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'Lord' is fading at some churches (Barf alert)
Arizona Daily Star ^ | April 22, 2007 | Stephanie Innes

Posted on 04/22/2007 2:48:10 PM PDT by Zakeet

God has no gender. And the Lord? There's not much Lord in this church service.

At Tucson's largest Episcopal church, St. Philip's in the Hills, the creators of an alternative worship service called Come & See are bucking tradition by rewriting what have become prescribed ways of worship.

For the faithful, that means God isn't referred to as "him," and references to "the Lord" are rare. "Lord" has become a loaded word conveying hierarchical power over things, "which in what we have recorded in our sacred texts, is not who Jesus understood himself to be," St. Philip's associate rector Susan Anderson-Smith said.

"The way our service reads, the theology is that God is love, period," St. Philip's deacon Thomas Lindell added. "Our service has done everything it can to get rid of power imagery. We do not pray as though we expect the big guy in the sky to come and fix everything."

St. Philip's isn't the only local church to re-examine its language. Other local religious leaders already are eschewing the use of "Lord" for similar reasons. First Congregational United Church of Christ in Midtown even has a different name for The Lord's Prayer. They call it "The Prayer of Our Creator."

"We do still use the word 'Lord' on occasion, but we are suspicious of it," First Congregational pastor Briget Nicholson said. "Inclusive language is important. Our United Church of Christ hymnal does have hymns that will say 'Father' and 'God.' but the next verse will always then say 'Mother' and 'God.' It's gender-balanced."

(Excerpt) Read more at azstarnet.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: episcopal; fauxchristianity; lord; pc; religion
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For those persons interested in pain, there is much more unsettling material in the article itself.

1 posted on 04/22/2007 2:48:12 PM PDT by Zakeet
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To: Zakeet
Satanic apostasy.
2 posted on 04/22/2007 2:49:31 PM PDT by Binstence (Live freep or die)
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To: Zakeet

And this is backed by scripture, where?


3 posted on 04/22/2007 2:58:42 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: Zakeet

A Christian pastor takes a heavy responsibility on his head. When you get an idiot priestess and an idiot deacon like this, they are misleading their flock, plain and simple. It’s bad enough to go astray yourself, but to lead others astray is a much worse sin.


4 posted on 04/22/2007 3:00:43 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Zakeet
"Lord" has become a loaded word conveying hierarchical power over things,

As if God had the power of creation and damnation. What a downer. Isn't it better to think of "God" as a commune of eternal relative rightness?

5 posted on 04/22/2007 3:01:30 PM PDT by SampleMan (Islamic tolerance is practiced by killing you last.)
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To: Cicero

Yes, and with ‘no one on first’ — no leadership to speak of in the Episkies/ Anglicans, why, anything goes!!


6 posted on 04/22/2007 3:01:57 PM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: Zakeet
"The way our service reads, the theology is that God is love"

And the kind of love they're talking about requires lots of K-Y jelly, handcuffs, a feather boa and several yards of garden hose!

7 posted on 04/22/2007 3:02:51 PM PDT by Jagman (I drank Frank Rabelais under the table!)
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To: Zakeet

I guess thousands of years of wisdom and tradition is on the scrap heap ‘cause it offends someone. Or isn’t hip. If every generation can just re-invent religion to their own liking, then we might as well just start worshiping Gaia. Or maybe just start worshiping the image in the mirror—which is what I suspect many people on the Left do anyway.


8 posted on 04/22/2007 3:03:50 PM PDT by rbg81 (1)
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To: Zakeet
“Our service has done everything it can to get rid of power imagery. We do not pray as though we expect the big guy in the sky to come and fix everything.”

God is the God of love as well as he God of justice and retribution. He may no come and “fix everything” but His power should be taken greatly in to focus. He can raise souls in to heaven and cast them down to Hell. He also made the universe from pure will, He did not give birth to it. Referring to Him as Lord is appropriate.

9 posted on 04/22/2007 3:03:51 PM PDT by tranzorZ
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To: Zakeet
At Tucson's largest Episcopal church...

Is this the same Episcopal church that recently appointed an openly homosexual, adulterer, alcoholic, who left his wife and children in order to have sex with another man, Bishop? If so, Lord was evicted many years ago. And they don't believe much of God's word.

10 posted on 04/22/2007 3:04:05 PM PDT by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: Zakeet
"We do not pray as though we expect the big guy in the sky to come and fix everything."

Well, that part is right.

11 posted on 04/22/2007 3:04:15 PM PDT by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
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To: Cicero

From the Article: “We don’t stress the blood and gore of the crucifixion and the so-called sacrifice of the Mass,” he said. “I think that calls attention to Jesus’ death but it doesn’t call attention to why we are Christians. It seems to me, being a Christian isn’t just about the birth and death of Jesus. It’s about living in the world with his life as an example.”

Wow, how to respond to that, its apostasy of the first order. The Death of Christ and Resurrection of the core of the faith and the reason for Salvation.


12 posted on 04/22/2007 3:05:11 PM PDT by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: Zakeet

Revelation 3:16 (Whole Chapter)
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


13 posted on 04/22/2007 3:05:11 PM PDT by Mogollon
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To: Zakeet; All

Well .. Jesus also said, “If you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the Father”.

I would presume that Jesus understood what His power was all about - but He laid it aside and did not use it while He walked on the earth. But .. that doesn’t mean it wasn’t available to Him.

Remember in the Garden, when the soldiers came to take Him away .. He commented that if He had chosen to, He could have called tens of thousands of angels to rescue Him ..?? So, for people to say Jesus didn’t believe He had “hierarchical power over things” .. only shows how ignorant these so-called church people are concerning the “Lord”.


14 posted on 04/22/2007 3:07:18 PM PDT by CyberAnt ("... first time in history the U.S. House has attempted to surrender via C-SPAN TV ...")
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To: CindyDawg

“And this is backed by scripture, where?”

Haven’t you heard? Sola scriptura is too limiting. Tradition (heresy older than fifty years} is just as good.


15 posted on 04/22/2007 3:07:27 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: Zakeet

>>St. Philip’s associate rector Susan Anderson-Smith said.<<

The hyphen people just love churches, don’t they?


16 posted on 04/22/2007 3:07:35 PM PDT by ishabibble (ALL AMERICAN INFIDEL)
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To: Huber

anglican ping


17 posted on 04/22/2007 3:07:51 PM PDT by Fractal Trader
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To: Zakeet

All these liberal nuts are damned. They are deceivers and on their way to hell - seeking to take as many with them as they can.


18 posted on 04/22/2007 3:08:38 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: StAthanasiustheGreat

Ack, I missed that part. How revolting.

Didn’t Ann Coulter talk about how any idiot can say be nice to eachother, but Jesus’s message was of Him being salvation?


19 posted on 04/22/2007 3:09:34 PM PDT by tranzorZ
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To: Salvation; NYer; narses; ninenot; Aquinasfan; AnAmericanMother; Desdemona; Siobhan; nickcarraway; ..

Strong Stomach Ping.


20 posted on 04/22/2007 3:09:59 PM PDT by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: tranzorZ

I am not sure, but I know C.S. Lewis did. The whole Lord, Liar, or Lunatic argument. If Christ is a good teacher, then He must also be the Christ, and thus, LORD. Otherwise, he is just a liar or lunatic. But it seems many “Christians” have embraced the concept of Christ as a good life teacher, but lets not talk about Him being the Son of God.


21 posted on 04/22/2007 3:11:42 PM PDT by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: Huber

Ping!


22 posted on 04/22/2007 3:13:08 PM PDT by Salvation (" With God all things are possible. ")
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To: gcruse

Careful. You might have some Romans after you with that line of reasoning....


23 posted on 04/22/2007 3:13:36 PM PDT by Theo (Global warming "scientists." Pro-evolution "scientists." They're both wrong.)
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To: ishabibble

Yesterday I read about a married couple so progressive that the wife not only kept her maiden name, but their daughters carried the mother’s name and their sons carried their dad’s.

It’s sort of like building divorce in as you go along, I guess.


24 posted on 04/22/2007 3:13:48 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: GraniteStateConservative

God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit has three answers to prayer:

Yes,
No,
Not now.


25 posted on 04/22/2007 3:14:42 PM PDT by Salvation (" With God all things are possible. ")
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To: gcruse

**Tradition (heresy older than fifty years} is just as good.**

Where are you getting this idea? Sounds anti-Catholic to me.


26 posted on 04/22/2007 3:15:59 PM PDT by Salvation (" With God all things are possible. ")
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To: Theo

Not reasoning, just reporting. Christianity encompasses so many conflicting claims, it’s easy to get folks all stirred up.


27 posted on 04/22/2007 3:17:12 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: gcruse

**Tradition (heresy older than fifty years} is just as good.**

Tradition has a lot to do with it. Stories about Christ were passed down orally (this is what tradition means) and finally written down around 80-90 when the apostles started to die.

We would NOT have a Bible if it were not for this oral tradition of the Catholic Church.


28 posted on 04/22/2007 3:18:05 PM PDT by Salvation (" With God all things are possible. ")
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To: Salvation

My fault for sounding narrow. Anti-religion is apt.


29 posted on 04/22/2007 3:18:23 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: Zakeet
Philippians 2:5-11

5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The way I read this is Jesus is LORD. Every knee will bow, either voluntarily or otherwise, and confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD.

I choose to bow my knee voluntarily now and forevermore.

Thank you, LORD!

30 posted on 04/22/2007 3:19:02 PM PDT by mombonn (God is looking for spiritual fruit, not religious nuts.)
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To: Zakeet
"Lord" has become a loaded word conveying hierarchical power over things,

Christ is the King of Kings.

31 posted on 04/22/2007 3:19:25 PM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: Zakeet
"Lord" has become a loaded word conveying hierarchical power over things, "which in what we have recorded in our sacred texts, is not who Jesus understood himself to be,"

I don't know which sacred text they are referring to. Mine says that all power and judgment over this world was given to Jesus Christ by the Father. They must have a special version of the Bible.

32 posted on 04/22/2007 3:20:10 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: Cicero
Amen.

Read Ezekiel 34 and weep those who profess to shepherd the sheep.

33 posted on 04/22/2007 3:21:36 PM PDT by mombonn (God is looking for spiritual fruit, not religious nuts.)
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To: Zakeet
There are plenty of churches out there who still try to stick to the Gospel, although of course none of them are perfect. Calvary Tucson is one of them. I rather like Furrow's teachings.

"Gender-balanced". Barf. These leftists make me ill, wanting to make God what they want Him to be.

This is nothing but an attempt at relief of guilt.

34 posted on 04/22/2007 3:23:53 PM PDT by FlyVet
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To: Zakeet

“Our service has done everything it can to get rid of power imagery. We do not pray as though we expect the big guy in the sky to come and fix everything.”

I understand how they would like this. I mean, all that pesky Christian activist stuff is so much easier to handle when you picture God as useless and weak.


35 posted on 04/22/2007 3:26:03 PM PDT by I still care ("Remember... for it is the doom of men that they forget" - Merlin, from Excalibur)
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To: Zakeet

“Lord” has become a loaded word conveying hierarchical power over things.....

^^
Well, moron, are any of us on His level?

And God is a He whether girl ministers like it or not.


36 posted on 04/22/2007 3:26:35 PM PDT by Bigg Red (You are either with us or with the terrorists.)
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To: Zakeet

And my Buddy said, go and be fruitful in my name?

Somehow it doesn’t have the same power to move me.


37 posted on 04/22/2007 3:27:43 PM PDT by wildbill
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To: PetroniusMaximus

Yeah, they don’t like the term “the LORD” because it’s in the US Constitution, if they get rid of the term, it makes the liberal denial even easier for them.


38 posted on 04/22/2007 3:27:58 PM PDT by Baladas
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To: Salvation

Sounds like those folks just needed a hall for a get together, instead of a ‘church’.

It would be interesting to see their version of the scriptures; It must have taken them years to get everything down to one paragraph; Or maybe a sentence “I will not serve”, or one word “Me”.

P.S. On the tradition question.
Same place sola scriptura came from. That ‘by word’ part is a problem.


39 posted on 04/22/2007 3:28:08 PM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray for Tony Snow, Liz Edwards, cancer patients, their families and support.)
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To: rbg81

...we might as well just start worshiping Gaia.

&&

Ah, now your on the track they’d like you to be on. If you were serious, I’ll bet they’d love you at this church.


40 posted on 04/22/2007 3:28:54 PM PDT by Bigg Red (You are either with us or with the terrorists.)
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To: ishabibble

Don’t discourage them from using the hyphen; it’s a handy way to know quite quickly that you’re dealing with a Leftist.


41 posted on 04/22/2007 3:31:54 PM PDT by Bigg Red (You are either with us or with the terrorists.)
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To: Zakeet

These folks are intimidated by power words like “Lord”?

Well, how about “King of Kings”, the “Alpha and the Omega”, “Prince”, “The Almighty”, “Captain of Salvation”, “Governor”, “Great High Priest”, “Judge of Israel”, “Lawgiver”, and “Mighty One”. Oh, here’s another name for Jesus that ought to make them feel inadequate: “Messiah”.


42 posted on 04/22/2007 3:32:04 PM PDT by AngrySpud (Behold, I am The Anti-Chrust ... Anti-Hillary)
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To: Zakeet

I left the Episcopal church 25 years ago for many of the same reasons people are leaving it today, including the fact that I did not want to support the National Council of Churches. Our precious Lord Jesus Christ must be weeping hot and salty tears for what is happening in so many of our main line churches! As the hierarchy tumbles away from the True Church, they no longer believe that He is the Son of God, a part of the Holy Trinity which makes up the one true God. How can they believe or follow His word, when they openly and brazenly defy Him?

But the Pentecostal and Evangelical churches are absorbing those leaving the mainline churches at such a rapid rate that multiple services, including those on Saturday evening are necessary to feed the membership. Our church will soon break ground on a new building to accommodate our growth, and we happily include a large teenaged membership. We had already outgrown the last church we built before we could move into it!
Praise God, that we are a house of prayer with frequent outreach programs to the community to gratefully do His work.


43 posted on 04/22/2007 3:37:30 PM PDT by Paperdoll ( Duncan Hunter '08)
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To: Jagman
And the kind of love they're talking about requires lots of K-Y jelly, handcuffs, a feather boa and several yards of garden hose!

Garden hose??

44 posted on 04/22/2007 3:44:20 PM PDT by Ole Okie
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To: CindyDawg

If you change the meaning of words then you can make the bible say anything.


45 posted on 04/22/2007 3:49:08 PM PDT by TrailofTears (."We mock loyalty and are shocked at finding traitors in our midst." CS Lewis)
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To: Zakeet; Huber; sionnsar; lightman
Boy, I wouldn't make it in their church. I just counted, and I used the word "Lord" over 20 times in my sermon this morning:

"The Risen Lord Restores His Fisherman and Shepherd" (Sermon for the Third Sunday of Easter)

46 posted on 04/22/2007 3:53:49 PM PDT by Charles Henrickson (Lutheran pastor, LCMS)
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To: Ole Okie

Just checking to see if anybody was really reading this thread.


47 posted on 04/22/2007 3:56:37 PM PDT by Jagman (I drank Frank Rabelais under the table!)
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To: Cicero

A Christian pastor takes a heavy responsibility on his head. When you get an idiot priestess and an idiot deacon like this, they are misleading their flock, plain and simple. It’s bad enough to go astray yourself, but to lead others astray is a much worse sin.

Yeah, like the pastor of the Luthern Church where we USED to attend, when he invited a Muslim to come and tell us all about how ‘peaceful’ Islam is. We, and our substantial weekly tithe, walked right out the door, never to return.


48 posted on 04/22/2007 3:58:09 PM PDT by hardworking (Hill-de-pants: Never held a job. Never bought a home. Never met a payroll. Qualified to be POTUS)
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To: tranzorZ

Fear of the Lord is a gift of the Holy Spirit! Obviously these folks also are not accepting of the gifts of the Holy Spirit then. Are they in denial of the Holy Trinity too?

No wonder so many Episcopal churches and their congregations are leaving and either starting up their own congregations in union with more conservative bishops - or are becoming Catholics.


49 posted on 04/22/2007 3:58:58 PM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: Zakeet

Sign of the end of times.


50 posted on 04/22/2007 3:59:30 PM PDT by bmwcyle ( Freep Fox they drop the ball on GOE)
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