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Wiccan symbol OK for soldiers' graves
CNN ^ | April 23, 2007

Posted on 04/23/2007 1:47:44 PM PDT by Zakeet

The Wiccan pentacle has been added to the list of emblems allowed in national cemeteries and on government-issued headstones of fallen soldiers, according to a settlement announced Monday.

A settlement between the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs and Wiccans adds the five-pointed star to the list of "emblems of belief" allowed on VA grave markers.

Eleven families nationwide are waiting for grave markers with the pentacle, said Selena Fox, a Wiccan high priestess with Circle Sanctuary in Barneveld, Wisconsin, a plaintiff in the lawsuit.

The settlement calls for the pentacle, whose five points represent earth, air, fire, water and spirit, to be placed on grave markers within 14 days for those who have pending requests with the VA.

"I am glad this has ended in success in time to get markers for Memorial Day," Fox said.

The VA sought the settlement in the interest of the families involved and to save taxpayers the expense of further litigation, VA spokesman Matt Burns said. The agency also agreed to pay $225,000 in attorneys' fees and costs.

The pentacle has been added to 38 symbols the VA already permits on gravestones. They include commonly recognized symbols for Christianity, Buddhism, Islam and Judaism, as well as those for smaller religions such as Sufism Reoriented, Eckiankar and the Japanese faith Seicho-No-Ie.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: devilworship; goddess; graves; natureworship; pentacle; pentagram; wicca; wiccan
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1 posted on 04/23/2007 1:47:45 PM PDT by Zakeet
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To: Zakeet

Point up, or point down?


2 posted on 04/23/2007 1:49:11 PM PDT by 50sDad (Cultural Diversity means never having to say "I don't fit in.")
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To: 50sDad
Point up, or point down?

Points to where they're going.

3 posted on 04/23/2007 1:50:06 PM PDT by SlowBoat407 (Workers of the world, untie! You have nothing to lose but your shoes!)
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To: Zakeet

God Bless these Brave Men who gave their lives for the Freedom of Our Nation.

Heros.


4 posted on 04/23/2007 1:51:59 PM PDT by trumandogz
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To: 50sDad

Finally. Glad it is settled.


5 posted on 04/23/2007 1:53:12 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer (Senior and Founding Member of Darwin Central)
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To: Zakeet

Good for them. They fought for our country, there’s no reason not to bury them under the symbol of the faith that they’ve chosen.


6 posted on 04/23/2007 1:53:32 PM PDT by Zeroisanumber (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: 50sDad
Wiccan pentacles point up.

But you know what? If you have died in the service of your country I figure you have earned the right to have what ever you want on your tombstone.

7 posted on 04/23/2007 1:56:18 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Mobile phones kill more people than exploding cupboards, ironing boards and Godzilla.)
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To: Zakeet

Whatever they want is fine by me.


8 posted on 04/23/2007 1:56:55 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: Zakeet
Wiccan symbol OK for soldiers' graves

And rightly so.

9 posted on 04/23/2007 1:57:21 PM PDT by Chena (I want a President who will also be tough against liberalism. HONK!!!)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

Amen!


10 posted on 04/23/2007 1:57:22 PM PDT by bnelson44 (http://www.appealforcourage.org)
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To: dead

Whatever they want is fine by me too. I have my own salvation to worry about.


11 posted on 04/23/2007 1:59:04 PM PDT by unkus
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To: Zakeet

bump


12 posted on 04/23/2007 2:00:53 PM PDT by bassmaner (Hey commies: I am a white male, and I am guilty of NOTHING! Sell your 'white guilt' elsewhere.)
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To: Zakeet

The only people who will care are the families and friends of the fallen soldiers. Though I might disagree with their beliefs, I salute their sacrifice to their country.


13 posted on 04/23/2007 2:02:02 PM PDT by reagan_fanatic (I have a big carbon footprint and I'm not afraid to use it.)
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To: Zeroisanumber
Good for them. They fought for our country, there’s no reason not to bury them under the symbol of the faith that they’ve chosen.

Agreed. We should honor their sacrifice in whatever manner their families wish.

14 posted on 04/23/2007 2:03:55 PM PDT by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: SlowBoat407

Point up, or point down?
Points to where they’re going.
____________

LOL. You are the first freeper I have encountered to ever suggest that Wiccans go to heaven (the point is up, btw).

Die for this country, and you have earned the right to put just about anything you want on your headstone.


15 posted on 04/23/2007 2:05:13 PM PDT by dmz
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To: Zakeet
The VA sought the settlement in the interest of the families involved and to save taxpayers the expense of further litigation, VA spokesman Matt Burns said. The agency also agreed to pay $225,000 in attorneys' fees and costs.

VA idiots. This should have been settled a long time ago. If you can put Wiccan on your dog tags, you can have a Wiccan symbol on your headstone.

16 posted on 04/23/2007 2:05:21 PM PDT by GATOR NAVY (Shangri-La is in you mind, but your Buffalo is not.)
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To: Zakeet

Thank God! (Yes, I see the irony here)...


17 posted on 04/23/2007 2:08:21 PM PDT by null and void (The truth. It is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with great caution.)
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To: Zakeet

Why is this a problem? Not all of us bow to Jesus or Allah, you know.


18 posted on 04/23/2007 2:09:30 PM PDT by Clemenza (NO to Rudy in 2008! New York's Values are NOT America's Values! RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: GATOR NAVY
"If you can put Wiccan on your dog tags, you can have a Wiccan symbol on your headstone."

Agreed. If our government allows Wiccans to serve in our military they should be allowed to have their symbol on their headstones.

19 posted on 04/23/2007 2:11:03 PM PDT by blaquebyrd
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To: Zakeet
Finally.

If a man is good enough to die for his country, he deserves to have his faith respected in this one, final gesture.

20 posted on 04/23/2007 2:14:45 PM PDT by Wormwood (Future Former Freeper)
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To: Zakeet
How silly.

The term "Wiccan" is a made-up word, but is supposed to be an "ancient" variant of the word "witch" in Middle English.

So if "Wicca" has any meaning it refers to the pre-Christian pagan beliefs of English.

In that pre-Christian milieu the "pentacle" was not a known symbol.

It was introduced in the south of France in the 1300s by Christians who were playing at alchemy using symbols they found in Hebrew texts - and these symbols were not associated with pagan magic, but with the numerology of Kabbalah.

The symbol has absolutely no ties to the mythical nature paganism that "Wicca" supposedly is.

21 posted on 04/23/2007 2:15:12 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

Hmmmm, I’m sure the Cult of the Huge Phallus will have a neat design.


22 posted on 04/23/2007 2:16:37 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man
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To: wideawake
That all may be true and still be utterly irrelevant in this case.

In the eyes of a secular government, all faiths should be treated equally.

23 posted on 04/23/2007 2:18:14 PM PDT by Wormwood (Future Former Freeper)
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To: Zakeet
If it's good enough for the Son of God, and it's good enough for Batman and Superman,...then who can make any better of it?

or in those immortal words:


24 posted on 04/23/2007 2:18:31 PM PDT by Cvengr (The violence of evil is met with the violence of righteousness, justice, love and grace.)
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To: Wormwood

Put whatever you want on your loved one’s tombstone, but enough with the “ancient, historic symbolism” of a religion that was made up in London less than a century ago.


25 posted on 04/23/2007 2:20:19 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: Zakeet
Sufism Reoriented...

Not to be confused with Sufism Disoriented.

26 posted on 04/23/2007 2:22:10 PM PDT by PJ-Comix (Join the DUmmie FUnnies PING List for the FUNNIEST Blog on the Web)
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To: Zeroisanumber

“They fought for our country, there’s no reason not to bury them under the symbol of the faith that they’ve chosen.”

Agreed. This is American. They’ve fought for the right to believe any way we — or they — choose. It’s very sad this was the choice, but...


27 posted on 04/23/2007 2:23:11 PM PDT by MayflowerMadam
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To: Cvengr
If it's good enough for the Son of God, and it's good enough for Batman and Superman,...then who can make any better of it?

The billions of nice folks who don't recognize Jesus as the son of God for starters.

And Superman is Jewish. ;)

28 posted on 04/23/2007 2:23:13 PM PDT by Wormwood (Future Former Freeper)
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To: Cvengr
If it's good enough for the Son of God, and it's good enough for Batman and Superman,...

It turns out that Superman is Jewish. A lot of people don't know that because it was impossible to circumcise him.

29 posted on 04/23/2007 2:24:22 PM PDT by PJ-Comix (Join the DUmmie FUnnies PING List for the FUNNIEST Blog on the Web)
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To: wideawake
Again, I know.

Personally, I just add that to the pile of ridiculous things people choose to believe in the name of religion and move on.

30 posted on 04/23/2007 2:25:12 PM PDT by Wormwood (Future Former Freeper)
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To: Wormwood
And Superman is Jewish. ;)

Yes indeed. That lost, wondering tribe on Krypton.

31 posted on 04/23/2007 2:25:12 PM PDT by rhombus
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To: wideawake
In that pre-Christian milieu the "pentacle" was not a known symbol.

Oh, balls. There isn't a geometrical shape in the world that hasn't been used as a symbol for something since antiquity.

32 posted on 04/23/2007 2:25:57 PM PDT by Grut
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To: Secret Agent Man
Like this one?

Frankly I don't care if they want a Hula Girl or a #3 inscribed on their tombstone. If they died in the service of their country then their wished should be honored.

33 posted on 04/23/2007 2:30:26 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Mobile phones kill more people than exploding cupboards, ironing boards and Godzilla)
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To: Grut
Oh, balls. There isn't a geometrical shape in the world that hasn't been used as a symbol for something since antiquity.

There are two questions here:

(1) Is "Wicca" the ancient religion of the pre-Christian British Isles, or a new invention of a recent vintage? The answer is: a new invention.

(2) Was the ancient religion of the pre-Christian British Isles ever known to use "pentacles" as a symbol, or are the earliest documented users of this geometrical pattern Mediterranean Jewish students of the Zohar? Answer: the first people to use this symbol were of a different religion than the pre-Christian British and lived almost one thousand years after them.

34 posted on 04/23/2007 2:36:01 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: All

Next your favorite sports teams!,

you favorite disney characters!,

why not your favorite film star! let those grieving you think you looked like that famous film star!


35 posted on 04/23/2007 2:40:54 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory
And why not?

Chicago Bulls (Da BULLS) fans, Cheese heads, and etc.

Ever been to a SF/Fantasy Convention (Trekies, Strazinkites, and Star Wars fans).

Groupies everywhere, but ELVIS has left the building.

It is a religion for some of these people, so why not?

Worship the comic.

Of course I am opposed to such lunacy (another religion).

36 posted on 04/23/2007 2:58:46 PM PDT by fireforeffect (A kind word and a 2x4, gets you more than just a kind word.)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

Their wish or someone else’s wish?


37 posted on 04/23/2007 5:41:41 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man
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To: PJ-Comix; Zakeet
Not to be confused with Sufism Disoriented.

Only if the Dervishes over whirl...

38 posted on 04/23/2007 7:16:38 PM PDT by null and void (The truth. It is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with great caution.)
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To: wideawake
(1) Is "Wicca" the ancient religion of the pre-Christian British Isles, or a new invention of a recent vintage? The answer is: a new invention.

So? If I were still in Scientology and died in service of my country, I would want the S and Double Triangle on my marker.


39 posted on 04/23/2007 7:20:54 PM PDT by null and void (The truth. It is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with great caution.)
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To: Secret Agent Man
It was on his dog tags as his religion.

His wish.

40 posted on 04/24/2007 3:01:52 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Mobile phones kill more people than exploding cupboards, ironing boards and Godzilla)
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To: wideawake
(1) Is "Wicca" the ancient religion of the pre-Christian British Isles, or a new invention of a recent vintage? The answer is: a new invention.

Not relevant in any way.

If this hero believed in it, if it was his faith, than it is every bit as legitimate as Christianity when it comes to recognizing his faith on his grave.

I personally think that Scientology is a silly religion, but I would never be so crass as to say so to the grieving family of a military hero who wanted that symbol on his gravestone.

All faiths were once new, after all. The important thing is honoring the wishes of our dead soldiers, not nitpicking those wishes.

41 posted on 04/24/2007 6:39:04 AM PDT by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: highball

Tee hee hee. See post 39...


42 posted on 04/24/2007 9:55:25 AM PDT by null and void (The truth. It is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with great caution.)
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To: wideawake

A travesty. There are no pentacles at the U.S. military cemetery in Normandy, where our men are buried beneath the cross. The mere suggestion of such a thing would have been met by that generation of American heroes with disbelief and scorn. The first pentacle to appear at Arlington will be a tragic desecration.


43 posted on 04/25/2007 11:11:35 AM PDT by onward_xtian_soldier (God Bless America! America Bless God!)
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To: wideawake
According to Dictionary.com, citing
44 posted on 04/25/2007 12:11:16 PM PDT by Johannscv
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To: longtermmemmory

If you wish to die for our freedom, you can put anyone or anything you wish on your tombstone.


45 posted on 04/25/2007 12:13:26 PM PDT by trumandogz
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To: Johannscv

?


46 posted on 04/25/2007 12:29:23 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: onward_xtian_soldier; wideawake
The sadly ironic fact here is that these people died so you would continue to have the right to ridicule their religious beliefs.

They deserve better from you.

47 posted on 04/25/2007 4:50:48 PM PDT by Dawsonville_Doc
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To: Dawsonville_Doc
The sadly ironic fact here is that these people died so you would continue to have the right to ridicule their religious beliefs. They deserve better from you.

Thank you
Gods warriors are the warpath again....

48 posted on 04/25/2007 5:14:06 PM PDT by Charlespg (Peace= When we trod the ruins of Mecca and Medina under our infidel boots.)
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To: wideawake
Put whatever you want on your loved one’s tombstone, but enough with the “ancient, historic symbolism” of a religion that was made up in London less than a century ago

So what Christianity continues to be made up today as well as several thousand years ago. How long a made up religion has kicked around is its measurer of believability?

49 posted on 04/25/2007 5:40:53 PM PDT by MilspecRob (Most people don't act stupid, they really are.)
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To: MilspecRob
Christianity continues to be made up today

Christianity, as a matter of historical fact apart from all supernatural beliefs, is not a made-up religion.

It is true that certain made-up religions like Islam are very much older than the invention of "Wicca."

50 posted on 04/26/2007 7:08:03 AM PDT by wideawake
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