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Skinning Cats: Legal Means to Disarm the Second Amendment
Vanity | May 6, 2007 | Mark Edward Vande Pol

Posted on 05/06/2007 8:21:20 PM PDT by Carry_Okie

There are few things that keep me up at night, but this is one of them. It may be cynicism, but more likely it’s the long sad experience of watching the courts over the years. So when your side finally wins one that should have you celebrating, and yet you walk away with a knot in your gut, it’s probably warranted.

Senior Judge Laurence H. Silberman’s majority opinion in Parker v. District of Columbia was a thing of beauty, affirming armed self-defense as an individual right pre-existing the Constitution. It was almost hard to believe. Maybe that's what’s bugging me. Such wins are so few and far between that when you do finally see one, you’re left waiting for the other shoe to drop.

For decades this property rights activist has witnessed the slow destruction of small landowners’ means to make a living. News stories occasionally recount the outrage of property owners chased off their land by armed agents of the state. Game officials are now trained in riot control, wearing flak vests, and have little to no background in game management. Streams are fenced, preventing even wildlife from getting a drink. It’s spooky.

The principal means instituting these evils are scads of rulings from the Federal bench with virtually no bases in constitutional law, at least, so it appears at first. What’s less commonly known is that the people who wield that power actually operate on a powerful legal foundation based in statutes pursuant to treaty law, and therein lies the rub as far as gun owners are concerned, or should be.

Treaties are powerful. Nations are formed and surrender by treaties (the very existence of the United States is acknowledged by the Treaty of Paris). So given that the leftists have made such use of them in land control, perhaps it’s not such a stretch for gun rights people to give treaties and international law more thought.

We’ll start with the scope of their powers. The Constitution, Article VI, Clause 2 states:

“This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.”

Treaty law supersedes both Congressional statues and all state laws, which given the abuse of the Commerce and General Welfare clauses should be enough to give one cause for pause. The obvious saving caveat is the phrase, “under the Authority of the United States.” It should be fairly obvious that this phrase renders any treaty that involves powers not enumerated in the Constitution void. In other words, the government of the United States does not have the authority to agree to terms with any other nation, the enforcement of which would require powers that exceed its Constitutionally enumerated powers. So in theory at least, a citizen whose rights have been violated by an unconstitutional treaty should be able to sue and have the treaty thrown out.

It’s never happened. That’s a red flag. Perhaps we’ve never had such a treaty?

I’m going to rely in detail upon but one example in order to illustrate what an outrage this process has become: The Convention on Nature Protection and Wild Life Preservation in the Western Hemisphere. This treaty is so vague and open-ended that it must be read to be believed; its virtually unlimited scope is clearly beyond the powers granted to the Federal Government under the Constitution.

From the Preamble to the treaty:

"The Governments of the American Republics, wishing to protect and preserve in their natural habitat representatives of all species and genera of their native flora and fauna, including migratory birds, in sufficient numbers and over areas extensive enough to assure them from becoming extinct through any agency within man's control;"

“Any agency within man’s control,” is certainly a commitment that exceeds the Constitutional authority of the Federal government, but it gets worse. After going on at considerable length about wilderness areas and national parks, they come back with this language in Article V Section 1:

"The Contracting Governments agree to adopt, or to propose such adoption to their respective appropriate law-making bodies, suitable laws and regulations for the protection and preservation of flora and fauna within their national boundaries but not included in the national parks, national reserves, nature monuments, or strict wilderness reserves referred to in Article II hereof."

In other words, the treaty applies to every inch of lands and waters within the United States. It commits every dime of the American economy to preserve ALL species. Ratification of a treaty with this scope is a betrayal of American citizens and their land. It commits them to achieve the unachievable: demanding a complete halt in the process of natural selection. That was in 1941.

So, how did this little beastie get ratified? This is the part that should scare gun owners to no end.

I was writing a book on environmental policy that examined this history. I contacted a friend of mine in DC (FReeper sauropod) and asked him to do a little research for me at the Library of Congress. He pulled the entire file on this treaty. In his summary report to a distracted Senate, Executive Report No. 5, April 3 1941, Secretary of State Cordell Hull quite obviously had deliberately misrepresented its virtually unlimited scope. He didn’t say anything about land outside of parks and nature preserves.

There was no debate. There was no record of a committee vote. There was no record of a quorum. There was no recorded vote.

The problem is in the Constitution, Article II, Section 2, Clause 2:

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur;

“Senators present” not two-thirds of the full Senate. It’s the Constitution’s original Trojan Horse.

Hamilton’s Federalist #75 makes an attempt to paper-over the obvious contention over the means of ratification.

Though this provision has been assailed, on different grounds, with no small degree of vehemence, I scruple not to declare my firm persuasion, that it is one of the best digested and most unexceptionable parts of the plan.

“Best digested” by whom? Although it was a LONG time ago when I read Farrand's Records, I do not recall any extended discussion on the adoption of treaties. I researched the twentty-four references with the string "senators present" for this article, and the only discussion I found was about treaty adoption in general, not a significant discussion on the requirement of a supermajority. This was obvious spin on Hamilton's part.

Another source of objection is derived from the small number of persons by whom a treaty may be made. Of those who espouse this objection, a part are of opinion that the House of Representatives ought to have been associated in the business, while another part seem to think that nothing more was necessary than to have substituted two thirds of all the members of the Senate, to two thirds of the members present.

It was a serious issue, and Hamilton knew it. Later in the paper, he makes his real intentions obvious:

The remarks made in a former number, which have been alluded to in another part of this paper, will apply with conclusive force against the admission of the House of Representatives to a share in the formation of treaties. The fluctuating and, taking its future increase into the account, the multitudinous composition of that body, forbid us to expect in it those qualities which are essential to the proper execution of such a trust.

So according to Hamilton, the people’s representatives can’t be trusted to have a say in the commitments of the government at a level which supersedes all laws in the country. Great. Then why are they allowed to write the laws? Well, the means to circumscribe them is obvious.

Accurate and comprehensive knowledge of foreign politics; a steady and systematic adherence to the same views; a nice and uniform sensibility to national character; decision, secrecy (emphasis in the original!!!), and despatch, are incompatible with the genius of a body so variable and so numerous.

Mr. Hamilton wants the people’s representatives to be ignorant of the terms of a treaty drafted in secret and passed before they know it! What’s this “We the People,” stuff anyway!

The very complication of the business, by introducing a necessity of the concurrence of so many different bodies, would of itself afford a solid objection. The greater frequency of the calls upon the House of Representatives, and the greater length of time which it would often be necessary to keep them together when convened, to obtain their sanction in the progressive stages of a treaty, would be a source of so great inconvenience and expense as alone ought to condemn the project.

So not only does drafting, negotiating, and ratifying the supreme law of the land have to be completed before the people get wind of it, it has to be convenient! Treaties can take many years to negotiate, sometimes even decades. So to argue for expediency at that point is a bit silly.

Now, for the worst part.

The only objection which remains to be canvassed, is that which would substitute the proportion of two thirds of all the members composing the senatorial body, to that of two thirds of the members present. It has been shown, under the second head of our inquiries, that all provisions which require more than the majority of any body to its resolutions, have a direct tendency to embarrass the operations of the government, and an indirect one to subject the sense of the majority to that of the minority.

The whole point of requiring a supermajority of the Several States (at least that’s how it was before the 17th Amendment) to ratify changes to the supreme law of the land almost equivalent to the Constitution itself is a decision of that magnitude should have the approval of the whole people minus a tiny fraction of extremists, who should at least have the time to make their case.

If two thirds of the whole number of members had been required, it would, in many cases, from the non-attendance of a part, amount in practice to a necessity of unanimity. And the history of every political establishment in which this principle has prevailed, is a history of impotence, perplexity, and disorder.

And now he gets to the closer.

To require a fixed proportion of the whole body would not, in all probability, contribute to the advantages of a numerous agency, better then merely to require a proportion of the attending members. The former, by making a determinate number at all times requisite to a resolution, diminishes the motives to punctual attendance.

“Punctual attendance”? The lack of a quorum call for the ratification of the Convention on Nature Protection readily shows what a joke that can be. Senators can easily have motive not to be in attendance so as not to be held accountable for taking a stand. So, there you have the best case Hamilton could make and he belabored it ad nauseum. His point was effectively, ‘If we sneak one of these through in secret, with just a select group, and in a big hurry, it’s your fault.’

In the last days of the 106th Congress, the U.S. Senate ratified a package of 34 treaties almost without notice. They were ratified as a package. There was no debate. There was no recorded vote. Two of them have implications nearly as broad as the Convention on Nature Protection: the International Plant Protection Convention and the Convention on Desertification. Property rights groups, long used to this kind of perfidy were caught totally by surprise. When the deed was done and Jesse Helms was confronted, he looked at the activists and said that we had dropped our guard.

It was our fault.

Gun owners take note. Only last October, the UN submitted its DRAFT RESOLUTION ON INTERNATIONAL ARMS TRADE TREATY. We’re almost there: What the DC Circuit giveth, a Democrat President and a few goons in the Senate could taketh away with complicit “Republicans” hiding their heads in the sand by simply failing to show up.

This is a situation that may soon call for vigilance at a level at to which gun rights groups are unused, particularly if a Democrat is elected President. We now have a Democrat Senate capable of anything, no matter how outrageous, and Republican “moderates” easy to cow, particularly if the payoff is to NOT be in attendance. We no longer have a Jesse Helms to gum up the works and buy time. Like sentries on the battle line, this job cannot be trusted to any one man or group at a time. Like any battle against an opposing army, this battle has its enemy generals who should be watched and observed for every move. Like any battle with unknown foe, it will require a means of collecting intelligence. If I could put a wire on Chuck Schumer I would do it.

This little article was meant to alarm you, because alarm is in order. The DC Circuit ruling, while a cause for celebration doesn’t have us there yet. If we do win in the Supreme Court, don’t think for a second that the gun-grabbing thugs of the left will let the situation get away from them without a fight. The threat we face is unambiguous. The motives are obvious. The enemy is committed. If the Second Amendment is hosed by treaty, we won't get the chance to let it happen again.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2012; 2ndamendment; banglist; carryokie; congress; constitution; donttreadonme; editorial; elections; federalist; govtabuse; lping; molonlabe; secondamendment; shallnotbeinfringed; treaties; tyranny; un; unitednations; waronliberty; youwillnotdisarmus
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To: smokingfrog

BTTT


101 posted on 04/16/2009 10:58:57 PM PDT by I got the rope
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To: Carry_Okie

Bookmark!!


102 posted on 04/17/2009 8:09:42 AM PDT by antisocial (Texas SCV - Deo Vindice)
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To: Carry_Okie; harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; ...
Related article to my previous ping.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

103 posted on 10/27/2009 6:53:51 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: mamelukesabre
I’m scared spitless what the world will look like in 50 years.

Predator drones for surveilliance and instant intervention on those who don't comply within 10 years, maybe 5.

Who knows what 50 years will bring? I don't think I want to know.

104 posted on 10/27/2009 7:05:58 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (3%)
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To: OneWingedShark
The Brits were heading in to clean out the Armory. The Colonists objected to that.

We'd object just as strongly. Bank on it.

III

105 posted on 10/27/2009 7:57:42 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Dead Corpse

>The Brits were heading in to clean out the Armory. The Colonists objected to that.
>
>We’d object just as strongly. Bank on it.

No kidding. That’s why so many are stocking up on projectiles...


106 posted on 10/27/2009 8:11:25 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Carry_Okie
There are lots of ways for to skin a cat, this is but one of them.

There are lots of ways to start the next American Civil War, this is but one of them. In the push to disarm the American public, the pushback will be more than they bargained for. That's one of my lines in the sand.

107 posted on 10/27/2009 8:47:14 AM PDT by Noumenon (Work that AQT - turn ammunition into skill. No tyrant can maintain a 300 yard perimeter forever.)
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To: Dead Corpse

Three percent


108 posted on 10/27/2009 8:54:23 AM PDT by Noumenon (Work that AQT - turn ammunition into skill. No tyrant can maintain a 300 yard perimeter forever.)
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To: Noumenon
I know this sounds like spamming, but it is in fact the enthusiasm of the discoverer. Please consider the original disaster preparation and civilian military plan, misunderstood for 3,000 years, now revealed for the first time: Shemitta: For the Land Is Mine.

It is amazing.

109 posted on 10/27/2009 8:58:15 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (Grovelnator Schwarzenkaiser, fashionable fascism one charade at a time.)
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To: barb-tex
Lest we forget, the Battle of Lexington-Concord was over Gun Control.

Never forget that should history repeat itself in that region of the country the outcome would NOT be the same. Quite the reverse, in fact.

110 posted on 10/27/2009 9:08:15 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: El Gato
But blue helmets make such wonderful aim points.

Agreed, but as the days pass, those who would squeeze the triggers grow fewer in number. I think we may be toast. All I can say is that when they finally DO get my guns, they're going to be warmer than me!

111 posted on 10/27/2009 9:17:02 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: DLfromthedesert

To read later


112 posted on 10/27/2009 9:23:39 AM PDT by DLfromthedesert
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To: Noumenon

Yep...


113 posted on 10/27/2009 10:00:19 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Carry_Okie

This is a very interersting document. Will read and comment later. Looks like it might a good complement to Bethells and Chodorovs works. I’m trying to come up with a short and plain-English exposition of Man’s natural right to his life and to the fruits of his labors for the Constitutional Restoration site.

Now, that right there is enough to get me labelled as an enemy of the Obamunist State.


114 posted on 10/27/2009 10:15:53 AM PDT by Noumenon (Work that AQT - turn ammunition into skill. No tyrant can maintain a 300 yard perimeter forever.)
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To: Noumenon
I’m trying to come up with a short and plain-English exposition of Man’s natural right to his life and to the fruits of his labors for the Constitutional Restoration site.

You'll find its origins in one of the Hebrew roots of Genesis 1:28, "ur'du" (resh.dalet.vav), which is the same phoneme for your back "yard." It is sometimes translated as "have dominion" or "tread down" but it originates in the ancient concept of walking the land to establish it as private property. Thereafter there is a short list of the critters over which one is to exert control: birds, fish and bugs, which are all MOBILE and difficult to control. Hence the earlier use of the verb v'khivshuhah which is a word of struggle and conquest.

It's all discussed in Shemitta. If you want a review copy, please email me from the site.

115 posted on 10/27/2009 10:32:38 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (Grovelnator Schwarzenkaiser, fashionable fascism one charade at a time.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Will do - thanks!


116 posted on 10/27/2009 10:34:17 AM PDT by Noumenon (Work that AQT - turn ammunition into skill. No tyrant can maintain a 300 yard perimeter forever.)
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To: ExSoldier

I presume you’ve heard Walter Williams observation for when the word gets out that they’ve gotten his guns.


117 posted on 10/27/2009 10:38:07 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring
I confess that if it's the quote I just offered I think I swiped it from somebody here on FR. Probably Squantos or Joe Brower a long time ago. LOL
118 posted on 10/27/2009 11:39:06 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: Carry_Okie

I started thinking about writing a new draft of the Constitution after reading this. I’ll probably start on it some time soon and hash it out as I go along. Not to say it’ll be made up on the fly, but rewritten in today’s language, modified for the 21st century.


119 posted on 10/27/2009 11:45:44 AM PDT by wastedyears (Clyde Shelton is my hero.)
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To: wastedyears
Well, we certainly do need amendments. Did you see the other article on treaty law? I published it here yesterday. In it I proposes one amendment, and near the end of the thread there is discussion of another on the supremacy clause.

In general, I don't want to see a rewrite, not because it couldn't be better but because in the current crop of politicians it WOULDN'T be better.

120 posted on 10/27/2009 11:56:15 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (Grovelnator Schwarzenkaiser, fashionable fascism one charade at a time.)
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To: Carry_Okie
As folks around these parts ought to know by now, I am a great lover of our Constitution and a particular friend to the Bill of Rights. I appreciate the extent to which our Founders risked their "lives, fortunes and sacred honor" in order to ensure the blessings of Liberty to themselves and to succeeding generations.

In that spirit, I would like to ask a simple, if somewhat pointed question: If the Rights of Man come from our Creator and are truly "inalienable", how may they in any instance be made subservient to any International Treaty, no matter how arrived at and as affirmed by whatever number of our elected Representatives?

I anxiously await your response.

- Andy

121 posted on 10/27/2009 11:56:24 AM PDT by andy58-in-nh (America does not need to be organized: it needs to be liberated.)
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To: andy58-in-nh
If the Rights of Man come from our Creator and are truly "inalienable", how may they in any instance be made subservient to any International Treaty, no matter how arrived at and as affirmed by whatever number of our elected Representatives?

Right cannot be subservient, they can only be violated. The rights of men can be violated, but only if they become subservient.

122 posted on 10/27/2009 11:59:37 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (Grovelnator Schwarzenkaiser, fashionable fascism one charade at a time.)
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To: ExSoldier

I’ve never seen your particular phrasing before; Williams’ quote is the final sentence of this one:

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams052799.asp


123 posted on 10/27/2009 12:07:54 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Carry_Okie
Right cannot be subservient, they can only be violated. The rights of men can be violated, but only if they become subservient.

The word I ought to have used is "subordinated", in place of "subservient", which as you properly note is a characteristic more of beings than things. By "subordinated" then, I mean that our fundamental rights may be reduced in value and made secondary to a greater purpose or need. Can you think of any such purpose or need that would justify such a... violation?

124 posted on 10/27/2009 12:23:01 PM PDT by andy58-in-nh (America does not need to be organized: it needs to be liberated.)
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To: andy58-in-nh; Noumenon
Can you think of any such purpose or need that would justify such a... violation?

What I think you are asking is if a collective claim can be legitimately assessed against the individual, which cuts back to the consent of the governed.

Human means of violating individual rights necessarily derive of two types, democratic and oligarchic. The genius of the Constitution lay in setting aside certain individual rights beyond which the government could not exercise power in either interest. The problem with that idea is that individual claims by right necessarily conflict, requiring a judgment or ruling to determine how they are to be partitioned. It is at that point that the precedents for collective or oligarchic interests can be laid no matter how idealistic the process of adjudication.

So it is in that realm that rights end up violated, no matter what, simply because it is so easy to extend the scope of what can be claimed under a right by means of language at which point the issue among those doing so must be settled by third party. At that point, one has to question your question.

125 posted on 10/27/2009 12:52:00 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (Grovelnator Schwarzenkaiser, fashionable fascism one charade at a time.)
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To: Carry_Okie

2nd Amendment bump for later..........


126 posted on 10/27/2009 1:52:59 PM PDT by indthkr
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To: Carry_Okie

You ought ta write books Okie !.....:o)

Well written Sir !


127 posted on 10/27/2009 4:10:28 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Eagle Eye

Wow, this thread has lived a long time. That post of mine you responded to is two and a half years old.

Ever heard of “robocup”? It’s a world wide competition involving robots playing soccer. These are not remote controlled robots. These are fully autonomous robots searching out the soccer ball, aiming, kicking, passing, blocking, and scoring goals. They THINK FOR THEMSELVES!

check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJaOcv81QuQ

They are slow and clumsy, but they are actually functional. They fall down a lot but they usually get themselves back up and back in the game.


128 posted on 10/27/2009 4:24:55 PM PDT by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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To: Squantos
Hi Squantos,

This "Skinning Cats" thread is over a year old. Yesterday morning, I sent you a ping to Patrick Henry "Ratified". Did you see that?

You ought ta write books Okie !.....:o)

The web site is done. The production file is now available to reviewers. I'm waiting on the bank and I'll be able to set up the shopping cart.

129 posted on 10/28/2009 7:25:10 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (Grovelnator Schwarzenkaiser, fashionable fascism one charade at a time.)
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To: DuncanWaring
Thanks, I printed that for my students. It's a big help that he's black. My students will take HIM more seriously.
130 posted on 10/28/2009 12:24:53 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: ExSoldier

Heck, I thought everyone had seen that one! ;-)


131 posted on 10/28/2009 1:18:43 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: EdReform

bookmark


132 posted on 08/08/2011 8:14:23 AM PDT by EdReform (Oath Keepers - Guardians of the Republic - Honor your oath - Join us: www.oathkeepers.org)
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