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Native American DNA Found In UK
BBC ^ | 4-5-2007

Posted on 05/05/2007 2:28:21 PM PDT by blam

Native American DNA found in UK

By Paul Rincon
Science reporter, BBC News

Doreen (left) with daughter Rebecca and granddaughter Anais

DNA testing has uncovered British descendents of Native Americans brought to the UK centuries ago as slaves, translators or tribal representatives.

Genetic analysis turned up two white British women with a DNA signature characteristic of American Indians.

An Oxford scientist said it was extremely unusual to find these DNA lineages in Britons with no previous knowledge of Native American ancestry.

Indigenous Americans were brought over to the UK as early as the 1500s.

Many were brought over as curiosities; but others travelled here in delegations during the 18th Century to petition the British imperial government over trade or protection from other tribes.

Experts say it is probable that some stayed in Britain and married into local communities.

Doreen Isherwood, 64, from Putney, and Anne Hall, 53, of Huddersfield, only found out about their New World heritage after paying for commercial DNA ancestry tests.

Mrs Isherwood told BBC News: "I was expecting the results to say I belonged to one of the common European tribes, but when I got them back, my first thought was that they were a mistake.

"It rocked me completely. It made think: who am I?"

Ancestral home

The chartered physiotherapist studied for a degree at the University of North Carolina, but had no idea she possessed Native American ancestors. She said she came from a long line of Lancashire cotton weavers.

Raleigh brought Indians from the Jamestown area to England

Mrs Isherwood added that she was "immensely proud" of her newfound heritage, which has renewed a long-standing interest in Native American culture.

Anne Hall, who works as a private educational tutor, commented: "I was thrilled to bits. It was a very pleasant surprise. To have Native American blood is very exotic."

She said she now aimed to investigate her family history in an attempt to track down the source of her rare genetic lineage.

Mrs Isherwood says her American antecedent must have arrived in Britain in the 18th or 17th Centuries. She has traced her maternal ancestors back to 1798 and has found no sign of New World progenitors.

Maternal clans

The tests taken by both women were based on analysis of DNA inside the "powerhouses" of our cells: the mitochondria.

Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is passed down from mother to daughter more or less unchanged; but changes, or mutations, accumulate in the DNA sequence over successive generations.

Pocahontas was the daughter of a Native American chief

Scientists can use these changes to classify mtDNAs into broad types (called haplogroups) which, to some extent, reflect a person's geographical origin.

Mrs Isherwood and Mrs Hall possessed haplogroups characteristic of the indigenous people of the Americas, which are referred to as A and C.

"It's very unusual. Most of the people we test belong to one of the European maternal clans," said Professor Bryan Sykes, whose company Oxford Ancestors carried out the tests for Doreen and Anne.

Professor Sykes, also a professor of human genetics at the University of Oxford, said: "There are matches between [Doreen and Anne] and particular Native American tribes, but that doesn't necessarily mean those are the tribes their ancestors came from."

Trickle of immigrants

This month marks the 400th anniversary of Jamestown, the first permanent English-speaking settlement in North America.

Alden Vaughan, a professor emeritus at Columbia University, in New York, has written a book on American Indians in Britain. He said indigenous peoples from the New World began arriving in Britain as early as the sixteenth century.

"It started earlier than Jamestown. A number were brought over through the 1500s, mainly as curiosities," he told BBC News. Others were taken to Britain to learn English and go back to the colonies as translators.

"Sir Walter Raleigh brought back several individuals from the Jamestown area and from the Orinoco valley. Pocahontas went to England in 1616 and died there the next year.

"She was accompanied by several of her tribal associates. Some of them stayed in England for several years. I don't know of any marriages or even relationships between those women and Englishmen, but it is certainly possible.

"Later in the 17th Century, Native American slaves were brought over. I don't know much about them, because all the evidence I have are ads in London newspapers for runaway bond-servants, described as being Indians."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: americans; dna; godsgravesglyphs; native; uk
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Imagine my suprise to discover that my mtDNA was from the Sa'ami's (Laplanders) and even moreso to discover it was from the Skolt Sa'ami.(Rarest DNA in all of Europe, haplogroup V) My question: How did a Skolt Sa'ami become a south Alabama farm girl? (My mother)

Having your DNA anaysed is becoming popular and I expect to see any number of suprises of this sort (article) in the near future.

BTW, Professor Bryan Sykes has done extensive DNA work in the British Isles and in his latest book, Saxons, Vikings And Celts, he says he can't find any traces of 'Black Irish' or even the Picts in Scotland, DNA wise, they're all the same people.

1 posted on 05/05/2007 2:28:22 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv; Coyoteman; Pharmboy

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 05/05/2007 2:29:03 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

ot oh. this is going to mess up all those contracts and treaties... who’s going to owe reparations to whom?


3 posted on 05/05/2007 2:31:50 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Thank you St. Jude.)
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To: blam

Too bad they didn’t steal more of our genes, they would be better off today! Imagine, a Britain with Tsalagi brains running everything!


4 posted on 05/05/2007 2:40:16 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT, NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
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To: blam

Ruh Roh. A nappy headed Arapaho in the woodpile.....


5 posted on 05/05/2007 3:09:35 PM PDT by Dumpster Baby ("Hope somebody finds me before the rats do .....")
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To: AdmSmith; AnalogReigns; Cacique; caryatid; Celtjew Libertarian; CobaltBlue; concentric circles; ...
Genetic
Genealogy
Send FReepmail if you want on/off GGP list
Marty = Paternal Haplogroup O(2?)(M175)
Maternal Haplogroup H
GG LINKS:
African Ancestry
DNAPrint Genomics
FamilyTree DNA
mitosearch
Nat'l Geographic Genographic Project
Oxford Ancestors
RelativeGenetics
Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation
Trace Genetics
ybase
ysearch
The List of Ping Lists

6 posted on 05/05/2007 4:00:13 PM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: Dumpster Baby

You owe me a new keyboard! ROTFLMAO


7 posted on 05/05/2007 4:06:21 PM PDT by Duck Fan
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To: Duck Fan
The only extra I have is this Pirate's Keyboard:


8 posted on 05/05/2007 4:24:02 PM PDT by Dumpster Baby ("Hope somebody finds me before the rats do .....")
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To: blam

My brother had his 12 marker done and had absolutely NO MATCHES. My mom’s cousin (different family) just had his done and had 450 twelve marker matches! He’s upgrading his test to narrow it down. But we’re still trying to figure my brother out. Either there aren’t alot of male descendants in that line, or not many have had their DNA tested.


9 posted on 05/05/2007 7:01:23 PM PDT by Jessarah
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To: blam

In my family, throughout many lines, there is a story that we are descended from Capt. John Smith and Pocahontas. No official records exist to prove it, but the story is not entirely implausible.


10 posted on 05/05/2007 7:10:45 PM PDT by EternalVigilance ("A [Free] Republic, if you can keep it.")
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To: Dumpster Baby

I believe that they are from the Fugawes..


11 posted on 05/05/2007 7:35:49 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: Jessarah
"My brother had his 12 marker done and had absolutely NO MATCHES."

What do you mean? He didn't match any of the known haplogroups? What?

12 posted on 05/05/2007 7:37:50 PM PDT by blam
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To: EternalVigilance
"In my family, throughout many lines, there is a story that we are descended from Capt. John Smith and Pocahontas. No official records exist to prove it, but the story is not entirely implausible."

Yeah! Well, my mother's people invented Santa Claus and delivering presents in a reindeer sleigh. (So there!)

13 posted on 05/05/2007 7:39:26 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Heh. Well, I think the evidence that does exist is quite interesting.


14 posted on 05/05/2007 7:40:57 PM PDT by EternalVigilance ("A [Free] Republic, if you can keep it.")
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Well, Tsalagi brain power of the Smith, not Mankiller variety. :)

(Good Peace) Tohidu,
Anisahoni (Wildcat) Clan


15 posted on 05/05/2007 7:43:29 PM PDT by WildcatClan (Just wait till the Pretendicans have to debate, Hunter in '08)
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To: the invisib1e hand

They have a right to put a casino in Buckingham Palace.


16 posted on 05/05/2007 7:44:06 PM PDT by Ieatfrijoles ("Some hams hanging in the kitchen were taken out for burial")
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To: sheik yerbouty
"I believe that they are from the Fugawes."

Do you mean the Blue Fugates?

The Blue Fugates

17 posted on 05/05/2007 7:47:31 PM PDT by blam
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To: EternalVigilance

“Tradition” is where you start! There’s NO reason you couldn’t be their descendants! There would be MANY, and why shouldn’t you be one of them?


18 posted on 05/05/2007 7:47:35 PM PDT by bannie
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To: blam

No, bot I neber knew that Bluish people lived in those parts..


19 posted on 05/05/2007 7:51:19 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
Imagine, a Britain with Tsalagi brains running everything!

Hey. Spell it right!

Go Ahead: Click It!

20 posted on 05/05/2007 7:54:32 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: bannie

There’s an historical account of them meeting in England, after she had thought for years that he was dead. She was very upset, and her actions sure seem to be those of a jilted lover. She died shortly thereafter. Supposedly, they had had two children, Peregrin and Mary. The family says we’re descended from Peregrin, who was brought back to England from Jamestown. His granddaughter, also Mary, came back to America and married into a Quaker family, the Hiatts.


21 posted on 05/05/2007 7:54:46 PM PDT by EternalVigilance ("A [Free] Republic, if you can keep it.")
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To: bannie

Looking into these things has given me an even greater appreciation for our country’s history. It’s been very gratifying! :-)


22 posted on 05/05/2007 7:56:08 PM PDT by EternalVigilance ("A [Free] Republic, if you can keep it.")
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To: EternalVigilance

That’s enough detailed “tradition” to make me think it must hold truth in it. I hope that you can get some info—now that the internet opens up so many avenues—and let you know the whole story.

That’s just too cool to let alone!!!


23 posted on 05/05/2007 7:59:35 PM PDT by bannie
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To: blam
He has a haplogroup---R1a1


He just had no exact matches. He had a couple of people who was two mutations off, but that's it. No one matched up exactly with his 12 markers (Alleles).

24 posted on 05/05/2007 8:02:54 PM PDT by Jessarah
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To: Ieatfrijoles
They have a right to put a casino in Buckingham Palace.

Just think! Then all the aging rockers can finally get to play Buckingham Palace.

25 posted on 05/05/2007 8:21:38 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Thank you St. Jude.)
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To: Jessarah
"He has a haplogroup---R1a1 "

He came from the Indus Valley about 30,000 years ago, same as me, R1b. He spent the Last Glacial Maximum(LGM, the coldest time during the Ice Age) in the Ukraine refuge while I went on south into the Franco-Iberian refuge. He may be related to Somerled who is Norse.

Haplogroup R1a1

26 posted on 05/05/2007 8:22:31 PM PDT by blam
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To: the invisib1e hand
ot oh. this is going to mess up all those contracts and treaties... who’s going to owe reparations to whom?

Actually it simplifies everthing. Everyone just pay reparations to themselves!

27 posted on 05/05/2007 8:22:52 PM PDT by TX Bluebonnet
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To: blam

Isherwood

Great name in literature.


28 posted on 05/05/2007 8:25:18 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Just say no to Brady Bunch Republicans.)
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To: blam
"He has a haplogroup---R1a1 "

He came from the Indus Valley about 30,000 years ago, same as me, R1b. He spent the Last Glacial Maximum(LGM, the coldest time during the Ice Age) in the Ukraine refuge while I went on south into the Franco-Iberian refuge. He may be related to Somerled who is Norse.

Haplogroup R1a1


Cool!

We're doin' science now!

29 posted on 05/05/2007 8:29:44 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: blam

Found an unknown (lost?) relative when I got a perfect 25/25 match on my DNA. Familytreedna bump. http://www.familytreedna.com/


30 posted on 05/05/2007 8:30:33 PM PDT by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: blam
Is that where they tracked many Scandinavians from? Because I’m of mixed paternal Swede and Norwegian blood. I need to do the test. I’m the stereotypical viking looking guy 6’-8” with blonde hair. Just watch I’ll have Chinese ancestry or something.
31 posted on 05/05/2007 8:36:51 PM PDT by miliantnutcase
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To: Coyoteman
"We're doin' science now!"

Hey...thanks doc.
We'll keep chipping at this haplocrap, and one day we'll 'get it.'

32 posted on 05/05/2007 8:44:22 PM PDT by blam
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To: Drango

I released my mt and y-chromosome DNA to FamilyTreeDNA too. They said I was the first with my surname name to ‘register’ and did I want to start a surname project...I don’t know. What do you think?


33 posted on 05/05/2007 8:47:25 PM PDT by blam
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To: miliantnutcase

If you go back more than 4 gens in the americas, you are gonna have some injun blood in ya. I know I got some. I don’t even need a test to tell me that.

I got the spoon shaped incisors. Males in my family are late to learn to talk and early to learn to walk, mechanically gifted...and some troubles with alcohol, lactose, diabetes.

These are all amerind traits.


34 posted on 05/05/2007 8:54:43 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: blam

DNA has revolutionized genealogy. And a surname project is the way to go unless your surname is very, very obscure. Does your surname have a message board on ancestry.com or genealogy.com? That suggests there are others in you clan hunting for their relatives. However, if you are the “first” one in, by default you almost become the administrator of the project. For most people that’s fun... but it can be work.


35 posted on 05/05/2007 8:56:04 PM PDT by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: blam

What can you do if you find out that your you’r own Grand-Paw?


36 posted on 05/05/2007 8:56:23 PM PDT by fella (Respect does not equal fear unless your a tyrant.)
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To: miliantnutcase
"Is that where they tracked many Scandinavians from? Because I’m of mixed paternal Swede and Norwegian blood. I need to do the test. I’m the stereotypical viking looking guy 6’-8” with blonde hair. Just watch I’ll have Chinese ancestry or something."

LOL! I've always been told I look like Paul Newman (lots of 'luck' with the ladies) but my son says I now look more like Gene Hackman. My mother is a Sa'ami...what the hell?

37 posted on 05/05/2007 8:58:45 PM PDT by blam
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To: mamelukesabre
"I got the spoon shaped incisors."

That is called Sinodont teeth. The oldest example found is 23,000 years old and was from around Lake Baikal. (the world's deepest lake.) BTW, Kennewick Man has Sundadont teeth.

38 posted on 05/05/2007 9:04:29 PM PDT by blam
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To: mamelukesabre
"I got the spoon shaped incisors. Males in my family are late to learn to talk and early to learn to walk, mechanically gifted...and some troubles with alcohol, lactose, diabetes"

Do They Have Mongoloid Spots on their buttocks?


39 posted on 05/05/2007 9:07:06 PM PDT by blam
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To: Drango
"However, if you are the “first” one in, by default you almost become the administrator of the project. For most people that’s fun... but it can be work."

They sent an email saying I was the first. I assigned it to my sister, lol. Our surname is Lamb.

40 posted on 05/05/2007 9:10:05 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Interesting. I had all four first premolars pulled as a kid because my dentist said they needed it to prevent crowding. I don’t know why, but my parents agreed.

Anyways, I still got them in a box and just looked at them. I got one root on the top ones and two roots on the bottom ones.

Oh, by the way...the 2 big molars on top, I forget what they are called, are different on Caucasian males than everyone else in the world. Only caucasian males have an extra little bump on the front inside corner of the two big molars. I have these extra little bumps.

So I have hybrid caucasian-chinese teeth.

41 posted on 05/05/2007 9:13:32 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: blam

No!

I never heard of that! What is it?


42 posted on 05/05/2007 9:14:49 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: blam

Lamb??? Check the upper right....http://www.familytreedna.com/
There are 15 members already.


43 posted on 05/05/2007 9:17:52 PM PDT by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: mamelukesabre
When I was a kid my molars had deep “indentations” in the tops and fronts. The dentist convinced my parents to have them filled because they would be prone to decay. Kinda like a mouth full of incisors. As far as I know; I’m the only one in my family who had this.

Does that dental trait fit any group?

44 posted on 05/05/2007 9:18:11 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: blam

Hi Blam. This is very strange. Laplanders? English Indians?
How much trouble was it to find that out?

Would be very nice if this could somehow end racism, but I doubt it.


45 posted on 05/05/2007 9:20:57 PM PDT by Sam Cree (absolute reality)
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To: Drango
" Project Members Description Lamb 15 The Lamb Family Project is open to all who are interested in... "

Hmmmm. I wonder why the sent that email. I'm going to see if I can find it. Thanks.

46 posted on 05/05/2007 9:21:01 PM PDT by blam
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To: Grizzled Bear; blam

I have no idea. Maybe blam has an idea


47 posted on 05/05/2007 9:23:00 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: blam

http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/l/lamb/


48 posted on 05/05/2007 9:25:53 PM PDT by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: blam

You know what though? I just remembered something. My little sister had ONE of those buttock marks. It was just a birth mark to us. But looking at that photo I’m fairly certain her birthmark was one of those marks.


49 posted on 05/05/2007 9:26:25 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: Drango
support@familytreedna.com
Subject: Your Surname and Family Tree DNA
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 11:58:12 -0500

Thank you for transferring your record from the Genographic Project to Family Tree DNA.

While we have the largest Y-DNA database in the world, with over 95,000 records, we have noticed that you are the first person with your surname to join our database. We would like to take this opportunity to invite you to start a surname project for your name so that you can further your genealogical research. Starting a project is very easy to do and involves no additional cost. In fact, we offer discounted test prices for the project's participants.

Currently we have over 4,000 surname projects underway at Family Tree DNA - about 85% of all projects to date worldwide. We receive over 100,000 visitors a month to our web site, which means an increased chance for individuals to become aware of the existence of a project with your surname (and variants), join it and from there perhaps open new doors to your genealogy.

We have no project set up fee, we offer free analysis of the results, and provide comparative tools for calculating genetic distance between group members. The group administrator page includes access to the surname project at our Family Tree DNA website, where you can easily order kits, track participants and download results. We also preserve the DNA for 25 years because we know this technology is in its infancy and new testing options may be developed. This way you and your members do not have to provide another sample.

Please feel free to email us at support@familytreedna.com or call us at 713-868-1438 with any questions you have. We will be happy to give you additional information and to set up your surname project whenever you are ready.

We would like to take the opportunity to ask you to encourage family or friends that have tested with the Genographic Project to transfer their results to Family Tree DNA as well. It will help strengthen our database and increase its genealogical usefulness for you. Thank you!

Remember, DNA is the gene in genealogy!

50 posted on 05/05/2007 9:29:01 PM PDT by blam
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