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GIULIANI URGES CLINTON TO RELEASE ISRAELI SPY (1999, Jonathan Pollard)
Times Union | Sep 29, 1999 | Stewart M. Powell

Posted on 05/06/2007 11:57:38 AM PDT by calcowgirl

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To: tsowellfan
To answer your question, Sometimes it's better to exploit absurdity by being absurb.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt: If your implication is that what Rudy said about Jonathan Pollard is ancient history, you're full of baloney.

The challenges to Giuliani based on his past actions as an executive are as relevant as what Hillary did when she was acting like a tyrant in the White House (Billy Dale & the travel office, Grand Jury testimony that prosecutors didn't believe but couldn't indict her on, etc.). He's got to take the bad with the good about his past, and having gone on record as suggesting the release of an American agent spying for Israel wouldn't be tolerated of a Democrat, either.

Those of us who were warned that the "compassionate conservatism" practiced by then-Governor Bush was more liberal than we were being led to believe feel burned and betrayed. If it weren't for the terrorist attacks that made the war priority number one, Bush's most rock-solid stance would be the opening of the borders to illegal immigrants.

As Jim Robinson said in his controversial thread, this isn't about beating Hillary or Obama, it's about changing the definition of "conservative" for years to come, win or lose; if Giuliani or whoever prevails by being closer to the center than Hillary, Obama, or (ecch) Edwards, it could be curtains for true constructionist jurists in Federal courts from the Supreme Court on down (ever forget that the only reason we have Roberts and Alito today is because Bush made it to a second term and didn't get his wish with Harriet Miers). If he loses, then the message may be the answer is to move further to the center.

101 posted on 05/07/2007 12:38:02 AM PDT by L.N. Smithee
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To: calcowgirl; TommyDale

Rudy’s biggest asset is his uncanny ability to (a) pucker-up, (b) kneel in obeisance, (c) stick his head up the backsides of voting blocs, and (d) pocket campaign contributions——all at the same time.

Rudy’s campaign gear includes reliable kneepads-—and a physician-on-call-—for emergency removals.


102 posted on 05/07/2007 4:11:36 AM PDT by Liz (Hunter: For some candidates, a conservative constituency is an inconvenience. For me, it is my hope.)
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To: Liz; calcowgirl; indylindy

Giuliani is now getting pummeled by the mainstream press, Democrats and the Conservative Republicans. Any bets on how much longer he can stay in the race?


103 posted on 05/07/2007 5:11:47 AM PDT by TommyDale ("Can debate over four hours with no need to call a doctor!")
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To: albee

Well, for the sake of freeing Pollard, I’d vote for Rudy. But I’d much rather vote for a number of the other current candidates, but to set Pollard free is a meritorious and gracious act, itself alone worthy of my vote.


104 posted on 05/07/2007 5:15:39 AM PDT by bvw
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To: TommyDale; calcowgirl; indylindy
Giuliani is now getting pummeled by the mainstream press, Democrats and Conservative Republicans.

Yeah, but he's scared witless by FReepers.


(graphic courtesy of monkapotamus' expertise)

"Oh, please. They're killing me on FR just b/c I had three wives, several
mistresses, was honored by NARAL, donated to Planned Parenthood, and
marched for gay rights under the NAMBLA banner."

105 posted on 05/07/2007 5:54:04 AM PDT by Liz (Hunter: For some candidates, a conservative constituency is an inconvenience. For me, it is my hope.)
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To: Liz
True. I would dare say he is scared beyond “witless”. LOL!
106 posted on 05/07/2007 5:59:05 AM PDT by TommyDale ("Can debate over four hours with no need to call a doctor!")
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To: bvw
...to set Pollard free is a meritorious and gracious act, itself alone worthy of my vote.

Meritorious and gracisous? Would that hold true for every convicted, spying scumbag who sells our national secrets, or is Pollard the only traitor you support?

107 posted on 05/07/2007 9:07:42 AM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: bvw
You're fricking nuts. Pollard should have gotten the chair.

But since he won't, I hope he rots in prison and gets violated regularly from his boyfriends, Bubba and Le-Roy.

108 posted on 05/07/2007 2:29:02 PM PDT by Condor51 (Rudy makes John Kerry look like a Right Wing 'Gun Nut' Extremist)
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To: Condor51

Yet another example of the committed Rudy voter. Scary, huh?


109 posted on 05/07/2007 3:36:58 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl
Pollard's chump change. And the man has already served far more time, and harder time than any comparable case of spying for an ally. Which, young lady, is NOT treason.

See the US Constituion:

Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.
Israel is an ally -- one of our closest allies.

As ever and always hate for Jews blinds a certain percentage. Pollard was chump change. There were are far bigger and more committed spies -- who DO INDEED work for those who would destroy us.

Are you in the same damnably blindered camp of those in our government who condemned the Israeli raid of the Iraq reactor?

110 posted on 05/07/2007 5:43:47 PM PDT by bvw
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To: bvw

I believe I used the word “traitor,” not treason.

traitor
Main Entry: trai·tor
Pronunciation: ‘trA-t&r
Function: noun
1 : one who betrays another’s trust or is false to an obligation or duty
2 : one who commits treason

Pollard betrayed a trust. He failed in his duty to protect U.S. secrets, willingly handing them over to Israel. His actions had repercussions, endangering (and costing) lives of Americans, and setting back U.S. intelligence. You may call that “chump change.” I call it traitorous.

Frankly, I don’t care what country it was. Those who would betray their country deserve the harshest of punishment. Your attempt to turn my comments into “hate for Jews” and calling others “blind” is disgusting.


111 posted on 05/07/2007 6:42:58 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: bvw
As ever and always hate for Jews blinds a certain percentage.

Classic strawman argument. Objective criticism of Israel means someone is a Jew-hater.

112 posted on 05/07/2007 7:02:02 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Ben Franklin, we tried but we couldn't keep it.)
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To: calcowgirl
Frankly, I bet you DO care which country it was. The only disgusting thing, young lady, is for you not to see or acknowledge the Jew hatred that infuses the case.

Let's change Pollard's name. Let's call him Chu Wei, stealing guidance system secrets for China. Or John Smith, stealing sat intel about the region around South Africa for DeBeers -- just to make up a tale. Feel the same way?

113 posted on 05/07/2007 7:13:49 PM PDT by bvw
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To: bvw
The only disgusting thing, young lady, is for you not to see or acknowledge the Jew hatred that infuses the case.

What is truly disappointing is that you use such rhetoric to try to infuse hatred. Sorry. No such hatred present here.

Feel the same way?

Yes. Exactly the same way. A traitor is a traitor is a traitor.

114 posted on 05/07/2007 7:22:30 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl
An idiot is an idiot is an idiot.

I met an idiot savant once. Came into the pizzeria one of my brother's owned. Could multiply seven digit numbers in his head, figure the days between any two dates, and some other interesting tricks.

What feats have you?

115 posted on 05/07/2007 7:26:17 PM PDT by bvw
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To: bvw

Oh, I see. Calling me a “hater” wasn’t good enough.

Because I want to see National Security enforced, you call me an “idiot.”

Resort to personal attacks is highly unbecoming. Good day.


116 posted on 05/07/2007 7:33:54 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl

Well, you are a hater. Trying to hate two at once too. Hate Guiliani and Pollard. Spics and Jews. Otherwise there’s ZERO to the argument for holding Pollard longer. The facts are that he spied for an an ally, and his time already served — mostly in solitary, iirc — is far harder than ANY comparable case.


117 posted on 05/07/2007 7:37:15 PM PDT by bvw
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To: bvw; Admin Moderator

Adminmod:

I believe this poster has gone over the line.

I tried to be as polite as I could be in the presence of personal attacks,
but this is offensive and unwarranted.


118 posted on 05/07/2007 7:41:09 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl
Ted Olson was Pollard's attorney FYI.

Rudy and Olson's position is that Pollard's punishment did not fit the crime when compared to others of the same ilk.

119 posted on 05/07/2007 7:44:59 PM PDT by veronica
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To: calcowgirl; SJackson
GIULIANI BANDWAGON BRANCHES OUT TO ISRAEL

Do you have a problem with that??

Bibi Netanyahu has many fans here. Why shouldn't Rudy, or any American pol, have fans in Israel?

120 posted on 05/07/2007 7:48:09 PM PDT by veronica
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To: Liz
EXCERPT April 21, 2007 -- A group of Israelis has launched a grass-roots effort to get people living in the Jewish state who are eligible to vote in the United States to line up behind Rudy Giuliani, it was reported yesterday. The group, Giuliani Supporters in Israel, was launched by Mordechai Twersky, a onetime candidate for state Assembly in The Bronx ...... "I did this as a private personal initiative, as a proud American and Israeli citizen..." Twersky told the NY Post. He said the Giuliani campaign hadn't set up his group, but that he's been in contact with Team Giuliani......Giuliani has historically been popular with Jewish voters, and took a hard pro-Israel line when he was in office........ In some past elections, planeloads of Israelis with American citizenship have flown to the United States to vote.

Rudy is very popular with Jews. So????????

I hope all the GOP candidates are. Jews are activists, and they have money to contribute. The GOP would love to get the Jewish vote.

121 posted on 05/07/2007 7:51:11 PM PDT by veronica
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To: bvw
Ted Olson & Pollard

"Olson had also gained notability by acting as attorney for convicted spy Jonathan Pollard while he was in private practice. Olson had appealed to United States Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit claiming that during Pollard's trial, the life sentence he received was in violation of the plea bargain agreement, which had specifically taken life off the table. Olson also argued that in violation of said plea bargain, that was grounds for a mistrial. The Court of Appeals, in a panel of three judges, voted 2-1 that no grounds existed for a mistrial. Future Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg cast the deciding vote against Pollard's motion."

122 posted on 05/07/2007 7:59:24 PM PDT by veronica
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To: veronica

There is no punishment too large for those that sell out their country.


123 posted on 05/07/2007 8:02:09 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: veronica; Condor51
Yes. I have a problem with it. I will quote Condor51 from the linked thread:
I don't care if they are Israelis, Mexicans or Martians, but this dual nationality crap is UN AMERICAN.

You cannot serve two masters. You are either an American Citizen loyal ONLY to the USA or you AIN'T - period, end, stop.


124 posted on 05/07/2007 8:03:42 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl
There is a reason our system of justice takes into account both aggravating and mitigating circumstances.

BTW - do you have a problem with Israelis supporting Rudy, or any other American pol? Many supported GWB too.

125 posted on 05/07/2007 8:06:55 PM PDT by veronica
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To: calcowgirl

I just went back and read some of your posts. Great job defending your position. I think some people also use the term ally when isn’t quite relevant. Technically, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt, and a long list of others are our allies. That term can real grey real quick.


126 posted on 05/07/2007 8:08:20 PM PDT by jedward (Mission '08 - Take back the House & Senate. No Negotiations...No Prisoners.)
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To: calcowgirl

Bill Clinton should be in jail too, but aw, what the heck : )


127 posted on 05/07/2007 8:09:31 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! Or Rudy/Hillary if you want to murder conservatism)
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To: calcowgirl

Daniel Pearl, by virtue of his parents being dual citizens, had dual citizenship as well. Would you accuse him of disloyalty?


128 posted on 05/07/2007 8:10:14 PM PDT by veronica
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To: jedward

Are you implying Israel is not an ally? Or that Egypt is as much of an ally as Israel?


129 posted on 05/07/2007 8:11:23 PM PDT by veronica
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To: stephenjohnbanker

A dose of humor :) Hey SJB


130 posted on 05/07/2007 8:12:12 PM PDT by jedward (Mission '08 - Take back the House & Senate. No Negotiations...No Prisoners.)
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To: jedward

HI there! It looked like a bit of humor was called for.


131 posted on 05/07/2007 8:13:20 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! Or Rudy/Hillary if you want to murder conservatism)
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To: veronica

I have a problem with ALL foreigners meddling in U.S. elections.


132 posted on 05/07/2007 8:13:46 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl
Americans living in Israel are not foreigners.

And I assure you no GOP candidate will turn down contributions or support from law-abiding citizens of any country.

Supporting a candidate is called free speech.

133 posted on 05/07/2007 8:16:05 PM PDT by veronica
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To: jedward

Thanks. There are indeed different levels of allies, but that isn’t my point, really. Whether ally or not, our secrets are our secrets. If the U.S. chooses to share those secrets, that is one thing. Those who choose to help themselves serve heavy consequences—and rightfully so.

Pollard’s actions were traitorous. To call him “chump change” should be an insult to all of those wanting to maintain National Security and sovereignty.

(question: is it j edward or jed ward? I was going to type JE but I remember someone posting to you as JW. I’m so confused!!!! LOL)


134 posted on 05/07/2007 8:20:10 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: veronica

“Are you implying Israel is not an ally?”

Nope, I was implying and will say outright that if anyone chooses to use the “it was an ally” as a position of defense, they are opening themselves up to the argument of whether that should be a factor or not.

“Or that Egypt is as much of an ally as Israel?”

If someone wants to use the ally position, then they have to defend that very scenario. What does the Department of State declare?


135 posted on 05/07/2007 8:21:19 PM PDT by jedward (Mission '08 - Take back the House & Senate. No Negotiations...No Prisoners.)
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To: tsowellfan

How did you do that deceptive thing with the url you posted? And why?


136 posted on 05/07/2007 8:21:56 PM PDT by BykrBayb (May the way of the hero lead to the triforce! )
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To: veronica

I don’t know who he was loyal to.


137 posted on 05/07/2007 8:22:13 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl

jedward’s fine if it’s not too long to type :) or j


138 posted on 05/07/2007 8:25:21 PM PDT by jedward (Mission '08 - Take back the House & Senate. No Negotiations...No Prisoners.)
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To: calcowgirl

I don’t know who are loyal to.


139 posted on 05/07/2007 8:27:08 PM PDT by veronica
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Humor is good :) Mine of more of a sinical type (lol)


140 posted on 05/07/2007 8:28:43 PM PDT by jedward (Mission '08 - Take back the House & Senate. No Negotiations...No Prisoners.)
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To: calcowgirl

I don’t know who you are loyal to.


141 posted on 05/07/2007 8:28:49 PM PDT by veronica
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To: veronica
Americans living in Israel are not foreigners.

Last I looked, U.S. residence was required to legally vote.
I also believe there is a ban on contributions from foreign nationals, according to FEC rules.

Like I said--I'm against foreign meddling, no matter the foreigner.

142 posted on 05/07/2007 8:29:23 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: jedward

Your spelling of cynical is pretty funny. :)


143 posted on 05/07/2007 8:29:39 PM PDT by veronica
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To: jedward

Your spelling of cynical is pretty funny. :)


144 posted on 05/07/2007 8:29:39 PM PDT by veronica
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To: veronica
I don’t know who you are loyal to.

I think it is quite clear: The United States of America!

145 posted on 05/07/2007 8:30:59 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl

Americans living overseas are entitled to vote in American elections.


146 posted on 05/07/2007 8:31:14 PM PDT by veronica
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To: jedward

“To: stephenjohnbanker
Humor is good :) Mine of more of a sinical type (lol”

Oh, a bit of a demon, eh? : )


147 posted on 05/07/2007 8:31:19 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! Or Rudy/Hillary if you want to murder conservatism)
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To: calcowgirl

So you say.


148 posted on 05/07/2007 8:31:29 PM PDT by veronica
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To: veronica

You should see my spelling at around 2:30 in the morning. Bearly reedable :)


149 posted on 05/07/2007 8:32:24 PM PDT by jedward (Mission '08 - Take back the House & Senate. No Negotiations...No Prisoners.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

lol...total refusal to use spellcheck :) Cynical, I’ve got it now (LOL)


150 posted on 05/07/2007 8:33:30 PM PDT by jedward (Mission '08 - Take back the House & Senate. No Negotiations...No Prisoners.)
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