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US gender pay gap emerges early, study finds
Reuters ^ | 04/23/07 | Ellen Wulfhorst

Posted on 04/23/2007 6:58:28 AM PDT by presidio9

A dramatic pay gap emerges between women and men in America the year after they graduate from college and widens over the ensuing decade, according to research released on Monday.

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One year out of college, women working full time earn 80 percent of what men earn, according to the study by the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation, based in Washington D.C.

Ten years later, women earn 69 percent as much as men earn, it said.

Even as the study accounted for such factors as the number of hours worked, occupations or parenthood, the gap persisted, researchers said.

"If a woman and a man make the same choices, will they receive the same pay?" the study asked. "The answer is no.

"These unexplained gaps are evidence of discrimination, which remains a serious problem for women in the work force," it said.

Specifically, about one-quarter of the pay gap is attributable to gender -- 5 percent one year after graduation and 12 percent 10 years after graduation, it said.

One year out of college, men and women should arguably be the least likely to show a gender pay gap, the study said, since neither tend to be parents yet and they enter the work force without significant experience.

"It surprised me that it was already apparent one year out of college, and that it widens over the first 10 years," Catherine Hill, AAUW director of research, told Reuters.

Among factors found to make a difference in pay, the choice of fields of concentration in college were significant, the study found. Female students tended to study areas with lower pay, such as education, health and psychology, while male students dominated higher-paying fields such as engineering, mathematics and physical sciences, it said.

Even so, one year after graduation, a pay gap turned up between women and men who studied the same fields.

In education, women earn 95 percent as much as their male colleagues earn, while in math, women earn 76 percent as much as men earn, the study showed.

While in college, the study showed, women outperformed men academically, and their grade point averages were higher in every college major.

Parenthood affected men and women in vividly different ways. The study showed mothers more likely than fathers, or other women, to work part time or take leaves.

Among women who graduated from college in 1992-93, more than one-fifth of mothers were out of the work force a decade later, and another 17 percent were working part time, it said.

In the same class, less than 2 percent of fathers were out of the work force in 2003, and less than 2 percent were working part time, it said.

The study, entitled "Behind the Pay Gap," used data from the U.S. Department of Education. It analyzed some 9,000 college graduates from 1992-93 and more than 10,000 from 1999-2000.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: aauw; misogynists
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1 posted on 04/23/2007 6:58:29 AM PDT by presidio9
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To: presidio9

Parenthood affected men and women in vividly different ways.

Procreation and childbirth do as well. It’s almost as if the sexes were designed for different purposes.


2 posted on 04/23/2007 7:03:00 AM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Duncan Hunter '08 Pro family, pro life, pro second Amendment, not a control freak.)
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To: presidio9

You know, maybe women are just different from men in their goals and ambitions. Why do we have to assume it is some kind of discrimination?


3 posted on 04/23/2007 7:03:32 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: presidio9
While in college, the study showed, women outperformed men academically, and their grade point averages were higher in every college major.

This seems unlikely to me. In every major, women have higher grades than men? Engineering? Mathematics? This would refute any number of studies that show, in general, better performance of men in math and fields with heavy dependance on spatial relationships.

4 posted on 04/23/2007 7:05:15 AM PDT by pepsi_junkie (Often wrong, but never in doubt!)
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To: presidio9
One year out of college, women working full time earn 80 percent of what men earn, according to the study by the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation, based in Washington D.C.

Hmmmm, I wonder if a study conducted by the Cato Institute, or the Heritage Foundation, using the same exact data would have reached the same conclusions. It seemed to me as I read the article that even though the study found significant other factors that contributed to the "gap" it discounted those factors and concluded that the data gives conclusive proof of discrimination.

5 posted on 04/23/2007 7:05:19 AM PDT by VRWCmember (Go Rudy Go! (And take McCain with you!))
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To: presidio9

I’m an employer. Multiple companies in multiple states nationwide.

I’ve never once even considered a lower pay scale for women, and most of the staff in the companies are in fact female, as I sit and think about this.

I’ve never seen a situation where a woman isn’t paid the same money for the same job as a male, I only read about it in articles like this.

Which causes me to wonder if its real, or just PC coming out.


6 posted on 04/23/2007 7:06:20 AM PDT by Badeye (Like it or not, we live in a time when Hero's are required.)
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To: Always Right
Why do we have to assume it is some kind of discrimination?

So the professional whiners can get on TV and to keep the grant money flowing.

7 posted on 04/23/2007 7:08:04 AM PDT by freespirited
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To: Wuli

ping


8 posted on 04/23/2007 7:10:44 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Badeye

This is the second story I’ve seen on this in several days.

It’s the beginning of the new push to ratify the ERA.


9 posted on 04/23/2007 7:12:14 AM PDT by I still care ("Remember... for it is the doom of men that they forget" - Merlin, from Excalibur)
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To: freespirited; VRWCmember; Badeye; pepsi_junkie

Early this year, Hillary ran this cause up the flag poll as a potential major campaign topic, and even liberal women had a hard time getting excited about it, because it’s simply no longer an issue. It would have been as if Obama ran as an abolitionist candidate.


10 posted on 04/23/2007 7:12:37 AM PDT by presidio9 (Suspended for posting an article about Scalia and Arthur Miller arguing at SCOTUS. Seriously.)
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To: VRWCmember
Hmmmm, I wonder if a study conducted by the Cato Institute, or the Heritage Foundation, using the same exact data would have reached the same conclusions.

I'm not going to say because I havent seen it. But this group is hard to beat for biased, agenda-driven work. Check out this critique of their famed fantasy, How Schools Shortchange Girls.

http://www.uaf.edu/northern/schools/myth.html

11 posted on 04/23/2007 7:14:45 AM PDT by freespirited
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To: presidio9

Y..A...W...N


12 posted on 04/23/2007 7:14:49 AM PDT by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, DUNCAN 08, ELECTION 2008, MOST IMPORTANT OF MY LIFE TIME)
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To: presidio9

Same tired old arguments. This can’t be true, otherwise there would be no men in the workplace. My old company managers would sell their own children to shave 1/10th of a percent off the bottom line....imagine what they’d do to save 10-30%!


13 posted on 04/23/2007 7:15:20 AM PDT by wbill
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To: presidio9
The public education system's war against boys has been so successful that 60% of college graduates are now women.

Given that fact, the law of supply-and-demand explains the income gap between male and female college graduates; the scarcer resource commands a higher price.

14 posted on 04/23/2007 7:15:31 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Muslims reserve the right to kill anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: pepsi_junkie
This study is meaningless without comparing job types.

If you do the comparison within a given field and adjust for experience missed due to child-rearing, I would guess the disparity disappears.

What they're saying is that women who do easy office work should be paid as much as union construction workers or engineers.

Please cue the Internationale.

15 posted on 04/23/2007 7:16:36 AM PDT by pierrem15 (Charles Martel: past and future of France)
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To: I still care

This is the second story I’ve seen on this in several days.

It’s the beginning of the new push to ratify the ERA.

Hmmm. Gotta admit, I didn’t even consider that aspect, thanks for pointing it out.

It makes sense.


16 posted on 04/23/2007 7:16:44 AM PDT by Badeye (Like it or not, we live in a time when Hero's are required.)
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To: presidio9

“Early this year, Hillary ran this cause up the flag poll as a potential major campaign topic, and even liberal women had a hard time getting excited about it, because it’s simply no longer an issue”

Good point.


17 posted on 04/23/2007 7:17:19 AM PDT by Badeye (Like it or not, we live in a time when Hero's are required.)
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To: I still care
It’s the beginning of the new push to ratify the ERA.

Bingo.

18 posted on 04/23/2007 7:17:46 AM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: Badeye

Your real-life experience is precisely the truth. I have NEVER seen even one example of gender-based wage differences. I have worked in computers for over 30 years, and the pay scales are identical, as adjusted for individual experience. Not only that, every government installation must as a matter of law and policy have identical scales. This whole thing sounds like feminist propaganda. If some women prefer to go into fields other than those that have identical pay for productivity, that is no concern of mine.


19 posted on 04/23/2007 7:18:50 AM PDT by wildandcrazyrussian
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To: pierrem15
If you do the comparison within a given field and adjust for experience missed due to child-rearing, I would guess the disparity disappears.

John Stossell (I think) wrote about this not long ago. You're right, it becomes statistically insignificant...

20 posted on 04/23/2007 7:19:48 AM PDT by wbill
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To: Badeye

I experienced this first-hand just as this article says. I became a programmer right out of college (mainframes) in 1979, and I was paid significantly less than my male colleagues with the exact same experience and background.

I can certainly understand the pay gap years later after women spend time out of the work force, but right out of college it should not exist. Granted, it’s anecdotal, my experience was some years ago and I have no pay disparity issues now, but I was by no means the only woman so affected. I wasn’t even married at the time. My best friend was passed over for promotion a half-dozen times by male colleagues with less experience and fewer skills, until she finally left for a friendlier company.

It seems to me to be more of a corporate thing rather than a small business problem. Small businesses appreciate talent more than personality - again, anecdotal.


21 posted on 04/23/2007 7:25:14 AM PDT by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: Wuli
Among factors found to make a difference in pay, the choice of fields of concentration in college were significant, the study found. Female students tended to study areas with lower pay , such as education, health and psychology, while male students dominated higher-paying fields such as engineering, mathematics and physical sciences, it said. Surprise. Surprise.
22 posted on 04/23/2007 7:25:41 AM PDT by PrincessB ("I am an expert on my own opinion." - Dave Ramsey)
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To: wildandcrazyrussian

Ping to post #21


23 posted on 04/23/2007 7:26:32 AM PDT by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: presidio9

Operative word is “earn”. In three different factories, it’s almost always been men who half-kill themselves scrounging for all the overtime they can get, and it’s been men who volunteer for the special installation and start-up projects with hard deadlines. Many of my coworkers, through the years, have been warned that they were bumping up against internal “maximum work hours allowed” rules, and ordered to take a day off. None of those so warned were female.


24 posted on 04/23/2007 7:31:51 AM PDT by flowerplough
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To: presidio9

One of the reasons I joined the Navy was to be paid the same as men. And I was. Women tend to choose fields where the pay is lower and they spend less time in the workforce due to childrearing. These are CHOICES women make. There is no conspiracy to pay women less. Once again, the liberals are pointing out a “problem” which doesn’t exist.


25 posted on 04/23/2007 7:35:37 AM PDT by LadyNavyVet
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To: wildandcrazyrussian

Your real-life experience is precisely the truth. I have NEVER seen even one example of gender-based wage differences. I have worked in computers for over 30 years, and the pay scales are identical, as adjusted for individual experience. Not only that, every government installation must as a matter of law and policy have identical scales. This whole thing sounds like feminist propaganda. If some women prefer to go into fields other than those that have identical pay for productivity, that is no concern of mine.

Same background my wife has, with the same resulting equal pay.


26 posted on 04/23/2007 7:37:04 AM PDT by Badeye (Like it or not, we live in a time when Hero's are required.)
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To: cinives

“It seems to me to be more of a corporate thing rather than a small business problem. Small businesses appreciate talent more than personality - again, anecdotal.”

My wife had similiar experiences in the late 1970’s, but that pretty much ended by the mid to late 1990’s. No disputing it was the case ‘back then’.

I just don’t see anything to support thats the way things are Today.

Maybe its because I’m a small business owner, and can’t afford to lose high quality staff over something so ridiculous.


27 posted on 04/23/2007 7:39:14 AM PDT by Badeye (Like it or not, we live in a time when Hero's are required.)
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To: Badeye; I still care

Isn’t it also coming up on “Take your kids to work day”???? (Used to be Take your Daughter to work day) Seems they trot this out at that time of the year also...and I think it’s in May....I wrote an op-ed on it once....


28 posted on 04/23/2007 7:40:58 AM PDT by goodnesswins (We need to cure Academentia)
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To: cinives
I can see that happening in a male-dominated workforce like IT, particularly 25-30 years ago when it was looked at as something next to witchcraft, and not at all understood by company execs.

Most of the teams that I've been on have been disproportionately male. The women on them have been very, very smart and even more meticulous - IMHO, because they needed to be in order to keep up with the guys. To clarify that statement... I haven't worked with *any* women (yet) that have been either willing or able to pull the incredibly long hours, travel, and frankly, BS, that the job sometimes demands - If I make a mistake, I may work all night to fix it. The women on my teams, as a rule, don't make mistakes and don't put themselves in positions like that. To quote Dilbert, they "Work Smarter, not Harder."

I've no idea about pay, from what little idle office gossip I've picked up, I'd say that it's competitive. When I was a manager of a PC team, I know for certain that the jobs paid the same irregardless.

Where my complaint with studies like this comes from is that they're non-specific. If, for instance 1000 IT staffers (mostly male) were compared with 1000 Day Care Workers (mostly female)...the pay discrepancies would be huge, I'm sure. Comparing 1000 male IT workers, with 1000 female IT workers, would lower the discrepancy, I would think.

29 posted on 04/23/2007 7:46:41 AM PDT by wbill
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To: presidio9
It's a Reuter's story too...

30 posted on 04/23/2007 7:49:07 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: presidio9
The study is here for those who want to dissect the propaganda.

A few point about this "study":

Even the study admits that "women expect less and negotiate less pay for themselves than do men." -and- "Individual differences in negotiating skills may lead to pay variation among workers with similar skill sets." -and- "More women than men choose noncompetetive pay schemes over tournament (where a winner gets a prize and a loser gets nothing) or competition rates of payment for a task."

There's also this graph which seems to assert that the percentage of bachelor degree recipients who are married with children has skyrocketed in nine years to around 4 or 5 times the percentage before. Yeah, right.


31 posted on 04/23/2007 7:53:56 AM PDT by SeafoodGumbo
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To: cinives
Also, kudos to you for jumping into the IT field in the late 70s. I bet that you've got some good geek stories to tell. :-)

I've been playing with computers for almost that long...nothing like mainframes though. I got a TI99/4a Home Computer (you know, the ones that plugged into your PC) when I was a kid, and I haven't stopped since then.

32 posted on 04/23/2007 7:55:41 AM PDT by wbill
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To: cinives

How old are you?


33 posted on 04/23/2007 7:56:42 AM PDT by presidio9 (Suspended for posting an article about Scalia and Arthur Miller arguing at SCOTUS. Seriously.)
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To: wbill

PC=TV. Nothing like PCs back then. LOL!


34 posted on 04/23/2007 7:56:50 AM PDT by wbill
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To: Badeye

If you can in fact get away with paying women less, wouldn’t you as an employer choose to hire ONLY women? Think of the savings!


35 posted on 04/23/2007 7:58:00 AM PDT by Xenalyte ("A cat can give birth to kittens in the oven. That don't make 'em biscuits." - Quanell X)
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To: Badeye

You have to remember what the study is not saying. They are not saying it was for the same jobs. So they are comparing comparing apples and oranges and making a conclussion about them.


36 posted on 04/23/2007 7:58:04 AM PDT by pas
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To: wbill
I haven't worked with *any* women (yet) that have been either willing or able to pull the incredibly long hours, travel, and frankly, BS, that the job sometimes demands - If I make a mistake, I may work all night to fix it. The women on my teams, as a rule, don't make mistakes and don't put themselves in positions like that.

If your team women don't make mistakes, how can you judge them unwilling to stay and fix mistakes? They haven't had the opportunity yet.
37 posted on 04/23/2007 8:00:38 AM PDT by Xenalyte ("A cat can give birth to kittens in the oven. That don't make 'em biscuits." - Quanell X)
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To: wbill; cinives


Y'all will love this book. It's a great look back at the "good old days" it sounds like you lived!
38 posted on 04/23/2007 8:01:55 AM PDT by Xenalyte ("A cat can give birth to kittens in the oven. That don't make 'em biscuits." - Quanell X)
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To: presidio9
More women work for non-profits.



Women work significantly fewer hours.


39 posted on 04/23/2007 8:03:00 AM PDT by SeafoodGumbo
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To: SeafoodGumbo

I have a neice who is one of the brightest people I know, Scored top of the charts in all tests, graduated first in her class, state sience fair champion. She is now in college. Is she studying science, engineering or medicine? No! She is majoring in art and languages! Incredible waste of talent in my opinion.


40 posted on 04/23/2007 8:03:12 AM PDT by catman67 (rough men stand ready to do violence on t)
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To: Xenalyte

“If you can in fact get away with paying women less, wouldn’t you as an employer choose to hire ONLY women? Think of the savings!”

I’ve found you can’t get away with paying good employees less. Gender has nothing to do with it.


41 posted on 04/23/2007 8:03:26 AM PDT by Badeye (Like it or not, we live in a time when Hero's are required.)
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To: pas

You have to remember what the study is not saying. They are not saying it was for the same jobs. So they are comparing comparing apples and oranges and making a conclussion about them.

Good point.


42 posted on 04/23/2007 8:03:52 AM PDT by Badeye (Like it or not, we live in a time when Hero's are required.)
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To: pepsi_junkie
This seems unlikely to me. In every major, women have higher grades than men? Engineering? Mathematics? This would refute any number of studies that show, in general, better performance of men in math and fields with heavy dependance on spatial relationships.

It's been shown previously that there is strong self-segregation even within majors. In social sciences, men tend towards the mathematics-heavy portions, and women towards the more subjective...and so it goes in major after major. A major is still a rather wide area.

43 posted on 04/23/2007 8:04:58 AM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Xenalyte
If your team women don't make mistakes, how can you judge them unwilling to stay and fix mistakes?

Good point. Perhaps it would have been more accurate just to say that I have not seen them pull the long hours, travel, etc.

Perhaps they were not asked to either...that's a possibility, too, I suppose. When I was a manager, I was non discriminating - if a problem happened in your area, it was your job to fix it. About the only allowance that I made for gender was "muscle power"...there was one girl on hy team who was fairly small and I always made sure that she didn't get stuck unloading pallets of PCs by herself. Of course, I generally made sure that no one had to do it by themselves, but I'll readily admit that I paid more attention when it happened on her watch.

44 posted on 04/23/2007 8:08:09 AM PDT by wbill
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To: Badeye
I’m an employer. Multiple companies in multiple states nationwide. I’ve never once even considered a lower pay scale for women, and most of the staff in the companies are in fact female, as I sit and think about this. I’ve never seen a situation where a woman isn’t paid the same money for the same job as a male, I only read about it in articles like this. Which causes me to wonder if its real, or just PC coming out.

These studies are absolute bunk. They lump ALL working men and ALL working women together and come up with their figures.

The fact that a woman working part-time at a day care center making $8 an hour compared with a male engineer making $50 an hour has a bit to do with the wage difference.

The folks who bring us these studies try to overcome that by saying that jobs are "comparable worth". In other words - the file clerk making $30,000 a year is "just as valuable" as the engineer making $90,000 a year.

If you look at SPECIFIC jobs - there is no discrepancy in wages.

Where I work - jobs are paid according to the job classification and level. A person's gender has absolutely nothing to do with it. There aren't separate pay scales for men and women.

If the women gravitate towards the lower paying jobs and the men tend to take the higher paying jobs - so be it. It has nothing to do with wage discrimination. It has everything to do with choices.

45 posted on 04/23/2007 8:10:26 AM PDT by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: Tokra

“It has everything to do with choices.”

Yep.

The only females that work with us that have seen a decrease in pay are those that left, and then came back, for a variety of reasons...most of which you detailed in your post to me.


46 posted on 04/23/2007 8:12:44 AM PDT by Badeye (Like it or not, we live in a time when Hero's are required.)
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To: presidio9
“American Association of University Women Educational Foundation, based in Washington D.C.”

No bias here....

“”If a woman and a man make the same choices, will they receive the same pay?” the study asked. “The answer is no.”

Is the woman’s “output” the same as a man?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

“Among factors found to make a difference in pay, the choice of fields of concentration in college were significant...”

No $hit. What a Brainiac. Who woulda thunk it?

Hmmmmm.

“Female students tended to study areas with lower pay.”

Wow.... no wonder why they earn less...
Hmmmmmmmm.

“Parenthood affected men and women in vividly different ways. The study showed mothers more likely than fathers, or other women, to work part time or take leaves.”

A big honkin’ Mr Mom no kidding!!!

hmm.

“If a woman and a man make the same choices, will they receive the same pay?” the study asked. “The answer is no.”

Well, no where in this article do they provide actual facts that say so.

I sure hope my tax dollars were not used to fund this useless “study”.

47 posted on 04/23/2007 8:17:22 AM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: catman67
I have a neice who is one of the brightest people I know, Scored top of the charts in all tests, graduated first in her class, state sience fair champion. She is now in college. Is she studying science, engineering or medicine? No! She is majoring in art and languages! Incredible waste of talent in my opinion.

I agree with you somewhat, but we should all "follow our passion" as Rush always says. If she's not being pressured by her friends to choose a less-intensive field of study, she might just be choosing what she enjoys. It does seem like a waste of talent, but with her smarts she'll probably rise to the top of even a generally low-paying field and do just fine.

Maybe she'll go to graduate school in a science and use her undergraduate degree in art/language to good effect.
48 posted on 04/23/2007 8:25:03 AM PDT by SeafoodGumbo
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To: cinives
"My best friend was passed over for promotion a half-dozen times by male colleagues with less experience and fewer skills, until she finally left for a friendlier company."

In the late seventies, fairly early in the government EEO drive, I had the same experience in reverse. Each time due to "inadequate education" although I had an MSA and the (3) women were high school grads.

I'm pretty sure that, once regions and differing industries were averaged out over that generation, neither side would have an edge.

(I also noticed that nearly all EEO officers and administrators were both female and hyphenated American. Yes, I did work with the EEO office during those years because, despite the original Affirmative Action laws (and prime contracts) being written around veterans and the handicapped, neither had much voice in the system.)

My problem is that we let the government tell people who they can and cannot hire and then make it near impossible to fire or demote anyone short of finding contraband stuffed in their socks...and even that has failed quite recently.

49 posted on 04/23/2007 8:27:20 AM PDT by norton
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To: presidio9
So other than the incredibly deceiving headline the fact is the “Gender Gap” is 5% for people with the same experience in the same field. Now here is the bigger question; they looked at education, did they look at what class the person was teaching? is it harder to find a physics teacher than an English teacher?
50 posted on 04/23/2007 8:30:31 AM PDT by N3WBI3 (Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak....)
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