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Lawful incest may be on its way (Santorum was right)
Boston Globe ^ | 5/2/2007 | Jeff Jacoby

Posted on 05/02/2007 10:27:48 AM PDT by Uncledave

WHEN THE BBC invited me onto one of its talk shows recently to talk about the day's hot topic -- legalizing adult incest -- I thought of Rick Santorum.

Back in 2003, as the Supreme Court was preparing to rule in Lawrence v. Texas, a case challenging the constitutionality of laws criminalizing homosexual sodomy, then-Senator Santorum caught holy hell for warning out that if the law were struck down, there would be no avoiding the slippery slope.

"If the Supreme Court says you have the right to consensual sex within your home," he told a reporter, "then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything."

It was a common-sensical observation, though you wouldn't have known it from the nail-spitting it triggered in some quarters. When the justices, voting 6-3, did in fact declare it unconstitutional for any state to punish consensual gay sex, the dissenters echoed Santorum's point. "State laws against bigamy, same-sex marriage, adult incest, prostitution, masturbation, adultery, fornication, bestiality, and obscenity are . . . called into question by today's decision," Justice Antonin Scalia wrote for the minority. Now, Time magazine acknowledges: "It turns out the critics were right."

Time's attention, like the BBC's, has been caught by the legal battles underway to decriminalize incest between consenting adults. An article last month by Time reporter Michael Lindenberger titled "Should Incest Be Legal?" highlights the case of Paul Lowe, an Ohio man convicted of incest for having sex with his 22-year-old stepdaughter.

(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: celebrateperversity; consentingadults; incest; onebranchfamilytrees; ricksantorum; sexpositiveagenda; slipperyslope
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1 posted on 05/02/2007 10:27:50 AM PDT by Uncledave
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To: Uncledave

I’m not advocating incest by any means, but prosecuting a man for having sex with his 22 year old step-daughter, as creepy as that is, seems wrong, assuming this was consensual. I’m not even sure that’s technically incest in the first place. Would Woody Allen be criminally prosecuted in Ohio?


2 posted on 05/02/2007 10:30:22 AM PDT by Uncledave
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To: Uncledave
an Ohio man convicted of incest for having sex with his 22-year-old stepdaughter

Not that it makes it right, but is it really "incest" if it's his stepdaughter?

3 posted on 05/02/2007 10:31:39 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Uncledave

step daughter?

They aren’t related so it isn’t incest.

It’s a bit creepy though.


4 posted on 05/02/2007 10:32:56 AM PDT by NeoCaveman (A proud member of the Frederalist society.)
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To: Uncledave

Ick !!!


5 posted on 05/02/2007 10:33:37 AM PDT by Ouderkirk (Don't you think it's interesting how death and destruction seems to happen wherever Muslims gather.)
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To: Izzy Dunne

Emotionally, it is incest. Just like Woody Allen with his stepdaughter.


6 posted on 05/02/2007 10:33:58 AM PDT by Mrs.Z
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To: Izzy Dunne

“Not that it makes it right, but is it really “incest” if it’s his stepdaughter?”

Only if while her parent (how long?) he legally adopted her.

Many step-parents do not adopt previous children coming into there new marriage.


7 posted on 05/02/2007 10:34:36 AM PDT by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: NeoCaveman

Perhaps the OH law (stupidly) defines incest to include adult step-children, otherwise how could the DA think this charge could stick?


8 posted on 05/02/2007 10:34:43 AM PDT by Uncledave
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To: Uncledave

We need to bring shame back to its rightful place in society. You can’t legislate morality but social mores need to be voiced by one’s peers. We need MORE judgment by others, not less. Even if certain acts are technically legal, like adult incest, they are WRONG and people need to say so fearlessly.


9 posted on 05/02/2007 10:34:45 AM PDT by Yaelle
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To: Uncledave

I agree. Creepy perhaps. Illegal, no. Steps or in-laws are not blood kin. Greg and Marsha Brady could have had sex and it would not have been incest. I think incest pertains to blood kin.


10 posted on 05/02/2007 10:34:50 AM PDT by bk1000 (A clear conscience is a sure sign of a poor memory)
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To: Izzy Dunne
Yes it is really incest unless you want to also argue that he isn't really the stepdad. He can't have it both ways. Either there is no such thing as a step parent or you can't have sex with your step children.
11 posted on 05/02/2007 10:35:51 AM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: Uncledave

While I realize that every generation has pointed to events that mark the end of days,....

I don’t know when they were ever written with such a bold,broad markers as we have now!


12 posted on 05/02/2007 10:36:16 AM PDT by Jeffrey_D. (Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Yaelle

I don’t think a guy showing off his wife/daughter is going to meet up with a lot of social acceptance anywhere, even in the most liberal areas. I hope I’m right in saying this!


13 posted on 05/02/2007 10:36:25 AM PDT by Uncledave
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To: Uncledave

I don’t know where their “definition” of incest comes from, but I’m pretty sure “step” is not in there...........


14 posted on 05/02/2007 10:36:31 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: Mrs.Z

Of course we’re on a slippery slope. the same arguments that are being made for same sex marriage can be made for incest or any other twosome or group relationship.

In Justice Scalia’s dissent in Lawrence vs. Texas, he pointed out this reasoning, and that the case could be the end of any type of “morals” legislation. If we’re going to say anything consenting adults do is ok, then that anything can be things we would rather not think about. It goes beyond consenting homosexual relationships.


15 posted on 05/02/2007 10:36:48 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: Uncledave

Sadly I don’t think I’d win if I was every on a game show called “Know Your Ohio Revised Code”


16 posted on 05/02/2007 10:36:48 AM PDT by NeoCaveman (A proud member of the Frederalist society.)
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To: Uncledave

The state of Arkansas is rejoicing!!!!!!


17 posted on 05/02/2007 10:37:23 AM PDT by Hydroshock (Duncan Hunter For President, checkout gohunter08.com.)
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To: Izzy Dunne
Not that it makes it right, but is it really "incest" if it's his stepdaughter?

Yeah, and also what if she's hot?

18 posted on 05/02/2007 10:37:45 AM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: NeoCaveman

Technically, sex with one’s stepdaughter might be sexual battery:

ORC 2907.03 Sexual battery.
(A) No person shall engage in sexual conduct with another, not the spouse of the offender, when any of the following apply: ... (5) The offender is the other person’s natural or adoptive parent, or a stepparent, or guardian, custodian, or person in loco parentis of the other person.

Don’t know if that applies once the step-daughter reaches adulthood, though.


19 posted on 05/02/2007 10:37:54 AM PDT by piytar
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To: Uncledave
I’m not advocating incest by any means, but prosecuting a man for having sex with his 22 year old step-daughter, as creepy as that is, seems wrong, assuming this was consensual.

If you're not advocating it, why does it seem wrong?

20 posted on 05/02/2007 10:38:12 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: Mrs.Z
Emotionally, it is incest. But we're talking legally............
21 posted on 05/02/2007 10:38:19 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: bk1000

Marsha Brady? What would Cindy think?


22 posted on 05/02/2007 10:38:51 AM PDT by juliej (vote gop)
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To: Hydroshock
The state of Arkansas is rejoicing!!!!!!

West Virginia is in ecstasy!........

23 posted on 05/02/2007 10:39:46 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: juliej

Marsha!.....Marsha!.....Marsha!.......always Marsha!........


24 posted on 05/02/2007 10:40:42 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: NeoCaveman
It is not biological incest, but familial incest, if that is the best word. It would fall under the the Biblical list of what sexual contact is forbidden. But while the Bible is the foundation of our laws, it is not the law itself, so the State is free to act as it pleases, which it clearly does now more than ever.

Having said that, it should come as no surprise that the advocates of this change would choose a nonsense complaint to show why the change should be made. This has been the exact tactic towards the entire arena of laws that touch on sexual activity, the acme of which is that we allow millions of abortions for the sake of the few pregnancies that come from rape or incest.

25 posted on 05/02/2007 10:40:54 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: Red Badger
Tennessee is not far behind them either.
26 posted on 05/02/2007 10:41:03 AM PDT by Hydroshock (Duncan Hunter For President, checkout gohunter08.com.)
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To: Uncledave

This is not incest. Come back when there is a real story. This is just for theatrics. An adult stepdaughter...no blood is not incest. I definitely don’t want people to pass laws that advocate incest but at least get a case that we can legitimately complain about.


27 posted on 05/02/2007 10:41:41 AM PDT by napscoordinator (.)
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To: Uncledave
The homosexual agenda is only about painfully abusing innocent boys for a supposed increase of power.

How soon before America goes back to calling female traits, observations, and attitudes as "people's," not "women's," "girl's," or "female's," as not to offend homosexuals, as Oprah led us in the 90's?

28 posted on 05/02/2007 10:41:58 AM PDT by 100-Fold_Return (MY GOSH!! That's too CHEAP!!! :>)
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To: NeoCaveman

I used to work with a woman who married her step-brother. They were raised together since they were about 10-years-old. Totally gave me the heebie-jeebies.


29 posted on 05/02/2007 10:42:32 AM PDT by Millee (Tagline free since 10/20/06)
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To: Uncledave; NeoCaveman; Ouderkirk
I’m not advocating incest by any means, but prosecuting a man for having sex with his 22 year old step-daughter, as creepy as that is
 
In all fairness, you guys are way over the line calling it creepy if we haven't even seen what she looks like. 

Owl_Eagle

If what I just wrote made you sad or angry,
it was probably just a joke.

30 posted on 05/02/2007 10:42:41 AM PDT by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my Dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: Yaelle

“We need to bring shame back to its rightful place in society.”

It ain’t gonna happen anywhere this side of the Second Coming.


31 posted on 05/02/2007 10:44:27 AM PDT by oldfart (The most dangerous man is the one who has nothing left to lose.)
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To: Red Badger

Yes, and Woody Allen ended up marrying his. But think of the bizarre permutations of the definition of “family.” (Like we don’t have enough of those already.)


32 posted on 05/02/2007 10:44:35 AM PDT by Mrs.Z
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To: bk1000

“Greg and Marsha Brady could have had sex and it would not have been incest. I think incest pertains to blood kin.”

You are correct. Incest pertains to sexual relationshops involving blood kin, and blood kin only - be the “relationship” parent/child or sibling/sibling or, in most (if not all) states, cousin/cousin.


33 posted on 05/02/2007 10:44:44 AM PDT by DangerDanger ("I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism." - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Mrs.Z

Abraham married his half-sister, Isaac and Jacob their cousins, and they all turned out okay........


34 posted on 05/02/2007 10:46:18 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: DangerDanger

cousin/cousin?......1st,2nd,3rd?......


35 posted on 05/02/2007 10:47:15 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: Red Badger

I’ve heard Rudy can answer that.


36 posted on 05/02/2007 10:49:32 AM PDT by AFreeBird (Will NOT vote for Rudy. <--- notice the period)
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To: Uncledave

We can only hope...


37 posted on 05/02/2007 10:49:35 AM PDT by Little Ray (Rudy Guiliani: if his wives can't trust him, why should we?)
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To: Izzy Dunne
>>an Ohio man convicted of incest for having sex with his 22-year-old stepdaughter<<

What if the stepdaughter was 12 yrs. old when it started? What if this guy had been at the girl for years before she decided that was what she wanted at the time of this guy’s arrest? There must be some morality in the laws if society wants to protect the innocents.

Rick Santorum was definitely right about this slippery slope.

38 posted on 05/02/2007 10:50:21 AM PDT by ishabibble (ALL AMERICAN INFIDEL)
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To: Millee
a woman who married her step-brother. They were raised together since they were about 10-years-old. Totally gave me the heebie-jeebies.

I knew a woman like that, married her older stepbrother, they'd been raised together from at least that age, maybe younger.

Yeah, it was....creepy.

39 posted on 05/02/2007 10:50:40 AM PDT by prairiebreeze (Too blessed to be stressed.)
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To: AFreeBird

???.....


40 posted on 05/02/2007 10:51:01 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: Yaelle
You can’t legislate morality

Yes you can. All laws are based on someone's assessment of what is moral. Whether or not you agree with that assessment is immaterial. You're still subject to penalties if you breach it.

41 posted on 05/02/2007 10:51:35 AM PDT by Tree of Liberty (Islam delenda est)
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To: Red Badger

Poor Jan! Always left out thanks to Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!


42 posted on 05/02/2007 10:52:09 AM PDT by juliej (vote gop)
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To: Hydroshock
The state of Arkansas is rejoicing!!!!!!

Ahem.... Why, pray tell?

43 posted on 05/02/2007 10:52:15 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (If you're conservative, then support a conservative candidate like Duncan Hunter for POTUS.)
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To: napscoordinator
This is not incest. Come back when there is a real story. This is just for theatrics.

I maintain that there is an agenda.

Homosexual marriage. Let's get people used to that idea. Sure, it starts out creepy but once they get used to it, it will seem like no big deal.

Marriage between step-siblings. Let's get people used to that idea. Sure, it starts out creepy but once they get used to it, it will seem like no big deal. I mean, it's not really incest.

Marriage between actual siblings. Let's get people used to that idea. Sure, it starts out creepy but once they get used to it, it will seem like no big deal.

And polygamy. And child-sex. And bestiality. And ...

44 posted on 05/02/2007 10:53:17 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy ("Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented worker' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed phar)
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To: juliej

What were the 3 Brady boys’ names?.........


45 posted on 05/02/2007 10:53:49 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: Yaelle
You can’t legislate morality

I agree with your sensible post, of course.

But this phrase has stuck in my craw since the 1960s. You can't legislate morality? Really? Then what are laws against stealing and murder?

It seems to me that if you consent to the idea of a body of criminal law, you can't legislate anything but morality. Pursuant to that, I don't see why adultery, sodomy, suicide, public obscenity, or incest should be excluded from legal censure. They are not "victimless" crimes. Breaches of morals are serious breaches of public order, which belongs to everyone, and ultimately to God.

No part of the criminal law, even seemingly unarguable prohibitions against theft, treason, and murder, can survive in a society that refuses to criminalize immorality—because that is a society that has refused to recognize right and wrong.

46 posted on 05/02/2007 10:54:35 AM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: Yaelle
We need to bring shame back to its rightful place in society. You can’t legislate morality but social mores need to be voiced by one’s peers. We need MORE judgment by others, not less. Even if certain acts are technically legal, like adult incest, they are WRONG and people need to say so fearlessly.

Exactly. Except on the legislate morality part...I agree to the extent that the law cannot make the heart moral. But the law can and should legislate against certain acts of immorality. Their heart may be immoral but their actions don't have to be. Otherwise how can we have laws against public nudity or adult-child sex? On what basis is there even an age-of-consent? Or how about the limits placed on pornography? Why any consideration of decency at all? But you are right to say that the idea of shame should be enough to cover many things that the law does not address. But increasingly the law is actually being used to call that "hate speech" and "discrimination" and "bigotry." The law is not leaving the public with the tools to address immorality.

47 posted on 05/02/2007 10:55:35 AM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: Red Badger

Abraham’s kid (Isaac) was okay.

Isaac’s kids, 50% okay.

Jacob’s kids, only 10% okay.

Law of diminishing returns, I guess. LOL


48 posted on 05/02/2007 10:55:43 AM PDT by Mrs.Z
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To: Red Badger

Peter, Gregg and who was the third? My kid would know - watches it in reruns! I can’t get over “Carol’s” hair.


49 posted on 05/02/2007 10:55:47 AM PDT by juliej (vote gop)
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To: Uncledave; All

Wait till the Muslims start advocating for first cousin marriage...it’s already a reality under our noses anyway.

I recommend an excellent article on the topic—very timely

http://www.isteve.com/cousin_marriage_conundrum.htm


50 posted on 05/02/2007 10:56:04 AM PDT by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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