Posted on 04/30/2007 3:44:17 AM PDT by rmlew
My point was that you cannot label an entire group of people based on the beliefs of a minority of that group. Labeling all Muslims as extremists because an extremist sect exists within the group makes as much sense as labeling all Americans as liberal abortionists because a liberal abortionist sect exists within the American population.
I suggest you talk to people that are Arab or have traveled to the Middle East; if you did, you would hear nothing but stories of hospitality coming from the Arab population. Arabs may disagree with the policies of the U.S. government, but by and large they believe in freedom (who wouldn’t?) and hold no resentment toward individual Americans.
That is not true to the slightest degree.
Oh, really Achmed?
And water isn't wet?
The sun can't cause sunburn?
Mosquitos don't bite?
Rattlesnakes make nice pets?
OK then...
Explain this, which goes a tad beyond "slightest":
It's healthy to know your limitations, but arrogant assumption can be dangerous.
Would you like to discuss islamic history?
I would love to discuss Janissaries with you; how all the men, the old and the useless children were killed and just the women, girls and proper age Christian boys were taken to the slave markets, or kept by the Caliph for training as his personal army?
Pick your subject.
I learned all about islam before it became fashionable.
I do not consider anything written by a muslim after 1950 to be worth the paper it's written on.
You said that, I didn't. My IQ is over 50.
Typical liberal nonsense; all or nothing.
It doesn't take all or even a majority, so long as the remainder either remain silent or do not actively root them out on their own.
Please name one instance where the muslim community in the US identified and caused one of their own to be arrested tried and convicted for plotting mass murder or destruction.
Just one.
Are you aware that if only 15% of the world's muslims ( a low estimate) are actively killers, that comes to 1,500,000 murderers to identify and keep track of?
Care to explain how that fits your "not in the slightest" statement?
“may disagree with the policies” so they blow themselves up in pizzerias as a protest. Very nice.
Yes, I am liberal because I believe that marginalizing the world’s Muslim population does not serve America’s best interests.
“It doesn’t take all or even a majority, so long as the remainder either remain silent or do not actively root them out on their own.”
Yes absolutely true. However, with this case (as with most cases in COIN/CT) there are the hardcore US supporters, the neutral population, and the hardcore terrorists. By far, however, most of the Muslim/Arab world falls into the middle category. They do not actively promote attacks on Americans nor do they actively help in CT efforts (although you’ll be hard-pressed to walk along any street in the Middle East to find “Joe Muslim” saying that terrorism is compatible with the teachings of Islam). The key to a CT effort is to persuade enough of the neutral population to come to the American side; you do not do that by treating all Muslims as terrorists.
The ones that blow themselves up in pizzerias are obviously terrorists; however, you have yet to prove that this makes all Muslims terrorists. By treating them this way, you do nothing to help CT efforts and sever the HUMINT flow that already exists.
“Please name one instance where the muslim community in the US identified and caused one of their own to be arrested tried and convicted for plotting mass murder or destruction.
Just one.”
This is a logical fallacy. How can members of the Muslim community prevent attacks they do not know about? Terrorist cells are very secretive and do not go around their mosques broadcasting their intentions beforehand (this is remarkably different than the terrorists in the ME that make “martyrdom videos”). Because these organizations are networked, even other terrorist cells in the same region do not know of upcoming attakcs.
I can give you plenty of instances,though, of Iraqis giving the Coalition intelligence that has prevented mass murder by AQI or other insurgent groups...or the Saudi government arresting terrorists within their borders before attacks occur...or the Pakistani government or the Jordanian government conducting joint training exercises with US forces focused on CT efforts.
‘’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’
Read “The Enemy at Home” by Danesh D’Souza.He has been attacked by both libs and conservatives for the thesis that radical islam is using the liberal attack on basic American traditional values to radicalize moderate muslims. The jihadists contention is that atheistic American left is turning America into a pagan immoral playground for the devil. Interesting perspective. We may have more in common with muslims than we do with the anti-Christian left in our own country. Definitely deserves further analysis.
Thanks for the tip! Sounds like an interesting read. That’s one thing I’ve found talking to Arabs and through studying Arabic; the average Muslim is very much like the average southern Protestant. Hospitable and devout.
‘’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’
You are definitely on to something. I traveled from Hartford ,which is home, to Smith college in MA to hear D’Souza speak to college republicans. He is no “islamist apologist” as he is being portrayed by many conservatives. He presents a different perspective. I advance this quote for you from his chapter on “ A secular Crusade”. “Traditional muslims believe they have every right to maintain their religious societies, to keep religion as the basis of law, and to resist liberal efforts to impose bogus secular “reforms” on islamic societies. The real culprits, in this case, are the secular warriors. Both in America and abroad, they are the ones who are trying TO ERADICATE EVERY PUBLIC TRACE OF THE RELIGIOUS AND MORAL VALUES THAT MOST OF THE WORLD LIVES BY. (MY EMPHASIS).”
This is a viewpoint that has not been explored very deeply as yet, but consider how American Christians feel as we see the left strip our country of every public display of our morality and our values in the name of separation of church and state. i wonder if this “clash of civilizations” is more properly a clash of believers in one God with the forces of a world socialist order based in anti-God “totalitarian humanism”.
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