Giuliani as the GOP presidential nominee would be a dagger in the heart of the conservative movement

(From a thread) | Credit to Spiff for the chart and flashbunny for the grapics

[gonewt]

I refuse to even entertain the thought of him gaining the nomination.

Given his poll numbers at this time, you might want to "entertain" it.

I'm not arguing pro-Rudy. But if he wins the nomination you have to look carefully at the VERY REAL threat of "President Hillary." I've said it before & I'll say it again. I'd vote for a trained chimpanzee to keep Hillary out of the White House.

[upsdriver]

“No conservative of any stripe, true or not, should support Giuliani. His liberal candidacy would make the GOP and all it stands for a laughing stock. Conservatism would be disgraced. The conservative cause would be dead.”

That about sums it up. I would lose my political home. I have no idea what I would do then. It saddens me to even think of that prospect. And any hope we ever had to save babies from being aborted would go right out the window. I pray that this doesn’t happen.

[Spiff]

Actually, you're using a slightly older version of the chart. That's because B4Ranch is using a slightly outdated version in the posting he made in the long thread yesterday. Here's the most current version. The main thing that changed was Hillary Clinton's position on the War in Iraq. She's made a couple of statements and votes since I first made the chart that has altered her position a bit.

Giuliani/Clinton/Dem vs. GOP Platform Comparison
Issue	Giuliani	Clinton	Dem Platform	GOP Platform
Abortion on Demand	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Partial Birth Abortion	Supports Opposed NY ban	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Overturning Roe v. Wade	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Taxpayer Funded Abortions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Embryonic Stem Cell Research	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Federal Marriage Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Defined at state level	Supports
Gay Domestic Partnership/ Civil Unions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Openly Gay Military	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Defense of Marriage Act	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Amnesty for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Special Path to Citizenship for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Tough Penalties for Employers of Illegal Aliens	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Sanctuary Cities/ Ignoring Immigration Law	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Protecting 2nd Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Supports bans	Supports
Confiscating Guns	Supports Confiscated as mayor. Even bragged.	Supports	Supports Supports bans	Opposes
'Assault' Weapons Ban	Supports	Supports	Supports
Frivolous Lawsuits Against Gun Makers	Supports Filed One Himself	Supports		Opposes
Gun Registration/Licenses	Supports	Supports		Opposes
War in Afghanistan	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports	Supports
War in Iraq	Supports	Varies Voted for it	Supports Weak support	Supports
Patriot Act	Supports	Supports Voted for it 2001 & 2006	Opposes	Supports

"Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine." - Rudy Giuliani

[processing please hold]

Never give up, never surrender, never rudy.

[upsdriver]

“And you can bet that Rudy will blame “the far right” when he announces his withdrawal from the race. The people who are supporting him are your garden variety GOP activists and others who only know Rudy through 9/11.”

I don’t care who he blames, just having him pull out is good enough for me!! Those in the party who are supporting him are all doing so for their own selfish interests. They are not the movement conservatives but are looking for their own positions of power or money or both. So what if a few million more babies get slaughtered in the process.

[Spiff]

Giuliani would better serve America in New Orleans or Miami, but it’d take Conservatives at least a decade to over the damage Giuliani would inflict if he were put in Washington.

A decade!? Heck, it will probably take conservatives a decade to just recover from all the stuff that Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress did to use for the last 8 years. Giuliani would set back conservatism almost 3 decades. Giuliani with a Democrat-controlled Congress would probably kill modern conservatism.

[Spiff]

Lets face it, to sell Rudy one has to browbeat, skip over the parts of Rudys record, and become a disingenuous spinmeister.

You've misspelled "disingenuous spinmeister". The correct spelling is "Deroy Murdoch".

[upsdriver]

I won’t!

[BlackbirdSST]

Am I the first to say?, He’s dead Jim. Blackbird.

[dforest]

You've misspelled "disingenuous spinmeister". The correct spelling is "Deroy Murdoch".

You know, I mentioned to a Rudroid that Deroy's daddy Rupert has said he really liked Hillary and it is known that he has contributed to her.

So could it be that Deroy is pushing Rooty as the candidate so hard, because the Murdocks really want Hillary to win?

I never did get a response to that.

[af_vet_rr]

In case you don't know some of those Liberals in FReepers clothing have been zotted in the last couple of days.

Good. I'm concerned that we are at a point where the only difference between the Democrats and some Republicans (including President Bush, some in his staff, and some Republicans in Congress) is that what the Democrats want and what the Republicans want are the same thing and separated only by time. The Democrats would have us at a certain place within 10 years, the Republicans would have us at the same place within 20-30. In the end, we are still screwed.

More importantly, the direction we are headed, while it may not impact you or I now, it will impact our grandchildren and their grandchildren.

I look at it as I'm not voting for myself, I'm voting for my grandchildren.

[Beagle8U]

I’m sure you can find some quotes in this link to make a great RINO Rudy trading card on Illegals. PS..All of it is in his own words, sourced and dated.

http://www.ibisnetwork.com/giuliani/text/immkenn.html

“Many don’t speak English, or speak it haltingly.(snip)..But the fact is, their children often out-perform native-born students...”

“So illegal and undocumented immigrants are going to remain, and even increase. And nothing that is now being proposed in Washington would realistically change that very much.”

” Section 434 of the federal welfare reform law, and Section 642 of the new immigration law, violate the Tenth Amendment.”

“Most likely, the federal government will reply that controlling immigration is one of their core functions. But this is a disingenuous argument.”

“”Executive Order 124” is not only bad policy, it is a violation of the U.S. Constitution. It is my opinion that the new law is unfair because discriminates based on immigration status.”

( Its a gold mine and lays out his position on illegals that any RAT politician would envy)

[kenth]

Too, the only states he would make competitive are the ones that should be solidly GOP.

[kevkrom]

And you can bet that Rudy will blame “the far right” when he announces his withdrawal from the race.

Absolutely. This is why I say that Guiliani is the media's "dream candidate" for the GOP. It's a win/win scenario for them.

Case #1: Guiliani loses the GOP primary. In this scenario, the media (much like some recently banned posters here) gets to portray the GOP base as a bunch of "right-wing zealots" who destroyed the candidacy of "America's mayor" because of a few "minor" issues o disagreement. Not the media's preferred case, but a minor "win" for them anyway.

Case #2: Guiliani wins the GOP primary, but loses the general election. This is the media's preferred scenario. Here, the media gets to gleefully point out for weeks on end how the conservative influence in the GOP is effectively over -- all anyone need do is toss them some insincere platitudes and provide a credible "bogeyman" in the opposition, and the formerly powerful right wing of the party will follow like sheep. Plus, they get to unload with all of the anti-Guiliani ammo they have saved up (getting some negatives out now so they can claim "old news" during the GOP primary, but will suddenly find them relevant again in the general election). A possible bonus may be a long-term defection from the GOP by conservatives.

Case #3: Guiliani wins the general election. If the media has to live with any Republican winning, it might as well be Guiliani. He's certainly not going to betray their core principles of pro-abortion and anti-gun ownership. Plus, he's "colorful" enough to provide for four years of good stories about his latest gaffe.

[Beagle8U]

“I don’t care who he blames, just having him pull out is good enough for me!!”

Blame me Rooty..Blame me! I would be honored to be blamed personally.

[upsdriver]

LOL!! Same here!!

[Beagle8U]

In truth Jim and FreeRepublic should bet the credit.

[Beagle8U]

* GET the credit...lol

[upsdriver]

Well, sure, if you’re talking about credit!! I thought we were talking about blame!

I always get blamed for things, never any credit!lol

[Old_Mil]

While I agree with your assessment of Mayor Giuliani, his nomination will be a dagger in the heart of the Republican Party, not the conservative movement.

[Designer II]

AZR said: "..if chances are..conservative justice appointed to the court.."

Dear AZR; here is where you have missed something very important to our Republican form of government.

The fate and the morals of our nation should not hinge on who is sitting on the Bench.

If we had a Congress with some "sack" as one writer put it, they would make sure that the Supreme Court was not trying to legislate from the Bench.

As it is, our linguinie-spined Congress has not, and apparently will not do the job they were sent to Washington to do.

It is with your own Congressman you need to reconcile your values.

[gpapa]

AZR is no longer here. Forget about him.

[Designer II]

"..Land of the Dead. Is it just me, or is he the spitting image?"

I think he looks like Carville to me.

[af_vet_rr]

A decade!? Heck, it will probably take conservatives a decade to just recover from all the stuff that Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress did to use for the last 8 years. Giuliani would set back conservatism almost 3 decades. Giuliani with a Democrat-controlled Congress would probably kill modern conservatism.

You're looking at a lot longer than that to undo just what Bush has done. I hate to think what happens if he gets his amnesty "guest worker" stuff pushed through, and considering it's a Democrat Congress, he probably will.

[Beagle8U]

“I always get blamed for things, never any credit!lol”

Rooty and his liberal Bots will lay blame, Conservatives will give credit.

[arthurus]

Here.....Here....!

Properly, that's "Hear! Hear!" It is a shorthand exhortation to Listen to Wisdom!

[jpsb]

"There, quite simply, would no longer be a connection between conservatives and the GOP"

Very true, W has killed the GOP, who cares who the GOP nominates, however it is will be a globalist, anti-american elite anyway.

[babygene]

“His personal views should not be a barrier in allowing a liberal an easy walk into the WH.”

That statement doesn’t make sense. I see him as to the left of some of the dems...

[babygene]

“even if they WERE identical on their stated positions on all issues, I’d take the honest one over the dishonest one in a second.”

That’s crazy talk... You’d take someone who was evil with conviction over someone who would govern by polling?

[babygene]

“Thompson voted YES on allowing more foreign workers into the US for farm work.”

Legal immigrant farm workers are not and have not been the problem...

[flashbunny]

I just bookmarked that link last night while reading the big rudy thread from this weekend. I have a couple more cards to put together when I can find the time.

[azhenfud]

I agree - I was just being conservative.....;-)

[Beagle8U]

OK, I just wanted you to get the full speech because I knew that has all the quotes that are often used in articles.

[dirtboy]

I thought he said recently Roe was bad law?

That was Fred. Rudy sees public funding of abortion as a Constitutional right.

[Delphinium]

Let’s see what positions he takes for the executive office. If he is serious about strict constructionists on the supreme court then he is a very viable choice for any conservative.

Excuse me, but that is not a truth about Rudy. He is not serious. Everything about him shows you he is no friend to conservatives. He said he liked Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Go back and read her comments on the court upfolding the ban on partial birth abortion.

[Delphinium]

Who do you support Jim? Did I miss it in the last thread?

What difference does it make who he supports, this is about who he and no respecting Republican should support.

Most of us can get behind the other candidates after the primary, but Rudy is an imposter and needs to be stopped.

[SandyInSeattle]

Nice chart. Do you have one that shows where all the other candidates stand on those issues?

[colorcountry]

What difference does it make who he supports, this is about who he and no respecting Republican should support.

Most of us can get behind the other candidates after the primary, but Rudy is an imposter and needs to be stopped.

Did I do something wrong? I'm sorry if I asked and innappropriate question. People ask me all the time whom I support. I tell them Duncan Hunter.

By your reasoning, I cannot prefer pepsi, but I CAN dislike coke....What difference does it make what I like, I am only able to tell you what I dislike?

[Politicalmom]

Especially since Giuliani’s California spokesman is BILL LOCKYER, notorious leftist Dem gun-grabber.

[SandyInSeattle]

Thompson voted YES on allowing more foreign workers into the US for farm work...to create a national registry containing names of U.S. workers who want to perform temporary or seasonal agricultural work...to require the Attorney General to allow more foreign workers into the U.S. for farm work under H-2A visas... on visas for skilled workers.

I see no problem with that.

[Carry_Okie]

Especially since Giuliani’s California spokesman is BILL LOCKYER, notorious leftist Dem gun-grabber.

Didn't know that, thank you.

This is a perfect indication that Rudy has no intention of changing his stripes. Neither will he respect the Second Amendment nor will he avoid corrupt leftist political associations.

[Delphinium]

Remember this one, probably the most offensive thing from Rudy and still some defended him rabidly. Some defended Margaret Sanger rabidly. :

Archives of Rudolph W. Giuliani, 107th Mayor

Opening Remarks to the N.A.R.A.L. "Champions of Choice" Lunch

The Yale Club, Thursday, April 5th, 2001

Thank you very much for inviting me to say a few words of welcome. This event shows that people of different political parties and different political thinking can unite in support of choice. In doing so, we are upholding a distinguished tradition that began in our city starting with the work of Margaret Sanger and the movement for reproductive freedom that began in the early decades of the 20th century.

As a Republican who supports a woman's right to choose, it is particularly an honor to be here. And I would like to explain, just for one moment, why I believe being in favor of choice is consistent with the philosophy of the Republican Party. In fact, it might be more consistent with the philosophy of the Republican Party. Because the Republican Party stands for the idea that you have to restore more freedom of choice...

These are a few quotes from Sanger:

"The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it." Margaret Sanger, Women and the New Race (Eugenics Publ. Co., 1920, 1923)

Margaret Sanger (1883-1966) On blacks, immigrants and indigents: "...human weeds,' 'reckless breeders,' 'spawning... human beings who never should have been born." Margaret Sanger, Pivot of Civilization, referring to immigrants and poor people

On sterilization & racial purification: Sanger believed that, for the purpose of racial "purification," couples should be rewarded who chose sterilization. Birth Control in America, The Career of Margaret Sanger, by David Kennedy, p. 117, quoting a 1923 Sanger speech.

On the purpose of birth control: The purpose in promoting birth control was "to create a race of thoroughbreds," she wrote in the Birth Control Review, Nov. 1921 (p. 2)

On the rights of the handicapped and mentally ill, and racial minorities: "More children from the fit, less from the unfit -- that is the chief aim of birth control." Birth Control Review, May 1919, p. 12

On the extermination of blacks: "We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population," she said, "if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members." Woman's Body, Woman's Right: A Social History of Birth Control in America, by Linda Gordon

On adultery: A woman's physical satisfaction was more important than any marriage vow, Sanger believed. Birth Control in America, p. 11

On marital sex: "The marriage bed is the most degenerating influence in the social order," Sanger said. (p. 23

[Delphinium]

I wasn't trying to be rude, just commenting.

Sure you can prefer, I prefer Duncan Hunter and don't like Romney but this is different.

I was just saying we all need to put our Republican differences aside and ban together against an imposter like Rudy. That is more important than debating our different Republican candidates.

[upsdriver]

I remember you posting that before!! Thanks for the reminder. I had no idea who Sanger was until you told me and I did research on her. What a miserable b*tch she must have been. And Guilianni praising her. ugh

[Graybeard58]

I always get blamed for things, never any credit!

You're probably the one responsible for my missing extension cord.

It's 100 feet long and bright orange. How the heck does one lose something like that?

Bring it back, no questions asked.

[upsdriver]

LOL!! I have one hanging in my garage! I wondered how that got there.

I would Fedex it to you, but they would probably lose it.

[AuntB]

Legal immigrant farm workers are not and have not been the problem...

Shall we go on a search for all the 'legal farm workers' who have killed American citizens? No problem???

Then we have green card holders growing dope with MS13 in our national forests and parks. It's interesting that you see that as 'no problem'.

GAngland

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin030205.php3

Green Cards and Gangs

http://towncriernews.blogspot.com/2005/10/3-million-have-overstayed-their-visas.html

[babygene]

We have always had legal immigration in this country, and it has been largely positive.

If they overstay their visa, they are not legal...

Are you against legal immigration?

[Delphinium]

You're probably the one responsible for my missing extension cord.

And I'd like the camera cord I can't find back too:)

[streetpreacher]

Hope the mods don’t yank this thread...