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Milan hospital replaces crucifix with (statue of) Mary to please Muslims
Deutche Presse ^ | May 9, 2007

Posted on 05/09/2007 6:35:16 AM PDT by NYer

Milan - Milan's leading obstetric hospital was replacing its crucifixes with images of the Virgin Mary to avoid offending a growing number of Muslim patients, reports said Wednesday.

'Our wards have become multiethnic. We want to respect all religions and avoid any form of discrimination. That is why we have decided to replace the crucifix with the image of the Madonna, which is also appreciated by Muslim women,' daily La Repubblica quoted Mangiagalli's medical director, Basilio Tiso, as saying Wednesday.

Some 7,000 women give birth at the Mangiagalli each year. Of these, about 30 per cent are foreign immigrants, many of whom are not Catholic.

The head of Milan's Viale Jenner Islamic centre, Abdelhamid Shaari, welcomed the move, saying Mary was a figure that was also revered by Muslims.

'This is certainly a sign of respect for our religion that we greatly appreciate. But a white wall would have been even better. Italy is a secular state and children are angels in any religion,' Shaari told La Repubblica.

The representation of the cross on which Jesus died has become the subject of a heated debate in Italy in recent years as Muslim groups and non-Christians seek its removal from the walls of public buildings.

Although church and state are officially separated in Italy, a 1923 regulation issued during Benito Mussolini's Fascist rule and never repealed states that a symbol of the crucifix should hang in every classroom and courtroom in the country.

Officials at the Mangiagalli hospital plan to replace all crucifixes within the next few months. However, patients will still be able to have a crucifix hanging in their room if they ask for one.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: catholic; diversity; italy; muslim
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1 posted on 05/09/2007 6:35:20 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


2 posted on 05/09/2007 6:36:16 AM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


3 posted on 05/09/2007 6:36:55 AM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: NYer

Will the lase Christian leaving Europe please turn off the lights?
Thank you.


4 posted on 05/09/2007 6:37:16 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: NYer

Now, imagine you’re a Catholic in a hospital in Saudi Arabia. What would happen if you requested a crucifix be hung in your hospital room? Hmmmm?


5 posted on 05/09/2007 6:37:33 AM PDT by RexBeach (Americans never quit. -Douglas MacArthur)
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To: NYer

they should at least have one with her standing on a CRESCENT moon:

” A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. “ Rev 12:1”


6 posted on 05/09/2007 6:37:38 AM PDT by rogernz
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To: RexBeach

The saudis employ roving bands of beheaders for such a situation.


7 posted on 05/09/2007 6:38:48 AM PDT by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk)
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To: RexBeach

They’d probably take you outside to be hung and....

What?

Ohhh.

Never mind.

It wouldn’t be possible for you to be hung.

Your HEAD would be missing.


8 posted on 05/09/2007 6:39:24 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: RexBeach

“Now, imagine you’re a Catholic in a hospital in Saudi Arabia. What would happen if you requested a crucifix be hung in your hospital room? Hmmmm?”

Your severed head would be hung over your bed.


9 posted on 05/09/2007 6:39:47 AM PDT by AngieGOP (I never met a woman who became a stripper because she played with Barbie dolls as a kid.)
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To: rogernz

“This is certainly a sign of respect for a religion that we fear.” There I fixed it.


10 posted on 05/09/2007 6:40:01 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: NYer
growing number of Muslim patients...Some 7,000 women give birth at the Mangiagalli each year. Of these, about 30 per cent are foreign immigrants, many of whom are not Catholic.

And the beat goes on.

11 posted on 05/09/2007 6:40:09 AM PDT by Salvey (ancest)
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To: NYer

I guess people will stop kowtowing to those people when they lose their heads.


12 posted on 05/09/2007 6:41:25 AM PDT by Piquaboy (22 year veteran of the Army, Air Force and Navy, Pray for all our military .)
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To: massgopguy

im going to milan in a month...
maybe i should learn how to say my polemics in italian ;-)


13 posted on 05/09/2007 6:42:16 AM PDT by rogernz
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To: NYer

As they begin their march towards the acceptance of total Sharia law. Nurses, please cover up head-to-toe before entering the hospital please.


14 posted on 05/09/2007 6:42:31 AM PDT by mmichaels1970
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To: NYer

these faciabrute bellarob,nasubeep, islamic bastardo’s need to go back to the desert or else baddabing!


15 posted on 05/09/2007 6:43:13 AM PDT by Vaquero (time again for the Crusades.)
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To: NYer

You know, I bet its a fulfillment, in a way, of scripture, when Jesus Christ is the most despised figure in the world.

“The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil.” - Jesus


16 posted on 05/09/2007 6:43:36 AM PDT by I still care ("Remember... for it is the doom of men that they forget" - Merlin, from Excalibur)
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To: NYer

NO, NO, NO! This is insane. They come to us and want us to change for them. NO!

If they visit my house, do I have to take down a crucifix to not offend them? NO! If they don’t like it, tough. Go somewhere else.

If I go to their house will they take down things that I claim offend me? NO!


17 posted on 05/09/2007 6:43:55 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: NYer

What about Protestants?


18 posted on 05/09/2007 6:44:20 AM PDT by almcbean
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To: NYer
If I chose to go to a Catholic hospital I would expect that I would see a crucifix on the wall.

If I was offended by seeing a crucifix, then maybe I should choose another hospital.

If there wasn't another hospital around, then I would just have to put up with seeing the crucifix.

It isn't rocket science.

19 posted on 05/09/2007 6:44:40 AM PDT by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: RexBeach

They’d hang you with a smile.


20 posted on 05/09/2007 6:45:24 AM PDT by wastedyears (To a liberal, "feeling safe" is far more important than "being safe" Credit to TruthShallSetYouFree)
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To: NYer

Seems like Oriana Fallaci’s cicadas are still crawling out in Italy to make their lovely music.

The definition of irony: how extremist Islam and Shariah in Europe are being midwifed into birth by smug and self-satisfied modern atheists who are too foolish to see their own impending demise.


21 posted on 05/09/2007 6:47:24 AM PDT by Marechal (In Ulcisci, Fidelitas)
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To: NYer

Submitting to the religion that believes Jesus existed and was holy but denies His divinity, His death. amd His resurrection is to deny Jesus.

Why bow to the antiChrist’s “religion”? It leads the faithful astray and has them kill in the name of a warlord.


22 posted on 05/09/2007 6:48:33 AM PDT by weegee (Libs want us to learn to live with terrorism, but if a gun is used they want to rewrite the Const.)
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To: RexBeach

You would be hung before the crucifix?


23 posted on 05/09/2007 6:50:01 AM PDT by Long Island Pete
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To: mmichaels1970

Well before 9-11 a nurse I know in Houston told me she was instructed not to look at muslim men in the eye when they visit the hospital.


24 posted on 05/09/2007 6:50:29 AM PDT by weegee (Libs want us to learn to live with terrorism, but if a gun is used they want to rewrite the Const.)
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To: NYer

Well, instead of removing the cross, set up next to it the Star of David for Jews, a Cow for Hindus;, Prayers beads for Buddhists, and a Bloody Sword for Muslims.


25 posted on 05/09/2007 6:51:14 AM PDT by theDentist (Qwerty ergo typo : I type, therefore I misspelll.)
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To: Tokra

yes,
but its not about that. they want christians to leave ‘their’ country...


26 posted on 05/09/2007 6:51:45 AM PDT by rogernz
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To: NYer
...AND THAT DRESS YOU'VE GOT MARY IN...you really need to get Armani to work on THat too!

sheeeesh....COME ON ITALY

27 posted on 05/09/2007 6:53:10 AM PDT by NordP (The greatest gift God can give us is LIFE. The greatest gift man can give to another is FREEDOM.)
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To: NYer
I know this story is about Italy. And I know that the USA is a republic and not a democracy. But I just want to say that the extremists who seem to like democracy, and who favor majority rule, also seem to be the same folks who say "30% of the people might be offended, so the other 70% are going to have to change their ways."

The folks who like democracy actually don't.

28 posted on 05/09/2007 6:54:12 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Enoch Powell was right.)
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To: NYer

Well, guees what, they are also offended by the fact that all of Spain is not mohammedan, so just save some time and convert now. It’s where you and the rest of Europe are headed anyway.


29 posted on 05/09/2007 6:58:21 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Duncan Hunter in 2008!)
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To: rogernz

What dialect? My Mother’s Calabraise cannot be understood in Milan.


30 posted on 05/09/2007 6:59:35 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Bigg Red

Spain = Italy. Duh!


31 posted on 05/09/2007 7:00:02 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Duncan Hunter in 2008!)
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To: rogernz

I believe that the woman pictured in that verse is Israel.


32 posted on 05/09/2007 7:03:01 AM PDT by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
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To: NYer
Muslims have a problem with the Cross because it is through the Cross that we are saved.

Islam is an anti-Christian religion.

33 posted on 05/09/2007 7:06:11 AM PDT by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
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To: NYer
This constant giving in to these unappeasables makes me sick. Just once I’d like to hear.. “This is a predominately Catholic country and and if you don’t like it go back where you came from!”
34 posted on 05/09/2007 7:07:25 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: Bosco

catholic theology takes it as being mary. you see it in much of the artwork; mary stand on the moon with a crown of 12 stars. Even the EU flag is based on the crown of Mary - 12 gold stars. (the only reference to christianity in the EU, thanks to a good ole catholic monarchist Otto von Hapsburg)

“She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. 5 Her child was caught up to God and his throne. “ rev. 12:5


35 posted on 05/09/2007 7:08:32 AM PDT by rogernz
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To: AmericaUnited

then pray burlesconi gets elected since he said last year he wants italy to be catholic and for italians


36 posted on 05/09/2007 7:09:37 AM PDT by rogernz
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To: NYer
Maybe one day they'll figure out that respecting the faith of others does not mean abandoning your own.

It is a Catholic hospital. As such, it represents a means of evangelization and outreach towards those whom it treats. There should be no obnoxious, "in your face" proselytization towards those of other faiths whom it holds captive due to illness, so to speak, but at the same time, the Catholic character of the hospital should be there and on display for all to see and experience. From the care and behavior of the staff to the visible symbols of the Catholic faith which adorn it.

Nobody is obligated to use a Catholic hospital so there is no need to apologize for being Catholic.

37 posted on 05/09/2007 7:10:29 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: RexBeach
Now, imagine you’re a Catholic in a hospital in Saudi Arabia. What would happen if you requested a crucifix be hung in your hospital room? Hmmmm?

Great point.

38 posted on 05/09/2007 7:17:38 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: NYer
That is why we have decided to replace the crucifix with the image of the Madonna, which is also appreciated by Muslim women,

Huh? What significance does Mary have to Islam? I thought Catholic reverence for Mary was why the Moozies consider them polytheists.

39 posted on 05/09/2007 7:19:05 AM PDT by lesser_satan (FRED THOMPSON '08)
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To: NYer

They’re kidding right?

Well... good enough for the kaaba... /s


40 posted on 05/09/2007 7:19:49 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray for Tony Snow, Liz Edwards, cancer patients, their families and support.)
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To: rogernz
Even the EU flag is based on the crown of Mary - 12 gold stars.

Found this on Wikipedia, for what it's worth.

The flag was originally adopted by the Council of Europe on December 8, 1955, from one of many designs attributed to Arsène Heitz[1]. On 25 October 1955 the Parliamentary Assembly made the unanimous decision to adopt a circle of gold stars on a blue background as an emblem. On 8 December 1955 the Committee of Ministers adopted this as the European flag. "Against the blue sky of the Western world, the stars represent the peoples of Europe in a circle, a symbol of unity. Their number shall be invariably set at twelve, the symbol of completeness and perfection...

[So far so good.]

...just like the twelve signs of the zodiac represent the whole universe,

[Ruh-roh.]

...the twelve gold stars stand for all peoples of Europe – including those who cannot as yet take part in building up Europe in unity and peace."


41 posted on 05/09/2007 7:24:24 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: weegee
Well before 9-11 a nurse I know in Houston told me she was instructed not to look at muslim men in the eye when they visit the hospital.

I'd look with a direct, unblinking gaze. And while I was at it, I'd watch every move with all the attentiveness of a starving hawk contemplating a mouse.

But that's just me.

42 posted on 05/09/2007 7:25:17 AM PDT by null and void (The truth. It is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with great caution.)
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To: AliVeritas

So if I said that a hijab clad muslim woman is offensive to me because it reminds me of the intolerance in sharia of other religions, women, etc., she would be forced to remove said hijab?


43 posted on 05/09/2007 7:25:44 AM PDT by milford421 (U.N. OUT OF U.S.)
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To: weegee

And that’s why I do look them in the eye every chance I get. Yes, I even stare.


44 posted on 05/09/2007 7:25:46 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray for Tony Snow, Liz Edwards, cancer patients, their families and support.)
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To: NYer

This is absolutely ridiculous. I am so fed up with political correctness gone amok. A Catholic hospital has a right to put up anything it wants to, regardless of who the patients are. The crucifix represents the core of Catholic beliefs.


45 posted on 05/09/2007 7:26:04 AM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: RexBeach

“Now, imagine you’re a Catholic in a hospital in Saudi Arabia. What would happen if you requested a crucifix be hung in your hospital room? Hmmmm?”

You would not leave the hospital alive, that’s for sure.


46 posted on 05/09/2007 7:26:19 AM PDT by tob2 ( "I may not be perfect but I'm always me." Anon.)
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To: NYer
" .. replacing its crucifixes with images of the Virgin Mary to avoid offending a growing number of Muslim patients .. "

Well, if that ain't the definition of anti-Christ .. there's no hope.

Not the Mary statues, but the removal of God, HIMself.

How long, O Lord ?

47 posted on 05/09/2007 7:29:08 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
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To: Bosco

So what’s Israel giving birth to (the male child), the New Jerusalem?

You can answer me via fmail, can’t hijack the thread.


48 posted on 05/09/2007 7:31:46 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray for Tony Snow, Liz Edwards, cancer patients, their families and support.)
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To: knarf

Even more interesting, wouldn’t they find it idolatry?

That’s what the imams and mullahs teach, regardless of Momo smashing all the idols in the kaaba except Mary and Jesus.


49 posted on 05/09/2007 7:33:50 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray for Tony Snow, Liz Edwards, cancer patients, their families and support.)
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To: lesser_satan
Huh? What significance does Mary have to Islam?

She's referred to positively in the Koran. The Virgin Mary in the Koran.

Bishop Sheen believed that the Mohammedans would be converted to Christianity through Mary.

Bishop Sheen wrote: “In the Koran, the Virgin Mary is mentioned thirty times. It believes in Her Immaculate Conception, and also, in Her Virgin Birth. It has also verses on the Annunciation, Visitation, and Nativity. Angels are pictured as accompanying the Blessed Mother and saying: ‘Oh, Mary, God has chosen you and purified you, and elected you above all the women of the earth.’ Mary, then, is for the Moslems the true Sayyida, or Lady. The only possible serious rival to her in their creed would be Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed himself. But after the death of Fatima, Mohammed wrote: ‘Thou shalt be the most blessed of all the women in Paradise, after Mary.’ In a variant of the text, Fatima is made to say, ‘I surpass all the women, except Mary.’

“This brings us to our second point: namely, why the Blessed Mother, in the 20th century should have revealed Herself in the significant little village of Fatima, Portugal, so that to all future generations she would be known as ‘Our Lady of Fatima.’ Since nothing ever happens out of Heaven except with a finesse of all details, I believe that the Blessed Virgin chose to be known as ‘Our Lady of Fatima’ as a pledge and a sign of hope to the Moslem people, and as an assurance that they, who show her so much respect, will one day accept her divine Son too. . . I believe the Blessed Virgin chose to be known by the name Fatima because she also came for the conversion of Islam, without which there cannot be an era of peace for mankind.


50 posted on 05/09/2007 7:33:58 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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