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Higher Ground "Half of New Orleans is at or above sea level"
The (New Orleans) Times-Picayune ^ | 4/21/2007 | Leslie Williams

Posted on 04/21/2007 9:43:08 AM PDT by macmedic892

A yearlong topographic and demographic study of New Orleans arrives this month like the latest installment of the television series "MythBusters" -- and may forever change the notion of the Big Easy as a below-sea-level city.

"Contrary to popular perceptions, half of New Orleans is at or above sea level," according to the study by Tulane and Xavier universities' Center for Bioenvironmental Research.

(SNIP)

"Innumerable media reports following Hurricane Katrina described the topography of New Orleans as unconditionally below sea level," the study notes. "This oversimplification is inaccurate by half, and its frequent repetition does a great disservice to the city."

(BIG SNIP)

"LIDAR elevation data show that 51 percent of the terrestrial surface of the contiguous urbanized portions of Orleans, Jefferson, and St. Bernard parishes lie at or above sea level (with the highest neighborhoods at 10-12 feet above mean sea level), while 49 percent lies below sea level, in places to equivalent depths."

(Excerpt) Read more at nola.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS:
Image of New Orleans area, with at or above sea level areas in green (PDF):

HIGHER GROUND GRAPHIC
1 posted on 04/21/2007 9:43:10 AM PDT by macmedic892
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To: macmedic892

Meanwhile, I’m donning my asbestos underwear . . .


2 posted on 04/21/2007 9:45:21 AM PDT by macmedic892 (I am serious. And don't call me Shirley.)
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To: macmedic892

So, is the glass half full or half empty?


3 posted on 04/21/2007 9:48:05 AM PDT by operation clinton cleanup
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To: macmedic892

If it is at sea level, this means it will still flood if the levees go. Above sea level isn’t all that great either if it is only a few feet. So what we really have is more than half of NO is at or below sea level, this is a more realistic way of saying it. At sea level means under water!


4 posted on 04/21/2007 9:52:12 AM PDT by calex59
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To: macmedic892

But I bet the parts above sea level don’t smell too good when the other half is under water. It’s rather difficult to get around just on streets that are above sea level.


5 posted on 04/21/2007 9:55:16 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: macmedic892

Yes... and on average, a person residing in the city of New Orleans has one testicle and one ovary.

Averages are meaningless.


6 posted on 04/21/2007 9:58:04 AM PDT by So Cal Rocket
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To: macmedic892

And so, NOLA wasn’t really devastated after all if only 50% was underwater. I want my money back.


7 posted on 04/21/2007 10:11:54 AM PDT by Ol' Sox
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To: macmedic892
This is bogus. Everybody knows, and was saying during the flooding, that downtown New Orleans is on high ground. This high ground is shaped like a crescent, which is why one of the nicknames for NO is "crescent city."

It's all of the suburbs that have been built below sea level behind levies, and those are the areas that flooded.

So technically, most of the "city" of New Orleans is above sea level, but most of the greater metropolitan area of New Orleans is below.

I like the joke about digging a canal along the US-Mexican boarder, and using the dirt to backfill New Orleans.

8 posted on 04/21/2007 10:13:30 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: All

Who exactly was it that was saying the entire city was below sea level? Even if you had never looked at a map of the elevations, which many of us have, it was clear after Katrina that the entire city was not under water. I guess I’m missing the point here, which wouldn’t be the first time.


9 posted on 04/21/2007 10:17:40 AM PDT by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Home of the Free Because of the Brave)
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To: Yo-Yo

“I like the joke about digging a canal along the US-Mexican boarder, and using the dirt to backfill New Orleans.”

What joke? Use the dirt to backfill NO and use the water to build a moat on the US-Mexico border. And don’t forget to put in the moat seabass with frikin laser beams on their heads.

Yes, ill temperes seabass.


10 posted on 04/21/2007 10:20:35 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Communism is legalized corruption by the elite.)
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To: So Cal Rocket

“Averages are meaningless.”

I guess you failed statistics.


11 posted on 04/21/2007 10:23:11 AM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: So Cal Rocket
Yes... and on average, a person residing in the city of New Orleans has one testicle and one ovary.

I thought Barney Frank was from Massachusetts?

12 posted on 04/21/2007 10:24:10 AM PDT by RockinRight (Support FREDeralism. Fred Thompson in 2008!)
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To: JustaDumbBlonde

“Who exactly was it that was saying the entire city was below sea level?”

Who hasn’t? I hear this all the time.


13 posted on 04/21/2007 10:26:28 AM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: macmedic892

-—ah yes —and then there’s “storm surge”—


14 posted on 04/21/2007 10:27:58 AM PDT by rellimpank (-don't believe anything the MSM states about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

Nope. Alligators. The joke said to put all the excess Florida gators into the moat.


15 posted on 04/21/2007 10:28:03 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: macmedic892

On Rebuilding New Orleans:

Well, if you’ve been reading many of the New Orleans threads you might have seen some ideas.

For example, the one I advocate is turning New Orleans into a giant garbage tip.

Because of it’s location at the mouth of the mighty Mississippi, it is ideally located to accept garbage from the entire Mississippi basin and Gulf Coast.

Fill in the entire Crescent City area with enough garbage, mine tailings, slag, and fly ash to build it up to 30 feet above sea level.

Cover it with 10 feet of dirt, incorporating underground utility grids, a few feet of topsoil, and rebuild on top of that.

Tel New Orleans would become the South’s new ‘Shining City on a Hill’.

Fund the entire project with fair market rate disposal fees.


16 posted on 04/21/2007 10:29:12 AM PDT by null and void (To Marines, male bonding happens in Boot Camp, to Democrats, it happens at a Gay Pride parade...)
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To: macmedic892

The notion that these findings “may forever change the notion of the Big Easy as a below-sea-level city” is ridiculous. Of course, NO officials and La. officials hope that people will take this study at face value. The problem remains that NO is actively sliding into the sea—which is why the level of the levees will always be sinking as well. Is there enough money on the planet to pay for maintaining NO’s habitability?


17 posted on 04/21/2007 10:29:30 AM PDT by Clara Lou (Run, Fred, run!)
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To: Yo-Yo
This high ground is shaped like a crescent, which is why one of the nicknames for NO is “crescent city.”

Now you went and did it; the muslims are on their way to claim it for their prophet...

18 posted on 04/21/2007 10:29:39 AM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: RockinRight

He has a testicle?


19 posted on 04/21/2007 10:30:45 AM PDT by null and void (To Marines, male bonding happens in Boot Camp, to Democrats, it happens at a Gay Pride parade...)
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To: Ol' Sox
" NOLA wasn’t really devastated after all if only 50% was underwater. "

Pay attention. It said 50% is above mean sea level. If the water level rises above sea level and the levees fail to keep water out, and the pumps fail to push water out, then yes, those areas will be flooded.

Katrina's storm surge into Lake Pontchartrain was over 10 feet. Therefore, when the levees broke and the pumps failed, only the very highest parts of the city didn't flood.

And, if you really don't believe that NOLA, many other parts of southeast Louisiana, and the Mississippi Coast weren't devastated, I invite you to come down for a visit.
20 posted on 04/21/2007 10:38:02 AM PDT by macmedic892 (I am serious. And don't call me Shirley.)
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To: macmedic892

That means that half the city is below sea level. Just depends on how one wants to spin the story.


21 posted on 04/21/2007 10:48:53 AM PDT by taxesareforever (Never forget Matt Maupin)
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To: taxesareforever

At high tide. or low tide? How tall were the waves?


22 posted on 04/21/2007 11:02:16 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ("Don't touch that thing")
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To: macmedic892
Higher Ground "Half of New Orleans is at or above sea level"

So is the Mississippi River and Lake Pontchartrain

23 posted on 04/21/2007 11:07:30 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: macmedic892

The only way to handle this is to can the city government and bring in Dutch engineers to run the place.


24 posted on 04/21/2007 11:14:49 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS
The only way to handle this is to can the city government and bring in Dutch engineers to run the place.

I don't know about the Dutch engineers--they have a much smaller area to work with, and a better foundation to build on. I don't live in the city, so I can't do anything about the Chocolate Mayor. But we ARE going to have a change in state leadership, since Gov. Blank-Stare isn't running for re-election, and there doesn't seem to be anybody on the (D) side who wants to run against Jindal.
25 posted on 04/21/2007 11:22:04 AM PDT by macmedic892 (I am serious. And don't call me Shirley.)
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To: macmedic892
Most of the people who are surprised to find out this information need to find a better source of information than the mainstream media. Most people from the area all ready knew.
26 posted on 04/21/2007 11:26:10 AM PDT by ThomasThomas
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To: macmedic892

The foundation that the Dutch are building on is something like a thousand years of fighting the North Sea, which is capable of hurling the equivalent of a hurricane at them at any time.


27 posted on 04/21/2007 11:26:36 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: macmedic892

The normal elevation of Lake Pontchartrain is about 11 feet. Pretty much the whole city is below that.


28 posted on 04/21/2007 11:32:10 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.)
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To: Yo-Yo
This is bogus. Everybody knows, and was saying during the flooding, that downtown New Orleans is on high ground. This high ground is shaped like a crescent, which is why one of the nicknames for NO is "crescent city." It's all of the suburbs that have been built below sea level behind levies, and those are the areas that flooded. So technically, most of the "city" of New Orleans is above sea level, but most of the greater metropolitan area of New Orleans is below.

The bottom line is that metropolitan New Orleans outside of the French Quarter is built on land that even the French were not stupid enough to build on.

29 posted on 04/21/2007 11:38:28 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: macmedic892

Wow! A whole half!


30 posted on 04/21/2007 11:38:38 AM PDT by vpintheak (Like a muddied spring or a polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked. Prov. 25:26)
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To: null and void

Excellent idea.


31 posted on 04/21/2007 11:45:04 AM PDT by patton (19yrs ... only 4,981yrs to go ;))
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To: PAR35

LOL! Now that’s a point I can relate to.


32 posted on 04/21/2007 2:12:18 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Never forget Matt Maupin)
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To: macmedic892

If HALF is at or above sea level, then by the process of usual elimination, the other half is BELOW sea lavel.
What “myth” is being busted here?

I thought we were told for months that “ONLY A PART” of NO was below sea level.
This seems to indicate that much more is below sea level than we had been told.

This is not just a discussion of a “glass half full” or a “glass half empty”.

This is serious money being spent to rebuild where nothing should have been built in the first place, IMO.


33 posted on 04/21/2007 2:18:04 PM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: Yo-Yo

I like the joke about digging a canal along the US-Mexican boarder, and using the dirt to backfill New Orleans.”

You forgot the part about putting water and relocating alligators from Florida into the ditch/moat/canal.....


34 posted on 04/21/2007 2:19:33 PM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: macmedic892; All

The “news” reporting of this report is MISLEADING, and puts a more positive spin on the data than the actual data would give you.

However, that spin was not put there by the “news” media, they are simply reporting the spin provided by the “scientists” at “CBR” (the Tulane/Xavier Center for Bioenvironmental Research), which produced the study.

The major element of that spin is all the references to the “at or above sea level” percentage.

When it comes to any sizable storm, even less than hurricane strength, in a low-lying, wetland area at the ocean-end of a river, like New Orleans on the Mississippi, the difference between “below sea level” and “at sea level” is next to nil.

And, if “at sea level” is combined with “below sea level”, which I believe it should be, then, from data I inferred from the graph provided by CBR, you start to get a very different picture, because it means that 59% is “AT OR BELOW SEA LEVEL” and just 41% is “ABOVE SEA LEVEL”. (See my final note in the data).

Further, the CBR “reporting” of their “report” takes little interest in how much land “above sea level” requires protection by levees and will depend for its safety on the levee system.

How much New Orleans land is more than one foot above sea level? Only 34%; 3 feet, 27%; 4 feet, 22%, 5 feet, 17%; 6 feet, 13%; 7 feet, 10%; 8 feet, 7%; 9 feet, 5%, 10 feet, 4%.

The highest recorded point in the Katrina storm surge on Lake Ponchitrain was 6.8 feet, before the gage failed (http://www.srh.noaa.gov/mob/0805Katrina/psh_lix.shtml);

the Katrina report from the National Climatic Data Center at NOAA reported the level of the Mississippi at New Orleans on August 29th to be above 14 feet
(http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2005/katrina.html)

Even a storm surge of half that strength would leave only 10% of New Orleans above a level that needs protection from the levees.

The “spin” in my view is how the report (1)combines the “at sea level” data with the “above sea level” data and (2) how it ignores the implications of the data, which demonstrate that most (64%) of the “above sea level” area (which is only 41% of the total area) IS NOT ABOVE LEVELS THAT REQUIRE THE SAME PROTECTION FROM THE LEVEES THAT ALL THE “AT AND BELOW SEA LEVEL” REQUIRES, MOST OF THE TIME.

Now then, the scientists who produced the CBR report itself did not report the actual data points (height of land relative to sea level), other than in the summary averages of them that they wanted to talk about.

They produced a graph only. It plotted the data in 30 data points in 1 foot increments from “more than 14 feet above sea level”, to “sea level”, to “below 13 feet below sea level”.

I had to discern (visually) approximate data point values from the graph (which can be found using the link to the PDF form of the report “Above-Sea-Level New Orleans: The Residential Capacity of Orleans Parish’s Higher Ground” at: http://www.cbr.tulane.edu/.

To my pleasant surprise, my first-cut attempt produced summary averages of “below sea level” and “at or above sea level” exactly in the amounts stated in the CBR report. I am fairly confident that my estimation of the increments will not vary greatly from the actual data CBR made their graph with. If anyone wants those data points, I will be glad to share them.


35 posted on 04/21/2007 3:02:45 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: macmedic892
Pay attention.

Sorry champ, forgot the /sarc tag on my comment - thought it was obvious. I also thought that this was perhaps the most ignorantly written article I've seen this month.

36 posted on 04/21/2007 4:40:54 PM PDT by Ol' Sox
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To: JustaDumbBlonde

Sometimes I get lost and ping people in the future.


37 posted on 10/06/2007 6:33:03 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Greed is NOT a conservative ideal.)
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To: macmedic892

How’s that working for you sparky?


38 posted on 10/06/2007 6:39:07 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: cripplecreek
You're killin' me! Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
39 posted on 10/06/2007 6:40:35 PM PDT by JustaDumbBlonde
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To: calex59

But wait - is this the real sea level or the ALGORE sea level??


40 posted on 10/06/2007 6:42:28 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: macmedic892

Well, that settles that.


41 posted on 10/06/2007 6:47:35 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: EQAndyBuzz

Gators in the moat would be better.


42 posted on 10/06/2007 6:52:11 PM PDT by Grams A
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