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NCIS misconduct alleged in Haditha probe
North County Times ^ | Tuesday, April 24, 2007 | MARK WALKER

Posted on 04/25/2007 12:52:41 PM PDT by TBP

Attorneys for the highest-ranking man charged with wrongdoing arising out of the slaying of 24 Iraqi civilians in 2005 are asking Navy Secretary Donald Winter to conduct an investigation of how his agents treated Marine witnesses and suspects.

"There are disturbing reports that American servicemen were treated like POWs by their own government," said Richard Thompson, president of the Thomas More Law Center, a Michigan group defending Lt. Col. Jeffrey Chessani. "This entire investigation has been nothing but a political witch hunt instigated by insurgent propaganda operatives, anti-war media and anti-war politicians."

Chessani is charged with dereliction of duty and violation of a lawful order for how he handled the initial investigation and reporting of the deaths that occurred in the city of Haditha on Nov. 19, 2005.

Three other officers face similar allegations and three enlisted men face murder charges in connection with the deaths. All the accused are from Camp Pendleton's 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment.

The complaint contends that Naval Criminal Investigative Service agents engaged in what Chessani's attorneys say were improper and unconstitutional interrogation methods.

Some of the interview and interrogation sessions that took place in Iraq in early 2006 lasted as long as 18 hours, during which the men being questioned were not allowed anything to eat, drink or use the bathroom, according to the complaint.

A spokesman for the criminal investigative service in Washington was reviewing the complaint and had no immediate response.

Brian Rooney, an attorney for Chessani, said a letter was sent to Winter today asking for the investigation.

The way the civilian law enforcement agents conducted the probe was like "having the verdict first and the trial second," Rooney said during a telephone interview Tuesday morning.

Leaks and investigative documents throughout the Haditha probe combined with the tactics of investigators pose significant hurdles for attorneys, he added.

"The defense of any of the clients is very difficult and it doesn't help when the interrogation techniques used by NCIS are not proper," Rooney said during a telephone interview. "I was always told by NCIS that they didn't take sides but that's not what happened in this case."

Chessani's attorneys, they say that many of the witnesses said the questioning was accusatorial, confrontational and insulting.

"One officer stated that agents yelled and threw things at him during his questioning," a release from the Thomas More Law Center states. "Witnesses believed that the agents had already concluded that there was wrongdoing and were not interested in information that would tend to exonerate the Marines."

Last week, the Marine Corps dropped murder charges against a sergeant who also had been charged, saying the value of his testimony outweighed his involvement in the incident.

A 1st lieutenant who responded to reports that a roadside bomb had destroyed a Humvee killing a lance corporal and triggering the events that led to the civilian deaths also has been granted immunity, as have as many as six other Marines, according to numerous sources.

A hearing for Chessani to determine if the charges against him move forward to court-martial will take place at Camp Pendleton next month. All the accused maintain they are innocent.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: defendourmarines; haditha; hamdania; military; pendleton8; waronterror
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So this is what we do to our own troops. How are we supposed to win a war that way?
1 posted on 04/25/2007 12:52:42 PM PDT by TBP
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To: TBP; 4woodenboats; aculeus; Admin-WeSupportFrank.com; American Cabalist; AmericanYankee; ...

Haditha PING


2 posted on 04/25/2007 12:56:05 PM PDT by pissant
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To: TBP
How are we supposed to win a war that way?

Well, according to the most recent lib talking points:
1. We're not in a war.
2. We've lost the war.

3 posted on 04/25/2007 12:59:17 PM PDT by The Blitherer ("What the devil is keeping the Yanks?")
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To: TBP

>>So this is what we do to our own troops. How are we supposed to win a war that way?<<

I doubt this will be successful. The government can’t admit that 18 hours of questioning without food or bathroom invalidates the information derived without adressing that we act on information gained by holding people under water to make them think they are drowning and that we interrogate people for months using pain.


4 posted on 04/25/2007 12:59:54 PM PDT by gondramB (God only has ten rules, uncle Hank, and he has a much bigger house.)
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To: TBP; pissant
"This entire investigation has been nothing but a political witch hunt instigated by insurgent propaganda operatives, anti-war media and anti-war politicians."

Bumping that to the top - it's absolutely spot on.

5 posted on 04/25/2007 1:01:13 PM PDT by StarCMC (Honor military recruiters in all 50 states ~ May 19, 2007 ~ http://gatheringofeagles.org/?p=257)
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To: gondramB
we act on information gained by holding people under water to make them think they are drowning and that we interrogate people for months using pain

Where's the proof that we do such things? Just wondering.

6 posted on 04/25/2007 1:02:26 PM PDT by StarCMC (Honor military recruiters in all 50 states ~ May 19, 2007 ~ http://gatheringofeagles.org/?p=257)
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To: StarCMC

Boy is it ever. Bastards.


7 posted on 04/25/2007 1:03:03 PM PDT by pissant
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To: TBP

This a direct result of ambitious JAGs and wanna be cops in the NCIS. You may think the Duke Lacrosse prosecutor, Nifong and his investigators, were an aberration, but rest assured that there are many more Nifongs and corrupt investigators out there. These wastes of skin are not remotely concerned about justice or truth, but about another promotion, another scalp for the record and will lie, make up evidence, hide exculpatory evidence and continue with meritless prosecutions to avoid being exposed for the poxes on the justice system they are.


8 posted on 04/25/2007 1:06:18 PM PDT by JeeperFreeper
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To: TBP
"One officer stated that agents yelled and threw things at him during his questioning,"

That's terrible. If this is allowed to stand the next thing we;ll hear is that they're squirting pop up their noses.

9 posted on 04/25/2007 1:06:35 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: JeeperFreeper
[T]here are many more Nifongs and corrupt investigators out there.

Johnny Sutton.
Patrick Fitzgerald.
Ronnie Earl.

Anyone want to add names?

10 posted on 04/25/2007 1:08:52 PM PDT by TBP
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To: pissant

No - Bastions. (LOL!)

I tell ya, I feel for our military members right now. They have to fight against the enemy over there AND over here. At least we can do our best to help them out over here.


11 posted on 04/25/2007 1:09:56 PM PDT by StarCMC (Honor military recruiters in all 50 states ~ May 19, 2007 ~ http://gatheringofeagles.org/?p=257)
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To: StarCMC

>>we act on information gained by holding people under water to make them think they are drowning and that we interrogate people for months using pain


Where’s the proof that we do such things? Just wondering.<<

It doesn’t actually qualify as proof to my mind. But I have seen Guantonomo interrogation logs that say we use painful stress positions and forced enemas.

The report issued by the Central Intelligence Agency’s inspector general warned that 10 techniques approved by the administration including painful positions for extended time and water and feigned drowning could violate the UN convention against torture.

The government can’t now come back and say the Haditha interrogations are invalid because they lasted 18 hours and didn’t include food.

So, strategically, I believe this defense approach will fail.

But “proof” that we systematically torture? No, I have not seen that.


12 posted on 04/25/2007 1:10:09 PM PDT by gondramB (God only has ten rules, uncle Hank, and he has a much bigger house.)
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To: pissant

< comment would have been deleted by moderator >

@$#@ *%# Murtha


13 posted on 04/25/2007 1:16:35 PM PDT by Velveeta
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To: gondramB

I just hesitate to believe any of that, without seeing it from a source I trust. The news media is NOT one of those sources I trust. (Think the Gitmo Koran flushing thing.) It’s not a slam on you, just a statement that I choose to believe the absolute best about our military unless presented with irrefutable proof to the contrary.

In the Canteen thread here for the last few Monday threads, we’ve been looking at the Geneva Conventions. I’ve been doing a lot of reading on that subject, and the thing that makes my blood boil is to realize that we have signed these documents about how we’ll treat our enemies, POWs, etc. and our enemy hasn’t. IOW, we treat them with kid gloves, and they behead our soldiers and hang their burned carcasses from bridges. So I guess I have a little trouble getting upset if one of our guys might sleep deprive one of their guys a little in order to get some information that might save an American life or two.

So I suppose I could see how this argument WOULD work. If our Marines were treated outside of Geneva convention rules for POWs, then they do have a leg to stand on. IMHO.


14 posted on 04/25/2007 1:17:02 PM PDT by StarCMC (Honor military recruiters in all 50 states ~ May 19, 2007 ~ http://gatheringofeagles.org/?p=257)
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To: StarCMC

LOL. That’s right.

Fortunately, I think some of the uproar has put a dent in the JAGS BS in theatre.


15 posted on 04/25/2007 1:21:32 PM PDT by pissant
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To: TBP

Where’s the Abu Grave crowd when you need them? I guess torturing US servicemen is OK with them.


16 posted on 04/25/2007 1:21:33 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: Velveeta

With a a rough hewn 4x4.


17 posted on 04/25/2007 1:22:14 PM PDT by pissant
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To: ozzymandus
"I guess torturing US servicemen is OK with them."

LOL! Are you saying they tortured the Col?

18 posted on 04/25/2007 1:24:17 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: StarCMC

>>I just hesitate to believe any of that, without seeing it from a source I trust. The news media is NOT one of those sources I trust. (Think the Gitmo Koran flushing thing.) It’s not a slam on you, just a statement that I choose to believe the absolute best about our military unless presented with irrefutable proof to the contrary.<<

I didn’t take that as a slam - you point out a serious problem - our information comes through the media.

And I don’t want to believe we would use the techniques described in the GST program. But there is enough indication that the techniques were approved at least up through Donald Rumsfeld that I don’t think the government will accept 18 hour interrogations as overly harsh.

Here is a page that allegedly has links to documents with Rumsfeld’s signature authorizing pain and feigned drowning.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB127/

There is also the problem of the Attorney General’s statement that “The Office of Legal Counsel concludes that physical pain constituting torture “must be equivalent in intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death.” Indicating that lesser pain for coercion was legal.

Again, I take this all with a grain of salt but I hope the Haditha lawyers have some other defense planned.


19 posted on 04/25/2007 1:32:02 PM PDT by gondramB (God only has ten rules, uncle Hank, and he has a much bigger house.)
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To: TBP
need names of the NCIS investigators and the chain of command that allowed this.

none of these so called "men" should profit politically when they exit from the armed forces for screwing their fellow Marines.

I want a Nifong jihad against every NCIS wannabe jag-off that lists names and hometowns in order for the f'ing cockroach lawyers they are to be exposed.

Murtha, Pelosi, Chet Edwards, and Reid are expected to be quisling cockroaches that stab our troops in the back for political purposes. Naval and Marine officers are supposed to be made of better stuff.

20 posted on 04/25/2007 1:37:58 PM PDT by Dick Vomer (liberals suck....... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.,)
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To: gondramB
From that link:

This Electronic Briefing Book includes a comprehensive listing of available records relating to U.S. interrogation policies, including records officially released by the White House and the Department of Defense on June 22, leaked documents that have not been officially released, and a description of 17 records that have not been made available to the public. In addition, this posting includes the text of a congressional subpoena proposed by Senators Leahy and Feinstein that was defeated on June 17, 2004 by the Senate Judiciary Committee and a copy of the "Taguba Report" detailing the findings of a Department of Defense investigation into the treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq.

The website is George Washington University. My uneducated guess would be that the vast majority of poly-sci profs from that campus that would be into this thing would most likely be liberal, and have an axe to grind. IOW, I don't really give the source a lot of credit for being completely truthful. That's just me though - I am VERY hard to convince that our military is in the wrong. :-)

21 posted on 04/25/2007 1:46:02 PM PDT by StarCMC (Honor military recruiters in all 50 states ~ May 19, 2007 ~ http://gatheringofeagles.org/?p=257)
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To: StarCMC

And hence my use of the word “alledgedly.”

We have a real problem with source. The accusers won’t believe anything from the government says and conservatives have correctly come to expect bias from the media.

that larger problem looks unresolvable.

I’ve got a lot of concern about Haditha (not the least of which is confusion by the public with other cases) - I just hope their lawyers are able to show they should be found not-guilty rather than trying to back the administration into a corner on interrogation.


22 posted on 04/25/2007 1:57:37 PM PDT by gondramB (God only has ten rules, uncle Hank, and he has a much bigger house.)
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To: gondramB

I will agree with that. Better that their names are cleared than that they get off on a technicality.


23 posted on 04/25/2007 2:01:34 PM PDT by StarCMC (Honor military recruiters in all 50 states ~ May 19, 2007 ~ http://gatheringofeagles.org/?p=257)
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To: TBP

Its ok to the left to treat our own like dogs, as long as we treat the terrorists like kings. You wont see any outrage on DNCBS for this. You wont see the Old York Times having 150 stories about this outrage.

Pray for W and Our Marines


24 posted on 04/25/2007 2:10:43 PM PDT by bray (The Surge is Working against both Enemies of America)
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To: spunkets
LOL! Are you saying they tortured the Col?

Oh, I understand what you are saying about the Col. That wouldn't be considered as torture since he is a Marine and Marines go without food and water all the time protecting us while we make jokes about their sacrifices. Thanks for clearing that up. I dare you not to go pee pee for 18 hrs.

25 posted on 04/25/2007 2:24:02 PM PDT by lilycicero (SSgt Wuterich and his squad don't make deals.)
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To: lilycicero
"I dare you not to go pee pee for 18 hrs."

So are you claiming they wouldn't allow the Col to go pee, for 18 hrs?

26 posted on 04/25/2007 2:27:32 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: StarCMC
IMHO, the Pendleton eight are not POWs and do not come under the Geneva Conventions in the case. They are suspects are the accused in a criminal proceedings and if the government used any kind of torriure against them then they are wrong. If it were found out that the police had used these same tactics against a civilian criminal I bet they would go free. When I was an investigator, working as a DOD cop with the Navy, we would never have been allowed to use types of interrogation techniques.

War is hell, sometimes innocents get killed. If these marines were ambushed and were taking fire from this house or suspected the terrorists were in that house they had the right and duty to go dig them out. But there have been all kind of statements made about the little girl who said she knew the IED was going to go off. How did she know that? Was it one of her family members that planted it. I know from experience, having worked in Iraq, that these people will lie. They have even killed civilians and then tried blaming it on our soldiers. Even doctors have told the media of hundreds of people being killed by allied strikes and after fire fights. When it was checked out they found it was a lie.. And we are going to try and sentence our marines on the words of these people?

27 posted on 04/25/2007 2:35:43 PM PDT by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: spunkets
Some of the interview and interrogation sessions that took place in Iraq in early 2006 lasted as long as 18 hours, during which the men being questioned were not allowed anything to eat, drink or use the bathroom, according to the complaint.

So are you claiming they wouldn't allow the Col to go pee, for 18 hrs?

I don't know, I wasn't there. I don't find it amusing at all. Next are you going to tell me he held it in and his eyes were yellow? You took the p out of resect.

28 posted on 04/25/2007 2:38:37 PM PDT by lilycicero (SSgt Wuterich and his squad don't make deals.)
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To: Americanexpat

I agree with you 110%. I was just trying to say that I believe that if our soldiers were treated in a manner inconsistent with the Geneva Conventions, I think they absolutely have a leg to stand on with this defense (in response to another post.) That this case has even gotten this far, to me, is an outrage.


29 posted on 04/25/2007 2:39:05 PM PDT by StarCMC (Honor military recruiters in all 50 states ~ May 19, 2007 ~ http://gatheringofeagles.org/?p=257)
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To: lilycicero
" I don't know, I wasn't there."

Then why bring it up?

"I don't find it amusing at all."

That's good?

"Next are you going to tell me he held it in and his eyes were yellow? "

Nah.

"You took the p out of resect."

Ridiculous.

30 posted on 04/25/2007 2:42:10 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: pissant

I for one would like to see the Commander-in-Chief & SecDef make the following change:

1) Effective immediately, ALL deployed combat units will have a JAG officer and a ACLU representative assign AT ALL TIMES.

2) During each mission, the assigned JAG office and ACLU rep will be responsible for “point” positions.

3) Replacement JAG and ACLU members will be made until all resources exhausted.


31 posted on 04/25/2007 2:42:55 PM PDT by Jambe
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To: spunkets
Then why bring it up?

Post #18.

32 posted on 04/25/2007 2:46:48 PM PDT by lilycicero (SSgt Wuterich and his squad don't make deals.)
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To: lilycicero
" Post #18."

There's nothing about pee in there. The post replied to suggested the Col. was tortured. The defendants attys claim the Col was yelled at, and had things thrown at him.

33 posted on 04/25/2007 2:51:50 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: pissant

Very rough....yes.


34 posted on 04/25/2007 2:56:59 PM PDT by Velveeta
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To: spunkets
Sorry Spunkets the sentence did not say the Col was yelled at, it stated: One officer stated that agents yelled and threw things at him during his questioning

You 'LOL' asking if the Col was tortured....post #28 gave more info on the treatment and part of the treatment was not being allowed to go to the piss locker, head, whatever you want to call it...I kindly challenged you to try to go 18 hrs like the report stated and you pawn it off as if it didn't happen to the Marines. I said, I wasn't there to know which of the Marines were deprived of these things we take for granted.

35 posted on 04/25/2007 3:03:12 PM PDT by lilycicero (SSgt Wuterich and his squad don't make deals.)
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To: spunkets; lilycicero
That's terrible. If this is allowed to stand the next thing we;ll hear is that they're squirting pop up their noses. Making light of the way men -who put their lives and limbs on the line for us- are treated by their country is piss poor.
36 posted on 04/25/2007 3:07:59 PM PDT by freema (Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: lilycicero
Re: The Col

"post #28 gave more info on the treatment and part of the treatment was not being allowed to go to the piss locker, head, whatever you want to call it.

Ridiculous.

"I kindly challenged you to try to go 18 hrs like the report stated and you pawn it off as if it didn't happen to the Marines."

There's no such report. If any MArine is refused access to the head, they should pee on the floor, and try to hit the enemy/lailer's leg if possible.

37 posted on 04/25/2007 3:08:25 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: lilycicero; spunkets

“You took the p out of resect.” - Good one. LOL!

Spunkets, whatever you want to call this, this is no way to treat our Marines. It would be one thing if they did this to try to discover some truth that hadn’t been uncovered yet. The longer this has gone on, I don’t believe the NCIS was trying to discover some “truth” about the events in Haditha that day. They appeared to just have been trying to force some “testimony” to fit their preconceived ideas. Our Marines do deserve more respect than insurgents/terrorists or whatever we’re calling the enemy this week. They are Americans.


38 posted on 04/25/2007 3:12:00 PM PDT by Girlene
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To: freema
"Making light of the way men -who put their lives and limbs on the line for us- are treated by their country is piss poor."

Ridiculous.

39 posted on 04/25/2007 3:14:09 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: spunkets

When you’re a 19 year old boy facing life in prison, pop up the nose would be welcome.


40 posted on 04/25/2007 3:22:52 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8...down to 3..GWB, we hardly knew ye...)
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To: spunkets

Good to know where you stand, spunkets.


41 posted on 04/25/2007 3:27:02 PM PDT by freema (Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: Girlene
"this is no way to treat our Marines."

What specifically is the treatment alleged? If the Col is complaining through his atty's, that he was yelled at and had things thrown at him, he is a disgrace.

The Corps alleges that the Col essentially failed to know what the hell went on. It was his duty to know what went on. The Col offered nothing, but excuses for his failure to know what went on. Now his atty's are whinning that he was yelled at and "had things thrown at him". NICS investigators and Jags aren't running this show the USMC was and still is.

"They appeared to just have been trying to force some “testimony” to fit their preconceived ideas."

Ridiculous.

"Our Marines do deserve more respect than insurgents/terrorists or whatever we’re calling the enemy this week. They are Americans."

Irrelevant. The matter involves the Marine Corp's and the DOD's demands that the commander's intent is carried out w/o violating the rules of engagment, or the Laws of War. The Corps expects it's battalion commanders to know what the hell's going on and stay on top of things. They expect that when reasonable evidence arises that a problem exists, that the situation be investigated and the matter documented to the fulleest extent. The Col failed to do that.

42 posted on 04/25/2007 3:30:06 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: RaceBannon
"When you’re a 19 year old boy facing life in prison, pop up the nose would be welcome."

No it wouldn't be. The Col's also not a 19 y/o boy.

43 posted on 04/25/2007 3:32:20 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: freema
"Good to know where you stand, spunkets. "

You don't know where I stand.

44 posted on 04/25/2007 3:33:52 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: spunkets

You seem to like that word, “Ridiculous” on this thread. If I remember correctly from some previous postings by you, the word of the day was “Whatever”.

Part of my posting said, “Our Marines do deserve more respect than insurgents/terrorists or whatever we’re calling the enemy this week. They are Americans.”

Your answer was, “Irrelevant”. Hmmmm. What’s your beef with all of this? Please feel free to make your point and state your case. I’m curious what it is.


45 posted on 04/25/2007 3:39:24 PM PDT by Girlene
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To: Girlene; freema; RaceBannon

I just heard the other shoe drop. (or boot which ever you like)


46 posted on 04/25/2007 3:45:42 PM PDT by lilycicero
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To: Girlene

Marines are Marines, and the Marines are handling this matter. The Marines are not being tortured, nor is any of this unjust. The accusations are based on the actions taken, the reults, and testimony of Marine’s. Everything else is irrelevant. I find the claims that these Marine’s were tortured highly amusing, especially the Col’s atty’s claim that he was yelled at, and “had things thrown at him”. The idea that any of the Marines were denied water and head access is ridiculous.


47 posted on 04/25/2007 3:53:11 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: StarCMC; gondramB
I am VERY hard to convince that our military is in the wrong. :-)

I am the same way!
I don't like the idea that anyone gets any benefit, in accusing our military of anything wrong...........without absolute proof.

Then again....I'm not sure I would believe it then either.

48 posted on 04/25/2007 3:56:20 PM PDT by LadyPilgrim ((Jesus is real, He will never fail...I will serve him now, and thoughout all eternity! ))
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To: spunkets; Girlene; lilycicero
That's terrible. If this is allowed to stand the next thing we;ll hear is that they're squirting pop up their noses.

To: freema "Making light of the way men -who put their lives and limbs on the line for us- are treated by their country is piss poor."

Ridiculous. 39 posted on 04/25/2007 6:14:09 PM EDT by spunkets

If you would like to clarify your stance, if you didn't mean for your remarks to come off as such, by all means, please clarify.

49 posted on 04/25/2007 4:04:42 PM PDT by freema (Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: spunkets

Well I have to agree with one part of your statement, “Marines are Marines,”.

The Marines never claimed they were tortured, a poster made a statement about being tortured. I disagree with “nor is any of this unjust” part of your statement. We may just have different opinions on that matter. That’s fine.

I find words like “amusing”, “irrelevant”, and “ridiculous” in matters relating to the defense of Marines who face possible life in prison for trying to do their jobs in Haditha somewhat flippant. But, that’s just me. They fought for us, my duty as an American is to stand up for them. Even if it’s fairly inconsequential on a FR thread.

I appreciate you making your case. Thankyou.


50 posted on 04/25/2007 4:07:15 PM PDT by Girlene
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