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Giuliani as the GOP presidential nominee would be a dagger in the heart of the conservative movement
(From a thread) | Credit to Spiff for the chart and flashbunny for the grapics

Posted on 04/22/2007 10:45:43 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

Giuliani as the GOP presidential nominee would be a dagger in the heart of the conservative movement (and a knife in the back).

The only difference in a Liberal Rudy Giuliani and Liberal Hillary Clinton is the fact of which bathrooms they select to use and there are some who are willing to even question that.

Giuliani/Clinton/Dem vs. GOP Platform Comparison
Issue
Giuliani Clinton Dem Platform GOP Platform
Abortion on Demand Supports Supports Supports Opposes
Partial Birth Abortion SupportsOpposed NY ban Supports Supports Opposes
Roe v. Wade Supports Supports Supports Opposes
Taxpayer Funded Abortions Supports Supports Supports Opposes
Embryonic Stem Cell Research Supports Supports Supports Opposes
Federal Marriage Amendment Opposes Opposes Opposes
Defined at state level
Supports
Gay Domestic Partnership/
Civil Unions
Supports Supports Supports Opposes
Openly Gay Military Supports Supports Supports Opposes
Defense of Marriage Act Opposes Opposes Opposes Supports
Amnesty for Illegal Aliens Supports Supports Supports Opposes
Special Path to Citizenship
for Illegal Aliens
Supports Supports Supports Opposes
Tough Penalties for
Employers of Illegal Aliens
Opposes Opposes Opposes Supports
Sanctuary Cities/
Ignoring Immigration Law
Supports Supports Supports Opposes
Protecting 2nd Amendment Opposes

Opposes Opposes
Supports bans
Supports
Confiscating Guns Supports
Confiscated
as mayor.
Even bragged.
Supports Supports
Supports bans
Opposes
'Assault' Weapons Ban Supports Supports Supports  
Frivolous Lawsuits
Against Gun Makers
Supports
Filed One
Himself
Supports   Opposes
Gun Registration/Licenses Supports Supports   Opposes
War in Afghanistan Supports Supports
Voted for it
Supports Supports
War in Iraq Supports Supports
Voted for it
Supports
Weak support
Supports
Patriot Act Supports Supports
Voted for it
2001 & 2006
Opposes Supports



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2008; electionpresident; elections; giuliani; grapics; liberal; liberalgop; rudyinadress; weasel
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To: GovernmentShrinker
If Mayor Linguine D-ck runs against Hillary, he will get stomped, just as he would have had he not jumped out of the Senate race.

Having friends like Harding and Kerick does not make you honest. Giving a glorified stump speech in front of some burning buildings, and sending cops after squeegee men does not make one tough.

Giuliani is a second rate greaseball barrister with a third rate intellect. I'll pass, even if he gets the nomination.

51 posted on 04/22/2007 11:14:49 PM PDT by Clemenza (NO to Rudy in 2008! New York's Values are NOT America's Values! RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: AZRepublican; Jim Robinson; All
His personal views should not be a barrier in allowing a liberal an easy walk into the WH.

Ladies and gentlemen I present to you perhaps the most crystal clear example of cognitive dissonance I have ever seen in my entire life.

Our friend AZRepublican has just made the assertion, with a straight face I presume, that we must allow a liberal into the White House in order for us to prevent a liberal getting into the White House.

Let's all just bask in the glory of AZRepubs absolutely insipid statement for a moment shall we?

I mean do any of you realize how difficult it is to almost perfectly distill the absolute moral blindness displayed by the Rudy supporters into just 18 words? That's gotta take some work.

Ordinary people faced with such a task would most likely crumble before such a challenge. But our friend AZR has made it look easy.

Now any normal person would be satisfied with pulling off such a Herculean task so easily and would quite likely call it a day.

But AZR has also included this little gem:

Let’s see what positions he takes for the executive office.

Now I'll give you all a moment or two to catch your breath and let the tears of laughter clear from your eyes...

Better now? Good. I'll continue.

Now the real beauty of this statement is that AZR is somehow making the argument that Rudy hasn't actually taken any positions for the 'executive office'. Well, of course we all know that he has. Jim very kindly posted them at the very top of the thread.

But does that stop our pal AZR from plunging straight ahead and somehow trying to tell us that Rudy hasn't taken these positions literally dozens of times in the recent past? No, it doesn't!

Now that ladies and gentlemen takes some real chutzpah.

Not only does AZR try to lead us to believe that allowing a liberal into the WH will somehow stop a liberal from getting into the WH but he tries to tell us that Rudy hasn't taken any positions yet!

Why the length and breadth of the mind bending absurdity contained in just two small paragraphs composed of less than 50 words simply takes ones breath away.

Honestly folks, I don't know how he does it.

L

52 posted on 04/22/2007 11:14:58 PM PDT by Lurker (Comparing 'moderate' islam to 'extremist' islam is like comparing small pox to plague.)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum

Yes it is.

The one thing Rudy is not, however, is a RINO. He is very much in the tradition of NE liberal republicanism. Think Shays, Snowe, Specter, Collins, Jeffords, etc. I just pray that that wing of the party is not in ascendancy. If it is, there is no point to the GOP.


53 posted on 04/22/2007 11:15:19 PM PDT by pissant
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To: AZRepublican
This is the problem for the "strict constructionist" defense -he thinks HE is a strict constructionist!


54 posted on 04/22/2007 11:15:22 PM PDT by flashbunny (<--- Free Anti-Rino graphics! See Rudy the Rino get exposed as a liberal with his own words!)
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To: BigTom85

>We can’t stop you from voting for Rudy. But please don’t think of him as a conservative.

Oh gosh, I don’t think of him as such a thing! He has conservative views on certain subjects, and very liberal on much everything else. BUT, if chances are 50/50 we can get a quality conservative justice appointed to the court I am willing to put up with Rudy for 4 years rather than the alternative of having more liberals sent to the bench under Hillary or Obama.


55 posted on 04/22/2007 11:15:38 PM PDT by AZRepublican ("The degree in which a measure is necessary can never be a test of the legal right to adopt it.")
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To: Doofer

Tough to keep track of all of Rudy’s gyrations these days though. He will have to say R v W is bad law sooner or later.


56 posted on 04/22/2007 11:16:20 PM PDT by pissant
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To: AZRepublican

So what? He repeatedly promised to “love, honor, and cherish” and to be faithful to his wives, too.


57 posted on 04/22/2007 11:16:22 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Better a democrat with an energized opposition than a leftist “Republican” with no opposition.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Rudy is left wing, baby killing SCUM!


58 posted on 04/22/2007 11:16:32 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! Or Rudy/Hillary if you want to murder conservatism)
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To: flashbunny

I’m missing the “kissing gay roomates” card, the “drag queen” card, and the “serial adulterer” card. ;-)


59 posted on 04/22/2007 11:18:42 PM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: Politicalmom
So what? He repeatedly promised to “love, honor, and cherish” and to be faithful to his wives, too.

That's gonna leave a mark.

L

60 posted on 04/22/2007 11:18:48 PM PDT by Lurker (Comparing 'moderate' islam to 'extremist' islam is like comparing small pox to plague.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Rudy drove libs crazy when he was mayor. Welfare was cut, taxes were cut, unions lost power, property values skyrocketed, crime was cut- These things didn’t happen because Rudy is one of them, but because he is one of us and he is far and away our best chance of winning.


61 posted on 04/22/2007 11:18:49 PM PDT by genghis
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To: AZRepublican

“Rudy Giuliani has repeatedly said that he will not seek to change current law as described in the Hyde Amendment, which prohibits federal funding of abortions except in cases involving rape or incest, or where the life of the mother is at stake. And, given the opportunity, a President Giuliani would appoint strict-constructionist judges who will follow in the philosophical footsteps of Justices Thomas, Alito, and Scalia, and Chief Justice Roberts.””

Yeah, and I am the son of a sea cook : )
Rudy is a POS!


62 posted on 04/22/2007 11:18:53 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! Or Rudy/Hillary if you want to murder conservatism)
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To: Lurker

: )


63 posted on 04/22/2007 11:19:50 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! Or Rudy/Hillary if you want to murder conservatism)
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To: AZRepublican
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
64 posted on 04/22/2007 11:19:55 PM PDT by Doofer
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To: Prokopton

I’ve heard Fred Thompson is more of a moderate according to his voting record while Hunter is more of a true conservative - especially on illegal immigration and abortion issues.

Thompson voted YES on allowing more foreign workers into the US for farm work.

And - Voted to create a national registry containing names of U.S. workers who want to perform temporary or seasonal agricultural work, and to require the Attorney General to allow more foreign workers into the U.S. for farm work under H-2A visas.

Reference: Bill S.2260 ; vote number 1998-233 on Jul 23, 1998

Voted YES on visas for skilled workers.

This bill expanded the Visa program for skilled workers.
Status: Bill Passed Y)78; N)20; NV)2

Reference: The American Competitiveness Act; Bill S. 1723 ; vote number 1998-141 on May 18, 1998

I’ve not really seen that much on him and that makes me wonder about Thompson - but - I’m sure that information will open up once he declares he is a candidate! You know the media digs up everything!

Ducan Hunter on other hand has this record:

He is strongly prolife.

He voted YES on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project. (Jun 2006)

Voted YES on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment. (May 2004)

Voted NO on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)

Voted NO on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998)

Rated 100% by FAIR, indicating a voting record restricting immigration. (Dec 2003)


65 posted on 04/22/2007 11:21:55 PM PDT by Anita1 ((In support of the troops, but opposed to the war means - you don't believe in what they are doing!))
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To: Anita1

Some of us don’t mark candidates off for supporting LEGAL immigration.


66 posted on 04/22/2007 11:23:59 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Better a democrat with an energized opposition than a leftist “Republican” with no opposition.)
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To: AZRepublican
He’s a liar and you’re a fool (or a propagandist). Either way, you’ll be zot bait if you continue lying for Rudy the abortionist. Fair warning.
67 posted on 04/22/2007 11:24:29 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Jim Robinson

This is going to upset a few of RINO Rudy’s supporters around here, assuming they haven’t migrated to more liberal places on the internet....


68 posted on 04/22/2007 11:24:52 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: AZRepublican

No, “positions” can change. Rudy has no core principles, other than do anything it takes to keep order. Rudy is a threat to American liberty. We are teetering on the edge of facism with Rudy, and socialism with the democrats, and I will resist either, hell does it make a difference to you?


69 posted on 04/22/2007 11:26:10 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT, NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
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To: AZRepublican
It’s not idiocy when considering the realities facing us in 08.

It's time people pull their hands off their noses and take a big whiff of reality.

Surrendering conservative principles to fear is not an option.

70 posted on 04/22/2007 11:26:52 PM PDT by dragnet2
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To: AZRepublican
His personal views should not be a barrier in allowing a liberal an easy walk into the WH.,

Giuliani in the White House is the same as a Hillary Clinton in the White House. A liberal is still a liberal, regardless of whether they have an "R" next to their name or not. We need to kick the RINOs like Rudy out of the GOP, because the GOP has been going to hell in a handbasket lately, what with all of the liberals running the show.
71 posted on 04/22/2007 11:28:36 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: Lurker
I'm saving this thread just for that reply. 8-)

Classic.

Regards

72 posted on 04/22/2007 11:29:50 PM PDT by Tinman (Yankee by birth, Texan by Choice..."Support the Troops" shouldn't be just a bumper sticker)
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To: dragnet2
Surrendering conservative principles to fear is not an option.

Amen. I've had several FReepers tell me that if I go off and support a Conservative third party candidate versus a liberal Republican, that I'm practically a traitor, and that I should just suck it up and "compromise".

The way I see it, if I compromise trade my Conservative beliefs for liberal ones, then I'm no better than any two-bit liberal.
73 posted on 04/22/2007 11:30:47 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: Tinman
I bow deeply in your direction, sir.

I hope all is well with you and yours.

L

74 posted on 04/22/2007 11:33:06 PM PDT by Lurker (Comparing 'moderate' islam to 'extremist' islam is like comparing small pox to plague.)
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To: AZRepublican
Rudy Giuliani has supported abortion on demand his entire life. Now that he's running for POTUS, Rudy`s playing fast with his public remarks.

"I do respect a woman's right to choose ...." Giuliani said. "...I ask people to look at the entire record and understand that this comes from something that I've thought about very, very heavily."

~~~ Rudy Giuliani, Phone interview on Radio Iowa, Feb 14, 2007

_________________________________________________________________________

Archives of Rudolph W. Giuliani, 107th Mayor

Opening Remarks to the N.A.R.A.L. "Champions of Choice" Lunch

The Yale Club, Thursday, April 5th, 2001

"Thank you very much for inviting me to say a few words of welcome. This event shows that people of different political parties and different political thinking can unite in support of choice. In doing so, we are upholding a distinguished tradition that began in our city starting with the work of Margaret Sanger and the movement for reproductive freedom that began in the early decades of the 20th century."

_________________________________________________________________________

“I’m pro-choice. I’m pro-gay rights,” Giuliani said. He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. “No, I have not supported that, and I don’t see my position on that changing,” he responded.

~~~ Source: CNN.com, “Inside Politics” Dec 2, 1999 _______________________________________________________________________

Giuliani also indicated he would have upheld President Clinton's veto of the partial-birth abortion ban.

"Yes. I said I then that I support him, so I have no reason to change my mind about it," he told the New York Times in November 1999.

___________________________________________________________________

So, are we to believe Rudy from the 1990`s, Rudy in 2001, or the Rudy of today? Fact is, they're all one in the same. If you trust a liberal politico, you're a fool.

75 posted on 04/22/2007 11:36:42 PM PDT by Reagan Man (FUHGETTABOUTIT Rudy....... Conservatives don't vote for liberals!)
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To: AZRepublican

I didn’t realize Rudy had a history of appointing conservative justices. How many did he appoint when he was mayor?


76 posted on 04/22/2007 11:37:10 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Be careful what you ask for, and even more careful what you demand. Ž)
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To: Jim Robinson

And there ‘tis...


77 posted on 04/22/2007 11:37:13 PM PDT by jedward (Mission '08 - Take back the House & Senate. No Negotiations...No Prisoners.)
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To: AZRepublican
If he is serious about strict constructionists on the supreme court

Giuliani praised Ruth Bader Ginsburg as a model of what Supreme Court justices should be like. As mayor of New York, he overwhelmingly appointed liberals as judges.

Why should we believe in his purported change of heart now?

78 posted on 04/22/2007 11:37:16 PM PDT by Mojave
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To: Lurker
Not really, amigo.

Just pinged you on another thread with the details.

Got to get back to work.

Later

79 posted on 04/22/2007 11:39:04 PM PDT by Tinman (Yankee by birth, Texan by Choice..."Support the Troops" shouldn't be just a bumper sticker)
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To: Jim Robinson

Um...Jim...the admin mods are going to ban you for spamming. Is that what you want? Come to your senses man, before it is too late... < /s >


80 posted on 04/22/2007 11:42:43 PM PDT by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")
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To: af_vet_rr; dragnet2
Surrendering conservative principles to fear is not an option.

Amen. I've had several FReepers tell me that if I go off and support a Conservative third party candidate versus a liberal Republican, that I'm practically a traitor, and that I should just suck it up and "compromise".

The way I see it, if I compromise trade my Conservative beliefs for liberal ones, then I'm no better than any two-bit liberal.

In case you don't know some of those Liberals in FReepers clothing have been zotted in the last couple of days.

81 posted on 04/22/2007 11:42:55 PM PDT by Doofer
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To: AZRepublican
I thought he said recently Roe was bad law?

No. He didn't. And he's had every chance to. He CELEBRATED Roe v. Wade's anniversary every year while Mayor with an official proclamation SUPPORTING it. He received accolades as a "Champion of Choice" from NARAL.

82 posted on 04/22/2007 11:45:13 PM PDT by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")
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To: AZRepublican
Giuliani campaign policy director Bill Simon Jr. emphasized Giuliani's preference for "strict-constructionist judges" in a letter to the editor of the National Review.

Although I wish he'd been elected, Bill Simon showed absolutely zero political acumen in his run for Governor of California. He was totally a credulous neophyte. He was backstabbed by the very RINOs he is serving in supporting Rudy, which he does out of loyalty for their association at the DOJ. Simon's support is therefore no indication of Rudy's conservative credentials.

83 posted on 04/22/2007 11:45:15 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: Clemenza

Having some friends who turn out to be dishonest doesn’t make you dishonest.

As for the squeegee men, a lot of them were threatening and a few carried out threats. Intimidating motorists while they’re stuck in traffic at stop lights, by approaching and touching their cars without permission or invitation, is not something that should be tolerated. It’s not something that’s safe for city drivers to get accustomed to.


84 posted on 04/22/2007 11:52:41 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: genghis

I agree. I urgently want to see him “get it” on the Second Amendment (and I think he actually might make a lot of progress on that point), and I wish he wasn’t as comfortable with wealth redistribution programs and illegal aliens as he is, but I suspect he’ll turn out to be the best ELECTABLE candidate we’ve got. If people want to worship the unelectable ones for philosophical reasons, fine, but when it comes time to vote, the point is to elect the best possible candidate. Pouting about how none of the candidates meet your high standards doesn’t help anything.


85 posted on 04/22/2007 11:57:20 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Jim Robinson; Spiff
Great stuff. Credit to Spiff for the chart and someone (flashbunny?) for putting this together.


86 posted on 04/22/2007 11:58:39 PM PDT by NapkinUser (Rudy Giuliani gets his salsa from New York City.)
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To: genghis
" but because he is one of us "

Only if you're an abortionist, cross-dressing, gun grabbing liberal.

Is your post a sick joke or what? Surely, you're not that stoopid.

87 posted on 04/22/2007 11:59:45 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: NapkinUser; Spiff; flashbunny

Thanks. I wasn’t sure.


88 posted on 04/23/2007 12:02:50 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: genghis

“Rudy drove libs crazy when he was mayor.”

My brother lived in NY before and during the Rudy years. He’s in awe of what Rudy accomplished.

Rudy is a doer, not an ideologue who does nothing themselves but whine and blame others and try to destroy Republicans.

The big thinkinkers’ effort to destroy Republican senators in 2006 gave us the mess in the senate now.


89 posted on 04/23/2007 12:03:32 AM PDT by tkathy
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To: All

I disagree with Rudy on many points, but rather than speak ill of Rudy, I had much rather tell everyone what a great choice Duncan Hunter is :) I know, I know he can’t possibly win, can’t beat the pantsuit or the empty suit, heard it all before.
Rudy is on top now for no other reason imo than marketing and name recognition, and if that is what we have been reduced to, the hell with it all, anyway. I would also remind everyone about the exit polls in the last elction for POTUS and how Senator Lurch was already being anointed King. The immigration issue is being overlooked and the candidate who takes up a strong position is going to be formidable, and if the pantsuit feigns a strong position on immigration before other candidates, prepare for the shrillest 4 years on record.
Also in reference to states like Ohio, Michigan, NJ; If you think those watching the manufacturing jobs there go adios won’t gravitate towards Hunter and his fair trade, return jobs to the USA position, you may have another think coming.


90 posted on 04/23/2007 12:04:19 AM PDT by WildcatClan
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To: GovernmentShrinker
Having some friends who turn out to be dishonest doesn’t make you dishonest.

Maybe not. But hiring them for important high profile jobs makes you stupid.

L

91 posted on 04/23/2007 12:05:20 AM PDT by Lurker (Comparing 'moderate' islam to 'extremist' islam is like comparing small pox to plague.)
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To: Lurker
LOLOLOL! THAT has to be one of the most hilarious posts I've ever read on FR. I'm one of those who was wiping the tears away as I read it. You really outdid yourself, FRiend. ;o)
92 posted on 04/23/2007 12:19:50 AM PDT by NRA2BFree (DUNCAN HUNTER FOR PRESIDENT IN 2008! HE IS A TRUE CONSERVATIVE!!)
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To: tkathy

New Yorkers lived through 4 years of Mayor David Dinkins, before Giuliani narrowly defeated him the second time the two ran against each other. Compared to Dinkins, Giuliani looks like an arch-conservative, and he did an impressive job of improving NYC on the heels of Dinkins’ disastrous muddle-headed criminal-friendly socialist administration. That’s what’s at the root of a lot of the Giuliani support from New Yorkers. He’s far from ideal, but a lot of New Yorkers remember how narrowly Dinkins defeated Giuliani in their first head-to-head, and realize that the disaster of the Dinkins years could probably have been completely avoided, but for a small contingent of “conservatives” either voting for third party candidates or staying home. I’m not particularly interested in stumping for Rudy at the primary level, but if I’m faced with a Rudy or Hillary choice in the general election, picking Rudy is a no-brainer.


93 posted on 04/23/2007 12:20:27 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Jim Robinson

Good work gentlemen.

And thank you Jim for starting to put a handle on this ridiculous business of conservative being a dirty word amongst some.


94 posted on 04/23/2007 12:25:21 AM PDT by kenth (I got tired of my last tagline...)
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To: NRA2BFree
It's not really that I'm so gosh darned clever, although I'll hasten to add that I am, it's just that AZR made it so gosh darned easy.

Best,

L

95 posted on 04/23/2007 12:28:11 AM PDT by Lurker (Comparing 'moderate' islam to 'extremist' islam is like comparing small pox to plague.)
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To: monkapotamus
I saw this guy while playing a game called Land of the Dead. Is it just me, or is he the spitting image?

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

I call him "Rudy Giulizombie."
96 posted on 04/23/2007 12:34:26 AM PDT by Rastus
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To: Rastus
You're right.


97 posted on 04/23/2007 12:42:22 AM PDT by monkapotamus
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To: Lurker
It's not really that I'm so gosh darned clever, although I'll hasten to add that I am, it's just that AZR made it so gosh darned easy.

Don't sell yourself short. That was great! In fact, it was pretty doggoned clever. I was laying here almost asleep, until I started reading what you wrote, and I got to laughing so hard it really woke up. Now, I'll probably be awake for a long time.....giggling about what you said. LOL I know better than to go on FR when I go to bed. This is what usually happens and then I can't get to sleep. ;o)

98 posted on 04/23/2007 12:49:19 AM PDT by NRA2BFree (DUNCAN HUNTER FOR PRESIDENT IN 2008! HE IS A TRUE CONSERVATIVE!!)
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To: AZRepublican
You really, really do not get it.

The evidence of Rudy's liberalism is sitting right there in front of you like a centerfold spread.

99 posted on 04/23/2007 12:56:12 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Ben Franklin, we tried but we couldn't keep it.)
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To: NRA2BFree
You have my apologies for being responsible for your sleepless night.

But then I've been responsible for many a lovely ladys sleepless night....

L

100 posted on 04/23/2007 12:57:37 AM PDT by Lurker (Comparing 'moderate' islam to 'extremist' islam is like comparing small pox to plague.)
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