Skip to comments.Was 'Srebrenica genocide' a hoax? (Muslim soldiers who died in earlier battles used to up count)
Posted on 05/01/2007 4:11:39 AM PDT by joan
Posted: May 1, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Aleksandar Pavic
For more than 10 years, the term "Srebrenica" has been used to denote the slaughter of "innocent Muslims" at the hands of Christians more specifically, the Bosnian Serb army, alleged to have slaughtered, according to the version currently accepted by most major media, "between 7,000 and 8,000 Muslims" when it captured that small town in eastern Bosnia in mid-July 1995. As the story goes, the Bosnian Serbs captured this "U.N.-protected zone" and proceeded to take away and execute thousands of men, women and children in the space of several days, subsequently burying them in mass graves that are still being dug up almost 12 years later.
Belgrade-based historian and researcher, Milivoje Ivanisevic, who has been documenting Yugoslavian civil war casualties for more than a decade, has recently challenged the claims in a new booklet, "The Srebrenica Identity Card," which documents hundreds of bodies buried at the Srebrenica Memorial that were not killed in July 1995, when the alleged genocide took place, including cases of people who died natural deaths a full 13 years before the event took place.
The newest evidence offered by Ivanisevic indicates a number of those buried at the Srebrenica Memorial Complex not only were not killed in July 1995, but actually died much earlier, even in the early 1980s more than 10 years before the civil war in Yugoslavia even started.
According to Ivanisevic, as of March 2007, more than 12 years after the event, a total of 2,442 bodies have been buried at the Memorial. Among those, a total of 914, or over 37 percent, were on the voting lists for the 1996 elections in Bosnia over a year after the alleged "genocide." The voting lists themselves were approved and checked by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, which supervised the elections.
A second even more significant find involves the fact that "at least 100 people" buried at the Memorial died of natural causes. Ivanisevic claims that the numbers would be even larger if he'd been allowed access to the death books in Srebrenica and the surrounding towns. Nevertheless, several names with dates of birth, death and place of demise are provided: Fetahija (Nazif) Hasanovic, b. 1955 d. Dec.15, 1996, Srebrenica; Sukrija (Amil) Smajlovic, b.1946 d. May 2,1996, Zaluzje; Maho (Suljo) Rizvanovic, b.1953 d. Jan. 3,1993, Glogova; Mefail (meho) Demirovic, b.1970 d. May 10, 1992, Krasanovici; Redzic (Ahmet) Asim, b.1949 d. April 22, 1992, Bratunac.
Thirdly, Ivanisevic charges that several hundred soldiers as well as civilians were transferred to the Srebrenica Memorial from other cemeteries and reburied, with Muslim burial rituals. One of these is the body of Hamed (Hamid) Halilovic (1940-1982), transferred from the nearby cemetery in Kazani, who apparently died a full 13 years before the Srebrenica "genocide." Other bodies transferred from Kazani to the Srebrenica Memorial include those of Osman (Ibro) Halilovic (1912-1989), Nurija (Smajo) Memisevic (1966-1993), Salih (Saban) Alic (1969-1992), Mujo (Hasim) Hadzic (1954-1993), Ferid (Ramo) Mustafic (1975-1993) and Hajrudin (Ismet) Cvrk (1974-1992).
Fourth, using captured records of the Bosnian Muslim Army, Ivanisevic lists more than a dozen names of soldiers whose families were granted housing and social benefits due to families of soldiers killed in action before Nov. 11, 1993, when the documents were captured by Bosnian Serb army forces.
Fifth, on the basis of similarly captured documents, Ivanisevic provides several dozen names of Bosnian Muslim army fighters killed before March 7, 1994.
Ivanisevic goes on to provide names of Bosnian Muslim soldiers buried at the Srebrenica Memorial who were implicated in numerous massacres of Serbian civilians in the vicinity between 1992-1995, in which a total of over 3,000 Serbs were killed. Interestingly, the commander of the Srebrenica Bosnian army forces, Naser Oric, was given a two-year sentence by the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia, or ICTY, in June 2006 for his participation in these killings, some of which he captured on video and showed to Washington Post reporter John Pomfret, who visited him inside the "U.N. Safe Zone" in 1994.
During the 1990s, the Clinton administration used the "Srebrenica genocide" claim to enter the Bosnian civil war on the side of the Bosnian Muslims and enforce the subsequent Dayton Peace Agreement for Bosnia-Herzegovina in November 1995, with mutual recognition between Yugoslavia (now Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia). More generally, Clinton's State Department bureaucracy used the "Srebrenica genocide" as it has since been referred to as a result of controversial verdicts pronounced by the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia in The Hague to justify its support for Muslim-dominated political movements not just in Bosnia but in Macedonia and Serbia's Kosovo region, which is currently seeking independence. And, since most of Clinton's State Department appointments, headed by Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Nicholas Burns, have continued running the U.S. Balkan strategy, the policy has remained intact to this day.
Thus, even as the current Kosovo Albanian independence drive is provided heavy U.S., British and German support, the Bosnian Serbs, unhappy at the prospect of being locked inside a Muslim-dominated Bosnia, are being denied independence, with the "Srebrenica genocide" being used as the chief argument i.e., that wartime gains achieved through "genocide" cannot be sanctioned. Many observers, including a recent G2 Bulletin analysis, link Western support of Balkan Muslims at the expense of Christians as part of a broader policy of appeasing "moderate" Sunni-controlled regimes in the Middle East, as part of an anti-Iranian Shiite coalition.
Among radical Bosnian Muslim elements, the Srebrenica narrative has been used not only to rally support to the general cause of jihad, to arouse Muslim feelings of having been oppressed and persecuted by non-Muslims, but to build what some have called the "first Muslim shrine in Europe," a gathering place for Muslims from the world over with anti-Western, anti-European and anti-Christian grievances. The Memorial Complex in Srebrenica now serves as a place of pilgrimage, where Muslims can see firsthand the results of what they believe is an unprecedented atrocity against their fellow believers.
The entire Srebrenica narrative has been provided key support by Western mainstream media, headed by the New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Wall Street Journal and the mainstream British, German and French media, who have laced their Balkan reporting throughout the years with references to the "Srebrenica genocide," calling it, among other things, the "worst atrocity in Europe since World War II," a "stain on the conscience of the West," etc.
From the very beginning, numerous dissenting voices both in the West and in ex-Yugoslavia have contested both the Western mass media claims and the ICTY Srebrenica-connected verdicts, but have received almost no publicity whatsoever.
In the summer of 2005, on the 10-year anniversary of the event, the "Srebrenica Research Group," composed of mostly American and British media and academic figures, as well as former U.N. civil officials and military observers with ex-Yugoslavia experience, put up a website in which the entire "Srebrenica massacre" account was reconsidered and demystified. Instead of the 7-8,000 figure, U.N. officials and U.S. Congress experts were quoted giving figures of "700-800," "the low hundreds," "about 2,000 Muslims and Serbs total," etc. Henry Wieland, head of the U.N. Human Rights Commission, who spent days interviewing Srebrenica refugees in July 1995, is quoted as saying that he did not find "anyone who'd seen any atrocity committed with their own eyes."
The forensic findings were taken to task as well, with claims that the entire process of excavation and identification of bodies was controlled by an organization founded by the late Bosnian Islamist leader, Alija Izetbegovic. And, a Canadian international law professor deconstructed the Srebrenica-connected verdicts at the ICTY, showing, among other things, that Bosnian Serb Gen. Radoslav Krstic, sentenced by the court to a 46-year term, was, in the court's own verdict, absolved of participation in or even knowledge of the alleged massacre, instead being sentenced according to the ICTY's own construction of "command responsibility." The prosecution's star witness, Drazen Erdemovic, a Bosnian Croat who mysteriously appeared in the ranks of the Bosnian Serb army after previously fighting in the Bosnian Muslim army ranks, claimed participation in the execution of 1,200 Srebrenica Muslims, was exempted from cross-examination, deemed by the court itself as "mentally unstable" and, ultimately, given a five-year sentence for his "cooperation." Yet, the mass media, without exception, have ignored the group's findings, even those quoting the very same mass media's own reports from the ground at the time.
The Netherlands Institute for War Documentation issued an extensive report in 2002, "Srebrenica, a 'Safe' Area," detailing, among other things, that Srebrenica, although declared a "U.N. Safe Zone," was in fact never demilitarized, and that several thousand armed Bosnian Muslim troops were stationed in it between 1992-1995, organizing numerous lethal raids against Serbian villages in the vicinity. This claim was additionally corroborated by the U.N. secretary-general's report to the U.N. General Assembly of Nov. 15, 1999.
Ivanisevic's book will soon to be translated into English. It remains to be seen whether the Western corporate mass media will continue ignoring this and other evidence debunking the claim that an anti-Muslim "genocide" took place in Srebrenica in July 1995. Some public figures in the Balkans have called for an international commission on Srebrenica, which would re-examine the evidence and make a new, more balanced and independent assessment of what took place in eastern Bosnia during the last stages of its civil war, in the summer of 1995.
French recognition of American independence did not magically make the British hanging of Nathan Hale into a war-crime. The Bosnian Serbs were fighting for the integrity of their homeland—Yugoslavia—just as the ‘secessionists’ from Virginia who formed West Virginia, to oppose secession.
From their point of view, the Bosnian secessionists were traitors. Again, I remind you, the Geneva Conventions do not apply to civil wars.
3016 missing persons, and 350 on voting lists, vs. lots more missing and 9 on voting lists for a different election? (I read the same thing you read and cited in your post to the other thread, the Brunborg et al. report that looked at tht 1997 and 1998 lists, and found only 9 of the missing).
The ‘experts’ employed by the Kangaroo Court for the Former Yugoslavia don’t seem to be able to tell a coherent story. Seeing this is the same ‘august’ body whose case against Milosevic had completely collapsed before his death, I’m suprised you have the timerity to cite them as authoritative.
Equating ‘missing persons’ with murdered (or summarily executed, by your leave) is a neat trick. Missing can be murdered, executed, killed in battle, died of natural causes, fled and living overseas under a new identity, moved to the next village after the war and not speaking up, since your propaganda depends on keeping the number of missing, disingenuously declared murdered, as high as possible.
For precisely that reason, battle casualties are an issue: you want to claim missing = murdered, which is not the case, as even one battle casualty among the missing proves.
Again, I remind you, the Geneva Conventions do not apply.
See if you can follow me here:
The Geneva Convention relative to the treatment of Prisoners of War specifically state that they apply to conflicts "not of an international character".
In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:
1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.
To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:
( a ) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
( b ) Taking of hostages;
( c ) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;
( d ) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.
And if that, like what transpires at the ICTY, proves too difficult for you to understand, the following Protocol II makes it even simpler:
Article 1.-Material field of application
1. This Protocol, which develops and supplements Article 3 common to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 without modifying its existing conditions of application, shall apply to all armed conflicts which are not covered by Article 1 of the Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I) and which take place in the territory of a High Contracting Party between its armed forces and dissident armed forces or other organized armed groups which, under responsible command, exercise such control over a part of its territory as to enable them to carry out sustained and concerted military operations and to implement this Protocol.
2. This Protocol shall not apply to situations of internal disturbances and tensions, such as riots, isolated and sporadic acts of violence and other acts of a similar nature, as not being armed conflicts.
In short, you're wrong, and appear to be operating under the mistaken impression that simply because you post something, that it somehow is worthy of consideration and immune from the most basic fact-checking.
Disabuse yourself of any such notion immediately.
Get yourself half a brain.
Hoppie/Helot-—You are so seriously brainwashed that you really can’t get enough of the BS put out there by roddie and his boy toy Burns all covering up for bureacrazis at dysfunctional State.
The whole thing is a deliberate fabrication - propaganda “big lie” (to quote Goebbels - and a complete coverup of the genocide committed by the muslims there.
In fact the ranking UN officer on the scene at Srebenica has said this:
“Everybody is parroting everybody [about Srebrenica] but nobody shows hard evidence. In the Netherlands people want to prove at all costs that genocide has been committed. I dont believe any of it. The day after the collapse of Srebrenica, July 13, I arrived in Bratunac [alleged massacre site] and stayed there for eight days. I was able to go wherever I wanted to. I was granted all possible assistance; nowhere was I stopped.”
(Captain Schouten, in Bratunac, Het Parool, 27/07/95)
Hoppie/Helot—brainless wonder that you are...is there any hope for you? Or are you condemned to believe big monopolistic media lies for the rest of your life like a schoolboy...
And before the videotape of the Scorpions executing their prisoners surfaced, folks were denying the involvement of the Serbian MUP in the Srebrenica genocide too, weren't they?
Fact of the matter is that Schouten's statement has been overtaken by events and evidence long ago - your posting it as if it had any relevance merely points to the fact that you have made the choice to remain clueless in order to post idiot denials of a well established event.
You are hopelessly stuck Hopelless.
Stuck in a Soros-inspired secularization model fantasy world of genocide denial...like the Muslim Turks your kissing bloody cousins.
As for Schouten and others: he was there and he is an eyewitness to the truth...many here are trying to save you by throwing your a rope, but instead you keep on hanging yourself with the lies perpetrated by the mass media and international financial interests.
But your cluelessness matters not: A Sarkozy victoire will go far to dampen any thoughts about the kosovo frankenstein nightmare Clintonistas tried to foster.
he was there and he is an eyewitness to the truth
That he didn't see anything, sure.
But other eyewitnesses did, and have been supported by physical evidence recovered from the execution sites and the mass graves.
So attempting to rely upon Schouten to maintain an argument from ignorance is, as I said earlier, cluelessness on your part.
Yep, the Muhammedan troops fleeing from Srebrenica ran into subsequent Serbian forces and were dealt a severe defeat.
Sounds like a recipe for defeating the Jihadist and the Dhimmi scum who knee before them!
Those faked tapes couldn’t be more laughable if Dan Rather had presented them! LOL!
Is life as a Soros fluffer that rewarding to you?
Hey dhimmi man-—One honest eyewitness is worth more than all the media doctored Moore docs fantasy pics you can come up with.
The logical error of your argument has already been pointed out to you.
I guess it's just too much for you to understand.
Maybe if someone with an IQ above 70 tried explaining it since you claim that having someone with a lower IQ failed on your earlier post.
HoppieHelot on a tear...Oooh the dhimmi dares to respond.
Atrocity stories are a classic and effective way to motivate hatred agains an enemy you are out to destroy. Poland attacked Germany on 1 Septembr 1939, right? The British press in 1914 had “Huns” raping every maiden in Belgium. The “Ulster Massacre of 1641” was a hoax by London to foment hatred of the Irish; it was intended to “justify” all-out war for centuries on the Irish, citing numbers of victims that were astronomically in excess of the number of Protestants in Ireland. And then there’s that big hit ‘The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” which “proved” that Jews were out to exterminate Gentiles.
WHEN DID THE “PRESSTITUTES” (thanks for that to Ilana Mercer) FIRST START USING THE PHRASE The Srebrenica Massacre [of x-thousands of Muslim men and boys]?
When did the Srebrenica Massacre story break?
No reports from 10 July 1995 and the immediately ensuing days and weeks ever refer to the massacre of Muslim men and boys. The numbers ranged from 2,000 to 8,000 and 10,000...
From Iran, no mention of a massacre having taken place:
Iranian foreign minister [Velayati], in a message to the UN secretary-general, has asked for immediate action to PREVENT a massacre of the defenceless people of Srebrenica by the Serb rebels. SOURCE: Vision of the Islamic Republic of Iran Network 1, Tehran, in Persian 0930 gmt 11 Jul 95; Source: Voice of the Islamic Republic of Iran Network 1, Tehran, in Persian 0930 gmt 11 Jul 95; SECTION: Part 4 Middle East; THE MIDDLE EAST; IRAN; ME/2353/MED. Message to UN secretary-general. Text of report by Iranian TV on 11th July.
From the front, no mention of a massacre having taken place:
Reports from the front in mid-July 1995, e.g. Chris Hedges in the New York Times of 18 July 1995, reported that thousands of armed Muslim fighters slipped through Serb lines under fire and arriving safe in Tuzla, held by Muslim forces (and a US garrison).
The lag time between as yet unbaptized Srebrenica Massacre on 10-11 July 1995 and the first press reports is over a month. David Rohde, who spearheaded the story that became known as the Srebrenica Massacre, did not himself use any such phrase or make such a claim. In his story in the Guardian of 19 August 1995 we find I saw what appeared to be a decomposing human leg protruding from freshly turned dirt He repeated Albrights fabrication about a massacre in a soccer stadium in a nearby town, [where] human faeces, blood, and other evidence indicated large numbers of people were CONFINED, and PERHAPS shot. Also: United Nations official estimate that 4,000 to 6,000 Muslim men are still MISSING in the wake of the Srebrenica and Zepa ASSAULTS.
The news would have still been hot when Zbigniew Brzezinski wrote an Op-Ed piece in The New Republic of 7 August 1995, under the headline: AFTER SREBRENICA. Zbig Brzezinski says only that something awful MIGHT happen.
Nowhere does Brzezinski mention a Srebrenica massacre. That catch phrase does not appear until weeks after the alleged event. It will not be found in the press until the American-sponsored Croatian Storm (Oluja) on Serb Krajina in August-September 1995.
(In)Consistency: Madeleine Korbel Albright, whose Albright Group now has the franchise for the cell phone business in Kosovo, brought the earliest allegation of a POSSIBLE Serb massacre of Muslims on August 11, 1995. But the chief United States delegate to the United Nations told a closed session of the Security Council only that 2,000 to 2,700 MISSING “Bosnians” (i.e. Muslims; Serbs and Croats, like “Diocletian” are Bosnians, too) from the Srebrenica enclave MIGHT HAVE BEEN shot by the Bosnian Serbs. She did not use the formulation Srebrenica massacre.
So, the numbers in Albrights document and subsequent tellings and re-tellings are not consistent.
LEXIS-NEXIS searches now permit us to track down and date press reports on whatever story. Readers can see for themselves what results turn up in searches dated between 10 July 1995 and the beginning of October 1995, using parameters such as
(Srebrenica AND massacre)
(Srebrenica AND missing)
Srebrenica AND 7000 OR 8000)
(7000-8000 men and boys)
(Koranically, once boys attain the age of fifteen, they are warriors for Islam.) Remeber boy bombers in Israel.
Did the Srebrenica Massacre happen? Draw your own conclusions.
Why the absence of reports of a “Srebrenica Massacre”? Simple. There was nothing to report. That is, until the US needed a lie to smokescreen Europe’s biggst ethnic cleansing since World War II. This was “Storm”, i.e. Honest Bill Clinton’s US (MPRI) attack of August-September 1995 on Krajina’s native population, Serbs.
This was Europe’s biggest ethnic cleansing since World War II. It took a BIG Lie to conceal it, plus a bunch of presstitutes and a voyeuristic public that’s hooked on Cop TV shows, Judge Judy et al., Jerry Springer, Maurie Povich and RAPE headlines.
Mike Wallace and a score of other Free Pess newshawks went went to Srebrenica in 1995. He’s not one to miss a spectacular story. He didn’t file any.
REMEMBER THE MAINE-REMEMBER TONKIN GULF-REMEMBER JENIN