 04/17/2007 6:01:07 AM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: wideawake

No. The Italians and Russians and etc from the “Great Wave”.
It generally takes 2 generations to assimilate. That’s when you DON’T have policies intended to intentionally PREVENT immigration. To get a clue read Victor David hansen’s “Mexifornia”.

Invasions come in many flavors not just Panzer armies. Maybe if you knew a little history. Like say the movement of the Goths into the Roman empire. Ask a Native American about “immigration policy” and invasions.


30 posted on 04/17/2007 6:13:55 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: wideawake

I don’t think we can compare the Irish to the Hispanics. They, like most immigrants then, were part of a common European culture and saw America as a land of opportunity. They wanted to become assimilated and work hard to be productive and successful. And they did. All newly arrived immigrant groups had some initial difficulties. It may have been language or various other cultural things. But they all wanted to adapt to American ways. They didn’t form a cultural underclass and expect our society to change for them. Chinese and other Asians are good examples. Few immigrants faced greater difficulties than they. But they succeeded extremely well in becoming an asset to our nation.


31 posted on 04/17/2007 6:22:26 AM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: Kozak
Damn .

No. The Italians and Russians and etc from the “Great Wave”.
It generally takes 2 generations to assimilate. That’s when you DON’T have policies intended to intentionally PREVENT assimilation. To get a clue read Victor David hansen’s “Mexifornia”.

Invasions come in many flavors not just Panzer armies. Maybe if you knew a little history. Like say the movement of the Goths into the Roman empire. Ask a Native American about “immigration policy” and invasions.

32 posted on 04/17/2007 6:22:31 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: MSF BU

Forget about the political consequences. It means that the US will slide into Third World status. Since 1970, the population of the US has increased by 100 million, since 1990, 53 million, and since 2000, 20 million. According to the Census Bureau we will have a population of 364 million by 2030 and over 400 million by 2050. By 2050, 1/4 of the US will be Hispanic. 3/4 of the population increase can be attributed to immingration, legal and illegal.


34 posted on 04/17/2007 6:28:56 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Kozak
Maybe if you knew a little history.

Luckily for me, I have infinitely greater knowledge of history than you have of manners.

Like say the movement of the Goths into the Roman empire.

Like say the movement of the Goths into the Roman empire.

Unlike the mass immigration of Mexicans into the US, the Goths were actual invaders who raised armies and captured territory, while taking prisoners of war and sacrificing them to their gods.

I don't remember any Mexican army seizing Los Angeles, burning down all the major buildings, sacrificing the city council to Quetzacoatl and using the Hollywood Bowl as a holding pen/venue to auction off enslaved Anglos.

Nor do I remember from the Actibus Getarum the Goths entering Byzantium or Rome one by one or family by family and hiring themselves out to hang sheetrock or trim hedges for the Romans.

Ask a Native American about “immigration policy” and invasions.

Again you compare an actual military invasion with immigration.

You simply emphasize how unclear you are on the concept.

35 posted on 04/17/2007 6:34:53 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Shuck04
This was a pretty ignorant reply.

How so, oh deeply enlightened one?

The only way this can be real logic is if you intentionally dumb yourself down.

Translation: Shuck04 lacks the mental resources to address the argument himself, so he pretends that it's other people who are stupid.

Thanks for playing, S04!

36 posted on 04/17/2007 6:36:34 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
Kind of reminds one of the newspaper stories from the last century about the hordes of unwashed Irish cutpurses and scalawags, rutting like beasts and marinating in liquor destroying America. Now those Irish grandkids are worried that the hordes of unwashed Mexican illegals, rutting like beasts and marinating in liquor are destroying America. Pathetic.

You left off the sarcasm tag. What is happening today is unprecedented in our history. Legal immigration alone in the 1990s likely matched or exceeded the previous historical peak decade of 1901-1910, when 8.8 million legal immigrants were admitted. Adding the settlement of illegal aliens makes the 1990s without doubt the period of greatest immigration in America's history.

During the 1990s, an average of more than 1.3 million immigrants — legal and illegal — settled in the United States each year. Between January 2000 and March 2002, 3.3 million additional immigrants have arrived. In less than 50 years, the U.S. Census Bureau projects that immigration will cause the population of the United States to increase from its present 301 million to more than 400 million.

The foreign-born population of the United States is currently 33.1 million, equal to 11.5 percent of the U.S. population. Of this total, the Census Bureau estimates 8-9 million are illegal immigrants. Other estimates indicate a considerably higher number of illegal immigrants.

Approximately 1 million people receive permanent residency annually. In addition, the Census Bureau estimates a net increase of 500,000 illegal immigrants annually.

The present level of immigration is significantly higher than the average historical level of immigration. This flow may be attributed, in part, to the extraordinary broadening of U.S. immigration policy in 1965. Since 1970, more than 30 million legal and illegal immigrants have settled in the U.S., representing more than one-third of all people ever to come to America's shores.

At the peak of the Great Wave of immigration in 1910, the number of immigrants living in the U.S. was less than half of what it is today, though the percentage of the population was slightly higher. The annual arrival of 1.5 million legal and illegal immigrants, coupled with 750,000 annual births to immigrant women, is the determinate factor— or three-fourths— of all U.S. population growth.

37 posted on 04/17/2007 6:38:27 AM PDT by kabar
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To: wideawake
Plenty of those Irish spoke little to no English, and there was no law about getting here at that time. You just showed up.

Surely, you are joking. As a descendent of Irish immigrants, you are incorrect.

The Hispanic Challenge By Samuel P. Huntington

38 posted on 04/17/2007 6:42:09 AM PDT by kabar
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To: wideawake
The current debate seems to be between advocates of mass deportation and advocates of no deportation.

No, that's the way the comprehensive immigration reform [read amnesty] folks like to frame the debate. The first thing that needs to be done is to secure our borders, including visa overstays. We also must enforce our existing immigration laws. There is no urgency in determing what should be done with the 12 to 20 million illegals already here. We need more data on them in order to make good public policy.

In no scenario, should they be rewarded with US citizenship after breaking our laws.

39 posted on 04/17/2007 6:47:05 AM PDT by kabar
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To: wideawake

No the Goths were actually trying to enter the Empire in search of land and to live under the protection of the Empire as they were being presurred by other groups migrating from the East. They petioned the emperor Valens who allowed them to cross and enter the borders of the empire, who agreed to allow them entry. Later, Valens changed his mind, refused to give them the promised land and food, and decided to force them out. THEN the Goths revolted and began to war on the Romans.

As to my manners. YOU started with the snotty comments. If you can’t take it don’t dish it.


40 posted on 04/17/2007 6:49:27 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: wideawake
As usual, you guys are clueless as to what actually constitutes an invasion. Ask a Pole what an invasion is.

12 to 20 million illegal aliens constitute an invasion. It is far bigger than the German Army and it has been here longer than the Germans were in Poland. At least the Poles fought back. Today, we still have 500,000 to 1 million illegal aliens entering our country annually.

41 posted on 04/17/2007 6:49:56 AM PDT by kabar
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To: T.L.Sink
They, like most immigrants then, were part of a common European culture and saw America as a land of opportunity.

(1) Most Americans saw the Catholic Irish not as sharers of a common European culture, but as alien slaves of Popish superstition.

(2) Mexico, like America, is a European colony. Mexico, like America, is a Christian culture.

(3) Mexicans do see America as a land of opportunity.

They wanted to become assimilated and work hard to be productive and successful.

The Irish mainly wanted to eat. They never put out assimilation as an overarching goal: they built their own churches, their own schools, their own fraternal organizations, put together Fenian societies in the hope that prosperous American Irish would one day be able to launch an invasion of Ireland in order to break British rule, etc. "Assimilation" was not a articulatable goal for the Irish wave of immigrants. Eating regularly was.

It may have been language or various other cultural things. But they all wanted to adapt to American ways.

Incorrect. many had no desire to "adapt" to American ways, and refused to. To this day, Irish people in the US are obsessed with their Irishness to a bizarre degree. My mother's parents emigrated from the west of Ireland. I have cousins who support the IRA (even after 9/11!), who hate the English, who will only describe themselves as "Irish-Americans", not Americans, etc. St. Patrick's Day parades for them are tribal gatherings where they get drunk and extremely angry about perceived injustices to the Irish - even though they are all the sons and daughters of successful financial and legal professionals. When I tell them I'm not Irish, I'm an American, they get very upset.

They didn’t form a cultural underclass and expect our society to change for them.

They certainly formed an underclass and society did change for them - in good ways and in bad. The machine politics that cripple so many of our cities are in large part a legacy of the effect irish immigrants had on American culture and society.

Chinese and other Asians are good examples. Few immigrants faced greater difficulties than they. But they succeeded extremely well in becoming an asset to our nation.

And Mexicans will prove to be an incalculable shot in the arm as well.

42 posted on 04/17/2007 6:52:50 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
“Ask a Native American about “immigration policy” and invasions.

Again you compare an actual military invasion with immigration.

You simply emphasize how unclear you are on the concept.”

You are a laugh. That is a distinction without a difference. Ask an Indian if thinks thats an important point.

43 posted on 04/17/2007 6:55:45 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: wideawake
Unbelievable. An enterprising, optimistic young illegal is more American than you.

I'm still waiting for a response from you. If you're going to make a statement such as the one above, you should at least be willing to defend it.

44 posted on 04/17/2007 6:59:21 AM PDT by SIDENET (Now selling carbon offsets. Get some today!)
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To: kabar
12 to 20 million illegal aliens constitute an invasion.

Numbers do not define invasions.

An invasion is a coordinated military action undertaken for the purpose of seizing and holding territory for a foreign power.

Describing the mass immigration of Mexicans into the US as an "invasion" is pure sensationalism that is meant to inflame passions, and not very nice ones at that.

The fact is that our immigration laws are broken and our border enforcement is broken.

Our immigration laws are predicated on stupid concepts like "family reunification" - not rationality.

The most rational thing for the US to do is to police its border effectively while welcoming millions of valuable Mexican immigrants.

The current "system" (for lack of a better word) is useless, and almost every propsed solution - from blanket amnesty to mass deportation - is emotionally-based futility.

45 posted on 04/17/2007 6:59:46 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Kozak
That is a distinction without a difference.

If you do not realize that there is a difference between (1) a Mexican immigrant renting a room in a basement on your block and hanging out on your streetcorner looking for subcontracting work on the one hand, and (2) a Mexican soldier smashing down every door on your block, publicly executing some of your neighbors in front of your house and marching you and your neighbors off to labor camps on the other hand - then you lack the ability to draw any meaningful distinctions whatsoever.

As an aside, if you are so upset about the oh-so-horrible fate of "Native Americans", why don't you (1) Move back to your ancestors' native land if you are not a "Native American" or (2) Reconquer your land from the evil white man if you are?

46 posted on 04/17/2007 7:05:56 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

I’m willing to argue that Irish immigration has not necessarily been an overall positive for the US. To this day, some Irish have a simmering resentment of Protestant Anglo-Saxons, the founding population of America. New York City was a self-governing and prospering city populated mostly by New England Yankees before the Irish landed in the 1840s and turned the city into a tribal fiefdom.


47 posted on 04/17/2007 7:06:57 AM PDT by Aikonaa
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To: SIDENET
I'm still waiting for a response from you.

An American is, by definition, an optimist who is full of hope and a can-do attitude - not someone who writes off their own country as "probably already lost."

Defeatism is simply not part of an American's spiritual makeup.

48 posted on 04/17/2007 7:08:20 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Aikonaa
I’m willing to argue that Irish immigration has not necessarily been an overall positive for the US.

All waves of immigration change the country in various ways. The net effect is always positive, but there are always negative externalities as well.

To this day, some Irish have a simmering resentment of Protestant Anglo-Saxons, the founding population of America.

Correct, and it is a very annoying trait possessed by far too many Americans of Irish descent.

New York City was a self-governing and prospering city populated mostly by New England Yankees before the Irish landed in the 1840s and turned the city into a tribal fiefdom.

Your statement implies that NYC ceased being prosperous in the wake of the Irish immigration, when it really it became even more wildly prosperous than it had ever been. And NYC was a very rough-and-tumble town before the Irish arrived as well - it wasn't all English and it had precious few "New England Yankees."

Sour, dour New Englanders were a stock figure of fun for boisterous New Yorkers before the Irish arrived. There were Dutch and Germans and Scots and Jews and plenty of warring political factions in the city.

The sheer numbers of the Irish created an unstoppable machine that rolled over all the smaller machines that existed before - and the new machine was cemented into place with police forces that were mostly Irish.

49 posted on 04/17/2007 7:17:19 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
An American is, by definition, an optimist who is full of hope and a can-do attitude - not someone who writes off their own country as "probably already lost."

Defeatism is simply not part of an American's spiritual makeup.

Nice of you to label my opinion as "defeatism". So, my not-so-rosy opinion makes me somehow less American than an illegal alien?

I'll remember that on my next sortie over Iraq.

50 posted on 04/17/2007 7:33:26 AM PDT by SIDENET (Now selling carbon offsets. Get some today!)
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